Does anyone know a 4/0 or smaller size level drag type reel that can lift from the ground, by cranking, a 20lb dead weight or over? It doesn't matter if is one or two speed nor price, what matters is, it can't be bigger then an 4/0 size reel and to dead lift that 20lb weight BY TURNING THE HANDLE NOT BY LIFTING UP THE ROD.
I would like to know this based on someones experience that are backed by measured facts, not just assumptions.
Thank you!
There are many reels that can do this, esp. 2 speed reels. I've see Penn's TRQ LD do this but I esp. like the Makaira 15 II and accurate ATD 30s.
how much can the Makaira II lift maximum?
Will it have the same lifting power like a Makaira 10?, I belive both have the same handles, gear ratio & Spool diameter.
Inspiro
What will be teh ultimate winch in this size or close for bottom fish?
Inspiro
Quote from: Inspiro on December 21, 2011, 12:14:14 PM
What will be teh ultimate winch in this size or close for bottom fish?
Inspiro
Any mid size and up two speed reel would work well, the depth you are fishing determines the size of the reel. I have a Penn 50SW set up for deep water fishing that has a 1:1 low gear for "cranking power".
Ok to be more specific
Price is a main factor
Depth of no more than 200 ft
Drag around 25 lb I guess(for 60-70 lb groupers)
Fishing line 100lb briad or 80mono (25lb drag x 3)
weight is an issue as well
Inspiro
If $250 is in your price range a Penn 113HN Baja Special would work with a advertised drag of 27lbs, a 4.25:1 gear ratio and a weight of 29oz.
For fishing over 50' deep I'd stay with braid due to it's low stretch.
Why are you not wanting to pump with your rod, is this for a handicapped fisherman? My legs were severely crushed and twisted several years ago (no broken bones but my knees were destroyed and tendon behind my right knee almost severed by the pressure of the machenery on my legs) and my legs don't work too good. I have learned to get around my limitations, up to a 258lb YFT, but I use two speed reels and the rail.
If Boghy is in fact fishing grouper he's just cranking. If you pump the rod before you get him off the bottom you stand a better chance on losing him to the rocks. Ya can't give those grouper a chance to get back to their domain...crank fast until ya get him at least 10-20 feet off the bottom.
Keta,
Pulling in a 250lb. YFT without much use of the legs... you must have arms like a gorilla! Kudos to you for not giving up on the things you love... inspirational!
PS- maybe the 4/0 metal senator would do the trick, but I like the baja (113hn) a bit more for versatility. The other route is to ask Sal how to build a behemoth of a 4/0 (113H) senator ;)
Dom
If Boghy is in fact fishing grouper he's just cranking. If you pump the rod before you get him off the bottom you stand a better chance on losing him to the rocks. Ya can't give those grouper a chance to get back to their domain...crank fast until ya get him at least 10-20 feet off the bottom.
Like a large YT on structure.
Pulling in a 250lb. YFT without much use of the legs... you must have arms like a gorilla! Kudos to you for not giving up on the things you love... inspirational!
Big gut helps ;D Actually I run around 150lbs. I occasionally have to move 150lb-160lb hay bales so I have some upper body strength still.
Never caught a yellowfin before...wait a minute... did you say you weigh 150lbs. and move 150-160lb. hay bales... you're an OX!
good stuff,
Dom
Quote from: Inspiro on December 21, 2011, 01:12:52 PM
Ok to be more specific
Price is a main factor
Depth of no more than 200 ft
Drag around 25 lb I guess(for 60-70 lb groupers)
Fishing line 100lb briad or 80mono (25lb drag x 3)
weight is an issue as well
Inspiro
Makaira 10II is small reel. I think it holds 300 yrs of 65# spectra with max 27# of drag at strike (per spec) at a little less than $500. I'd probably go with the Makaira 20II for $40 more. See http://www.okumafishingteam.com/family/284012.
