I bought a Fuji guide set, turns out it was a 'micro' set. and Ifailed to remember that the size is outside diameter. So I figured a size 4 guide was likely only a bit smaller than a size 5, but it's way smaller. These things are tiny! I don't know enough to know of this is an issue, or if small guides like this are just fine. I'm gonna be running 10# braid on a 7' rod. Is this gonna screw with throwing long casts? Again I don't know enough to know if its an issue.
what's gonna pass through those guides?
just skinny braid -- no prob.
joint knot -- which one? how neat? what diameter mono/flouro?
Quote from: philaroman on February 25, 2021, 09:34:31 PM
what's gonna pass through those guides?
just skinny braid -- no prob.
joint knot -- which one? how neat? what diameter mono/flouro?
If a knot passes through there, i either reeled to far and got the leader or i lost the fight and got to mono backing. I'll need a different tip though, the one I have sits way out past them.
I hate micro guides specially if they are advertized like that.. thats all I can say ;D ;D
I dont care if the braid is 10# and super thin but I hate to have problems to get my line to cross through those tiny eyes eveytime I prepare the gear to fish, problems of getting old, even a normal size 6 guide eye is cataloged as too small in my books, I take all those 6 size guides and smaller guides out from any of my rods and install 8 size or 10 size guides instead.
what's this 7' nonsense, anyway? ...thought you were going for 9-12'
BTW, just noticed a price-friendly Shimano w/ Fuji & interesting specs:
Lure Matic 9' ML 4-15# 3/16-1 oz.
guessing, bendy enough to protect 4# & throw <1/4 oz.,
AND slightly beefier butt & tip to throw 1oz w/ heavier line,
...might be good for Light S/W
They'll be fine if there's no knot going thru them.
From the look of the set, you have purchased a set of guides for a KR set up, and the theory is that by the time the line gets as far as the micro guides, the line is running dead straight, so no coils or spiral action. We build a 12'light surf rod for launching 3oz sinkers and bait, and we happily use size 6 guides of a similar profile with 35lb braid and a 50lb braid leader, and the knot just whistles through those guides without noise or hesitancy.
So, for an ultra light rod with just 10lb braid, there will be no issues at all. Just build it!!!
Mistakes now in these first projects, should be regarded as 'school fees', just part of the learning cycle. paid with pleasure, for the benefit of learning.
I don`t see a problem with the small guides , but i will use a ring tip of # 8 or 10 , it makes it easier for the knot to make the turn .
I went with the 7 footer for the sake of having a rough first go at it with something cheap. I bought this no name unmarked blank for $30 on sale. But I went with the Fuji alconites (also on sale) and the fuji reel seat in case I get it right. I really want that black hole surf blank next. I think I'm about $80 into this total. Less if you dont count the glue and thread that can be used for multiple builds.
And the lurematic looks like a great rod. But I'd like it better with cork. I love my teramar. It looks like an upgrade on that.
Also speaking of guides Hows this look for alignment? That first guide feels a bit low. But I'm getting there. I really love this silicone tape stuff. Stops up leaky coolant lines under the hood, and holds the guides on pretty well for playing around. Only sticks to itself, no residue. I might be able to throw a test cast or two with it on. I have 6 of those tiny fellas to go up at the top but i think im only gonna use 5. Keep one for when one eventually goes bye bye.
I am definitely not a rod building expert, so for what that is worth... the placement looks good to me, including the first guide. I think it lines up well with the size of reel and should funnel the line cone quickly in addition to the 2nd guide.
How does the rod react with it under load with line, as in fish-fighting load? For a 7' I personally would prefer the extra guide. Perhaps the spacing can be nudged a bit starting with #2 so to make room for the 6th guide if needed.
If you plan on doing test casts with the taped guides, then an alternative strategy for placement of the guides, might be to have the centre of each guide line up with the table edge - this will push the first guide up the rod considerably. Tape and test both options, and then remove the silicone tape, and thoroughly clean all the blank with acetone or something similar - 2 part finish resins do not like anything to do with silicone, they just won't set!
X2 on what Jeri said about silicon , if you don't get it off completely you'll get fish eyes. A lot of brands of embroidery thread have silicon in them too, stick with rod wrapping thread.
good catch on the silicon Tape by Jeri, finish resins dont mix with any kind of oil, grease, silicon, etc.
you need to clean the blank with DNA (I try to avoid acetone ) really good before and after wrapping the guides and specially before to put the epoxy, clean your hands always when working on your rod or when touching any of the tools.
