I've been trying to expand my fishing horizons. I've spent the past few months playing with a baitcaster on and off, and can generally cast with low risk of ratnest most the time. So I'm looking to take it to the next level and get my first conventional. The question is which one...
I have no experience at all "thumbing the spool" for line lay, and I guess I'll have to find an instructional video or something on what the heck that even means. But logically as such I probably wanna look for something with a narrower spool as I hear they're a bit more forgiving.
I also probably wanna find something with enough drag to make it worthwhile. So logically above 20# with 30 or more being ideal.
Easy to work on... Self explanatory. I can work with my abu blackmax and my spinners with little trouble, and my understanding is conventionals are SIMPLER inside on average so that should be ok but still a consideration.
I'd prefer something with a mechanical AR. I'm not anti ARB, and both is great, but I like reliability.
2 speed: do I want/need 2 speed? I don't know please tell me. I seem to have done just fine with one speed spinners my whole life but I know offshore its a different game.
Cost/availability. I don't want to/can't afford to spend an arm and a leg on this. So I'd like to find something either initially affordable or common enough that I could find one used for a reasonable price. I have no strong brand preferences.
I'm looking at a penn fathom 2 star drag, maybe the FTHII15SD? Seems to check a lot of boxes but I'm iffy about modern penns.
Thoughts? Thanks!
Hard to beat a Penn Jigmaster for your first Conventional.
1:4, aluminum spool, HT-100 drags, easy spool switch out when fishing, tough and proven.
Here is a new USA one for $55.
This will get your feet wet without breaking the bank —- and will still be going when any of the new fancy shiny reels that cost many times more —- are in the landfill.
Best, Fred
I have the Fathom FTHII15SD but its a CS and not the SD, basically the same reel but with a knobbymag and better bearings, slightly higher capacity. The mag works good full on. I sold a custom rod to a customer and the same reel. He had never cast a convention or baitcaster and with the mags full on, he never even got a hint of a tangle. The SD you speak of has the dial for the mag which I prefer and I converted mine over to that, the knobby stuck in into my wrist on the retrieve. The mags themselves are the same. I only need to thumb the spool when it hits the water. Really, this reel is nothing like the mag less reels I learned on. It's almost too easy. Laying the line takes practice but if its distance you want, a levelwind just won't do.
Quote from: foakes on March 15, 2022, 02:42:11 PMHard to beat a Penn Jigmaster for your first Conventional.
1:4, aluminum spool, HT-100 drags, easy spool switch out when fishing, tough and proven.
Here is a new USA one for $55.
This will get your feet wet without breaking the bank —- and will still be going when any of the new fancy shiny reels that cost many times more —- are in the landfill.
Best, Fred
That is a great price on a nice reel!
Quote from: foakes on March 15, 2022, 02:42:11 PMHard to beat a Penn Jigmaster for your first Conventional.
1:4, aluminum spool, HT-100 drags, easy spool switch out when fishing, tough and proven.
Here is a new USA one for $55.
This will get your feet wet without breaking the bank —- and will still be going when any of the new fancy shiny reels that cost many times more —- are in the landfill.
Best, Fred
https://alantani.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=34725.0;attach=109429;image
Thats a REEL DEAL IF it is old stock but New Jiggys ae made now in JYNA.
You can't go wrong with a Fathom. If you are looking for a narrow spool I would consider the 12, assuming it has enough line capacity for what you need. The 12 is the exact same reel as the 15 just narrower.
Both the size 12 and 15 come with magnetic breaks, and are extremely easy to cast. I would take the reel to a park, or out to the water, set the break dial to the half way mark (which is way more breaks than you need), and practice casting. Once you make a couple of consecutive casts without any backlash you can then start dialing back the breaks. Continue doing that until you find that happy middle ground between casting distance and backlash resistance.
My $0.02. If you really want to learn how to cast a conventional, and learn how to retrieve line, I would back Fred and go with a basic unaltered cheap Jigmaster or Squidder.
Once you have educated your thumb on casting and retrieving, then you can expand your horizons on any conventional reel, narrowed, wide, magged, 2-speed, all the way to International level. You can then pick up any conventional reel, mentally make a few adjustments, and cast.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 15, 2022, 02:16:54 PMI also probably wanna find something with enough drag to make it worthwhile. So logically above 20# with 30 or more being ideal.
