Can I use citristrip on a painted graphite rod blank? Or is it sandpaper and elbow grease only? Any other safe chemicals?
Different rod, related question: my shimano teramar has that cool marbled finish. But I'm stripping and redoing the guides. Should i do anything differently to avoid ruining the marbled finish? Also that rod has definitely gotten a clear coat after wrapping. The guides will likely go to different locations. Should i plan on removing all the clear coat to make it uniform, or can i somehow fill in the spots where the old guides were? Do I need to worry about there being clear coat already there below my new wraps?
I love the action of the rod but now that I know how wonky the guides are I can't bring myself to use it til I fix it. I'm not a person who needs things to be perfect, just mostly right.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 30, 2021, 06:33:19 PM
I'm not a person who needs things to be perfect, just mostly right.
Im not your guy here, since I rebuild my rods for make them better on function and appearance I like to get them done the best possible, so I would wetsanded, NO grease or oil of any kind or any chemical that might affect glass or graphite on my rods before and while working on them, and painted them, 2k clear on them and leave the blank as factory before installing the guides.
there are few options to put new finish on painted blanks but none has the same durability and hardness of 2k
I must admit that I have restored cheap rods just installing more guides and sanding a bit where the factory guide was before without painting the blank or having it 2k clear on it, they just work much better and 90% of the person wont mind or even see the mark where the factory guide was installed (mostly because the blank is already with some boat rash or scratch from regular use on rock/beach, etc)
Dont get me wrong I'm not saying I'm gonna half #### it. But I know some folks who wont bother doing something if it can't be perfect. I dont need perfection. I'll be happy with 'works great looks really good."
I bought this from a charter captain. The 'perfect appearance' ship has sailed.
And if the finish has to be removed entirely from just below the largest guide, so be it. That might still look cool.
The short answer is you can leave the clear on and guide it than apply more epoxy .
Picture will help
Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 31, 2021, 02:03:13 AM
Picture will help
I'm sorry you'll have to be more specific.
Sorry, I'll be serious. I like the finish. If I can save it I want to.
I thought you were going to post a picture of water coming out of kitchen faucet ? ::)
I would try wiping on water base polyurethane to fill in the scratches for a quick fix . It`s not as heavy as epoxy .
Nice snook.
Quote from: oc1 on March 31, 2021, 05:45:27 AM
Nice snook.
Thanks. First one on the rat rod. He was a lil fella but he sure gave the rod a good bend.
I will generally make a rod look as nice as I can reasonably make it without going to extremes. I fish my tackle hard, on small boats, on big rocks so some scratches and damage is par for the course. I don't like to spend a week making it look gorgeous, only to damage it again the following week!
There is one thing, I have always believed that some coating on a blank does give the blank a little protection against minor scratches and dings, so I usually do coat it.
Even for a mat finish, I'll coat it and then water paper it with 1000 grit taking care not to do too much.
I pulled the guides, minus the bottom two which seem to line up right and the tip which I dont know why I'd need to remove for this rearrangement project. I sanded it mostly smooth but you can still see where the guides were. Also I sanded a bit more than necessary because all that clear coat is added weight that probably also affects the rods action. There's still likely enough in place for protection. I just gotta polish it back up.
But honestly the line tracked the blank remarkably well for a factory rod, I may end up using the same locations for the running guides anyway. Probably not, as I'd like to fit one more in there, and there is room for improvement. but maybe.
And I might not wanna admit this, but upon removing all the running guides and placing them next to each other I'm convinced it was an optical illusion and they're all actually the same size. OOPS! Oh well, it'll perform better for it in the long run.
Also, the specs for this rod brag about using gudebrod silk wraps. As such I could tell which guides had been replaced (different, and by that I mean more familiar wraps) and 3 of the 6 I pulled were not original. And also having seen how much of a nightmare it was to remove those original guides, I'd never use that stuff unless it was on titanium guides that will stay in place forever. No thank you. Looked great though.