Quote from: boghy on December 21, 2011, 08:07:22 AM
Does anyone know a 4/0 or smaller size level drag type reel that can lift from the ground, by cranking, a 20lb dead weight or over? It doesn't matter if is one or two speed nor price, what matters is, it can't be bigger then an 4/0 size reel and to dead lift that 20lb weight BY TURNING THE HANDLE NOT BY LIFTING UP THE ROD.
I would like to know this based on someones experience that are backed by measured facts, not just assumptions.
Thank you!
That's a tough challange you're putting out there, boghy. You are talking 20lb of dead weight correct? I think you should look into a bigger reel, I won't even attempt to do that kind of test on my 4/0. I would lift a 20 to 25 lb bucket of water by lifting the rod with my Penn Senator "little tank" 4/0 that I just completed. That would be as far as I would push a 4/0...well my 4/0. If anyone here thinks that it can be done with a 4/0 by cranking, I would love to see the video...not the pictures :-\
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 21, 2011, 07:19:49 PM
Quote from: boghy on December 21, 2011, 08:07:22 AM
Does anyone know a 4/0 or smaller size level drag type reel that can lift from the ground, by cranking, a 20lb dead weight or over? It doesn't matter if is one or two speed nor price, what matters is, it can't be bigger then an 4/0 size reel and to dead lift that 20lb weight BY TURNING THE HANDLE NOT BY LIFTING UP THE ROD.
I would like to know this based on someones experience that are backed by measured facts, not just assumptions.
Thank you!
That's a tough challange you're putting out there, boghy. You are talking 20lb of dead weight correct? I think you should look into a bigger reel, I won't even attempt to do that kind of test on my 4/0. I would lift a 20 to 25 lb bucket of water by lifting the rod with my Penn Senator "little tank" 4/0 that I just completed. That would be as far as I would push a 4/0...well my 4/0. If anyone here thinks that it can be done with a 4/0 by cranking, I would love to see the video...not the pictures :-\
THANK YOU!!! Finally someone realized the EXACT MEANING of my question!
So, i ask again - is there anyone fully aware strictly based on previous experience that CAN DEAD LIFT (like a crane) an 20lb weight ONLY BY TURNING THE REEL'S HANDLE for a 4/0 OR less type reel? - ANY PRICE - ANY BRAND.
Example: You have your reel on your rod - then tie a 20lb fitness weight, turn the 4/0's handle WITHOUT MOVING YOUR ROD, then the 20lb weight should lift up! No fish - no water - no moving up and down your rod - just you - your rod - your reel and your 20lb dead weight. That's it that's all. There is one thing a the drag power and other is the cranking power two different worlds. The faulty part of ANY reel manufactures is that they don't have a standard to measure the cranking power.
I'll go to the shop in the morning and get my Avet EX 4/0 two speed with a EX 50 handle on it and my bent butt 80 rod and see what I can lift with it. I'm sure I can lift 20lbs with my Penn 50 STW with 1:1 low gear.
I'm looking forward to read your test results.
this is basically a dead lift with 18 pounds. two extra pounds would be no problem.
Quote from: alantani on August 22, 2010, 11:43:42 PM
meet ed watson. he fishes all over the world. he likes fishing the salt for bigger fish and needs gear that offers him every possible mechanical advantage. his next trip is to the great barrier reef. on his last trip, he hooked in a yellowfin tuna from a skiff and he landed it with his boss two speed accurate. it was tough for him because the skiff did not have a rail and the reel did not have lugs.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_21_08_10_10_23_38_1.jpeg)
right now he is pulling against a trailer hitch with my makaira 10, 65 pound spectra and 18 pounds at strike.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_21_08_10_10_23_36_0.jpeg)
i asked him to try to turn the handle in high gear and he could not do it. this is with an 18# drag setting. but when i punched the reel into low gear, cranking the 6/0 kolekar handle was no problem. that's an 18 pound drag setting and a 2.1:1 gear ratio. the makaira offers ed a lower gear ratio than other reels. it's basically a granny gear and that helps him. it also has lugs. this will allow ed to harness in at the beginning of the fight. when the fish is straight up and down, he can pop the reel out of the harness and still have some strength left. and ed likes the big handle grips. it greatly decreases the fatigue factor during a long fight.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_21_08_10_10_23_41_2.jpeg)
i did a quick check of retail prices and the bx2-500 is $585 at charkbait. the makaira 10 retails at $440. for a guy like ed, the makaira and nomad combo offers significant advantages. i'm going to send one of these with him on his trip so that he can check it out before he buys. sounds like he's going to buy one anyway. it's a great 50# rig. all we need now is a narrowed makaira 8 II for 50# spectra and a 40# topshot. alan
So, so far Makaira 10 is one confirmed option.
