One of the comments posted on another thread was that one improvement over old tackle that has made a significant difference (among others) has been the different materials used for drag washers. The more I thought about this, the more I realized how true this is. After having enough experience, I moved from casting 6/0 Penn Senator and Pfleuger Templar reels to the 9/0 size reels. This was primarily because the brakes could not be applied strong enough to prevent the reel from being stripped of line. The 9/0 Senator has substantially stronger brakes than the old 6/0 and slightly better braking than the Special 6/0 because the gear ratio of the Special was slightly higher.
So, I've come to the point of thinking that I need a reel that will hold at least 200 yards of 80 lb test (mono), which is about what a regular 4/0 will hold. It needs to be light so it can be cast, and the brakes need to be exceptionally strong (30+ pounds would not be excessive). Clearly, the gears and the rest of the reel would need to be able to withstand the torque involved.
I've already ruled out the Senator 4/0 because the brakes and gears probably won't be strong enough. Maybe the spool shaft might be too small too. I've also ruled out the Newell reels because they are just not strong enough (gears in particular). I tried the Penn International 50 and it's too heavy. I've heard others have used various products from Shimano and Diawa (I think). I'm not familiar with those products so I'd like members' opinions on what might be the best reel for my purpose.
Remember, the primary considerations are:
1) At least 200 yards of 80 lb. mono;
2) Light enough to cast (far);
3) Very strong drag, gears, and overall construction.
I'd appreciate your input.
G'day Makule,
I know you ruled out a Penn 4/0, but this is something special:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.msg20871#msg20871 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.msg20871#msg20871)
High-speed S/S gears, S/S gear sleeve, double S/S dogs, upgraded frame, 25-odd lbs of drag etc...
(I have a narrow Tib frame/spool on mine - much like Sal's - which holds about 250 yards of 50lb Momoi.)
But I like the old stuff. ;)
Sounds like a Makaira 10II (among several others) would probably fit the bill more adequately...
Looking forward to others' input.
All the best, Justin
here is something to consider. imagine how far you could cast with 20# mono!!!!! well, 80 # spectra has the diameter of 15-20# mono. a reel the size of a squidder could easily hold 250 yards of 80# spectra. you are looking at a 5 fold increase in performance using spectra over mono. the trick is to find a reel that is the same size as a squidder while delivering 5 times the drag!
hey, how about a makaira 10 that is strung with 80# spectra? set the drag to 24 pounds and go kill something!
Spectra has some very good qualities but abrasion resistance is not one of them. That is the reason I need to use 80 mono. That size/type of line has sufficient tensile strength and abrasion resistance for casting here. Since we're not on a boat, all of the lines are lying fairly close to the bottom and the pull is pretty much parallel to the bottom. If the fish is running and starts going sideways, any protruding rock/reef that the line touches will immediately cut the line since there's so much stress on it. We've also tried running very loose drags but that results in different problems and the undesired end result is the same.
I was hoping that technology had advanced to the point that smaller/lighter reels would have been made to handle the higher strength of the braided lines (meaning, stronger gears, brakes, etc), while still maintaining a size that could hold at least 200 yards of mono (4/0 size). I know that some very strong reels are made, but they either don't have the capacity or are heavy.
The MK10II doesn't have sufficient capacity and the MK20II would be the minimum appropriate size. At that size the weight is about 3 pounds and already too heavy for this old man.
Ooh, do I have a chance? I've been trying to convince my friend to use spectra for years not, but still, only 1 or 2 biters, and loving it. The rigging technique will need to change though. Granted, I haven't fished 80# since high school, but I have done this with 40# set-up.
I run a 50# solid spectra that I splice on a 60# hollow core (for transistion) then splice on my 40# top shot. For casters, this may be known as rub lines. The rub lines are 50' or so long. And that is tied to my leader (via swivel) and then stopper ring to weight line to wired weight (weight with wire in the rear that will grab onto the rocks or dig into the sand). The 50' rub line will takes the abration abuse and not the spectra. Works very effectively and you can adjust the lenght of the rub line based on where you are fishing and how high the coral may be extending off the bottom. Once the run line clears the guides, you have 4 times smaller line flowing through the guides (less resistance) allowing you to cast farther. You could also increase the rub lines to 100# or more also depending on the coral that is round.
Do you know Duane Fukumoto? He's been on Hawaii Goes Fishing demonstrating this techniquie. He uses rub lines to 25', 150-400# test rub lines on his casting gear.
