Ok this might be the dumbest question ever asked on here (yet, give me time I'm sure I'll ask dumber stuff)but I truly don't know the answer. Who decided one day that conventional rigs are held with the reel on top and spinners with the reel on bottom? Is there a reason for it or is it a "that's how grandpappy did it so that's how I'll do it!" Kind of situation?
Can't thumb a spool Or guide the line very well on a conventional reel If it's on the bottom. Can't hold the line with your finger when casting with a spinner.
Quote from: Swami805 on September 03, 2020, 02:51:06 PM
Can't thumb a spool Or guide the line very well on a conventional reel If it's on the bottom. Can't hold the line with your finger when casting with a spinner.
Solid answers. But who decided a right handed person holds the rod in their right hand for a spinner and their left hand for conventional?
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 03, 2020, 02:57:29 PM
Quote from: Swami805 on September 03, 2020, 02:51:06 PM
Can't thumb a spool Or guide the line very well on a conventional reel If it's on the bottom. Can't hold the line with your finger when casting with a spinner.
Solid answers. But who decided a right handed person holds the rod in their right hand for a spinner and their left hand for conventional?
Had to be Col. ARSEBACKARDS from Leopoldville Poland back in the 1800's.
"But who decided a right handed person holds the rod in their right hand for a spinner and their left hand for conventional?"
some right handed guy that couldn't cast with his left hand !
conventional can't be manipulated easily/effectively on bottom
vice versa for spinners, plus their center of gravity is far from the blank
if I fight something I can't beat, I want it to know it fought me... like a big fish
gravity doesn't know I exist, no matter how hard I fight it
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 03, 2020, 02:57:29 PM
...But who decided a right handed person holds the rod in their right hand for a spinner and their left hand for conventional?
that's easy: best hand on rod for light tackle / best hand on reel for big game
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 03, 2020, 02:20:32 PM
Ok this might be the dumbest question ever asked on here (yet, give me time I'm sure I'll ask dumber stuff)but I truly don't know the answer. Who decided one day that conventional rigs are held with the reel on top and spinners with the reel on bottom? Is there a reason for it or is it a "that's how grandpappy did it so that's how I'll do it!" Kind of situation?
Don't have a clue about who decided conventionals go on top, probably trial & error, but Alfred Holden Illingworth quickly figured out that fixed spool reels (threadlines as they are often called) are more efficient under the rod than on top. He is generally credited with marketing
the first fixed spool reel in 1905, the Illingworth #1. (https://vintagefishingtackle.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/BOXED-ILLINGWORTH-No1-THREADLINE-REEL-002.jpg) ....................
In 1907 the second version came out with Patent 9338 1905 & oil me please. (https://images.orcaonline.org/u/18/Ben%27s%20illingworth%20no%201.JPG) He made the prototype sometime in 1903 for the sole purpose of casting light lures on light line. The reel had numerous revisions from 1910 through 1937...............
The 1910 version has a similar design to the open face spinners of today, but with open gearing. (https://images.orcaonline.org/u/140/DSC_0080.JPG) ..................
The 1933 version has enclosed gearing. (https://www.mullocksauctions.co.uk/cd-content/uploads/images/lots/FT-08Nov2014A/12.jpg)...................
You can view a few of the various revisions and models here. (https://www.google.com/search?q=illingworth+reels&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS583US583&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=U5v901mtfpyIeM%252CXIpwBr8Xs2gh8M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTgCkRIA42x8r5u8ASkhFAySPicmw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiRpp_AuM3rAhUBXM0KHRkBD6gQ9QF6BAgKEDE)
Depending on an individual's 'perception' of a fixed spool reel Malloch may have been the first patented reel:
Brass fixed spool reel
Peter Malloch, a fishing tackle dealer from Perth patented the first brass fixed spool spinning reel in 1884. Using a swivel foot principle, a conventional centrepin or rotating drum reel could be turned on a 90-degree axis allowing line to come off the top, thereby achieving greater distances. Its biggest drawback being that after the cast the reel had to be turned back to its original position on the rod.
Thanks all for the clear answers. It's likely obvious that I've never fished a conventional rig. But i am strongly considering picking up (and building) an old 4/0 senator just to join the party.
get an acid-wrapped rod for it
most of the guides will be on the bottom, like you're used to
functional AND you can taunt conventions like the POTUS ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 04, 2020, 04:51:09 PM
It's likely obvious that I've never fished a conventional rig but I am strongly considering picking up (and building) an old 4/0 senator just to join the party.
Say what? :o The party? ::) . (https://img.memecdn.com/he-shall-be-fishing-for-something-else-in-the-bedroom-later_o_5533391.jpg) :D :D
I have always thought that conventionals have the handle on the right side because the first ones were built out of available parts at the hardware store and used right hand threads. If the handle is on the left everything is reversed. I have zero evidence to support this other than finding the odd old reel that looks like it was made from lamp parts that were coming on the market right about then.