;D Number 4 micro guide is very small , very hard to pick up with your fat fingers . Going to be hard to learn how to wrap one , when you are a beginner or even if you have done a few wraps I found 3 u tube videos on how to tie micro guides , each one is a little different . What is your path of least frustration ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d9xnQYnjQI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kCHh3T5eOY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ3aqKnig00
Without having watched the videos (I'm still at work but i will when i get home) the plan that I'd try first would be to hold it in place with a bread bag twist-tie until I can get a few wraps on it.
I also considered just wrapping the blank but not super tight, and sliding the mini guide in place after the fact. That might be a non-starter but dang it I considered it.
I also considered soaking the starting end of the wrap in a tiny bit of adhesive to help.
I also considered ignoring the normal approach of not firmly affixing the guides until they're wrapped, and super gluing the tiny ones in place, taking time to get them perfectly straight (or using a bamboo skewer to help that straightness) and then wrapping after.
It may well be that all those ideas are terrible. But at least I have a few ideas to consider. I look forward to getting new ideas from the video.
keep super glue away from blank -- it's acetone-based (or ?_ketone)
may damage blank -- not carbon/glass fibers, themselves, but whatever epoxy holds them together
not so much the tiny drop used, but the future soak for removal
Sacrificial orthodontic rubber bands or O-ring
Thanks for the heads up re: super glue. Back to the drawing board on that one. For reference, when I say tiny, i mean:
Very narrow strips of masking tape, works a dream, without having to re-invent the wheel. Just don't cover the first part of the foot, once the thread is 5 or 6 turns up the foot, gently remove the masking tape strip. Fine alignment adjusting as necessary after the guide is fully and tightly bound.
curious: all my Fuji's are actually stamped "Fuji"
are they maintaining brand pride & counterfeit prevention w/ #4 micro?
Quote from: oc1 on March 01, 2021, 08:15:06 PM
Sacrificial orthodontic rubber bands or O-ring
break open dead lighters for tiny O-rings, if you just need a few
(also right size to keep metal dart shafts from self-unscrewing)
;D A dragon fly would have troubles landing on this size guide . If they are branding this size , i need a microscope to see it . ::)
Surprisingly no fuji stamp. I got em from mudhole so I doubt they're fake, see Fred's 20-20 rule. The other sizes in the set are stamped.
Maybe they just didn't brand it because they don't wanna take the blame?
Quote from: Jeri on March 01, 2021, 10:46:22 PM
Very narrow strips of masking tape, works a dream, without having to re-invent the wheel. Just don't cover the first part of the foot, once the thread is 5 or 6 turns up the foot, gently remove the masking tape strip. Fine alignment adjusting as necessary after the guide is fully and tightly bound.
thats what I use, the smaller the guide the thinner the masking tape strip, tried different methods but always got back to the goodol masking tape strip
I wouldn't use SG either, not because I'm worried about the blank from a drop of glue but more that it's nice to be able to do a final alignment before epoxy. Some guys use tip top hot glue but that is a pain and I always wind up going back to masking tape. Put a 1.5" or so strip on a piece of glass and cut small sliver, or buy some pinstriping tape from automotive store. A thin slice of surgical tubing or rubber bands from a orthodontist
Quote from: philaroman on March 01, 2021, 11:12:02 PM
curious: all my Fuji's are actually stamped "Fuji"
are they maintaining brand pride & counterfeit prevention w/ #4 micro?
Fuji were for a long time the only company marking their products, so basically you could tell the genuine product from copies, still the case even on the smallest of guides. Surprising the number of manufacturers that incorrectly claim their rods have Fuji guides.
Every Fuji guide I have ever purchased has had their stamp on it. If your eyes are like mine you'll need a jeweler's loop to see it, especially on the smaller examples. It almost seems like they made it even smaller over the last few years. ::) Or maybe then, again, it's just me. :D
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 02, 2021, 07:00:54 PM
Every Fuji guide I have ever purchased has had their stamp on it. If your eyes are like mine you'll need a jeweler's loop to see it, especially on the smaller examples. It almost seems like they made it even smaller over the last few years. ::) Or maybe then, again, it's just me. :D
Ive got better than 20/20. I can often focus on things my phone camera cannot focus on. Size 6 guides have the stamp. To the best of my observation these size 4's do not have a stamp. Frankly there's no place to put it.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 02, 2021, 07:15:18 PM
Ive got better than 20/20. I can often focus on things my phone camera cannot focus on.