With that, you could use a Makaira 10 or 15 and have plenty of line.
Other benefits is lever drag (adjustable braking) and 2 speed if the fish decides to hold ground, it's easier to pull the fish slowing then pumping.
Great post Bryan - will definitely look into all this in more detail.
Cheers, Justin
In my infinite time, I'll put together my splices. I'm sure others have better splices though.
Alan,
May I borrow your BlackWater Splicing vice again?
a friend borrowed it. i should have it back in a week.
I actually do use Spectra for different applications and feel it's a great product, much better than mono for those things I use it for. For casting, since we're fishing very rocky grounds, it doesn't work. I know that some guys use Spectra for backing but my experience does not support it.
When Spectra lines first came out, I bought a 1000 yard spool (think it was something like 150 lb test) and filled my 9/0 with it. All 1000 yards went in. The very first time I used it, there was a huge shark strike that almost emptied the reel. Although the shark did stop, I could not gain any line and after a while swimming left and right, the line finally hit a reef and I was left with about 100 yards. The cost of the line at the time was over $100 for the spool so it was a very expensive lesson.
During my very early days of casting, we were getting a lot of cut-offs from the line rubbing on the rocks. Often, the rod would go down just once and the rod would come back up because the line got cut off. It happens that fast, sometimes. It got so frustrating that at one point I was using 30 feet of nylon coated stranded wire as the "rub line".
Using a lot of wire did not work much better because once the fish starts going sideways (and they invariably will), the line has the whole length that's out to snag on something and get cut. One cannot correctly conclude that it's just
x number of feet about the hook that will snag a reef and provide that much rub line. The two examples I've provided demonstrate that fact. Consequently, I try to use the most abrasion resistant line I can find, that is still castable and affordable. Hawaii island fishing is "different" and the three top gunners I know all do not use Spectra backing precisely because of what I've described. They all use the 60 to 80 setup.
Incidentally, I do use two-speed reels (50s and 80s) for non-casting applications and find them to be great. My wife will not fish with anything else.
Quote from: Bryan Young on February 08, 2012, 09:07:39 PM
Ooh, do I have a chance? I've been trying to convince my friend to use spectra for years not, but still, only 1 or 2 biters, and loving it. The rigging technique will need to change though. Granted, I haven't fished 80# since high school, but I have done this with 40# set-up.
I run a 50# solid spectra that I splice on a 60# hollow core (for transistion) then splice on my 40# top shot. For casters, this may be known as rub lines. The rub lines are 50' or so long. And that is tied to my leader (via swivel) and then stopper ring to weight line to wired weight (weight with wire in the rear that will grab onto the rocks or dig into the sand). The 50' rub line will takes the abration abuse and not the spectra. Works very effectively and you can adjust the lenght of the rub line based on where you are fishing and how high the coral may be extending off the bottom. Once the run line clears the guides, you have 4 times smaller line flowing through the guides (less resistance) allowing you to cast farther. You could also increase the rub lines to 100# or more also depending on the coral that is round.
Do you know Duane Fukumoto? He's been on Hawaii Goes Fishing demonstrating this techniquie. He uses rub lines to 25', 150-400# test rub lines on his casting gear.
With that, you could use a Makaira 10 or 15 and have plenty of line.
Other benefits is lever drag (adjustable braking) and 2 speed if the fish decides to hold ground, it's easier to pull the fish slowing then pumping.
Quote from: Makule on February 08, 2012, 04:20:55 AM
Remember, the primary considerations are:
1) At least 200 yards of 80 lb. mono;
2) Light enough to cast (far);
3) Very strong drag, gears, and overall construction.
I'd appreciate your input.
how much weight are you casting, and how far does it have to go?
Just about the only star drag reel that might work for your style of fishing would be the Shimano Torium 50 or Trinidad 50. The use of heavy drags means a reel built with lots of metal and that increases the weight of the reel.
I use a Newell 646-3 with 80 lb mono but I can only handle, at most, about 15 lbs of drag on a 13 ft slidebait rod safely, more if I fight with the pole in the rod holder.
Makule, I am also a shore based angler and understand your reluctance to use spectra, especially over rocky grounds. It gets extremely expensive if you fluff a cast or break off. I fish 200m topshot of .55mm mono (around 45lb) over about 500m spectra on my heavy rigs and I have gone through 1000m mono in a few fishing outings recently, hooking up on kelp, rocks, one way slides burning off etc. Putting in long casts with a 14ft rod and 8 oz sinker is scary stuff with spectra.