I could not get a good picture. My camera refused to consider that it wasnt the background i wanted to focus on.
I am trying to decide if I need to move the bottom guide on the teramar. Doing the "table edge" technique the bottom 2 guides look perfectly positioned so I never cut them off. I have been test casting and I'm not experienced enough to judge by what im seeing. So I took some slow motion videos to the best of my ability not having a tripod (casting 1 handed holding phone in the other). Anyone care to give opinions on the line flow? Should the bottom 2 be moved? Btw there was like 15 mph winds that day, that affects it a bit.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Pdn5Vs9R6eQ
https://youtu.be/Ow5a7wLmk5o
https://youtube.com/shorts/Ca7V4e6qlIk
I dont know how to embed these or i would have. Also my phone added the music. I wish it hadn't. Thoughts?
What is the measurement between reel face and first guide ? Are you going to decade that reel to that stick ? Do you have a reel
with a bigger diameter spool to try first .
The line going out to the first guide looks good , hard to say about the first to second . It looked like you had some slap , not bad overall.
If you were to move a guide , i would move the first one closer to the reel face , in 1/2 increments .
The plan is to keep the rod and reel together. I am in fact rebuilding the rod that I bought for that reel. Specs wise its a 10-20# line (according to them) 7'-6" extra fast taper 1/2oz - 2oz lure. The reel is a spheros (SP4000XGSW) with a few upgrades.
As it sits the bottom guide is 23.75" above the spool at top of stroke.
You think the bottom guide should go down? I was thinking upward if anything, but there's no experience behind that opinion.
;D You have slow motion video and a measurement to start with . Now you get to test the theories in or out and take video for proof .
I think that the first guide may be one and a half inches closer , just my guess.
Really nice video. That is a good trick.
I'd be looking to move the first guide away from the reel face, and probably reduce the size of the first guide significantly, but opting for a taller frame guide. Have found that the section of guides that act as the reduction train, need to be quite close together, but the size of the first guide is quite critical in how small it is - to take the disruptive coils from the reel out of the system early.
Just my experience.
is vid misleading? are you not casting naturally, but in a way that can be filmed best (pointing tip up too much)?
is there too much angle between rod & line creating additional choke-point at tip?
could that be causing overall line backup (esp., between stripper & next guide)?
good to exaggerate reduction train insanity for educational purposes,
but for guide position, find a way to film the way you cast in real life
hidden tripod / crouching wife ;D ;D ;D
Thank you all
Definitely not casting naturally by any means. Just trying to do so in such a way that i could film line flow. Actually casting, this thing puts down some distance. I was hitting 80 yds easy with the 2oz weight.
I'll have to get a buddy to film. I find my life is easiest and most enjoyable when my wife isnt directly reminded how much of my free time is spent tinkering with fishing stuff.
Joe says move first guide down, Jeri says move it up. I think that either means its perfect where it is, or I def need to pull it and play with a few positional changes.
:) Phil points out a very good observation on the under hand throw and line speed .
I was wondering how much cleaner the line flow ,would be with speed , or would we see a stack up at the first guide .
cheapest ;D get a dashboard phone holder w/ ball-joint & adapt to breast pocket or cap
1st vid is cool, but it's no help deciding whether guides are out of position,
if you're holding the rod way out of position, throughout the cast
Quote from: philaroman on April 05, 2021, 04:23:19 PM
cheapest ;D get a dashboard phone holder w/ ball-joint & adapt to breast pocket or cap
1st vid is cool, but it's no help deciding whether guides are out of position,
if you're holding the rod way out of position, throughout the cast
Just making sure I understand correctly, there's 3 videos. The one in the middle is the only one that embedded (the other 2 have "shorts" in the URL so it doesn't come in the same so you gotta click to watch them). I thought of all of them, the first one was the most useful, but then again I'm wrong a lot.
sorry, didn't notice links above/below middle vid -- doesn't look like you are pointing rod in direction of line-flow in any
also, combo of all 3 vids suggests line-slap (or close enough to become line-slap if windy)
and I'm w/ Jeri: taller smaller stripper closer to reel & proportionately so for next guide
look into Fuji Match Guides as cheap alternative to KR (esp., older ceramics)
taller, smaller but different leg design & not angled... most are single-foot (BMYOG, BCMYAG, etc.),
but I lucked into really cheap old double-foot, mislabeled as ice-rod guides,
that are totally straight & can be reversed... an older version of BNMVAG:
I thought we were working with the guides on the stick , just thinking how / if they could be rearranged to make the most of the reel selected .