I assume you want a small/medium size conventional reel, not many reels on that size have a real-world usable drag on 30# or more (not binding handle in high drag), many reels on those size barely reach 20# which in deed is pretty high for normal fishing conditions, only high-end reels are compact and with high drag settings but are on the expensive side for many, average $500-$600 dlls, as: accurate, penn torque, okuma mak10, etc, etc
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 15, 2022, 02:16:54 PMI'd prefer something with a mechanical AR. I'm not anti ARB, and both is great, but I like reliability.
2 speed: do I want/need 2 speed? I don't know please tell me. I seem to have done just fine with one speed spinners my whole life but I know offshore its a different game.
the rule of the thumb is two speed reel on small/medium sizes is not needed, but the low speed on a strong fish makes the fight 3x easier, but no need for lower gear if 70% of your fish are 20# or less.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 15, 2022, 02:16:54 PMCost/availability. I don't want to/can't afford to spend an arm and a leg on this. So I'd like to find something either initially affordable or common enough that I could find one used for a reasonable price. I have no strong brand preferences.
I'm looking at a penn fathom 2 star drag, maybe the FTHII15SD? Seems to check a lot of boxes but I'm iffy about modern penns.
arm & leg = expensive = subjective ($300 might be cheap for many and $150 can be expensive for 80% of my friends)
whats your budget for a first conventional reel?
for 1st conventional reel I will recommend a Star Drag reel.
one of my 1st convetional reels for fishing on a boat was a Penn jigmaster 505 and 501, same as the jigmaster 500 that Fred (FOakes) showed you but narrower, they 3x easier to wind and lay than the 500 which is wider. sold them
them moved and got me a Saltist 20H, its smaller than the jigmaster 505 and cast much better, easier to palm and sits pretty low on the rod and cast a mile many guys still use it for surf fishing with 14ft rods from the shore.
similar reels to the saltist are penn 525, penn 535, penn fathom 15 SD, penn fathom 12 SD
another 1st reel is the penn 320gti, pretty strong, pretty light and has a line winder, pretty easy to service, has the same drag washer as the mighty penn 113h.
What is the reels intended use?
(I'm kinda shocked no one else has asked that yet, unless I missed it somewhere....)
Great info so far thanks all. Being how i am, I've already started looking at some of the modded jigmasters on the 'bay, leaning toward a 506 (narrow with ball bearings).
The intended use is likely for a boat rod to do some bottom fishing and/or vertical jigging, though I'll likely also do some surf casting with it, because I do surf casting with most things.
Any thoughts on the FTHII8XNSD? It appears narrower still than the size 12 (as the name would suggest, supported by ratio of line caps).
Price is ideally around $200, though I'm always happy to spend less on used.
The biggest issue I have is availability of parts for any given reel. So many reels come and go and parts become unobtainable. I prefer to stick with reels that have a good track record and easy to find parts for
-Ted
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 15, 2022, 07:01:49 PMAny thoughts on the FTHII8XNSD? It appears narrower still than the size 12 (as the name would suggest, supported by ratio of line caps).
Price is ideally around $200, though I'm always happy to spend less on used.
Keep in mind the 8xn doesn't come with any brakes. It's primarily meant for jigging.
I was gonna respond with a 506HS but I see you already thought of it.
I bought an aluminum spool from Rancan I think, sorry if it is something else. Went to ebay and bought side plates that came with gears and beauty rings, used a 49 for the stand and spacers. I kept it simple but you already know there's a lot of options to upgrade
Several things. "Thumbing the spool" usually doesn't have anything to do with line lay. It instead refers to using your thumb on the side of the spool rather than on the line, to control your cast. Line lay is simple and with practice becomes automatic. Just use your thumb on the line just ahead of the reel, to move it back and forth, causing the line to lay properly. It becomes so automatic that I have trouble using a level wind because my thumb often moves differently from the level wind.
