As my hands got older, they are not to fond of trying to hold on to small grips .
Especially on cold wet days when the ring finger wants to trade places with the index finger.
I had a bunch of small wood pieces laying around and started playing with their natural contours . Some of them needed a little contour sanding for a better finger fit and take away some high spots that eased up the pressure points in the palm .
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_10_02_22_4_08_20_363282313.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_10_02_22_4_04_11_36326393.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_10_02_22_4_03_54_36325795.jpeg)
As you can see i had a lot of scrap pieces to try different shapes .
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_10_02_22_4_14_12_363291747.jpeg)
I am going to try different pin points in the grip to see if there is a advantage . Were you see the screws is were i am going to pin it .
Any body else got a hand full of grip or knobs ?
For cranking power, you want to locate the shaft so that you can get the index finger in front of the knob shaft. The idea is to balance the load on both sides of the shaft. It helps to have the knob long enough, and a thin enough diameter to allow the pinky to grip. Otherwise , the rule of thumb for grip diameter for any tool is to use the diameter from an "OK" sign with your thumb and index finger,
If you angle the knob at about 10 degrees or so, the elbow and wrist are kept in a more natural position. Otherwise you have to tuck in you elbow and bend the wrist more.
There is a reason why the Tani handles are set up that way.
For speed winding, you want a round, centered knob that you can hold with your fingertips with the elbow out wide. Heavy knobs also get in the way of speed winding.
The counterbalance is useful for speed winding, but is only practical for smaller, lighter knobs.
Can't help with working around old injuries or other physical limitations, but hope this still helps as a starting point.
-J
Is there an option here, to follow posted content of a member, because this Julerometer made very good, insight on the matter last few posts he made that I`ve seen.
Quote from: Glos on February 10, 2022, 07:38:56 AM
Is there an option here, to follow posted content of a member, because this Julerometer made very good, insight on the matter last few posts he made that I`ve seen.
I don't think so. But, you can click on his name to see a profile and then scroll down to click on "See the last posts of this person". It would be unwise to let any of them slip by.
Thanks for the kind words. We are all learning from each other here. The experts that work on more reels in a month than I will in a lifetime often disagree with my positions. My perspective comes from the science and engineering side and a few forays into making reel parts and other tackle. So please take my contributions with a grain of salt.
And if you are checking out old threads, Steve's (oc1) stuff about making his own cane rods, carbon rods, and re-engineering classic bait casters is definitely worth a read. The sort of out-of-the box thinking that you won't find in any of those inane cookie cutter YouTube bass "expert" videos.
Getting back on subject, I was thinking that if there is some limited hand or finger mobility, it might make sense to have the grips mentioned in my previous post personalized a bit to conform to what is a more comfortable grip position. Visualize taking something like a Tani grip made out of modeling clay and lightly squeezing it. Or if the pinky doesn't like to close all the way, even going a bit larger where the pinky rests. There must be some literature for occupational therapy that covers the value for this approach. Not sure...
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on February 10, 2022, 06:33:27 AM
For cranking power, you want to locate the shaft so that you can get the index finger in front of the knob shaft. The idea is to balance the load on both sides of the shaft. It helps to have the knob long enough, and a thin enough diameter to allow the pinky to grip. Otherwise , the rule of thumb for grip diameter for any tool is to use the diameter from an "OK" sign with your thumb and index finger,
This picture is a example that failed the pin location , and is to thin for me to hold on to .
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_11_02_22_1_22_04_363301913.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_11_02_22_1_22_18_363312066.jpeg)
I am going to try to make a video of the grip shapes that i have now so i can show that even turned 180 degrees the grip is still pleasant to hold
Gentlemen, I am a wood worker and collect wood from the beach. I never seriously considered making reel handles until now. My aging hands tend to go into "claw mode" and need help straightening out sometimes. This has happened when reeling and I have to stop, lift the rod, loosen drag, or compensate any way possible to keep the hook set. If i could keep the crook of my thumb and forefinger in control of a handle, i could stretch out my fingers while still having some leverage and control on the handle. Think thumbhole (dangerous) but maybe something with a hook shape that would allow you to roll the handle around the crotch of your hand while your fingers are stretched out. You'd almost be palming a handle but the crotch of your thumb has the grip. I'm gonna have to make one...too hard to 'splain the ergonomics.
Oh, look at it this way, how would a person crank and control a standard reel with only a thumb and palm? Modified handle.
I have made some real big grips to fill the hand , it keeps the fingers open more and is very comfortable .
They may look disproporsional to the reel but they make the tool work !
I think drift wood would make beautiful reel grips ..
I have this one spinning now on the dryer . It is cut off string from rod building that i saved and glued it to a wood blank .
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_11_02_22_4_58_39_363351353.jpeg)
After the first coat dried i sanded it down some and added a second coat .
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_11_02_22_5_05_13_36336640.jpeg)
This is the second coat .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60dvTYPMsrU
Quote from: Shellbelly on February 11, 2022, 03:13:54 AM
Gentlemen, I am a wood worker and collect wood from the beach. I never seriously considered making reel handles until now. My aging hands tend to go into "claw mode" and need help straightening out sometimes. This has happened when reeling and I have to stop, lift the rod, loosen drag, or compensate any way possible to keep the hook set. If i could keep the crook of my thumb and forefinger in control of a handle, i could stretch out my fingers while still having some leverage and control on the handle. Think thumbhole (dangerous) but maybe something with a hook shape that would allow you to roll the handle around the crotch of your hand while your fingers are stretched out. You'd almost be palming a handle but the crotch of your thumb has the grip. I'm gonna have to make one...too hard to 'splain the ergonomics.