seems that you havent reached 40 yo mark yet.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 02, 2021, 07:00:54 PM
Every Fuji guide I have ever purchased has had their stamp on it. If your eyes are like mine you'll need a jeweler's loop to see it, especially on the smaller examples. It almost seems like they made it even smaller over the last few years. ::) Or maybe then, again, it's just me. :D
I think they are also making them more blurry and fuzzy looking than they used to. :(
maybe modern micros are so minimalist, that stamping the logo would diminish structural integrity
Quote from: SteveL on March 02, 2021, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 02, 2021, 07:00:54 PM
Every Fuji guide I have ever purchased has had their stamp on it. If your eyes are like mine you'll need a jeweler's loop to see it, especially on the smaller examples. It almost seems like they made it even smaller over the last few years. ::) Or maybe then, again, it's just me. :D
I think they are also making them more blurry and fuzzy looking than they used to. :(
Thank you , I though i was the only one that though they were fuzzy looking !!! ::)
hey, I thought my really old (2nd gen.?) 5's & 6's had a defect, but under a loupe the smudge becomes "FUJI"
they're tall Match Guides, though, w/ plenty leg-room for branding
They really weren't as much trouble as I thought they would be. I guess over thinking can have that effect. In a way the bigger ones were almost more difficult, because it was a much longer period of time you need to stay focused on even tension.
10 guides, only 15 restarts. I really expected worse. Finished wrapping in about 2.5 hours.
I think it's quite visually clear this is my first build. But i really expected worse. But is there a way to deal with those tag ends that I should have cut closer?
The last pic was both the first and worst wrap job. I may redo that one.
Gonna epoxy tonight after I get one of my coworkers to lend a set of eyes to verify I have them all lined up. I wanna try this thing this weekend.
For the tag ends put the first coat of finish on then when dry shave them off with a razor blade. To check the guides look down the rod with the guides on the bottom, you should have equal amount of guide sticking out from each side.
??? What did you use to cut the thread with , a hacksaw blade or scissors ?
Don`t get to impatient , you can do better ... We all have redone a few guides wraps . Use a sharp razor blade to cut tags off . Fix the last turn on the stripper guide "cross over " the rest looked good that i can see .
Yes you could put finish on and fix / cut the tags , but this is not a 10 dollar stick your playing with...........
Like others have said you can knock the thread off with a razor blade between coats. I've dug my thumbnail in and then trimmed the tag end with a new razor blade pushing against the nail, very lightly. Do you have a motor to spin the rod or are you gonna spin by hand?
Quote from: Swami805 on March 04, 2021, 03:54:19 PM
For the tag ends put the first coat of finish on then when dry shave them off with a razor blade. To check the guides look down the rod with the guides on the bottom, you should have equal amount of guide sticking out from each side.
I've been doing roughly that approach for aligning, I just want a 2nd opinion. I think its my eyes that are crooked ???
And the plan is to only do one coat of epoxy. I got the flex coat 'light' version, and the goal is to not add any more weight than the absolute bare minimum needed for adhesion. In general I've never been a fan of the "high build" style. To each their own but that ain't me.
Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 04, 2021, 04:15:00 PM
??? What did you use to cut the thread with , a hacksaw blade or scissors ?
Don`t get to impatient , you can do better ... We all have redone a few guides wraps . Use a sharp razor blade to cut tags off . Fix the last turn on the stripper guide "cross over " the rest looked good that i can see .
Yes you could put finish on and fix / cut the tags , but this is not a 10 dollar stick your playing with...........
Nah, I used a rusty butter knife.
But really I was using a brand new exacto knife. I was just scared to bring the blade too close to the wraps. Apparently too scared.
You're right, though, its a $30 rod. 8)
But it's not a lamiglas or something.
I'll likely redo that first one, and ill try to straighten out the wrap on the stripper guide. But in general I'm looking at this as a functional rod not a wall hanger. So I'm probably just gonna roll with the rest of it as is. If it starts to really bug me I'll use it as motivation to do better on my next build. Or just cut em off and redo it a few months from now.
Quote from: thrasher on March 04, 2021, 04:29:04 PM
Like others have said you can knock the thread off with a razor blade between coats. I've dug my thumbnail in and then trimmed the tag end with a new razor blade pushing against the nail, very lightly. Do you have a motor to spin the rod or are you gonna spin by hand?