As far as wanting or needing 20-30 pounds of drag, I have to ask "Why"? Your drag needs to be matched to the line you are using (and maybe the fish). 20 pounds of drag is for 80 pound line and above usually. A FTHII15SD wouldn't hold much 80lb. More importantly, you need a smooth drag with as little startup as possible. You need to match your reel to the type of fishing you will be doing. For many years I used Ambassadeur 7000's and TLD15's offshore with no problems. Landed fish over 50 pounds. In fact, if you like lever drags, a TLD15 is a good starter reel 22 pounds of drag at full (15 at strike) and has been around for a long time, is easy to work on, parts readily available, plenty of used ones, and is only about $160 new,
While it is entirely possible to make a well casting lever drag, as a rule they are not designed that way. Even worse with a two speed. If you are loooking for a larger conventional reel that you can cast, you are probably looking at a star drag without a levelwind.
Dimension-wise, a narrower reel is preferred for drop jigging, as you don't have to be as diligent on line lay. For casting, you need the sweet spot between having too much inertia (flywheel effect) from a tall/narrow spool, and too much crosswise line travel from a short/wide spool. If you look at all the better distance casting reels out there, the spool width to diameter ration is something in the ballpark of 1.25 to 1.
Reels with some sort of cast control are handy, but not mandatory. That is what the thumb is for, and you will need to learn thumbing anyways for all the times when the cast control is set too light.
If you are looking at the Jigmaster, the 500/501 gearing is much stronger than the 505/506. Penn took some design liberties to get to a higher gear ratio for the 505/506 that makes winding under load less capable. Neither series are particularly strong when it comes to drag and especially winding under load. Both are capable enough as long as you are willing to fish lighter drags.
Personally, I would look at the Daiwa SLnnSH series or successor SL-SHA, or the Shimano TLD Star (If it is the right size). More capable than stock or hot-rodded Jigmasters. I like to carry as few outfits as possible, and I use these for both casting and vertical jigging on the same trip.
They are also other/newer models from all of the big brands that are all mostly similar, but tend to come with one-way bearings. There is often a range from entry level to premium. The premium models usually have same or similar guts, but have machined Al frames and sideplates, which is not really necessary for the load that the rest of the reel can manage, and is more corrosion prone than "graphite" frames and sideplates. If you go for an aluminum reel, a reel foot that is screwed into place is preferable to a permanently riveted stainless foot that subjects the aluminum to galvanic corrosion that that cannot be completely addressed during maintenance. Internally, star drags without levelwinds are remarkably similar. It is the design screwups as opposed to the innovations that differentiates one from the other. I would shy away from the boutique brand "premium" star drags for this reason.
For vertical jigging, the aficionados want a lightweight, narrow, lever drag reel with zero handle backplay. IMHO, lightweight is useful for more vigorous jigging, the rest is optional. You can jig more easily with a casting reel than you can cast with a jigging reel.
-J
My 2c...
A narrow reel for self-managing line-lay and a good casting conventional are opposite goals.
Don't fear the ARB... anything modern with an ARB with silent backup dog is a whole lot nicer to fish than anything with sprung dogs. Especially if you're jigging - for one, no backplay, the second is you don't have to listen to the reel all day. Consider that basically any modern spinner is using an ARB (probably with no backup unless it's high-end) and they don't fail all over the place.
You don't need that much drag. It's just silly. A rod that would balance a Fathom 15 is going to explode in your face if you put 25lb of drag over it; that's 80lb class drag or at least 50lb class if you're brave and tie good knots. Much over 20lb drag for more than a minute or two is either harnessed or rail fishing territory. The Fathom 15 is a 20-30lb line class reel, you could fill it with 50lb braid and it would arguably have the drag to make use of it but once again, any rod that doesn't feel stupid with that reel on it is not going to have the beans (unless it's a higher-end mechanical jig rod, in which case it will be too short and stiff for enjoyable bait fishing).
It's starting to sound like I want my first 3 conventionals.
And to be clear when I talk about drag desires I'm thinking smoothness. If a reel only has 15# of drag, it ain't smooth at 15# of drag. If it has 25# of drag, it's probably silky at 15# that's what I'm looking for. And if a conventional only has like 12# of drag, well some of my bass spinners have more drag than that. What's the point of going to a conventional for that?