Oh, look at it this way, how would a person crank and control a standard reel with only a thumb and palm? Modified handle.
Don't want to pry into your medical stuff, but if you haven't yet, you might want to check with the doctor and see if what you are experiencing is trigger finger (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/trigger-finger/). A lot of us were brought up to tough it out when it comes to aches and pains, but from what I have read and been sternly told, waiting until things get really bad is often the opposite of what you want to do with repetitive use joint injuries.
The doc could refer you to an occupational therapist. If you get a good one, they will help you figure this knob thing out, in addition to possibly getting the hand to work better. Ask them about switching to an opposite hand reel, gel gloves (like the ones used with power tools) in addition to knob modifications.
Moving on to the theoretical question of a finger/grasp free knob design:
1. I would consider if a thumbhole type knob arrangement might end up requiring a non-ergonomic winding motion in the shoulder/elbow/wrist, and if there might be too much load concentrated on fewer joints. For example the thumb is much better adapted for grasping than opening under load, but you would probably be doing both with a thumbhole knob.
2. If you are doing lots of winding, but not under heavy load, a big round tennis ball size knob can be palmed from multiple angles, and even grasped when necessary without having to close the fingers far. There might be successful compromise, where a somewhat smaller, semi-soft round knob gets the job done.
3. A two part solution might be an option. For example, a cup shaped ring in the palm that would mate with a more normal sized round knob and allow you to entirely palm the the knob (no fingers) when winding under light and medium loads. This palming attachment might be part of a glove or a doohickey with some finger and thumb loops, where it is mostly held in place by pressing against the knob. It can be as simple as a ring, or as complicated as a two part ball joint.
4. I am wondering if a ball shape knob with a ball joint style cup/skin that is grasped or palmed would provide any benefit. Sort of like the two part solution mentioned above, but all built into the knob...
5. For winding under heavier loads, don't just look at the knob. Longer handle arms increase leverage, so you don't have to grip too hard (just be aware that very long arms can stress the handle shaft and gears on some reel designs). A two speed reel is even better in this regard, and they make some amazingly small two speed conventional reels nowadays. Dunno if any are decent for casting distance. But this is a good site to ask those kind of questions :) This can help with winding a finger free knob against high loads, but is also useful for decreasing the finger stress from a traditional knob design.
Good luck, and post anything that you try. No failures in science, only more data!
-J
:) I don`t mind sharing a little medical , I had a Pseudoaneurysm of subclavian artery which resulted in loosing the radial artery in my left arm .
I basically have a 3 minute grip , than i have to open the hand for a refill of blood flow .
So for me if i go with a bigger grip it helps the blood flow . The right hand is just arthritis
I am ambidextrous ,my spinners crank in the left hand and the bait casters in the right hand . If i had to, i would have a half a racket ball duck tape to the handles . ::)
Than there is this addiction to wood ! I can pass it up . A couple minutes with a disk and drum sander and there is knobs .
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_17_02_22_3_18_12_364091412.jpeg)
The spinners are easy to make and replace , if i don`t like it i can change it quick .
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_17_02_22_3_21_11_364141966.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_17_02_22_3_21_24_3641575.jpeg)
I try to keep the knob some what in proportion to the reels . O C 606 and a 167
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_17_02_22_3_19_04_364101930.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_17_02_22_3_20_39_364121584.jpeg)
Those are some purdy knobs, Joe. And thanks for sharing all the experimental versions. At least for me, all the revisions along the way are as interesting as the final product.
Ergon makes some interesting bicycle handlebar grips that have a wing toward the pinky to distribute the load more throughout the hand. Not directly relevant to reel knobs, but thinking along the same lines that you mentioned. If you scroll down to "Ergonomics of gripping" at the link below, there is some interesting reading, even if the handlebar grip problem not quite the same.
https://www.ergonbike.com/en/ergonomics.html (https://www.ergonbike.com/en/ergonomics.html)
Mebbe something useful there.
-J
Joe I wanna see how the hairball grip turned out. I've sometimes thought about doing something similar.
Quote from: jurelometer on February 17, 2022, 06:57:07 AM
Those are some purdy knobs, Joe. And thanks for sharing all the experimental versions. At least for me, all the revisions along the way are as interesting as the final product.
Ergon makes some interesting bicycle handlebar grips that have a wing toward the pinky to distribute the load more throughout the hand. Not directly relevant to reel knobs, but thinking along the same lines that you mentioned. If you scroll down to "Ergonomics of gripping" at the link below, there is some interesting reading, even if the handlebar grip problem not quite the same.
https://www.ergonbike.com/en/ergonomics.html (https://www.ergonbike.com/en/ergonomics.html)
Mebbe something useful there.
-J
Yes it has good hand nerve and pressure point info and illustrations.
I find it amazing how a little sanding makes a big difference on how a grip feels in the hand . Little finger grove helps a lot also
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on February 17, 2022, 02:17:57 PM
Joe I wanna see how the hairball grip turned out. I've sometimes thought about doing something similar.
I have a second one on the dryer now . I will post pictures later when i get them mounted .
Quote from: oldmanjoe on February 18, 2022, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on February 17, 2022, 02:17:57 PM
Joe I wanna see how the hairball grip turned out. I've sometimes thought about doing something similar.
I have a second one on the dryer now . I will post pictures later when i get them mounted .
One on the spinner and one on the jigger .
loving the hairball grips JOe, amazing !!
I will save mine too, I dont thing i would do something like that ever but I will save them anyway LOL
I recondemn you to use spinners, and fast retrieve ones. Because of less moving needed.
How did I miss this? Joe that's awesome.
Very creative !