Why don't you look at getting a Trinidad 50? Put a few 100m of 80lb braid on as backing (say 300m) and fill up 200yds with that 80lb cable for topshot. The drag on a 50 is potent and it actually casts pretty ok, I am sure much better than a 9/0. Alternatively why don't you rather use 50lb 200yd topshot which will allow for more backing and then add about a 10m wind on leader of say around 1.5mm. So if a fish dives for the bricks, or a shark rolls you have that leader helping you. Fit the reel at the bottom, it is much easier for casting and fighting a fish.
Apologies for jumping between SI and imperial, I am from the other side of the Atlantic.
Quote from: Ratchet on February 09, 2012, 06:25:36 AM
Just about the only star drag reel that might work for your style of fishing would be the Shimano Torium 50 or Trinidad 50. The use of heavy drags means a reel built with lots of metal and that increases the weight of the reel.
I use a Newell 646-3 with 80 lb mono but I can only handle, at most, about 15 lbs of drag on a 13 ft slidebait rod safely, more if I fight with the pole in the rod holder.
There we go here's a second vote for Trini/Torium 50
Quote from: alantani on February 08, 2012, 05:08:39 AM
here is something to consider. imagine how far you could cast with 20# mono!!!!! well, 80 # spectra has the diameter of 15-20# mono.
Spectra is also much lighter than mono so it casts further and some of the coated braids have better abrasion resistance. Probably not enough for coral.
Is the heavy mono getting abraided?
If that is the case, Trinis are no longer available in 50s size, so Torium 50 would be the next choice. Upgrade the drags and dogs is a must. Toriums come with silent dogs, and not engage sometime, esp. if there's too much grease.
If you are interested in a lever drag, Talica II 25 or 50. 25 holds about 200 yards of 80# mono and 50 holds more than 300 yards of mono. Spec drag range looks good...could pull you off the cliff at South Point.
Some casters are trying out Penn's Squall LD60. Holds about 220 yards of 80# mono. Spec says max drag at strike is 20#.
By the way, even though you are fishing with 80#, what drag setting are you fishing with?
the Talica is good, there is the possibility though of going flying if you slam down the lever :)
Casting weight varies primarily between 7.5 and 11 ounces. Would like to get minimum of 100 yards.
Quote from: alantani on February 09, 2012, 05:44:06 AM
how much weight are you casting, and how far does it have to go?
The heavy mono will not only get abraded, it will often get cut off.
Quote from: Keta on February 09, 2012, 02:21:39 PM
Quote from: alantani on February 08, 2012, 05:08:39 AM
here is something to consider. imagine how far you could cast with 20# mono!!!!! well, 80 # spectra has the diameter of 15-20# mono.
Spectra is also much lighter than mono so it casts further and some of the coated braids have better abrasion resistance. Probably not enough for coral.
Is the heavy mono getting abraided?
QuoteIf that is the case, Trinis are no longer available in 50s size, so Torium 50 would be the next choice. Upgrade the drags and dogs is a must. Toriums come with silent dogs, and not engage sometime, esp. if there's too much grease.
Friend said he has used Torium 50 and got rid of them because the drag was unpredictable. Backing it off would not release the line until the drag was so loose that it became way too loose. Will upgrading the drag washers eliminate this problem?
QuoteIf you are interested in a lever drag, Talica II 25 or 50. 25 holds about 200 yards of 80# mono and 50 holds more than 300 yards of mono. Spec drag range looks good...could pull you off the cliff at South Point.
QuoteSome casters are trying out Penn's Squall LD60. Holds about 220 yards of 80# mono. Spec says max drag at strike is 20#.
Squall LD60 and Tallica II both look interesting, esp. the Tallica (I like the "could pull you off the cliff at South Point" aspect).
QuoteBy the way, even though you are fishing with 80#, what drag setting are you fishing with?
With the 9/0 size reels, and depending on where it is, the strike drag is set about 20 lb. The 12/0 reel starts about 30 lb. Small 4/0 size is about 10 or more. Again, really depends on where it is.
That's my kind of braking power. :)
Quote from: CapeFish on February 09, 2012, 05:14:10 PM
the Talica is good, there is the possibility though of going flying if you slam down the lever :)
Quote from: Makule on February 09, 2012, 08:06:45 PM
QuoteIf that is the case, Trinis are no longer available in 50s size, so Torium 50 would be the next choice. Upgrade the drags and dogs is a must. Toriums come with silent dogs, and not engage sometime, esp. if there's too much grease.