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 16, 2022, 02:26:27 AMAnd if a conventional only has like 12# of drag, well some of my bass spinners have more drag than that. What's the point of going to a conventional for that?
you dont go conventional because they are better/stronger reels, its just a different tool to fish, thats why you always see the same rod by a commercial brand on casting and spinning configuration on every fishing technique as jigging, bait, casting lures, etc.
son guys will never use conventional reels.. ever !
they will get a $1,000 dlls shimano Stella for tuna fishing over a shimano talica 25-II or a penn International 20
if you want to get your fish conventional for bottom fishing and jigging with a strong reel no need to go conventional, get a quantum Cabo 60 spinning reel or a fin-nor Lethal 100 maybe a SHimano Socorro 8000, etc. they will cast also without worries of a birdnest even on a nasty windy day, spinning reels are a trusty tool for any kind of fishing well, maybe you can leave Trolling outta the capabilities of an spinning reel.
Conventional Vs Spinning = Coke Vs Pepsi = Chevy Vs Ford, etc, etc.
now if you really want a conventional reel, be prepared to find in short time that you will want at least 3-5 reels but it seems you already noticed that, one small to cast light lures, one bigger for bottom fishing, another one for jigging and casting, etc. etc
My 2 cents,
-Which one? You mention casting & ratnest, if it's for casting you might want to look at reels that have cast control like the bait caster you have, if casting is a problem. Some Abu & Avet have that feature.
-Thumbing the spool & line lay are two different things, both are arts that need to be mastered to be effective. Avoid reels with level wind feature as they cut down on casting distance drastically.
-RE:Drag -The only small or midsize conventionals I know of that put out that kind of drag are Accurate Valiants, not cheap or reasonable, and lever drag not star drag like the Penn.
-Narrow spools are designed usually for jigging and make casting slightly more challenging, but in the hands of an experienced surfcaster it does just as well or better. My surf reel has been an Avet SG narrow for over a decade.
AR vs ARB - I've got no feelings either way
2 speed? - If you're chasing pelagics from a boat yes, but for casting I don't see any benefit.
Easy to work on? Lever drag reels are easier to maintain than star drags for me, and 2 speed makes it even more complicated.
Cost - You always want to get the best you can afford, and Penn fathoms have a lot of bang for the buck. I have more expensive tastes and a you only live once mentality so I look for the *best* first conventional reel. I think getting out to a shop that has some reels and getting them in your hands will help you fine tune your decision too.
good luck shopping
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on March 16, 2022, 05:45:43 PM... I have more expensive tastes and a you only live once mentality
I have that mentality too but not the wallet to match it ;D ;D
Conventional reels shine the most when you are targeting bigger fish, and/or when you need more line capacity. Conventionals can generally hold a lot of line in a more compact reel. For example: A Penn Slammer 5500 has about the same line capacity as a Fathom 15, yet the Slammer is five ounces heavier. That difference in weight only increases as the reels get bigger (10oz difference between a Fathom 40 and a Slammer 8500).
Also if you have any physical health issues, or are just getting older in age, you can rest a conventional rod on the boats railing to help relieve some of the strain on your arms and back.
I would recommend a Penn 980. It's pretty versatile, a great shore casting reel but can be used off shore and can be had for less than $200.
Quote from: Wompus Cat on March 15, 2022, 03:08:55 PMQuote from: foakes on March 15, 2022, 02:42:11 PMHard to beat a Penn Jigmaster for your first Conventional.
1:4, aluminum spool, HT-100 drags, easy spool switch out when fishing, tough and proven.
Here is a new USA one for $55.
This will get your feet wet without breaking the bank —- and will still be going when any of the new fancy shiny reels that cost many times more —- are in the landfill.
Best, Fred
https://alantani.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=34725.0;attach=109429;image
Thats a REEL DEAL IF it is old stock but New Jiggys ae made now in JYNA.
Yes, Henry —-
It is brand new, made in USA, spooled but never mounted, tools, clamp hardware, wrench, all paperwork, box.
Just received it this morning.
Best, Fred
And I was thinking about that one too. Good buy.
This might not be the thread for it but has anyone attempted a flip down Aperture on a level wind assembly? Something that can be active on retrieval and out of the way for casting. I can't be the first person to think of this.
Sounds like a plan. Never seen that.
