Hi Everyone:
My Dad gave me an old Penn 114H with stainless spool and 2.8:1 gear ratio.
This reel has never been used. My Dad spooled it up with 450yds of 50lb mono and stuck it in a drawer.
This is an older model with red side plates and stainless posts. It is very heavy.
I'm building a 60lb-80lb class trolling rod (Calstar BT6460XH). I fish out of San Diego (local and offshore).
I'm considering putting some money into the reel (i.e. Tiburon frame, aluminum spool, etc.) to use for this rod. As the reel is now, it is far too heavy and frankly looks a bit big for the blank.
I've seen some T60 frames for sale but haven't had any luck locating an aluminum spool or any gear upgrades either, so I don't know how difficult or expensive this would be.
So, I'm asking...would the 114H reel be appropriate for this rod, assuming I did the upgrades?
If so, would it be worth it do to do the upgrades?
Thanks in advance.
G'day DN,
The 114H would be well worth upgrading, particularly as it's a 'Special' (ie red/maroon side plates).
Alan's got some great Tiburon frames here: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1524.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1524.0)
The T60NK kit is a nice bit of gear.
QuoteT60 Topless Frame for Penn 114, 114H, 114HL (6/0) $85
T60NK Topless Narrow Frame and Spool Kit for Penn 114, 114H, 114HL (6/0) $200
Then a Kolekar handle upgrade (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=158.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=158.0)), stainless gear sleeve, greased carbontex, stainless yoke (http://smoothdrag.com/price.html (http://smoothdrag.com/price.html)) etc etc... ;D
Good luck!
Justin
Hello DN, welcome aboard!
Justin pretty much covered it all, I just hope that he didn't scare you ;D. As far as is it worth it, to me yes but it's not going to be cheap, the upgrades could set you back over $300 :-\. In your case, it would probably be a good thing, I'm sure that your reel has some sentimental value to you. Carbon fiber washers is a good call, the stock gear sleeve on this reels is already beefed up, you would probably get away with it, the gears....If you're thinking of upgrading to a higher gear ratio, I don't believe that you will be able to find them, I've been looking for a while with no luck. Check with Alan, as Justin recommended, I'm sure that he can help you out. Take care and good luck. Sal
Much of the weight is due to is chromed brass cast spool. You'll need to get an aluminum spool to significantly reduce the weight; the Tiburon frames actually weigh a little more than the posts you already have. Adding a handle, frame and spool would cost quite a bit. Too much in my opinion
Akfish is right, but you also need to consider the type of fishing that you'll be doing. You wouldn't want to troll wire line with an aluminum spool....it would shred it to pieces.
honestly, i'd call charkbait and order up a makaira 20 two speed and have them string it up with straight 100# spectra straight to the top. respool your dad's old reel with straight 60# mono, grease the drags and call it done. the rod is way too much for a 6/0 senator.
Hi Everyone:
Thank you for your responses.
@Alto and Redsetta:
I was considering the T60NK, but again wasn't sure the end result would be worth the money and effort. I must admit the though of putting $300+ into an older technology is not appealing to me.
I was hoping someone would indicate if the rod/reel combo was appropriate as well. From Alan's response, it sound like, he at least, doesn't not think so.
@Alan: I'm definately thinking along the lines of your advice on the Makaira 20.
Forgive the follow-ups...
I'm a little confused by your statement "the rod is way too much for a 6/0 senator". The blank I have (Calstar BT6460XH) is a 6', E-Glass, X-Fast taper, rated at 40-100.
* Are you saying the reel is too "small/weak" for a rod of this class or that the rod itself is to "small/weak" for the reel?
* Am I correct in assuming the Makaira is appropriate as I intend to use this rod mainly as a trolling rig?
* Finally, regarding your advice to rig the Makaira with 100# spectra...I'm just making the transition from momo to braid lines...I've been told that they have zero stretch. It is appropriate to use spectra for a trolling rig?
Thanks again to everyone for helping me.
-Dan-
That's all good advice - seems like you're on the right track now Dan.
AK, Sal and Alan are spot on, of course.
Being on the other side of the world, pricing is a little different.
A Makaira 10 in NZ retails for over $600, while in the US it appears to be around $450.
The 20 is $1000 in NZ and less than $500 in the US.
Even taking account of the exchange rate, the cost difference is substantial (making an old Penn upgrade a viable option in some instances).