Friend said he has used Torium 50 and got rid of them because the drag was unpredictable. Backing it off would not release the line until the drag was so loose that it became way too loose. Will upgrading the drag washers eliminate this problem?
QuoteIf you are interested in a lever drag, Talica II 25 or 50. 25 holds about 200 yards of 80# mono and 50 holds more than 300 yards of mono. Spec drag range looks good...could pull you off the cliff at South Point.
QuoteSome casters are trying out Penn's Squall LD60. Holds about 220 yards of 80# mono. Spec says max drag at strike is 20#.
Squall LD60 and Tallica II both look interesting, esp. the Tallica (I like the "could pull you off the cliff at South Point" aspect).
QuoteBy the way, even though you are fishing with 80#, what drag setting are you fishing with?
With the 9/0 size reels, and depending on where it is, the strike drag is set about 20 lb. The 12/0 reel starts about 30 lb. Small 4/0 size is about 10 or more. Again, really depends on where it is.
The Torium 50s come with these slick disks. Looks like a solid carbon disk. I think they were greased. The effect is that they got sticky and like a vaccum, would not release at times. Replacing drags with Carbontex greased with Cal's grease would eliminate this for sure.
Base on your fishing style, probably the Talica IIs would fit your needs. You can always change the preset drag setting depending on where you are fishing, and has the most guts (per spec) than most reels out there in that size and weight.
QuoteMakule, I am also a shore based angler and understand your reluctance to use spectra, especially over rocky grounds. It gets extremely expensive if you fluff a cast or break off.
Clearly, you do understand my situation.
QuotePut a few 100m of 80lb braid on as backing (say 300m) and fill up 200yds with that 80lb cable for topshot.
What is this "80lb cable"?
Quote
Alternatively why don't you rather use 50lb 200yd topshot which will allow for more backing and then add about a 10m wind on leader of say around 1.5mm.
Tensile strength of 50 is not quite enough.
Quote
Apologies for jumping between SI and imperial, I am from the other side of the Atlantic.
Yes, I'm easily confused. I'm from the other side of the world.
This is a great board. Very good, insightful, suggestions, unlike some other forums that are primarily based on speculation. Thank you all.
At this point, I'm leaning towards Tallica II, modified brake Torium 50, or Newell 546 (because my friend has them and I can borrow one to see how it does). In the meantime, I'll use my Penn 4/0 and crank down the drag until they break on the strike (then I'll know how much they can take).
Quote from: Makule on February 09, 2012, 08:35:00 PM
This is a great board. Very good, insightful, suggestions, unlike some other forums that are primarily based on speculation. Thank you all.
At this point, I'm leaning towards Tallica II, modified brake Torium 50, or Newell 546 (because my friend has them and I can borrow one to see how it does). In the meantime, I'll use my Penn 4/0 and crank down the drag until they break on the strike (then I'll know how much they can take).
Please take a look at the two posts:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=45.0 and http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=509.0
if you want a new Trinidad 50, you will have to buy some new-old stock as it appears that Shimano is not making them anymore as it's not in their catelog. The Torium 50 is still available though.
With both of these reels, I'd recommend upgrading the drags and ambassaduer-style pawl (dog), to Carbontex (by SmoothDrag) and to the dog of the Trinidad DC series. I've had 3 reels in a row where the dogs were not engaging and replaced the dog as shown in http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=509.0, without any problems. The is that clicking sound when you reel, but beat the reel not engaging as you expect.
Quote from: Makule on February 09, 2012, 08:25:57 PM
QuoteMakule, I am also a shore based angler and understand your reluctance to use spectra, especially over rocky grounds. It gets extremely expensive if you fluff a cast or break off.
Clearly, you do understand my situation.
QuotePut a few 100m of 80lb braid on as backing (say 300m) and fill up 200yds with that 80lb cable for topshot.
What is this "80lb cable"?
Quote
Alternatively why don't you rather use 50lb 200yd topshot which will allow for more backing and then add about a 10m wind on leader of say around 1.5mm.
Tensile strength of 50 is not quite enough.
Quote
Apologies for jumping between SI and imperial, I am from the other side of the Atlantic.
Yes, I'm easily confused. I'm from the other side of the world.