Any other reel(s) out there that can be confirmed to generate the 20lb cranking power for the 4/0 size or less?
I believe that the most accurate test here would be to lift a dead weight of 20lb by cranking the hanle only, with a 4/0. No trailers no scales and no water, as boghy mentioned. Mr Watson looks like a healty young man, BUT, I don't believe that he could lift 20lb of dead waight just by cranking the handle. I'm pretty confidend that I could do it, I've been doing manual labor for over 35 years and have enough upper body strength to do the test. Although I have more confidence in my old Penn ( the 4/0 that I customized ) than the Makaira, I will not put it to that test, but someone could send me the Makaira ;). I'm not questioning anyone here or saying that it can't be done. If someone can do it AS EXPLAINED ABOVE, I would like to see it. Sal
Dear Boghy, sorry I did not mean to interfere with your topic
Dear Keta, I raise my hat for you man, this is the trus fisherman will to defy anything that gets btween him and his hobby
Back to topic
I am suspicious that the Baja special with the 4.3 ratio can have enough power, what do you think?
Can the regular drag of the 4/0 or 6/0 stop those monster groupers? is there a way to upgrade it?
Inspiro
An Avet EX 4/0 in low gear on a bent butt rod in a rod holder will lift 3 8lb downrigger balls but it is not easy.
If 38lb is hard to lift, 20lb SHOULD be easier, right?
It was three 8 pound downrigger balls, about 24 lbs.
Quote from: Keta on December 23, 2011, 05:52:18 AM
It was three 8 pound downrigger balls, about 24 lbs.
Oh... my bad. Somehow i've read 38lb, but 24lb sounds good.
Okay - now that we somewhat narrow down the "options" - let's raise the bar with one more aspect - in today's market - this reel has to cost NOT MORE then $230.
Now, what options do we have?
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 22, 2011, 10:46:02 AM
I believe that the most accurate test here would be to lift a dead weight of 20lb by cranking the hanle only, with a 4/0. No trailers no scales and no water, as boghy mentioned. Mr Watson looks like a healty young man, BUT, I don't believe that he could lift 20lb of dead waight just by cranking the handle. Sal
i dunno, sal. ed held on to that rod and he cranked the handle with considerable ease..... ;D
Going after those monsters most of his life, Mr Watson could probably do it :-\. I'm sure that he can hold that rod better then most of us. I would still love to see a video of Mr Watson or any other members here lifting a 20 to 25lb dead waight just by cranking the handle with a 4/0 or less.
I believe that boghy was trying to stimulate the economy. I'm sure that some of the reels will need to have some parts replaced afterward :-\
Sal
Sounds like an Okuma Cavalla 20II might work or at least it's in the price range.
Thanks Mackeraljoe - I was just waiting to see if someone else would say it - Jimmer
This is EXACTLY where i want to end up with with my question - to talk about what can be truly done in EASY way with: Okuma Cavalla CA-20-II
I'll be honest with you guys, till today i'm still scratching my head to follow Okuma's way to measure the drags, and to come up with the same or at least near to thous drag numbers that were published for Okuma Cavalla series - but i still couldn't figure it out.
So, as some of you may know, i do some reel tunings here and there - and my new thing that i came up with is how to tune up the drag on Okuma Cavalla CA-20-II WITHOUT loosing freespool and be in range of $230 all together. As we all know you can't go wrong with eBay biddings to purchase this reel cheaper under $200 - brand new.
