This question actually pertains to an Akios 656 CTM, or Abus with the two-pin centrifugal brakes...
The other day I had the C-clip pop off mid-cast and get bent up inside the brake drum. It apparently started shaving away tiny bits of the drum, as there was an aluminum (?) dust inside the reel when it was all over. Also, the single brake block I use got chewed up a bit.
I fashioned a new clip and cleaned everything out. This morning when casting, that brake block got worn down, partially melted, and came off its pin. Not sure which order this all happened in.
Does it sound like the existing damage on the brake block caused it to get ripped off its pin and get mangled further, or do you think the drum, when scraped by the loose C-clip, turned abrasive (though it feels smooth enough to the touch) did the damage?
matt, welcome. i'm not sure about the braking system, but hopefully someone here will be able to help. normally i would say to just disable the braking system and go with your thumb..... :-\
If it gouged the race/drum, then you may have deformed the centrifugal brake support ring (the thing that the brake pads ride on). It is such an odd shape that you may not have noticed it was deformed when you put it back on.
I'd try replacing the support ring with attached pads first, but only because it can be replaced cheaply. Replace the circle clip while you're at it. If the drum is ruined then you have to replace that whole brake plate assembly.
How was it casting? Did you feel like there was too much or too little braking before the pad burned up?
-steve
Great insights. The brake support ring looks fine. Nothing abrasive-looking on the race. The casts sounded sluggish, but distance didn't go down enough for me to get too worried about it at the time.
To be fair, the brake block may have only fallen off the pin as I was opening the reel up. The end of the block hitting the race/drum wasn't really melted (poor choice of words). It looks like some of the prior block damage caused the block to get caught and jam between the race and the pin at an angle where it was then ground down. Essentially the block looks like a sand spike now, only not as extreme an angle of truncation.
Good theory? Hope so. I have no idea where I'd get another Akios right interior plate assembly. I'll test it out again tomorrow with a fresh brake block.
Akios sell an assembly for a 5500, maybe it would fit in yours?
I'm with the Boss, yank it all out and use your thumb. In this case that is my position because it is what I do with every Abu and so I have nothing further to submit. Good luck!:)
The Man
Thumbing is fine at the beach, but I'm also using the reel for distance casting on the field and bought the reel for its braking systems, of which the centrifugal is my favorite.
My fresh block got chewed up too, so it's definitely some kind of abrasion going on with the race/drum. I have three possible solutions:
1. Buy a new brake plate assembly for an AkiosQuote from: Swami805 on September 02, 2020, 10:00:28 PM
Akios sell an assembly for a 5500, maybe it would fit in yours?
Swami - where did you see this? Someplace where I can buy it online?
2. Buy a more common Ambassadeur brake plate assembly. Is the position of the cage screw holes the only difference between this and Akios for this part? Can I get the Ambassadeur plate and just drill a new screw hole where needed?
3. Buff/sand out the gouging and polish the inside of the race/drum. Any thoughts on how to do this?
Check the Akios website in custom parts, I saw a whole assembly there, 6 pin brake system
Matt, can you post some pics of the spool (blocks side) and the race?
Here you go. Again, not much visibly wrong with the brake drum, but you see what it did to the block. Luckily Joe Moore of One More Cast in Avon, NC is an authorized Akios US warranty center and he's hooking me up with replacements for the effected parts.
Wow, never seen a block so messed up! Hard to believe the race did that, like you said, it looks smooth enough.
Where's the circle clip? If it doesn't fit right that could be the whole problem.
-steve
I'm perplexed. The brake plate (with the drum/race) has been replaced, but I'm still getting that horrible wear on my brake blocks (see photos above).
Steve: I took the clip off for that photo, but it's the one I fashioned myself and holds the washer in nice and snug. What are you thinking when you say the fit of that ring could be the problem?
Have you tried polishing the brake drum? I do this as on all centrifugally braked reels. Any good metal polish will work. I like to use blue jeweler's rouge personally, but there are other good options such as Brasso and Blue Magic.
Polishing was going to be my next step until I got the brand new brake plate and installed it. This recent "excellerated wear" phenomenon correlates with the originally-described clip pop-off event, and also my installation of ABEC-7 hybrid ceramic bearings... although neither seem to be related to the sudden occurrence of brake block wear.
Hmm... interesting mystery! ???
Do you have any of those brake blocks from the older Abu's? They are made of what looks like reinforced resin, maybe fiberglass. In the photo, yours looks like plain soft plastic. Perhaps your casting is too extreme for it? I'm betting those old resin blocks can take the heat much better.
Here's a sample pic (I got off the web) of the old style blocs:
Matt - I'm going to be theoretical here. Clearly some components are no longer playing "nice" together, even after you replaced them with new replacements. So, in no particular order:
1. Have you tried using both of the brake blocks instead of just a single? I am thinking that single brake block pad is just trying to do too much work (dissipate too much energy) than what it was designed for, and by distributing the load over 2 pads that they may survive better/do a better job.