Abu and some others came the closest to that, that I know of. Pushing the free-spool button not only disengaged the pinion and got the kick-lever ready to re-engage everything when the crank was turned. It also disengaged the levelwinder. Meaning, the line was still in the aperture, but not engaged with the spool/crank. The aperture would slide back and forth as the line left the spool on a cast, with a minimal of friction, then re-engage when the crank was turned.
The Ultra-Mag(vintage 80's) that I have, even has little springs to keep the aperture from slamming into the sides as it jets back and forth on a cast. But this is a bait casting reel.
The kicker if you're still with me: on the larger Ultra-Mags you could separate the 2-half's of the levelwinder wires and push them simi-permanently to each side for full friction-free casting. They stayed together via a magnet until you physically separated them.
Jason, if you want to try a bare-bones Penn conventional, I have several that a friend gave me. PM me for details, only 1–would I sell, cause it's a nice Surfmaster 100, others work fine, @ N/C.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 17, 2022, 09:25:52 PMThis might not be the thread for it but has anyone attempted a flip down Aperture on a level wind assembly? Something that can be active on retrieval and out of the way for casting. I can't be the first person to think of this.
Ocean City 944 and 945 Kinda does that in that in Free Spool The Level Wind goes in NEUTRAL then back Engaged when you put lever in retrieve.
Bout 1960 ish.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/20463-170322221655-366191022.jpeg)
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 17, 2022, 09:25:52 PMThis might not be the thread for it but has anyone attempted a flip down Aperture on a level wind assembly? Something that can be active on retrieval and out of the way for casting. I can't be the first person to think of this.
I think not reel maker had done something exactly as you said (pretty similar yes but not many out there), because for really long casts you dont want the levelwind, leveling the line with your thumb or index finger it becomes natural after a while.
there are also kits to delete the levelwind system on abu garcia ambadassadeur reels, levelwind on the "new" big low profile reels 300, 400 and 500 size is good because you normally made thousand cast during the day on light rods.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 17, 2022, 09:25:52 PMThis might not be the thread for it but has anyone attempted a flip down Aperture on a level wind assembly? Something that can be active on retrieval and out of the way for casting. I can't be the first person to think of this.
Daiwa T-Wing. You still have to contain the line in the aperture, so that when you start winding, the line is picked up. The T Wing handles this by having an flip up/down aperture that is wide when in the casting position, but narrow in the retrieve. Not sure if the advantage is enough to overcome the added complexity and additional carriage weight. I think the T-Wing is a disengaging (on cast) levelwind, but disengaging levelwinds introduce other issues.
There are many trade-offs involved in making a levelwind that casts well, but also can stand the rigors of high drag. Lightweight vs strong on the line guide carriage and the gears that translate spool rotation to worm rotation, disengaging vs. non disengaging, etc., etc. Once we get into larger saltwater reels with a levelwind, the choices lean more toward strength but at the expense of inhibiting casting distance. Some of these larger levelwinds still cast sort of OK if you are casting a heavy jig, but still are at a pretty big disadvantage.
So many folks have problems guiding the line with a thumb that levelwinds on bigger reels are still very popular, despite all the disadvantages.
Getting back to drag ratings:
1. Stand on a sturdy picnic table and try to lift 15 lbs tied to the line with the rod that you are planning to use. The leverage working against you makes this more difficult than it might seem. Fishermen tend to greatly overestimate the actual drag settings that they are using. Which leads to the next item.
2. Many reel companies flat out lie or cheat on drag rating. For example if the spool diameter is halved, you get twice the drag with the same reel at the same drag setting. A neat trick is to measure the drag with the spool not very full and publish those numbers.
3. You have to also look at maximum winding load (before excessive wear or failure) when considering drag requirements. The more drag required, the more winding load required. My personal rule of thumb is that I ideally want the reel to be able to manage a winding load of at least half of the drag setting, But what is acceptable will vary depending on technique, fishing methods and target species.