Lets start with: For who this tuneup is?
If you're looking to cast BIG chunk of bait and have some nice drags PLUS cranking power, you'll need to go deep into your pockets to spend at least $400 for a nice avet HX two speed or okuma makaira 10 (considering that can dead lift 20lb weight) OR you can modify an Okuma Cavalla CA-20-II to that job fairly well for around half that money.
It was not easy to figure out how to do it, since it toke some "out of the box" thinking to come up with this:
1) The classical bellevilles change is needed from "()" to - and please bear with me here OK? : [bearing]=((=[end axle] <<<--- VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE BEND OF THE "bellevilles" TO BE AWAY FROM THE BEARING - NOT TOWARDS THE BEARING - GOT IT?
,and now THE TRICKY PART which was also my "out of the box thinking":
2) call okuma and order the part number #16050111 which is called "Level Drag" and part number #16020024 which is the "ADJUST BLOCK" for Okuma Cavalla CA-50W-II NOT Okuma Cavalla CA-20-II - sounds weird right? - but this stuff - works!
By doing thous changes you'll lose the dotted steeps that all okuma cavalla series have, and you'll gain a true 10lb drag at strike and 20-22lb drag at full strike without loosing freespool. You WON'T loose the strike button functionality with the 50w's level drag and WILL BE STOPPED BY THE BUTTON, when pushed forward - at strike. Also, you'll notice how EXTREMELY EASY up to the point to trick you - on how easy will be to engage your level drag all the way to the strike. The size of the level drag won't look big at all from 50w cavalla, as a matter of fact, if you'll show this reel to someone who never seen an Cavalla 20, will NOT even notice the level drag coming from 50w.
[updated 12/29/2011]
3) Please read the *** at the bottom of this post.
At 1.7:1 lower gear ratio - you'll be amazed what fish you can lift up like a crane up on the pier without using a gaff or a pier net.
For offshore? - no experience - but you can use your imagination to figure it out where this reel will be your best fit - after changing these settings.
After all these changes - enjoy your newly modified Okuma Cavalla CA-20-II - i'm sure you'll gonna smile when you'll see what the end results are.
P.S. The trick used for Okuma Cavalla CA-50II to tune up the drag DOES NOT WORK for Okuma Cavalla CA-20-II. <<<---- WRONG [updated 12/29/2011]
[updated 12/29/2011]
***The Okuma Cavalla CA-20II WILL need that ONE part #16090013 named "Spring Washer" from Okuma Solterra SLR-15CS an $0.50 value, where will need to be installed in the SAME way like 50w series, shown here: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1696.msg12189#msg12189
...now the upgrade should work properly.
I would like to apologize with my initial question from my first post, when i had in my mind, already the answer - just to come to the point of the above post - to give the solution about - how can be a cheap tuneup done, for the only option currently available - the 20ll cavalla under thous "requirements".
P.S. Alan, if you want you can split that post and transfer the step-by-step post to the "Okuma Tutorials and Questions" - i'm sure that many Okuma Cavalla 20 users will find it - useful.
In my mind, the ONLY fault that Okuma Cavalla series had, was the design of the "Adjust Block". IF - AND - ONLY - IF - YOU COMPARE - this part of the reel with ANY other OKUMA level drag "Adjust Block" - you'll notice that Okuma Cavalla's "Adjust Block" - is very roughly made. No smooth surfaces, no right angle - its like not even finished, which makes the "Adjust Block" to GROUND - overtime - the "Level Drag" (heck, i even found grounded pieces from the "level drag" mixed with grease) - this is also what gives you that "hard push" feeling. It's sad to see it go, even though, i'm 100% sure - if the people in the QA department from Okuma would push the "Adjust Block" to be shaped up - the Okuma Cavalla series would STILL be A BAD A... REEL. IF you manage to follow my tutorial on how to tune up your drag - you'll realize that 20lbs fish, for $230 ebay price - is no big deal - to lift up like a crane 20ft high.