The Man
Quote from: Ron Jones on September 04, 2020, 06:48:25 PM
I have always thought that conventionals have the handle on the right side because the first ones were built out of available parts at the hardware store and used right hand threads. If the handle is on the left everything is reversed. I have zero evidence to support this other than finding the odd old reel that looks like it was made from lamp parts that were coming on the market right about then.
The Man
I hope that's true just for the coolness factor. It's crazy how many norms were dictated by happenstance a long time ago.
Thanks for sharing.
Quote from: Ron Jones on September 04, 2020, 06:48:25 PM
I have always thought that conventionals have the handle on the right side because the first ones were built out of available parts at the hardware store and used right hand threads. If the handle is on the left everything is reversed. I have zero evidence to support this other than finding the odd old reel that looks like it was made from lamp parts that were coming on the market right about then.
The Man
Vey insightful Ron. I'll take it as fact.
-s
When winding is the most important, handle goes on the dominant hand side.
Just about everyone can wind faster and with more strength with the dominant hand.
Dominant arm for lifting strength is not as important, as lifting with two hands when pumping is an option.
If you are cast and wind fishing (e.g. working lures), and casting with one hand, most folks prefer to cast with the dominant hand, so having the handle on the non-dominant side means that you do not have to switch hands to wind after every cast. With higher gear ratio reels and smaller target species, the advantage of the dominant hand in winding is not so important, and it can be useful to be able to start winding immediately at the end of a cast.
Fly reels are no different, except that you do not wind in on every cast and have an additional constraint: If the handle is on the non-dominant side, it is more likely to tangle the line when shooting on the cast or clearing on a big fish. So handle on the dominant side is the only way to go unless it bugs you too much and you don't cast far and/or target larger species.
The only caveat for all reel types, is that sometimes the difference is not substantial for a given situation, and once we get used to having the handle on a certain side, it can be hard to switch. Left hand wind convectional reels annoy me, but for some reason right or left spinners and fly reels work fine.
-----------
Regarding the original choice for right hand wind:
I think that the original conventional reels were knuckle busters (no anti-reverse/drag). Having the handle on the dominant side means being able to stop larger fish. Since most folks are right handed, and us lefties are used to getting screwed, the handle goes on the right side. Works out great unless you are a right handed violinist or a surgeon :)
But we all get our own guess at this one, since we were not around when the design decision was made.
---------
Regarding first conventional reel:
I would start out with a reel that is more easily castable. A 4/0 will be no fun in that regard. Something smaller with an anti-backlash feature would be nice (like a bass or inshore saltwater sized reel). Load it with mono to start out. Lots of folk give up on conventional reels after a couple nasty backlashes, and spend the rest of their lives fishing with training wheels spinning reels. :)
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on September 04, 2020, 08:49:34 PM
When winding is the most important, handle goes on the dominant hand side.
Just about everyone can wind faster and with more strength with the dominant hand.
Dominant arm for lifting strength is not as important, as lifting with two hands when pumping is an option.
If you are cast and wind fishing (e.g. working lures), and casting with one hand, most folks prefer to cast with the dominant hand, so having the handle on the non-dominant side means that you do not have to switch hands to wind after every cast. With higher gear ratio reels and smaller target species, the advantage of the dominant hand in winding is not so important, and it can be useful to be able to start winding immediately at the end of a cast.
Fly reels are no different, except that you do not wind in on every cast and have an additional constraint: If the handle is on the non-dominant side, it is more likely to tangle the line when shooting on the cast or clearing on a big fish. So handle on the dominant side is the only way to go unless it bugs you too much and you don't cast far and/or target larger species.
The only caveat for all reel types, is that sometimes the difference is not substantial for a given situation, and once we get used to having the handle on a certain side, it can be hard to switch. Left hand wind convectional reels annoy me, but for some reason right or left spinners and fly reels work fine.
-----------
Regarding the original choice for right hand wind:
I think that the original conventional reels were knuckle busters (no anti-reverse/drag). Having the handle on the dominant side means being able to stop larger fish. Since most folks are right handed, and us lefties are used to getting screwed, the handle goes on the right side. Works out great unless you are a right handed violinist or a surgeon :)
But we all get our own guess at this one, since we were not around when the design decision was made.
---------
Regarding first conventional reel:
I would start out with a reel that is more easily castable. A 4/0 will be no fun in that regard. Something smaller with an anti-backlash feature would be nice (like a bass or inshore saltwater sized reel). Load it with mono to start out. Lots of folk give up on conventional reels after a couple nasty backlashes, and spend the rest of their lives fishing with training wheels spinning reels. :)
-J
Solid post. I'm noticing a trend.
You're probably right about the senator. Theres probably a lot more beginner friendly stuff out there. I guess I just have refurb fever after the fun I'm having with the SS. And theres a ton of them for cheap on CL. I'll gice it more thought before I go out and buy my next toy.
I have taught a lot of people how to cast a conventional. My absolute favorite to start on is the Beachmaster or Surfmaster (mid width.) If one of those isn't available then any Ambassador will do.
The Man