A certain forum member who will remain unnamed was generous enough to give me a rod dryer they had built. Otherwise I would have built my own.
I found the easiest way to start the wrap on the micro guides was to use a super thin piece of masking tape as several of you wonderful folks had suggested, and to get the first wraps to lock down I started it with a few inches of the tag end through the ring of the guide. Frequently the first few wraps started like a quarter inch lower than i wanted, so i just scooted them up. And each micro guide has 2 loops of the nylon thread around the base of the head. That should discourage it from pulling out. I had to pull really hard to get it to come out when i tested it. Likely far harder than it would take to snap the braid first. I think they'll be secure.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 04, 2021, 03:10:13 PM
They really weren't as much trouble as I thought they would be. I guess over thinking can have that effect. In a way the bigger ones were almost more difficult, because it was a much longer period of time you need to stay focused on even tension.
10 guides, only 15 restarts. I really expected worse. Finished wrapping in about 2.5 hours.
I think it's quite visually clear this is my first build. But i really expected worse. But is there a way to deal with those tag ends that I should have cut closer?
The last pic was both the first and worst wrap job. I may redo that one.
Gonna epoxy tonight after I get one of my coworkers to lend a set of eyes to verify I have them all lined up. I wanna try this thing this weekend.
what were you using to keep tension on the thread? a book? a DIY thread tension?
the wrap job on the last pic seems more problem on the tension of the thread, telling this because you said "in a way, the bigger ones were almost more difficul because it was a much longer period of time you need to stay focused on even tension"
if you had any thread tension you wouldnt have to "focus" on it, the thread stays tensioned as even and for the time you need it, 2 seconds, 45 secods or 2.5 hrs.
I dont know what you are using to wrap the thread but you seems to be on a hurry to "use" your new custom rod, get one of this basic wrapping stations from CRB and it will help you to control the thread tension a lot or check some of the hundres of DIY wrapping jigs on the web
https://www.amazon.com/CRB-Advanced-Hand-Wrapper-System/dp/B08NTXN8F5
by the way, IMHO normally you had to wait at least 4 days or 5 to let the epoxy to completely cure and be able to use the rod on a normal fishing day (rest the rod on the car, drop it on the soil or branches, etc, ), that its what I say to my friends, actually depends on the weather, epoxy brand, amount of epoxy used, that amount of time can vary from 2 days up to 5 or even more, Im considering the rod is ready to use when you try to clip the epoxy with your nail and its really hard but you are only use the rod to test it and make some casts you are good to go
QuoteA certain forum member who will remain unnamed was generous enough to give me a rod dryer they had built. Otherwise I would have built my own.
Very cool of that unnamed person, always amazed of the generosity of this forum!! My first dryer was a rotisserie motor that went out on me just after I finished applying resin and had to turn by hand, not fun ;D
:) If you are question your shooting eye , put the reel on ,thread the guides and use your spit shot for the load .
Prop the stick and look at each guide .....
Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 04, 2021, 07:12:09 PM
:) If you are question your shooting eye , put the reel on ,thread the guides and use your spit shot for the load .
Prop the stick and look at each guide .....
Man It's crazy, I've got great vision but I legit think my eyes are crooked. I can put em in the same hole at 20 yds with my old S&W 65-2 that I hot rodded, or at least I could 5 years ago. but if you put a few frames on the wall at slightly different angles and ask me which one is level I'll give the wrong answer 10 times outta 10.
That is a good way to test. My coworkers agree I have them dead straight as they are but i know once the epoxy is on, its a done deal. So I'm double checking as much as i can.
Fix your tag ends before you epoxy or you'll regret it later. You can get rid of a little of the end carefully searing them with a lighter. It will be interesting to see how you like one coat of Flex Coat light. One coat of that stuff won't give enough thread protection for me.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 04, 2021, 08:32:22 PM
... One coat of that stuff won't give enough thread protection for me.
I was about to post something related to that but Jason also posted
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 04, 2021, 05:37:04 PM
In general I've never been a fan of the "high build" style. To each their own but that ain't me.
so, I didnt posted anything, I better wait to see what the result of the Flexcoat light version with just one coat on Jason's rod, well, depends on how generous is Jason on one coat, one coat could be as thin as water specially if you apply any heat to the epoxy by alcohol torch, heatgun, etc or one coat could be thick if you apply too much.
