I am looking for some input on setting up two reels to run 40lb seven strand wire 300FT for salmon trolling with mono or braid backing. This set up will be used with dipsy divers which get the bait down and to the P and S sides of the boat. I have utilized reels such as okuma convectors and some smaller level wind diawas but the pull from the dipsy seems to be taxing on the reels and was looking for some other penn reels that might have a stronger drag and may or may not be levelwind. Dont know how wire works on non levelwinds as far as building up on one side ect? The reels we have used in the past have had drag really cranked down to stop the wire from pulling out from the dipsy effect of pulling down and out to the side. In effect when the fish hits the drags seemed sticky and abrupt by letting out surges of line. I figured I could maybe go off one of your recommendations for an older penn reel maybe higher speed that would fit the ticket if I upgraded with some drags ect.ect. I am running penn 209's with mono on the downriggers and 309's for some lead core (that takes a looong time to reel in). We are catching trout and salmon from say 3 to 30 pounds. Any thoughts would be helpful. Thanks Mark
The okuma 553 hi speed 's' models are a fairly popular for copper wire dipsy's, A penn 320 or 330 might work as well with 4:1gears instead of 6.2:1 like the okumas. I don't think the penns have a titanium nitride coated level wind guide so I don't know how they hold up to wire line. Any star drag reel running dipsys will have the drag buttoned down so it will be a little rough on them. I also don't know if the conturas have a metal hold plate - if they use a plastic one I wouldn't use them, the plastc hold plate will flex under heavy drag loading. Occasionally you can find a convector ss (stainless spool) reel on ebay which was made for wire line but I don't see it on the okuma website this year, Any other great lakes or striper trolling guys have a 2cents worth to add here? Good luk - Jimmer
Holy Steel,
Forget the level wind when using wire if you want your gear to last. As long as you can move the wire with your thumb you'll be fine. I use monel which is a bit stiffer than cable, so you won't have any problems guiding it on. Go with either the daiwa sealine 400hw (has a chromed over spool) or the penn 113hsp (chromed over spool as well). If you need more drag or line capacity go with the 114hsp. Use dacron (won't get dug into by the cable as bad due to thickness) backing in a hi vis color, and connect with a haywire (wire side) to an albright special (dacron side). This will prevent having to use a swivel to kink your wire or corrode with the dissimilar metals. I have 300' of 40 lb monel (.022 dia) and 200' of 100 lb. test dacron with plenty of room to spare. I can usually get away with not winding it with my thumb cause there's so much room left on the spool. If you want to mark your wire let me know and I'll post a good way where your marks can't move up and down the line. With wire there are two ways, but with cable only one way to make them stay on for good. Also, the best advice I can give is to remove the wire and put it on a spare spool in the off season. Spray the crap out of the wire with boeshield (it won't harm dacron, either), and you'll be all set for the next season when you put it back on the reel.
PS- I recommend (on the Penn) to upgrade the frame to a JVariance, accurate, or tiburon. Make sure you grease the drags with Cal's, change out the gear sleeve to stainless, get a stainless yoke, and some newell or accurate gears (if you can find them), and lastly a Pete K. handle (from Alan). You'll will be able to fish whale with it... mine can ;)
If you go with the 114hsp just change out the handle and use c.f. greased washers.
Good Luck,
Dom
Boeshield on the stainless line sounds like an excellent idea, wish I'd thoughtof it. Gotta go spray my lines now.
Thanks for the tips as I am now on a search for some used Senators with chrome spools. I would like if you posted how you mark your wire for knowing the amount out. I will spray it down with Boshield as well. Dont know how a haywire works or braided stainless vs. single strand... was going to use an albright between the dacron and wire. I did do some research on the Okuma 55cvss and though the said they work well some sensed that the senators would outlast the okumas on some corrosion issues that had come to light. The 113 and 114 seem like overkill for the size fish we are catching but that seems to be part of using dipsy divers and stainless wire. Thanks Mark
Jimmer,
The boeshield works great on wire and the spool (before you put on the wire).
HolySteel,
You definitely wanna go with the senator "H" series (red plates) due to the higher gear ratios than the standard senators.