Sounds like you'll have a cracker rig once it's all put together.
Re: Spectra - it's fine for trolling, though I always use a top shot/shock leader of flouro/mono (which will also save your hands when you've got the fish at the boat).
All the best, Justin
Quote from: redsetta on September 11, 2011, 10:46:54 PM
Re: Spectra - it's fine for trolling, though I always use a top shot/shock leader of flouro/mono (which will also save your hands when you've got the fish at the boat).
All the best, Justin
Dan: This is the best advice. Justin is right on. As you stated correctly there is zero stretch in braided line. In my experience trolling braid without something to take the shock of a big hit caused too many break-offs. Of course you can keep a light drag at strike and ramp up the drag, but that doesn't always work. Dominick
$300 upgrade on an old reel.cmon guys get real.leave it as it is and get youself a modern reel.if you just want it to look good give it a clean.worth upgrading NO
You're right Wallace.
If the budget allows, a Makaira 8 II (or similar) would be a lovely bit of gear.
Most new reels (the ones I'd want, anyway) are beyond my budget, so I did the (T4NK) Tiburon/Kolekar upgrade for $183.
The S/S yoke was $4.
I'm really happy with the result, but agree that it's no Talica/Makaira etc...
Hi Everyone:
Thanks again to all that responded.
Based on the responses, I believe I'll take the advice on the Makaira 20.
That being the case, final follow-up question.
As it is...what woudl you say the 114H stock out-of-box (stainless spool, posts, std. drag, etc.) is "intended" for?
What I mean is, at the time it was generally sold and considered modern technology, was it primarily a trolling reel, or a rock-cod reel?
Thanks again to all.
-Dan-
Here's a link to MysticParts and what Penn advertised the 114H for:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/ReelSpecs/Penn114H.aspx#specs (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/ReelSpecs/Penn114H.aspx#specs)
I like mine and use it for deep-water rock-codding or trolling. 80# Spectra over 80# mono. Not super fast but it works.
I've never seen a stainless spool on a Senator out-of-the-box. Your spool has a 99.99% chance of being nickel-plated brass. If the brass had been polished better the nickel plating wouldn't look so much like stainless steel.
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Dan, I also like mine as Rob does. I have a few, some with the narrow kits, some are the anniversary series with the red spool and some are like the one you have. These are considered light trolling reels, but don't underestimate them, you could push these reels to around 25lb of drag with no problems. I'm going to recommend tha you replace the drags, kit # 6-114 HSP this is a complete kit with carbon washers and metal washers for around $15, you could get the kit from penn parts.com, or check with Dawn at smooth drag.com. A Tiburon frame is also a good investment, and that's about all that the reel would need. If you did want to invest on a Tiburon frame, just google: tiburon fishing reels, they have some new frames that don't require the inner rings when installed, they look sweet, or check with Alan, I think he has some. Invest about $100 with those upgrades and that reel will be your friend for the rest of your life. Good luck with whatever you decide. Sal
Dan,
As you can tell from some of the guys' comments, there are several of us here who would spend the money upgrading the frame and spool of your 6/0 reel, and I'm one of them. Then you have others who recommend a new Makaira 20.
Let's look at this from another perspective. What are you fishing for, and, how often do you fish? If you are fishing for school albacore out of San Diego, a heavy trolling rig (often a 6/0 or equivalent) is mainly used to attract albacore to the boat, then most of the fish are caught with a lighter live-bait rig.
Depending on what type of fishing you do, you might want to spend your money to add a nice 25-30lb rig, or upgrade your existing one. This would also satisfy most bottom fishing chores.
I think the Makaira 20 would be a great reel for the bigger stuff found at Alijos Rocks and further south, but it may not used enough, and too expensive to get your money's worth closer to home. But then, I'm sure most of us have spent too much money on reels that we didn't have a need for. LOL
Just my 2 cents worth,
George
Good comment George.... except for the last part. I would say I'm sure that WE ALL spent too much money on reels that we didn't have a need for. ;D. But it makes us happy.
Forget the modern technology... put that 114H on steroids... at least you get a work out at the same time so you can cancel your gym membership ;D
I, like many others here are big fans of the tried and true Senators... cause they've never let us down, parts are easy to get, and you can work on them any where. First, I would put in some greased carbon drags, then I would do a trip with the 114h and see how she does, and you can take it from there. If money isn't an issue then buy a Makaira or similar reel.