I dont like to feel the threads after epoxy them, if I can still feel any at any place, I apply another light coat.
I have nothing to compare it to, not having built a rod before. But if I feel it's insufficient I can always add more. If its not ready for Sunday bummer but not the end of the world.
My understanding is that the intent with this stuff is to glob it on and wait a few moments to start spinning, so the excess will run down and you remove with a dry brush. I want it to soak in fully but I don't want any more weight than I need.
This thing is crazy light as it sits now. If i can maintain that I'm a happy camper.
Just put one coat on for Sunday , after that then deal with it ..
By now a lot of us are remembering that time that we know we doing something not quite right ,but we are going to do anyway..... ::)
Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 04, 2021, 11:41:09 PM
Just put one coat on for Sunday , after that then deal with it ..
By now a lot of us are remembering that time that we know we doing something not quite right ,but we are going to do anyway..... ::)
Well put. I'm fairly self aware. Of the bad decisions I've made in life this is among the least permanent. Figure worst case scenario I gotta redo it.
I've been building (and using) this thing in my head for the past 2 months. I'm already planning the next (re)build. I just want this one finished.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 04, 2021, 11:55:27 PM
........ I'm already planning the next (re)build. I just want this one finished.
oh oh, down to the rabbit hole he goes !!
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 04, 2021, 10:17:35 PM
My understanding is that the intent with this stuff is to glob it on and wait a few moments to start spinning, so the excess will run down and you remove with a dry brush. I want it to soak in fully but I don't want any more weight than I need.
That should depend on the speed of your drying motor. If it's slow like mine it will start to concentrate in one spot and drip if you glob it on too heavy. I've never been successful trying to do it that way. For me, I get better results applying, smoothing and tapering each wrap and then move on to the next one.
Quote from: steelfish on March 04, 2021, 09:30:55 PM
...specially if you apply any heat to the epoxy by alcohol torch, heatgun, etc
cheap me was thinking of making a warmer for epoxy and such, out of a busted drip coffee-maker
I'd estimate the hot-plate temp. doesn't get above 95*C (200*F ballpark)
probably much lower, w/ less surface contact... lower, still, suspended above hot-plate
is that a good temp. range?
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 05, 2021, 02:25:18 AM
That should depend on the speed of your drying motor. If it's slow like mine it will start to concentrate in one spot and drip if you glob it on too heavy. I've never been successful trying to do it that way. For me, I get better results applying, smoothing and tapering each wrap and then move on to the next one.
What is the ideal speed of a dryer. I have 1 rpm and 5 rpm gearmotors.
The 5 rpm will be better one .
Personally, I prefer to get a reasonable amount of resin on a whipping and guide, sufficient to know that the resin has worked its way under the foot/feet fully, to act as a bonding agent with the blank. The gentle heat to allow any trapped air to escape, and to assist with removing excess resin. It is a balance between too much and too little.
When we have to repair any guides on a rod that we have built, I always feel very satisfied when I see a full bed of resin under the guide.
Quote from: Jeri on March 05, 2021, 06:15:37 AM
... When we have to repair any guides on a rod that we have built, I always feel very satisfied when I see a full bed of resin under the guide.
You should. Took me a while to get where I was comfortable that I was achieving this... Jeff
Done. Spun it all night last night, was still a bit tacky this morning. Left it out in the sun a few hours now it's rock hard.
Visually i love it as is. At least with regard to the quantity of epoxy used. I globbed it on, warmed it up to help it soak in, and wiped off the excess. I'll go fish it a bit and decide if i feel like it needs to be stronger.
I. Am. So. Freaking. Excited!
Pretty cool that you like it & excited about using it. 8)That's all that really matters. If you think you're excited now wait until you hook into your first fish with it! ;D
Good going Jason. It looks great.
Thanks Jason, it looks good, glad your happy, did you place any thread preserver on the cork, I like to place one coat on the cork, dont take long to dry, hopefully some one else might like to comment about that, cheers Don.
Looks great Jason!!!!!
I'd love to start wrapping rods but I'm too much of a perfectionist and all I would be able to see is my mistakes instead of looking at the total project......
Quote from: pjstevko on March 05, 2021, 08:07:54 PM
Looks great Jason!!!!!