80lb cable was a joke :) it refers to the 80lb mono you cast with :)
The Trini/Torium 50 can catch big fish. A +-650kg bull shark was caught on a Trini 50. Thats a big fish, and there also have been some very big other sharks close to 400kg caught from the rocks on Trini 50s. A Torium 50 should be able to do the same. I hate to tell you this but some of those reels probably had greased leather washers in them.
If you change the original washers in the Shimano to carbonfibre the drag wont stick if you put a light coating of Cals on
Why do you only fish with 200yds of line on your reel though? If you pick up a big fish you have to basically lock the drag, grip the spool with your thumb and hope you can hold on to a rock with your other hand otherwise the 100yd you have left on the spool is going to go south. If you have 500m of line at least you can let the fish run out hopefully beyond the reefs and tire it out there. Its a different way of fishing I would like to learn more about it.
The Newell has been scratched off the list. The brakes are poor.
QuoteWhy do you only fish with 200yds of line on your reel though? If you pick up a big fish you have to basically lock the drag, grip the spool with your thumb and hope you can hold on to a rock with your other hand otherwise the 100yd you have left on the spool is going to go south. If you have 500m of line at least you can let the fish run out hopefully beyond the reefs and tire it out there. Its a different way of fishing I would like to learn more about it.
The two largest fish I caught shore casting were on the very old Penn Senator 6/0 reel with only 200 yards. The drag was tight and not all of the line went out. The other bigger strikes were taken on the 9/0 reels that none of those could be stopped (500 yards of 80 lb). My thinking is that if I can't stop it within 200 yards (the way I brake the fish), another 300 yards won't make a difference. This is rationalizing and I'll probably still use the 9/0 reels for certain places. The "regular" places will have another, much lighter, setup.
We cast the lines out and then put the rods into holders that are anchored firmly into the rocks. When the fish strikes, we are not holding the rod, it's still in the rod holder. I leave it there until the fish stops running (or the line breaks). Once the fish stops, the pull is watched to see if it eases up a bit. Only when it does that will the rod be taken out. With the method, the rod and reel take a beating, but really big sharks can be stopped (just keep cranking up the drag until something breaks or the fish stops, and if the drag alone is not enough, grab the spool and hang on).
the torium 50 could be fixed. with greased carbon fiber drags, spring loaded dogs and a larger handle grip, i think it would be a very strong contender. as far as breaking off fish in the rocks, an 80 pound hollow core spectra can at least be repaired using and end-to-end splice. the benefits of casting thin spectra and the ease of repair might outweigh the occasional loss of yardage in the rocks. if you could hold the fish for the first 60 seconds and stop that first run, you might have a chance. i would look to a larger reel, 130 pound spectra and a 40# drag setting to do just that. you would have to use a drag scale to properly set your drags. if this does not work, it would be time and money wasted. if it does work, it would be fortune and glory!
Without exaggeration, we expect
every strike to include line rubbing on the rocks at some point. This is the reason spectra is never used close to the terminal tackle. To do so would essentially guarantee 100% loss. It is not only on the initial run that the line will get snagged, it's also all the way up to, and including, the time of gaffing. I have tried even 200 lb. spectra without success. Based on my experience, the most appropriate use of spectra for our casting conditions, is for reserve capacity, at least a couple of hundred yards away from the terminal tackle. I know that people do use this kind of combination, but generally with lighter lines.
Quoteif you could hold the fish for the first 60 seconds and stop that first run, you might have a chance.
This is why the most successful approach I've come up with thus far, has been to use a very tight drag from the outset, and to keep increasing the drag as the fish takes out line. Once the fish stops, it will go left and right but at that point one has more control over the situation than on a flat out run. You are correct from that standpoint.
Quotei would look to a larger reel, 130 pound spectra and a 40# drag setting to do just that.
That is exactly why I asked the question to begin with. Reels that I'm aware of that can apply that much pressure are heavy. Heavy = lack of adequate casting distance. The Penn International 50 that I have had for a very long time has great brakes. Unfortunately, it's heavy enough with not enough line capacity (for the weight) that I prefer to use even the Senator 9/0 over it.
Hi Makule, that is hectic. You have angry fish if they take so much line on a 9/0. I can fully understand why you don't want to use spectra. We either put the rod in a holder or hold it in hand using a rod bucket. We take it out the holder as soon as the fish takes to gain control of the first run, with lighter tackle big sharks sometimes head for the horizon thats why we have the spectra backing. Seems like we have similar fun shore based fishing casting big leads and reels! :) ;D
Makule,
Why not set the drag for 20-25# initially? Wouldn't it be better to slow down that initial run? It can be done with smooth drags. At least this is the way we have done it on Oahu (we meaning my friends and I).