Best of luck,
Dom
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 13, 2011, 11:07:29 AM
I would say I'm sure that WE ALL spent too much money on reels that we didn't have a need for. ;D.
That is what I wanted to say, but was reluctant to because of pc (political correctness). I went overboard on the pc (no pun intended).
Quote from: broadway on September 13, 2011, 02:27:16 PM
Forget the modern technology... put that 114H on steroids... at least you get a work out at the same time so you can cancel your gym membership ;D
I, like many others here are big fans of the tried and true Senators... cause they've never let us down, parts are easy to get, and you can work on them any where. First, I would put in some greased carbon drags, then I would do a trip with the 114h and see how she does, and you can take it from there. If money isn't an issue then buy a Makaira or similar reel.
Best of luck,
Dom
Good advice!
quote,by dn120721"the thought of putting $300+into an older technology is not applealing to me"end of quote.
is that appealing to anybody?
$20 upgrade, go for it by all means
Hi Everyone:
As before, I really appreciate the responses.
So, I guess what I'm left with is a consensus that new greased carbon drags are an inexpensive way to significantly improve on this reel.
I agree with the "virtually indistructable / easy to get parts" sentiment about the senator line. I'm definately not a fan of the weight and would very much like to swap out the brass spool for an aluminum one.
Which lends itself to getting the Tiburon frame, narrow spool, etc. (This is what my wife calls my endless justification spiral).
Seriously, the one response, however, that still concerns me alantani's statement about the BT6460XH being, "way too much rod for a 6/0 senator".
My intention was to wrap the BT6460XH as an 80lb class trolling setup for when I go out on 1 or 2 day trips out of San Diego.
So, if not the 114H (and since this is just for trolling)...recommendation reel for this stick?
-Dan-
Dan, Scott's at mysticparts.com has the aluminum spool in stock for $52.70, part # 29L-114HL.
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Thanks Alto:
Just ordered the spool.
Same question as before....anyone have a suggestion for an appropriate TROLLING Reel for the BT6460XH stick?
Thanks
-Dan-
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 13, 2011, 12:49:40 AM
Dan, I also like mine as Rob does. I have a few, some with the narrow kits, some are the anniversary series with the red spool and some are like the one you have. Sal
Sal: What can you tell me about the red spool? I just rebuilt a 114H for a friend and it had the red spool. I didn't think anything of it until your post quote above. I just thought I had spilled some zin on it when I wasn't looking ;D. Dominick
Not trying to hijack the thread but, had a question that is in-line with the current topic. Will the full aluminum frame (penn) that I have on 114 work on a 114h?
Quote from: Pescachaser on September 14, 2011, 05:40:50 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 13, 2011, 12:49:40 AM
Dan, I also like mine as Rob does. I have a few, some with the narrow kits, some are the anniversary series with the red spool and some are like the one you have. Sal
Sal: What can you tell me about the red spool? I just rebuilt a 114H for a friend and it had the red spool. I didn't think anything of it until your post quote above. I just thought I had spilled some zin on it when I wasn't looking ;D. Dominick
Well, good thing he is a friend ;D. The red spool is an anodized aluminum spool just like the black, the red was introduced for their 50th anniversary. If your friend reel looks like this one, then he has the 50th anniversary edition. Note the Chromed-plated spacer bars, this is one of my favorite reels. Sal
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture1516.jpg)
Quote from: Tidetime on September 14, 2011, 06:56:39 PM
Not trying to hijack the thread but, had a question that is in-line with the current topic. Will the full aluminum frame (penn) that I have on 114 work on a 114h?
Yes!
Sal: Thanks. That's it. I replaced the drags and the pitted frame bars. It looks brand new. Dominick
It's a shame that those Chromed-plated spacer bars did't hold up to saltwater, that's why they didn't last long. Penn later introduced the black anodized aluminum bars, I think that they're still available today, but they don't look as sweet as the Chromed ones.
That's one great-looking reel Sal!
Your collection is a source of constant amazement... ;D ;D
Cheers for sharing.
i've enjoyed this thread the most! so here's my take. is this reel worth all of the upgrades? um, no, but then is anything that we do worth the cost? would i enjoy fishing with a reel like this? absolutely. would i prefer a more modern reel? sure, but a hotrodded 114h would be a hoot to fish with. want something even more fun? i think i still have a few narrow frame and spool kits for the 114hl ........ ;D
Alan, or anyone else that wants to chime in here,
I don't think we've fully answered one of Dan's questions. I know you said the Calstar BT6460XH is too heavy for the Penn 6/0, but is it at least do-able with #80 mono? Or is the rod/reel combo just totally unsuitable? I'm not familiar with the rod.