Maximum winding load is not something that the reel makers publish. But in general, conventionals fare better than spinners in this regard. I am not one of those jumbo tuna chasers, but I suspect the that the winding load to drag ratio on a quality big game is better than 1:1. That way you can rail the rod and wind away in low gear.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on March 17, 2022, 11:21:50 PMMaximum winding load is not something that the reel makers publish. But in general, conventionals fare better than spinners in this regard. I am not one of those jumbo tuna chasers, but I suspect the that the winding load to drag ratio on a quality big game is better than 1:1. That way you can rail the rod and wind away in low gear.
Controversial perhaps, but maybe the difference between a fishing reel and a winch.
My electric reels have higher nominal lifting power than they have drag... because they're glorified winches.
Quote from: boon on March 18, 2022, 03:45:59 AMQuote from: jurelometer on March 17, 2022, 11:21:50 PMMaximum winding load is not something that the reel makers publish. But in general, conventionals fare better than spinners in this regard. I am not one of those jumbo tuna chasers, but I suspect the that the winding load to drag ratio on a quality big game is better than 1:1. That way you can rail the rod and wind away in low gear.
Controversial perhaps, but maybe the difference between a fishing reel and a winch.
My electric reels have higher nominal lifting power than they have drag... because they're glorified winches.
Once you have finished the cast, the fishing reel is a winch. You have to be able to wind in the fish efficiently when it is not taking line, or it is going to make for a long day :) The more drag you need, the more winding capability you need. But we tend to ignore winding capability.
I understand that some folks think that railing and winding is "cheating" or less "sporting". Don't know about you, but I find these kind of debates tiresome. You can use a reel that is not very capable at winding under load, if you find pleasure in the extra challenge. I won't judge you. I spend a good chunk of my fishing time throwing flies at fish that don't like to eat flies :). This whole sportfishing thing is kind of strange, if you ask me.
-J
This is an interesting discussion about winding load, and truthfully I'm not 100% I understand the distinction being made, because I'm a dummy. Are you basically saying that it doesnt matter if a reel's drag can hit 50# in a lab setting if the gearing cant support winding above 12# without chewing the gears or warping the frame. Am I in the ballpark of the point?
And how does one determine the max winding load of a reel then, without destructive tests?
Thanks to spring scales, I know what 15 and 20# of drag feel like. 15# is just fine for me, above 20, less so. I've only actually used 20# of drag against a fish once and that was to put the brakes on a large shark headed for the barnacles. It was not comfortable, and I don't plan on that being a regular setting for me, though I could see using my LT100 at higher settings against grouper occasionally. I'll ice my sore back while eating a grouper filet and call it even.
Gfish you are too kind. I may have to take you up on that.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 18, 2022, 03:23:52 PMThis is an interesting discussion about winding load, and truthfully I'm not 100% I understand the distinction being made, because I'm a dummy. Are you basically saying that it doesnt matter if a reel's drag can hit 50# in a lab setting if the gearing cant support winding above 12# without chewing the gears or warping the frame. Am I in the ballpark of the point?
And how does one determine the max winding load of a reel then, without destructive tests?
Not a dummy. We are all learning here. There are several threads here from folks that have hotrodded the drags on their reels only to find that they could not fully take advantage of the extra drag because the reel would fail on winding. Sal was one of the few that tested both drag and winding load capacity on reels with aftermarket mods. As you noted, these were destructive tests.
In a nutshell, even the fish is no longer able to take line from the drag, it doesn't always quit pulling, and doesn't get any smaller. The more drag that you needed to stop the fish, the more winding load capacity that you will need to wind it in. Pumping and winding techniques, such as the classic lift/drop and wind, rocking, using ocean swells, etc, can be used to lessen the winding load needed, but it doesn't change the fact that more drag used means more winding load capacity needed. I can understand some debate about the ratio, but not about the correlation.
In terms of how to determine what kind of winding load a reel can manage, it gets a brick tricky. You have to evaluate the design. I would not buy a reel without looking at the schematic.