I know others do the same as you. As line is going out, they tighten down the drag and as the line goes out, they start palming the spool if the fish doesn't stop.
Bryan
QuoteWhy not set the drag for 20-25# initially? Wouldn't it be better to slow down that initial run?
I must be misunderstanding your question. I do try to slow the initial run as best as I can. The drag is set fairly tight and if the fish takes line, I'll keep tightening until it stops. If I can't tighten any more, I'll grab the spool to apply more braking.
The reason I leave the rods in the holder after the strike and during the run, is that there's no way of telling how big the fish is. Since the drag is set quite tight to begin with, if the fish starts to run on the strike it's gotta be good size. That being the case, it's safer to leave the rod in the holder and to try to slow/stop it that way than to take out the rod and then find you can't stop it and you're at the end of your 80 or 100 lb test line. With that size line, I have had the exciting experience of a fish literally dragging me as I slid across the rocks.
have you tried floating your live baits out under a balloon with an offshore breeze.throwing 11oz of lead will put hairs on your chest like 1/2" conduit
Quote from: wallacewt on February 11, 2012, 11:47:22 AM
have you tried floating your live baits out under a balloon with an offshore breeze.throwing 11oz of lead will put hairs on your chest like 1/2" conduit
We do use the wind to float out a line. We use a trash bag like a balloon to pull the line out and attach a floater to hold up the leader.
(https://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1p5sZs2bRHf5_Am1laO8xk1xS4cl8zD5tISZvPDq5rhI8CWIcLaBQaie67fIJb0v8JXM3maCfCEqH5xUOTewZwQg/Trash%20bag%20fishing%20with%20text.jpg?psid=1)
what's the water depth out by the trash bags? does it drop off quick? where are the reefs?
Quote from: alantani on February 11, 2012, 11:17:26 PM
what's the water depth out by the trash bags? does it drop off quick? where are the reefs?
At shore, the depth is about 50'. It then drops off gradually (no really steep drop off) so that at about 100 yards out, it's probably 100' deep. Where we often place the trash bag may be between 200 to 300 feet (don't know since we can't measure it). We can send the line out to the end of the spool and I have gone as far as 800 yards. Not better and much more tiring to crank all that line back in to check bait. No significant reef to be concerned about except to the sides (along the cliff).
This area does not have the fastest drop off, but it has the off-shore winds. There are a few other places that get deeper faster, but the wind is either parallel to shore of on-shore.
i'd be curious to see how a kite would work.
kite,party balloon,helium balloon they would all work.
Quote from: alantani on February 12, 2012, 05:19:42 AM
i'd be curious to see how a kite would work.
Works great, but they crash too.
http://www.fishingkites.co.nz/articles/mahi_mahi_fishing.htm (http://www.fishingkites.co.nz/articles/mahi_mahi_fishing.htm)
looks like tough fishing. we've got more reasons why things would not work than reasons why things would. this is why you put a man on the ground and give him time to work something out. you line options are mono, spectra and wire. your reel options are old school penns and newer lever drags. you still have to work out the delivery system and they you actually have to get out and fish. chances are you're gonna lose alot of gear and spend alot of money in the process. it's unlikely that you will find the perfect system on the first try. it may take a dozen combinations before you get it right, it will cost you money every step of the way and then you will probably still have bad days. :-\
Quotechances are you're gonna lose alot of gear and spend alot of money in the process. it's unlikely that you will find the perfect system on the first try. it may take a dozen combinations before you get it right, it will cost you money every step of the way and then you will probably still have bad days.
Have been doing that for many years, and dollars, now. As Sal's signature states, "Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will", so I've kept trying.
I did come up with a couple of workable methods, but they take a long time to set up and are somewhat impractical. Trying to work out some "bugs". Unfortunately, or fortunately, as I get older, the need to address those issues declines in priority/importance, as does the need to catch fish.
I use a torium 50, greased carbontex drags with 80lb test on a 13 ft tallus. The cast control knob is pretty cool to help prevent backlash. With cast control tightened, its not too difficult to launch a 10oz lead 100+ yards. The newells are definitely easier to cast farther but not as strong. You will probably need to replace factory rod clamp for larger one, did not fit on my ulua pole.