Thank you for reading this.
I don't have a ca 12 to compare the ca 50 parts to. What is the difference here? Longer drag lever, different cam angle, better surface finish? Thanks - Jimmer
Quote from: Jimmer on December 28, 2011, 03:47:04 PM
I don't have a ca 12 to compare the ca 50 parts to. What is the difference here? Longer drag lever, different cam angle, better surface finish? Thanks - Jimmer
For Cavalla 50w the "Adjust Block" is made from two parts, unlike 20's where is ONE part only. So for 50w we have one "Adjust Block" which is part #16020024 (key #602-1) that belongs actually to the "Level Drag" itself, and the ACTUAL "Adjust Block", part #16020025 (key #602) WHICH IS THE SAME WITH THE 20's model.
To eliminate ANY confusion, when i mention that the "Adjust Block" has rough surfaces, i was talking about part #16020025 (key #602) that's pretty much "universal" to cavalla series. This "Adjust Block" aka #16020025 - does NOT belong to this upgrade process since is the SAME FOR ALL CAVALLA SERIES - AND - this is actually the "catch problem" with cavalla series where this "cheap" "Adjust Block" - part #16020025" - was designed very poorly.
When tuning the 20's reel, the combination of the 50w's "Level Drag aka #16050111 (key #605)" and "Adjust Block aka #16020024 (key #602-1)" is what smooth up the friction on the "cheap" "Adjust Block" - part #16020025", NOT THE "cheaply made "Adjust Block" - part #16020025" itself.
To better understand my post, please take a look at the Okuma Cavalla 50w schematics (http://www.fishingstyles.com/forums/okuma-fishing-reels/okuma-cavalla-50w-ii-schematics-t22.html). You'll need Adobe Reader to view the schematics.
Let me know if you didn't understand something. I don't mind helping people, especially if this will save you an extra buck.
Jimmer,
Try not to make the adjust block issue complicated. The 50w uses a different lever assembly that is 2 pieces while the ca20 uses a 1 piec cast lever. The cams are the same and were never upgraded for surface texture and corrosion resistance. I did some testing of the cavalla and the soltera which shared similar cams. both were textured and would rust. I was able to get Okuma to redesign the Soltera cam with a satin finish and a higher grade stainless. The Soltera cam upgraded Part # 16020013. It will fit the Cavalla but will have a slightly softer ramp (in my opinion a good thing). You can also replace the brown washer with a cut down #0920004 teflon washer to make lever action at high drag smoother.
So here is the deal with Cavallas that will not achieve spec drag with free spool. first you MUST only use the stock bellevills and the the lever can not be warn down too much. The rough cam has a tendency to grind down the aluminum lobes in the lever of the 15 and 20 (especially true if you use high drag settings and move the drag a lot while fighting fish). If the lobes flatten out too much the free spool detente will loose range and not give complete free spool. I have had to replace 1 lever on my CA20.
BTW trying to smooth out the surface of the CA cam is a effort in futility. The material is very hard.
Jim N.
I wonder how much this will bump up the price for cavalla series on ebay... anyway... based on okuma officials, they WILL provide parts support for cavalla series up to 5-6 years, so - there you have it. Even though for 2012 catalog they retire the cavalla series - 5-6 years in parts, will still be available. That's about $50/year for 50w's and about $46/year for 20's - in value speaking.
to tighten up the preset knob on this reel or the accurates, use repair #35 o-ring - 11/16" o.d. x 9/16" i.d. x 1/16" it is part #96749 at most hardware stores. alan
Quote from: alantani on December 30, 2011, 04:36:37 AM
to tighten up the preset knob on this reel or the accurates, use repair #35 o-ring - 11/16" o.d. x 9/16" i.d. x 1/16" it is part #96749 at most hardware stores. alan
I updated my post (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3204.msg21499#msg21499), where i realized what i "skipped" when i mention that tuneup.
In that way the knob
won't need to be too tighten. Cost about $0.50 directly from okuma. Just ordered some.