Generally, spinning reels are at a mechanical disadvantage, compounded by the fact that they often use softer gears to keeep all those big assemblies oscillating and spinning smoothly. Even with the big bucks super spinners, they will tell you that chewed up reel failures are "pilot error" from "winching on the fish", while simultaneously advertising their 50 lb drag capacity ::)
When it comes to conventional reels, you have to visualize the power train from shoulder to spool. failures specific to winding under load are usually gears shredding, anti reverse failing, and handle arm to main shaft junction getting loose. For example, on the classic Penns, the brass gear sleeve to handle hole junction is pretty minimal and rounds off pretty easily under load on the smaller to mid sized reels. Having the main gear shaft supported on both ends by bearings/bushings really helps, as the ergonomics of handle winding causes us to create angular force on the gear/handle shaft, pulling the gears apart if the shaft is unsupported on the handle side. This can break the ends of the gear teeth and also can pull the ratchet over or under the dog. In general, the more shafts supported on both ends (including the dog shaft), the better.
Larger gear teeth allow for more misalignment before the teeth start shredding. I am of the opinion that the material selection (within reason) is less important than the design choices.
There are some other design choices that affect both winding and drag capacity, but I will skip these for now.
If you look at the mostly properly designed but somewhat soulless Shimano TLD Star, you will see a pretty good example of getting most of the design choices right for both drag and winding on a star drag.
QuoteThanks to spring scales, I know what 15 and 20# of drag feel like. 15# is just fine for me, above 20, less so. I've only actually used 20# of drag against a fish once and that was to put the brakes on a large shark headed for the barnacles. It was not comfortable, and I don't plan on that being a regular setting for me, though I could see using my LT100 at higher settings against grouper occasionally. I'll ice my sore back while eating a grouper filet and call it even.
Up and down is a lot harder than horizontal. If you are fishing with a guide on a small boat with high drag, the guide will probably have one hand free to grab your belt loop it it looks like you are going to get pulled out of the boat. Sitting on the rod butt, railed on a low gunnel with 20 lbs of drag, I have been lifted off my feet when going over a swell. Haven't gone over the rail yet, but the possibility has crossed my mind more than once.
But good on you for using a scale. You are way ahead of the game.
QuoteGfish you are too kind. I may have to take you up on that.
Greg is a good guy.
-J
I may be about to meet someone to get an everol 12-20 for $100
Good buy? Good first conventional?
Well i went for it. It's pretty dusty and the previous owner confirms its been in storage for a decade. Still moves quite nicely for how gross it is. This may be my tonight project.
Quote from: jurelometer on March 18, 2022, 05:36:11 AMI understand that some folks think that railing and winding is "cheating" or less "sporting". Don't know about you, but I find these kind of debates tiresome. You can use a reel that is not very capable at winding under load, if you find pleasure in the extra challenge. I won't judge you. I spend a good chunk of my fishing time throwing flies at fish that don't like to eat flies :). This whole sportfishing thing is kind of strange, if you ask me.
-J
You're right, it is an odd pursuit where we seem to deliberately make things difficult for ourselves.
But I think you hit the nail on the head re. "sportsfishing". To my mind, fishing the rail is a very short hop away from leaving a bent butt rod in a rod holder and pinch-pulling a fish in on low gear, Wicked Tuna style. At that point it's not sportfishing any more, it's harvesting meat; may as well use an electric reel so you don't risk spilling your beer while the fish comes to the rail to be gaffed. It appears that the Florida swordfish fishery has mastered this technique, with plenty of videos online of anglers celebrating and getting very excited about how awesomely they watched an electric reel in a rod holder wind a fish in for them.
We use electric reels on bent butts to harvest deep water fish from close to 1000ft of water but I'm not pretending for a second that it's sportsfishing.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 22, 2022, 03:54:34 PMI may be about to meet someone to get an everol 12-20 for $100
Good buy? Good first conventional?
If it's not completely ruined that's a steal and should be a very very nice reel.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 22, 2022, 09:12:50 PMWell i went for it. It's pretty dusty and the previous owner confirms its been in storage for a decade. Still moves quite nicely for how gross it is. This may be my tonight project.
Sounds like a score . You know is all about the pictures !!!!
Everol reels are quality reels, so hopefully with a good service and maybe installing new bearings you will have it ready for many years.
as our friend Joe said, put some pictures of the reel
I'm with joe.......lets see it!!!
Pretty grimy before pics. The dust is the easy part. I'm guessing those are metric Allen key screws?
score!!
big time amigo
I ended up ordering a 506HS after all. Got it for a good price. Might end up with a SS sleeve and Bryans drags and call it a day.