George
Hi George:
Thank you, I was hoping someone would address my other question.
If it helps, the Calstar BT6460XH is an E-Glass, X-Fast taper blank rated at 40-100lbs.
My intention was to use it with the Penn 114H for trolling 80lb mono.
Based on the previous recommendations, I've ordered an aluminum spool and am strongly considering a tiburon frame and carbon drags.
That being said, my knowledge of reels and rod classes is limited and I'd like to know if the rig I'm proposing is missmatched.
Thanks
-Dan-
Dan,
I like Penn reels and that's the only brand of salt water reel I have, so I'm somewhat biased. For me, old-school is cool! However I don't have the vast experience that some of the other members have. That said, before you spend the extra money on a Tiburon frame, try fishing with it as-is. These reels have been hauling in big fish since before most of us were born, so the stock frame is adequate. By all means, make sure you have the 1+5 carbon fiber drags and lube them with Cals grease-big difference. That is the inexpensive route. Then, after a trip or two, if you can't live without the Tiburon frame, go ahead and upgrade it. Otherwise, you may end up with a reel you may not like and not get your money's worth.
About the rod. If it was mine, I would use that rod with the 114H. It may be a little too stiff and overkill, but I think it will be satisfactory. I've used Penn 6/0 and Daiwa 600 reels paired with Daiwa VIP655XH rods and they were more than satisfactory for the school sized albacore and tuna we caught out of San Diego. I imagine your rod is similar to those.
Now, if I'm wrong about the rod, I'm sure someone will chime in here. I definitely respect the other members opinions.
George
Thanks very much George.
Will do.
Hi,Guy's me again 8). Have to chime in on this one.I've been useing Penn Reels all my life :) from small to very large :D inshore to offshore.I've caught everything from small sardines(bait) to giant tuna and marlin :D all on OLD SCHOOL Penn Reels ;) (their weakest point-leather drags :( ) But now with the new tech CARBON DRAGS and GREASE we have unleashed a new animal >:( a reel that can handle just about anything we throw at it.Alloy frames are great(extra insurance ;D) alloy spools(great for the caster :D )But remenber we have been doing this forever ;D with factory out of the box reels ;) I'm not trying to take anything away from these manufactures and I apprecite every thing they have done :) for us, but the bottom line is gave me the chance to make a good product great I'm going to take it :D Upgrade ??? Yes,to a point.The fish don't know, or care if you use a colored alloy frame or not.Use the biggest reel you can handle,don't overtax the blank,if it feels right and looks right ::) than its right. You don't need a big budget to catch quality fish :D ( 80 is not needed for a 6/0 ::) use 60 if your trolling(breaks at 85 :P) smaller diam. more yardage :D.Without lever drags,Braid or all this new tech. :P.We are on our own,Us against our qurrey :D Have caught Swordfish to 400 lbs. w/a 6/0 loaded w 60.Tell you what if you don't think that that your 114 is worth upgrading don't touch it and e-mail with a price.I'll put it to good use ::)
Hi blktwr2660:
I too am a fan of Penn Reels and "old school". My first reel was a Jigmaster Jr. that I bought at a swap meet for $20, and I still have it. >:(
I've been fully convinced to keep the 114 and to do some modest upgrades. Truthfully, the aluminum spool is just because I'm not a fan of the heavy brass.
Thanks for the offer to buy, but I think I'll keep it for now. I will, however, have a heavy brass 114 spool available in about a week or so. ;)
Cheers,
-Dan-
Well, good thing he is a friend ;D. The red spool is an anodized aluminum spool just like the black, the red was introduced for their 50th anniversary. If your friend reel looks like this one, then he has the 50th anniversary edition. Note the Chromed-plated spacer bars, this is one of my favorite reels. Sal
Did all the 50th anniversary 114HL models have these Chromed spacer bars?? Was the red spool on later models as well??
Great thread btw :)
Only for a couple of years, SeaDawg. Penn then switched to the black spacer bars, I believe that they realized that the chromed bars didn't hold up. So, if you or anyone else have any, send them my way ;D. To me, the 114HL with the chromed spacers is one of the best looking reel that Penn ever came out with.