2. Your bearing swap. Did the addition of the Ceramic hybrids substantially reduce friction? I am sure you spun the spool and hopefully even timed it to see what kind of improvement you netted. Here is the path I'm going down - admittedly theoretical: If you were to have a manual transmission car (remember those?) and kick it into neutral every time you approached a stop sign - you would burn out the brakes pretty quickly even under normal driving conditions - because the rest of the system (engine compression, driveline friction) is not working to slow the car down. I wonder if your bearing install (and presumably hi-tech lubricants as well?) so reduced the parasitic friction losses on the spool rotation that the ability of the brake blocks to manage the energy of the spool has been exceeded? Admittedly, this is purely theoretical but since you replaced the affected components with new replacements and seem to be having the same issue... - john
Yeah, that's all I can come up with at this point too: higher RPMs than even the heat-resistant nylon blocks were meant to handle.
Get a pair of Abu part# 22565 and the accommodating clutch washer part# 22567. The clutch washer for the nylon blocks is a little different than the washer used for the Bakelite blocks. You can use 22567 with nylon blocks but they won't snap into place. Conversely, you can't use the original clutch washer with the Bakelite blocks since the legs of the washer are too wide to fit them. The Bakelite blocks are free floating. Buy a couple of pairs because they tend to slide off into the oblivion when you remove the crank side assembly. It's the same clutch washer and brake blocks as found on the 4500/5500/6500CS Rocket reels.
I have an Akios 551 Shuttle - bought in 2012. I regularly used it for UK beach casting (but not for a while :()
Ceramic hybrid bearings from new everything oiled with TSI.
I just cracked it open - no wear on anything. It has spent most of it's working life chucking 5oz of lead 150yds plus (on a good day :))
I don't think 'normal wear and tear' is the cause of your problem. I think something else is going on.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on September 10, 2020, 10:18:34 AM
I don't think 'normal wear and tear' is the cause of your problem. I think something else is going on.
I agree with Chris, something is out of whack. I would be very surprised if there was enough centrifugal force on those blocks to cause the damage you are seeing. Looking at the one photo showing a damaged block, it appears to be worn at an angle as though it is being wedged against the brake drum while the reel is retrieving line (when there would be enough force to cause damage). Maybe the brake block can slide out too far, enough to tilt but not enough to fall off the 'washer leg' and then not retract after the cast? Are the new blocks, clutch washer and brake plate all matching parts? I'm guessing here, but brake blocks should last for ages under normal use. Like nelz said - Interesting mystery.
Mike
Quote from: Matt.T on September 09, 2020, 12:52:07 PM
Steve: I took the clip off for that photo, but it's the one I fashioned myself and holds the washer in nice and snug. What are you thinking when you say the fit of that ring could be the problem?
If the circle clip is not right then the whole thing will wobble. I have never been able to make or repair a circle clip with much success. Once it is removed, it may never fit correctly again because the diameter has changed. If you try to massage the diameter back it will not be perfectly round. Best to just replace it with a new one every time it is removed. I think the problem began with and remains a distorted circle clip.
-s
Quote from: oc1 on September 10, 2020, 07:38:28 PM
Quote from: Matt.T on September 09, 2020, 12:52:07 PM
Steve: I took the clip off for that photo, but it's the one I fashioned myself and holds the washer in nice and snug. What are you thinking when you say the fit of that ring could be the problem?
If the circle clip is not right then the whole thing will wobble. I have never been able to make or repair a circle clip with much success. Once it is removed, it may never fit correctly again because the diameter has changed. If you try to massage the diameter back it will not be perfectly round. Best to just replace it with a new one every time it is removed. I think the problem began with and remains a distorted circle clip.
-s
I've never had trouble removing and reinstalling the clip. I use a small screwdriver and pull one end up at a time, holding my finger over it so it don't fly off. It holds shape well unless you get rough or intentionally bend it out of shape.
Forgive the silly question, but I can't see the right-side spool bearing - assume you removed it prior to taking the photo?
(https://alantani.com/gallery/33/3590_10_09_20_3_06_16.jpeg)
redsetta: Yes, the bearing was out in the photo.
I put the factory bearings back in and went back to the same tuning before all this crap started and the block wear persists when casting. Next test: fresh factory circle clip instead of the homemade affair, although the only play in the clutch washer is slight rotation perpendicular to the axis of the spool. After that, ordering some of the old Abu blocks (would bakelite be more wear-resistant than the woven/resin variety?) and matching clutch washer.
I hope this maddening thread helps someone in the future...
Quote from: Matt.T on September 11, 2020, 01:13:39 AM
(would bakelite be more wear-resistant than the woven/resin variety?)
I thought they were the same thing??
-steve