Reel Repair by Alan Tani

General Maintenance Tips => General Questions and Trouble Shooting => Topic started by: RamseyReelRepair on January 30, 2019, 01:57:46 AM

Title: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: RamseyReelRepair on January 30, 2019, 01:57:46 AM
Hey guys I'm driving myself crazy here and hope some new eyes will help. I can't find any problems with the parts but maybe it's how I'm assembling. Whenever it goes together it is very hard to reel no matter what the drag is set to. This is the problem it was given to me to fix. I realize I have not greased it yet. Please help! Here are a few pictures.
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: redsetta on January 30, 2019, 02:52:35 AM
Hi Ramsey,
Does the handle turn freely when the side plate is fully assembled, but not mounted to the frame?
If so, does the handle become hard to turn once mounted to the frame and spool?
Justin
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: RamseyReelRepair on January 30, 2019, 03:26:15 AM
Quote from: redsetta on January 30, 2019, 02:52:35 AM
Hi Ramsey,
Does the handle turn freely when the side plate is fully assembled, but not mounted to the frame?
If so, does the handle become hard to turn once mounted to the frame and spool?
Justin

It does become harder when mounted to the frame. Though it noticably gets harder when putting the cover on it too.

West
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: foakes on January 30, 2019, 03:40:07 AM
Take out the LW mechanism (worm, pawl, etc) see if it still cranks hard.  If not — you have narrowed it down to the LW.

If it still cranks hard — then it can be something bent in the brakes, wrong part upside down, or the frame tweaked.

Leave a side plate off and crank it — or just loosen some screws and see if it frees up somewhat.

Process of elimination.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: RamseyReelRepair on January 30, 2019, 06:55:36 PM
Great thanks Fred I'll give it a shot and let you know what happens

West
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: chockpish on January 30, 2019, 11:01:08 PM
I had a similar problem with my newer c3! Turns out the brake pads were in the out position and were getting stuck between the frame and side plate! It took me a few tries to figure out what was wrong, it was doing exactly what you described! Just push the brake blocks in and it fixed the problem! Maybe the same problem as yours! Hope this helps!

Best Mike!
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: festus on January 30, 2019, 11:57:34 PM
Quote from: chockpish on January 30, 2019, 11:01:08 PM
Just push the brake blocks in and it fixed the problem! Maybe the same problem as yours! Hope this helps!

Best Mike!
Yes, could be.
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: oc1 on January 31, 2019, 08:28:51 AM
Been there.  You may have bent the little metal arm or put a burr on the plastic brake block now so check those to make sure they will run smoothly in the race.

-steve
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: RamseyReelRepair on January 31, 2019, 02:12:02 PM
Let me clarify too that it isn't just a little hard to turn it is borderline frozen.

West
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: Keta on January 31, 2019, 02:17:29 PM
Pinching the plastic buttons can do that.   I've had many ABU's apart and still forget to push them to the center when putting the reel back together once in a while.
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: RamseyReelRepair on February 01, 2019, 01:55:46 AM
Ok so it is at this point that it gets hard to reel. I have the cover on but I haven't even got it on the frame and the star is still not on it.

west
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: Reel 224 on February 01, 2019, 03:44:31 AM
West: I haven't worked on a Abu yet, but that stack looks a bit tall to me. It could the Bevel washers could be in the wrong sequence. )() Like that.
I would try ))(.

Joe
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: exp2000 on February 01, 2019, 04:13:28 AM
Is that drag stack standard?

I ask because it looks to have woven carbon fiber washers on what appears to be an old model.

Perhaps these have elevated the drag stack to the point where it is fouling on the side cover?

Does the stack appear to be elevated above the side-cover support posts?

Try removing some washers and re-attaching the side-cover to see if it makes any difference.

If so, you will have to rebuild the drag stack with thinner washers.
~
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: RamseyReelRepair on February 01, 2019, 04:19:18 AM
I have actually wondered if the bevel washer is to aggressive. It looks take than what's on the schematic. I wonder if maybe someone replaced it at some time. I'll check the washers out too thanks.

West
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: Keta on February 01, 2019, 04:31:16 AM
What are the numbers on the reel foot?
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: RamseyReelRepair on February 01, 2019, 05:09:17 AM
Quote from: Keta on February 01, 2019, 04:31:16 AM
What are the numbers on the reel foot?

990403
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: Robert Janssen on February 01, 2019, 06:34:44 AM
It appears as though you are missing a couple of washers, that go on either side of the ball bearing. They are quite small and make contact with only the inner race of the bearing.
The way you have it in the pics, the bearing is being squeezed by the spring washers, star and frame, essentially preventing it from rotating freely.
Everything else looks fine.

.
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: foakes on February 01, 2019, 06:54:31 AM
Quote from: Robert Janssen on February 01, 2019, 06:34:44 AM
It appears as though you are missing a couple of washers, that go on either side of the ball bearing. They are quite small and make contact with only the inner race of the bearing.
The way you have it in the pics, the bearing is being squeezed by the spring washers, star and frame, essentially preventing it from rotating freely.
Everything else looks fine.

Yes, that makes sense, Robert!

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: RamseyReelRepair on February 01, 2019, 03:08:37 PM
Quote from: Robert Janssen on February 01, 2019, 06:34:44 AM
It appears as though you are missing a couple of washers, that go on either side of the ball bearing. They are quite small and make contact with only the inner race of the bearing.
The way you have it in the pics, the bearing is being squeezed by the spring washers, star and frame, essentially preventing it from rotating freely.
Everything else looks fine.

.

Do you know what part number? I'm not seeing it in the schematic but I'm probably missing it.

West
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: Keta on February 01, 2019, 03:31:06 PM
What schematic are you using? 
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: RamseyReelRepair on February 01, 2019, 03:52:21 PM
This is the only one I could find close to that foot number.

West
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: Keta on February 01, 2019, 03:56:36 PM

Shim washers are not on a lot of schematics.

Quote from: RamseyReelRepair on February 01, 2019, 03:52:21 PM
This is the only one I could find close to that foot number.

West

4600 C3 schematic #99 03.  Try putting the flat washer between the bearing and wavy washers.

(http://alantani.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=27551.0;attach=66075;image)
Title: Re: Ambassadeur 4600 c3 help!
Post by: exp2000 on February 01, 2019, 04:09:33 PM
I think Keta has the right idea - we just posted at the same time.

This is from a schematic with what appears to have an identical configuration (9903).

Note the part numbers of the belville washer stack: see pics below.

The correct configuration is 5131,5131, 20650, Bearing.   =   ()│B

The washer config in your pic appears to be inverted.

20650 appears to be a stepped washer which will achieve the function that Robert mentioned - at least on one side of the bearing!

Providing that the contact face of the drag star does not impinge on the outer bearing race on the other side you are OK.

Whether this would account for the severity of your issues is another matter. But at least it will eliminate one problem.