Quote from: oldmanjoe on April 06, 2021, 02:28:20 AM
I thought we were working with the guides on the stick , just thinking how / if they could be rearranged to make the most of the reel selected .
In general this was the goal. Though I did get smaller running guides for it at a minimal cost. Gonna try to start sliding the bottom two around tonight.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 31, 2021, 04:38:30 AM
Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 31, 2021, 02:03:13 AM
Picture will help
I'm sorry you'll have to be more specific.
Just running guides or do we have a selection of stripper ,bumper and choke to play with ...... GEE if you want to play , you have to be willing to take all the toy`s out of the toy box and share ...... ::)
Quote from: oldmanjoe on April 06, 2021, 02:57:43 AM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 31, 2021, 04:38:30 AM
Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 31, 2021, 02:03:13 AM
Picture will help
I'm sorry you'll have to be more specific.
Just running guides or do we have a selection of stripper ,bumper and choke to play with ...... GEE if you want to play , you have to be willing to take all the toy`s out of the toy box and share ...... ::)
I've already been rummaging through the guides I bought for the surf rod I'm building next. In fact I have a set of 6 of more size 6 runners. I keep eyeballing them. But I'm actually really happy with the runners the way I have them now, 4 size 6 preceded by 2 of the ones that came on the rod. It's slightly more gradual of a reduction. I may still switch.
I've been wanting to come down and see you again but I'm house hunting right now and it's nuts.
So I decided to play with Jeri's approach by way of moving the top guide up, and then moving it up again, and I was surprised by how much i like the feel of it. I didn't realize that I could feel the line slap before, and I realize it now because it's gone and I feel the difference. And it's casting pretty nice. Need to get out somewhere more open and see what kind of distances I can reach.
I'm not surprised at what you are finding, however to get everything working properly, whether it is videos or the line flow, you need to be casting at full speed, as line speed is a very critical factor in just how any guide pattern will or will not work.
Have just finished some works on an existing blank that had been factory built, and the client was having lots of problems getting the distance, she was only managing 60-85 meters at full power. We offered her a test cast with a rod that we had built on the same blank, much smaller stripper guide, close proximity transition guides and small running guides to the end, as well as the stripper guide being higher than her previous first two guides - really unconventional, first cast she made was 105 meters, the second with her full power was 120 meters. No line slap, no hint of bunching, and near silent line flow through the guides.
Experimenting with guides, even doing the unconventional can seriously improve matters on any blank. How do you know that the factory got it right?
Quote from: Jeri on April 06, 2021, 06:55:16 AM
I'm not surprised at what you are finding, however to get everything working properly, whether it is videos or the line flow, you need to be casting at full speed, as line speed is a very critical factor in just how any guide pattern will or will not work.
Have just finished some works on an existing blank that had been factory built, and the client was having lots of problems getting the distance, she was only managing 60-85 meters at full power. We offered her a test cast with a rod that we had built on the same blank, much smaller stripper guide, close proximity transition guides and small running guides to the end, as well as the stripper guide being higher than her previous first two guides - really unconventional, first cast she made was 105 meters, the second with her full power was 120 meters. No line slap, no hint of bunching, and near silent line flow through the guides.
Experimenting with guides, even doing the unconventional can seriously improve matters on any blank. How do you know that the factory got it right?
It seems everyone agrees about the importance of full power casting. I will experiment this afternoon.