The #16050111 which is called "Level Drag" cost about $19, the part number #16020024 which is the "ADJUST BLOCK" cost about $5 both from Cavalla 50w's and the part #16090013 named "Spring Washer" from Okuma Solterra SLR-15CS an $0.50 plus $4 shipping, is about $30 rounded up.
P.S. I know pics replace 1,000 words, i just didn't had the time to make the full tutorial on this tune up yet, but within 2 weeks i would be able to do so, like my past ones were made.
Quote from: boghy on December 30, 2011, 05:58:57 AM
Quote from: alantani on December 30, 2011, 04:36:37 AM
to tighten up the preset knob on this reel or the accurates, use repair #35 o-ring - 11/16" o.d. x 9/16" i.d. x 1/16" it is part #96749 at most hardware stores. alan
I updated my post (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3204.msg21499#msg21499), where i realized what i "skipped" when i mention that tuneup.
In that way the knob won't need to be too tighten. Cost about $0.50 directly from okuma. Just ordered some.
The #16050111 which is called "Level Drag" cost about $19, the part number #16020024 which is the "ADJUST BLOCK" cost about $5 both from Cavalla 50w's and the part #16090013 named "Spring Washer" from Okuma Solterra SLR-15CS an $0.50 plus $4 shipping, is about $30 rounded up.
Alan, the timing on this thread is amazing. It looks as though we are seeing issues that are directly relevant to my Cavalla 15-IIs. If you think different parts are the answer, rather than trying to modify/fix the existing part, please go ahead and get them.
Imagine that - I need help guys.
I ordered from Okuma the part #16020024 (called: ADJUST BLOCK) aka key #602-1 which belongs to Okuma Cavalla CA-50WII and to my surprise, this part DID NOT FIT PROPERLY INTO AN Okuma Cavalla CA-50WII. The center HOLE was somewhat smaller then the ORIGINAL one. So, after scratching my head, i end up installing this part into Okuma Cavalla CA-20II with the 50w's "Level Drag", AND adding the Okuma Solterra SLR-15CS's key #609 which is the part #16090013 - the reel bumped up to 30-32lbs drag at strike and 40-42lb at full drag, measured at full spool, WITHOUT LOOSING FREESPOOL. Sounds crazy, but something doesn't add up, which is also the part where i would like to hear some opinions from you guys - is anyone aware about any backdoor changes to the part number #16020024 (called: ADJUST BLOCK), made by Okuma that does not fit properly Okuma Cavalla CA-50WII's reel? I mean, we seen some changes made to Okuma Solterra's series - was this also done quietly then to realize "Oh crap, if we'll let this small change to flood the marked, our Okuma Makaira series will suffer from market share - so let's pull the plug" Hmm... this is very very shady. I had an old #16020024 (called: ADJUST BLOCK), but the new one OR IS FROM THE Okuma Cavalla CA-30-II where they sent it to me by error (which i'm not aware of, since i didn't had one of thous reels in my hands) OR, is what i just said above, where they did that change to #16020024 (called: ADJUST BLOCK) and works better then expected where Okuma Makaira would be affected.
Anyway - i got 1 minute and 43 sec of freespool "20-22lbs at strike and 30-32lb at full digitally measured" (the original spool bearings where serviced by removing the dust caps, bearings were grease cleaned then dried and applied on drop of quantum hot sauce oil on each bearing )
Talking about catch ha?
P.S. Next week i'll gonna do A VIDEO DEMO OF MY TUNEUP - THAT'S A PROMISE! Where i'll gonna lay down every single piece of details - STEEP BY STEEP, till then, enjoy my rod bend at 30lbs with Okuma Cavalla CA-20II:
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g478/boghy2010/DSC05989.jpg)
...glow in dark shark rod with an half a mile away visibility - marine grade reflective tape, is just - nuts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrAHdH9T6yk - enjoy
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g478/boghy2010/Custom%20Shark%20Rod/DSC05882.jpg)
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g478/boghy2010/Custom%20Shark%20Rod/DSC05888.jpg)