...... and all I would be able to see is my mistakes instead of looking at the total project......
thats me. :-\
until many rodsmither folks told me that's kind of normal, you see your "mistakes" because you made them and know where they are but 90% of the persons wont see them or even find them; next day I started to LIKE my rods
@Jason, that looks pretty cool, looks like you got what you wanted on the threads, just enough epoxy to keep the thread secure.
Im with Tommy , wait till you catch your first fish with that rod, it will feel like the best fishing rod in the world.
:) We all start from some were , and learn from making mistakes ,and we will make mistakes until we die , so jump in the rabbit hole . ::)
I'm disappointed to say it was casting better before I wrapped it. I have no idea what went wrong.
Still catches fish though.
;) I bet he bent the stick pretty good ...
Plus 1 guide change it any ? Or you over thinking about casting ......
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 06, 2021, 04:37:06 PM
I'm disappointed to say it was casting better before I wrapped it. I have no idea what went wrong.
see if that's true w/ lure-weight closer to the blank's max & calm weather
I'd guess the tiny running guides are too short:
more distance-robbing occasional grazing contact w/ blank during a cast
(esp., w/ smaller terminal weight, silky braid and windy conditions),
but, also, better sensitivity & control working a lure w/ line fairly taut
everything's a trade-off
Yeah this rod definitely goes past 120° bend. The jack got me bent preet good but not compared to what came next. I hooked a probably 30"+ red but he got me hung up on a piling while I was palming the spool. This blank is plenty tough. The dang dolphins scared everything away. And now it's pouring. Hopefully it'll calm down in a bit.
Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 06, 2021, 04:49:49 PM
Plus 1 guide change it any ? Or you over thinking about casting ......
Line tracks the bend of the rod way better with that 10th guide. And user error is what I thought initially, and still consider it a possibility. but it might not be the only issue.
I found myself wondering if the issue is line rubbing on the wraps. Potentially since they're not a smooth oval like some of you guys do it. I may need to smooth it out a bit. I just worry more height might be worse. I'm gonna try to do some slomo video and see what I can see.
For what it's worth though, I expected sensitivity but I'm still blown away by how sensitive it actually is.
Try the split shot again , you were throwing a honest 40 yards ..
Check the tag ends ,that may stand proud with epoxy in the path of the line or a forhan locking thread ?
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 06, 2021, 05:43:23 PM
Yeah this rod definitely goes past 120° bend.
That's no the rod's fault It's up to you to keep the tip angled 90* from the butt so you are transferring the load and fighting the fish lower down in the rod.
I put the same split shot on, topping out around 25-30 yards.
Quote from: oc1 on March 06, 2021, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 06, 2021, 05:43:23 PM
Yeah this rod definitely goes past 120° bend.
That's no the rod's fault It's up to you to keep the tip angled 90* from the butt so you are transferring the load and fighting the fish lower down in the rod.
I wasn't saying it as a bad thing. The rod can take some abuse is all.
Edit: I'm hitting 40 yds now that I'm not casting like a moron. It happens.
That rod... well... that Dog Will Hunt. You could put another layer of epoxy. I would not. I'm just glad you posted your work & am even more happy to hear your excited about it... Jeff
Well done with completing your first rod build, and it seems to work; though there have been some hiccups along the way.
Tag end: I prefer to use a scalpel rather than a craft knife, the blades are thinner and much sharper. Once the whipping is complete, hold the tag end at 90 degrees to the blank and slide the scalpel blade own the thread - a bear rocking motion will clean cut the tag end at the blank, without fear of any damage to the blank. Then burnish and you have a very clean run of whipping over the guide, and evenly spaced threads.
Thread Tension: We prefer to mount all our bobbins of thread on small spools (typically 100 yds), and then mount the spool in a fly tier's bobbin holder - this avoid un-necessary skin contact with the thread, and maintains constant tension, without external mechanisms. The skin contact issue, is to avoid skin oils getting on the thread, which like silicone can affect the setting of resin.
You wondered about the performance initially, then found latter that it perhaps wasn't as bad as you thought. This may cause you to wonder every time you use the rod, whether there might have been more potential distance in the build. This comes about because you skipped a step in the build process - dry testing. Most casting rods builders will dry test rods before deciding on the final placement of guides. Some surf casters in the UK even will carry on fishing with guides just taped onto the rods for weeks or months, with high tack tapes. The value of dry testing is paramount, as it gives you the option to fine tune the guide spacings to suit that particular blank. We have some new blanks coming to us in the next week or so, and all will be dry tested before they even see some thread, just to get optimum casting performance organised. This is a common mistake in rod building, the enthusiasm to 'build' - and perhaps not wrong, but misses out on a lot of potential options. It also highlights the possible flaws in building to pure 'recipes' as suggested by some folks - sometimes a small change in the 'recipe' can give huge improvements.