When tying a haywire with wire you can use your hands, or the dubro haywire twist tool- works great and is brainless. With cable you can do it simply with your hands. Google "haywire twist" and you'll find how to do it... it's pretty simple. I will post some photos of my connection when I get home tonight.
Dom
I use a philips (+ blade) round screwdriver to make my haywire twist. Simple and strong.
Holy Steel,
Here's your wire to dacron, and the handle bar you make to snap the wire flush so you don't get jabbed.
Albright knot to the haywire twist. In the last photo you'll notice the mushroom in the end of the line done by a cigarette lighter near the dacron. This will make the dacron melt to ball if you don't touch the actual flame to it. This is done as a backup to prevent the dacron from slipping back through the haywire (not necessary-just precaution) twist.
Best of luck,
Dom
Couldn't fit all photos in one post... here's the rest.
Enjoy,
Dom
Quote from: HOLYSTEEL on January 26, 2012, 04:36:09 PM
The 113 and 114 seem like overkill for the size fish we are catching but that seems to be part of using dipsy divers and stainless wire. Thanks Mark
Mark: I don't see how you can avoid the "overkill." Once you have a fish on I can see how you feel about overkill. However, the strength of the reel is for the dipsy divers. Dom: I knew you were our resident wire expert but I did not expect an explanation with such clarity, style and panache :D. Dominick
Thanks for the excellent pics - could you elaborate on the haywire handlebar tool? I've been using a haywire with a piece of heat shrink tubing over it Tied to 65 lb power pro using the improved bristol as seen in the aug. 2010 sport fishing magazine, I think I'll switch to dacron cuz the wire does dig in a bit especially when reeling in a sprung dipsy under less line tension. - Thanks - Jimmer
Why nor learn to use downriggers and be a sport fisherman?
Quote from: whalebreath on January 29, 2012, 02:42:29 PM
Why nor learn to use downriggers and be a sport fisherman?
[ /quote]
;D ;D ;D ;D
I can only fit 4 downriggers on my boat. Salmon fishing with 3 guys we usually run 9 lines - 4 dr's, 2 dipseys and 3 off boards, with 4 guys we add a full core or more lead flat line and 2 more off boards, unless it's too rough to deal with all that.
Quote from: Jimmer on January 29, 2012, 05:48:59 PM
I can only fit 4 downriggers on my boat. Salmon fishing with 3 guys we usually run 9 lines - 4 dr's, 2 dipseys and 3 off boards, with 4 guys we add a full core or more lead flat line and 2 more off boards, unless it's too rough to deal with all that.
This sounds like too much work for me. Dominick
Whalebreath,
I have to tell ya... I was slightly annoyed by your comment, and took it a little personal even though I don't think it was directed at me. They're many possible reasons why someone might not want more downriggers, but you should re-read Holy Steel's original post if that's who you were speaking to with your comment (why not learn how to use downriggers and be a sport fisherman?)... 1) maybe he doesn't wanna clutter every bit of gunnel (he has some riggers already), 2) maybe he doesn't have the funds, 3) maybe he doesn't wanna put any more holes in his boat, 4) maybe he wants to try something new, 5) maybe he likes fishing with dipsey divers (I do), 6) maybe it works best with the configuration of his boat. There are probably 20 more answers to your question, but whatever they are, they're his reasons. He didn't ask us whether or not it was sporting to fish with wire or downriggers, he simply asked for some reel advice.
So, you don't think it's sporting to use wire?... you have a better chance on bringing a fish to the boat with mono than wire. Yes, the wire is stronger, (still has a lb. test) however there are more obstacles when fishing wire (IMO). Such as: kinks, corrosion, connections, no level wind (must self wind with thumb), break off's are much more time consuming to fix, etc.
Don't sport fisherman (fisherman who fishes for pleasure or in tournaments) throw there fish back unless necessary for proof or weigh in? ... hope all yours go back ;) So, if we use wire and catch and release were not sport fisherman, but if you use mono and keep fish then you are? ??? Okee-do-kee... Well, I suppose I'm not a sport fisherman cause I love my wire and throwing all my fish back :-X
I will try to post the full tutorial on my wire to dacron connections in the next couple days for Whalebreath ;D
Have fun with the wire boys,
Dom