And it's pretty clear the factory did not get it right. That's the purpose of this exercise. In theory i could get smaller reducers and probably improve the situation but i really wanna use what came with it to the greatest extent possible. Otherwise sooner or later I'll be facing a "ship of theseus" type situation.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on April 06, 2021, 04:15:36 PM
Otherwise sooner or later I'll be facing a "ship of theseus" type situation.
You were warned that opening Pandora's Box of rod building would be problematic.......... ;D
Just as an aside, while you are contemplating trying different positions for your first guide, try casting with the first guide missing, it might just surprise you.
If that stick is a fast tip , he may be able to leave off the big stripper and still have good static test .
First 2 have already been wrapped on in new location, or I would totally do that test. I love experimentation so I considered removing it and doing it anyway but i did an inlay on that wrap and it looks really good (by my standards) so I don't wanna pull it. I couldn't get any useable video last night but I'm quite happy with this new setup. Last night was the first time I've cleared 100 yds on a non-surf rod while testing it throwing a 2oz lead (10 mph tail wind didn't hurt). I may need to be cognizant that this reel only has 150 yds on the spool.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on April 07, 2021, 01:53:41 PM
Last night was the first time I've cleared 100 yds on a non-surf rod
non a surprise on a good balanced combo= weight + rod + line
you might surprise few guys casting much far than them with their long a heavy surf rods, problem is people want to cast 2oz lures on a broom sticks and want to reach 100yds mark or more or use expensive surf rods but dont know how to cast them.
Rod is built. It got epoxy-ed and spun last night. When it's dine curing I'll very excitedly do some test casts. I swapped a reducer guide size at the last second for one I thought would make for better flow, and didn't test it before wrapping. I may come to regret that, but that's part of the fun. And I can always redo it if it fails miserably.
Also is there any way to remove bubbles after the fact without cutting off the guide and redoing it? Got a few surprises this morning.
Slice off the top of the bubble and do a 2nd coat is the only way I know. If you can get the bubble flush that would be best. Bubbles can appear anytime until the expo you sets
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on April 09, 2021, 02:09:33 PM
Also is there any way to remove bubbles after the fact without cutting off the guide and redoing it? Got a few surprises this morning.
with the superlight coating you are trying to achieve what SHeridan described it might be difficult to do without touching the threads but IT is the only way, but dont worry, try that and if you dont like the final job just take that guide off and wrap it again, its a win-win job, either way you will learn something new.
Using a hot air gun to reduce the viscosity can make the bubbles come to the surface and pop before the epoxy sets.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on April 09, 2021, 02:09:33 PM
Also is there any way to remove bubbles after the fact without cutting off the guide and redoing it? Got a few surprises this morning.
can you post a pic of those bubbles? its easier to give an advice when you can see the problem
Pic doesn't do justice. Looks worse IRL. The rest are ok.
did you already scraped it trying to cut the hardened bubbles or it was like that when it dried?
Quote from: steelfish on April 09, 2021, 08:40:23 PM
did you already scraped it trying to cut the hardened bubbles or it was like that when it dried?
This is what i woke up to this morning. I had applied heat to all the wraps last night after wrapping to try to prevent this. Its possible I missed this one. I am itching to test cast it.
I dont see any bubble there, maybe there are they and just dont show on the picture
I would just apply some heat from a lighter to burn those "hairs" or pluffy from the threads, then I would add a tad of epoxy and apply more heat to make it thinner, pretty sure the guide wrap job will look better and still with not much epoxy.
Alright, so if I cast with the spool at thw top of the stroke there's no line slap. If I do it at the bottom, no line slap. In the middle: line slap. Not much, but it's there (edit: optical illusion). But dang this thing casts. 100 yds on a 7'6" rod is a thing now. I kinda suck at casting so I'm pretty happy with that. This was time well spent.
Also I'm liking my curing process. 6 hours on the roller with my AC set at 72° then an afternoon in my hot car (the honda oven) and it's rock solid. I'm probably not the first to think of this.