Mistakes and errors are all part of the learning curve, and help us develop the skills, as well as how to correct mistakes in the future.
Glad that you have enjoyed the experience, now unfortunately starts the addiction phase ................. ;)
Aaaand I've already moved on to the next project. It really is a rabbit hole. Ive stripped the guides off a 2 piece 5'6" 4-8# ugly stick. I actually kinda like the action but the guides are garbage and one of them is 15°+ out of line from the rest. I have that set of alconites that didn't quite fit on the other rod, they fit just great on here. Yes, I am polishing a turd. But man that turd casts like a champ now. Gonna try to have it ready for service for my mountains trip. Figure it can be strapped to the side of a backpack or something. Stripping the old guides, sanding the blank, and spacing the new guides took about 2 hours. You can still see a bit of the epoxy where the old guides were. But then it is called an ugly stick. Is there an easy way to get rid of the remaining epoxy? I really don't care that much, it's called an ugly stick for a reason. But if it's an easy fix I'd fix it.
And Jeri, I was comparing the performance with the guides taped to performance after wrapping. I did not test between wrapping and epoxy, maybe I should have.
The wind has been too strong to meaningfully test how it handles an unweighted rubber worm (the primary intended use for the rod). With 15mph tail winds one may be tempted to think those long casts are the norm. I want a fair test. Worst case scenario I'll order some size 6 guides and rewrap. No big deal.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 09, 2021, 09:19:21 PM
........Yes, I am polishing a turd. But man that turd casts like a champ now.
nothing wrong with that, specially if you like the action of the blank
I changed the guides on two or 3 of my personal factory rods and they feel different, line goes more smooth when casting and specially when retrieving the line, also doesnt hurt to put your color of choice on the guides to make a rod look like a custom rod.
this Tica UMGA 7ft surf rod have a great action and it was missing some guides when I bought it, so I changed the guides for some Titanium and Carbide ring, those guide might worth more than the rod but now the combination of the guides, colors and action of the short surf rod make it a great rod to stay
this is the regular cheap guides the rod had and the ones I installed later .
more about this rod here https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=28392.0
same deal with my musky rod and Mario Bros themed rod, this one have a composite blank but it also had regular welded wire boat guides (I hate those), So I cut 5" from the tip and 6" from the butt and made me a short "panga rod" with TW spiral foolproof guides, now the rod feel stronger but still with some flex on the tip https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=31101.0
??? You are getting impatient again ..... Take the time to clean off the remaining epoxy with a razor blade 90 degrees to the blank . Just rub it back and forth ,it will come off . Just remember the guides don`t have to go back in the original place . Ugly stik , it`s up to you to make it shine now ..
After removing the scar left behind by the old guides there will still be a shadow where the clear coat finish has been scraped away. On really old rods with brittle varnish finish I have scraped the entire blank as Joe describes. Epoxy will not come off as easily. After scraping you can lightly sand to even everything out. But, you will then have a matt finish and will feel obligated to clear coat the entire rod again after it is wrapped.
I actually ended up moving the bottom guide up a bit on my first build. I had made some last minute adjustments to position (read: it fell off while wrapping and I had to ballpark it and got it wrong). think I actually did too good a job removing the epoxy because I couldn't find the mark from where it was previously. So I had to trial and error it to find where it should belong. 90° razor scrape followed by some 1000 grit sanding and it was good to go.
A combination of that, and just getting a bit more practice casting such a light rod (I really didn't expect it to be that different!) I'm now throwing free line soft plastics ~45yds , and heavier lures a bit further.
In other news I caught my first bass on it today. Decent lil fella. The jack was more fun though.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 26, 2021, 01:01:54 AM
... I'm now throwing free line soft plastics ~45yds , and heavier lures a bit further.
In other news I caught my first bass on it today. Decent lil fella. The jack was more fun though.
An honest 45 yards with lite fake baits is very acceptable. For an ultra lite combo 8' & under, set up to fish & not just cast, any cast approaching 50 yards or more is stellar ... Jeff
Off my dock in saltwater fishing I use the Quantum Smoke rod the has the tiny micro guides. It cast like a dream but I'm using light jigs and lures. 1/4 ounce is normal. I need to be able to cast two docks down which is about 100 feet. With the wind helping me! The reel is a Sustain 2500 with 15lb. Power Pro Maxquatro. It's the thinnest braid they make.
I finally got to use the rod in saltwater again, tossing very large free line shrimp again. And to my dismay I was casting like crap again, seemingly releasing way early and seeing el shrimpo go skyward. when I thought I'd figured it all out by now. 2 hours before I was throwing soft plastics like a dream. But I believe I've determined the problem, though I'm open to the idea that I'm now wrong in a different way.
When I bought the blank it had no info. No brand, no line, lure, or power rating. I just liked the feel. I think the answer is its even lighter of a blank than I'd realized, and a large shrimp may be above the suggested lure weight. So at what my muscle memory tells me is the correct release angle is actually way early because the rod so loaded. Inertia, etc.
I'm thinking I'd rate it for 1/16th oz - maybe 3/8th oz ? 1/4 oz seems like the sweet spot.
Got it out far enough to land its first snook though. Didn't have my tape but i know it was <2'. Still super fun to fight it though. I really do love this rod.
Have you tried a popping cork with that stick yet , it may help with the casting .
Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 31, 2021, 03:38:47 PM
Have you tried a popping cork with that stick yet , it may help with the casting .
No I find with snook the trick is to minimize your terminal tackle. I catch more snook on free line shrimp and a flouro leader than any other configuration. They see anything unnatural anywhere near your bait they get skittish.
Also if the problem is a large shrimp is potentially too heavy to cast properly, wouldn't adding more weight (the popping cork) make the problem worse?
8) Key words If the problem is ............ ::) Try a coulp dry casts and see .
One of the joys of being so new at this is not being particularly attached to any given idea or explanation I come up with. I just assume I'm wrong and sometimes get pleasantly surprised otherwise. I'm certainly open to testing alternative theories.
2 hours before I was throwing soft plastics like a dream.
a large shrimp is potentially too heavy
Try a smaller shrimp or start weighing you baits to test the theory ......
That's a good description of what it feels like to overload a casting rod. A medium shrimp, 31/35 head-on, will weigh a half ounce. A jig or plug is made to be aerodynamic and cast well. A shrimp, not so much.
hydrodynamic is fairly aerodynamic, if you rig 'em to fly the way they swim
...however, that may not be best for presentation/hook-set
play around w/ different hook styles, shank lengths, tandem hook rigs,
PVA string (water-soluble in minutes), soft copper rigging wire, rubber bands, etc.
to get the best bait position for both, casting & hooking
If you run the hook just under the rostrum (horn) they dive. If you put the hook through the last abdominal segment they swim up. They will cast about the same.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 04, 2021, 08:32:22 PM
It will be interesting to see how you like one coat of Flex Coat light. One coat of that stuff won't give enough thread protection for me.
6.5 months and lots of abuse later I figured I'd follow up on this. I have gotten line broken off on fish way bigger than this rod should target, and bent it past 120° a few times in heavy fights that I've won. It's fair to say I have adequately put this rod and its guides through its paces. Ive seen no problems whatsoever, and nobody who has ever fished or rode in a vehicle with me would ever tell you that I'm particularly careful with my rods.
I can't vouch for performance in heavy offshore applications but for heavy freshwater and light saltwater use: one thin coat of epoxy for guides on an ultralight is adequate.
Jason, Epoxy is not for add strength to the wrap of the guide but to protect the thread from regular nicks, scratches, etc that might weaken the guide wrap and lose a guide by fighting a bigger fish or by a small hit and ruin your fishing day, if you want more strength for a heavy saltwater rod you add a second wrap on the same guide (triple wrap = underwrap and 2 overwraps) and regular epoxy just to cover the thread and have a smooth finish.
your current wraps on those guides will handle weight way above of what your blank can handle, long time ago rodsmithers were using plain varnish, marine varnish or urethane instead of epoxy resin to protect wraps and they handle fish just as good but after some years they become brittle and the thread turned fluffy and weak.
I have restored few light rods that used varnish (or a pretty thin coat of thinned epoxy) on the wraps to keep the weight to the minimum, this next rod is 15-20 years old, so, it was time to do a complete restoration job.
PS: Owner told me he fought a 120# sturion with that rod