O.K. What's the difference between the 301 and the 321? Viscosity? Does it matter? Any help before I order would be great.
I use the 321, it's just a lightweight oil. The 301 is 321 disolved in an evaporating cleaner.
So the 301 has a higher or I should say a quicker evaporation rate? And if so, what is the advantage to that?
BMitch,
TSI301 is dissolved in a solvent, which also acts as a cleaning agent, and then, when it evaporates, leaves a micro thin film of TSI321. The benefit is that if the part you are lubricating is not absolutely clean, but almost clean, it will clean the rest of the deposits.
Bryan
TSI301 is not plastic safe, but TSI321 is
Quote from: RWS on February 14, 2012, 12:36:15 PM
TSI301 is not plastic safe, but TSI321 is
I have TSI301 in a plastic bottle with a stainless steel needle, for a year now. The plastic bottle is still intact and the TSI301 didn't evaporate :-\.
and around we go!haha
I think it was just miss-quoted ::)
From their site:
TSI 301 contains a solvent and is not recommended for use on plastics but ideal for use with metals.
TSI 321 does not contain a solvent and is highly recommended for use where most plastics* are present.
*TSI321 is compatible with all plastics except PMMA (polymethyl methacrylate) and PVB (poly-vinyl butyral). If in doubt test before use.
On the evaporation?
Maybe try leaving cap off and let us know how it went........... ;)
You did a good job explaining the evaporation process, treidm... can you explain why my plastic bottle didn't melt away yet? :-\
Sal, you've got that special plastic bottle, just like your reels...speeeciaaall.
;) ;D
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 19, 2012, 07:52:17 PM
You did a good job explaining the evaporation process, treidm... can you explain why my plastic bottle didn't melt away yet? :-\
You want me to explain it? ??? Hmmm
I personally would have never thought that the plastic would melt, holding 301 with solvent.
Many very strong acids and solvents are often stored in various types of plastics or glass. because they react so violently or corrosively with metal containers
I'll give my opinion....
By what I read & posted from their site, I never read it as it would melt away or anything like that, maybe you did?
I read it as, it is not "recommended" for plastics, but that doesn't mean to melt them, to me. It could be as simple as discoloring them or whatever...
You could contact them and find out what type of damage, if any, it could cause
I wouldn't worry about it melting your container, but that's just my opinion.
Reid
I put some 301 into a plastic syringe. Damage occurred to the rubber tip on the plunger and the plastic was not affected. The smoothness of plunger movement became jerky.
I think TSI 301 was developed for gun cleaning, they might just be covering themselves in case some one damaged a urethane or other gun stock finish.
I can tell you that certain kinds of plastics react poorly with acetone, while others seem to be unaffected. I'm just not sure of what types of plastic are not good. When in doubt test on a spot unseen.
Bob
One thing I hadn't considered...
If the reason for not recommending it for plastics, was due to it reacting with some plastics, not melting but just reacting...
So, even though there might not be a visible change to a given plastic, could the plastic be leaching contaminant components into the product?
Regards, Reid
I now have 301 dipped bearings in several reels and nothing has "melted" because the solvent in 301 is gone 60 seconds after dipping.
The melting thing never goes away.
Mileage may vary. I absolutely know that 301 can melt down at least some plastics. I had 301 in a plastic pin oiler that I took on a longrange trip last year. The clear plastic body of the oiler melted down. Thankfully I had my lubes in a freezer ziplock, and it didn't eat thru that.
I have both 301 and 321. Given what I experienced, I am using 321 for all my reels now. Too much money in these things to roll the dice on he-said/she-said stories. If 301 was truly safe for plastics, they would not have created 321. I've used both on my reels, and frankly, I haven't noted a performance difference between them myself. Maybe 301 is only nasty to plastics until something evaporates(?), but if 321 performs as well, why take any unneeded risk?
TSI301 is 321 with a proprietary solvent (so it will clean powder and bullet residue from gun barrels). The advantage of the 301 in reel servicing is it will release any junk from the metal surfaces including grease and it allows for very small amounts of 321 to be left behind so you get the best reduction in ball bearing friction. When you us 321 you will have to blow the bearing out with air to remove excess 321 to get similar performance to just using a drop of 301. 301 is around 90% solvent.
TSI has a warning that 301 may attack some plastics. Always test if in doubt before using.
Jim N.
Quote from: HalBrown on March 01, 2012, 05:40:29 PM
I now have 301 dipped bearings in several reels and nothing has "melted" because the solvent in 301 is gone 60 seconds after dipping.
The melting thing never goes away.
In theory, I understand the solvent and lubricant left behind thing. No one is considering the grease or dirt that the solvent has "cleaned" i.e. if you have some grit or salt crystals attached to some grease this grit is sitting on the ball bearings. Now you dip the bearing in 301 and it disolves the grease, what happens to the grit when the solvent evaporates? I say without further cleaning the grit remains. So just dipping is not the answer. Some more cleaning needs to be done. Dominick
Sounds like anyway you look at it. COMPRESSED AIR!!!
Quote from: BMITCH on March 03, 2012, 11:30:08 PM
Sounds like anyway you look at it. COMPRESSED AIR!!!
My point exactly. Dominick
Dominick, when you get a chance go to the home center and get yourself a spray can of Paslode tool cleaner. give the open bearing a squirt, spinn it and then one more squirt . Prepare yourself to be amazed, add a drop of tsi 301 whyle still spinning. If you don't like it I'll pay for it ;).
Quote from: JGB on March 03, 2012, 06:08:03 PM
When you us 321 you will have to blow the bearing out with air to remove excess 321 to get similar performance to just using a drop of 301. 301 is around 90% solvent.
Ahhhh,,,, well it makes sense why I see no difference in them then. I always clean my bearings first, usually with brake cleaner since it leaves behind no oils, dry them out with some air, and THEN 321 them. Not sure I would want to clean and lube at once actually.
BTW, I have seen 6000 series bearings where the inside carrier was some kind of plastic. Not sure how common they are, but certainly something to verify for those using 301.
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 04, 2012, 02:33:32 AM
Dominick, when you get a chance go to the home center and get yourself a spray can of Paslode tool cleaner. give the open bearing a squirt, spinn it and then one more squirt . Prepare yourself to be amazed, add a drop of tsi 301 whyle still spinning. If you don't like it I'll pay for it ;).
Sal: I'm not going to like it already, send the money ::). No Home Centers near here, I'll check though. Dominick
QuoteSal: I'm not going to like it already, send the money...
Classic - touché sir. ;) ;D
Cheers, Justin
To summarize my understanding:
If using TSI301 it is best to soak/spray the bearing then blow them out with compressed air to remove any contaminates.
If using TSI321 it is best to use a separate cleaner on the bearings before applying TSI321 then blow the bearings out again to remove access TSI321.
i clean the bearing first with carb cleaner and compressed air, then dip in tsi 301 or 321 and let the excess drain out.
Alan is the expert and I do what he says. A misperception developed somewhere along the discussion that 301 is used to clean bearings. No, no, no.
Does the TSI301/321 work as well on ceramic bearings - such as Boca orange seals - or is the improvement most noticeable on all stainless bearings? My intended application is baitcaster reels, and because of the plastic in them I'm thinking of using the TSI321 after spinning the bearings in acetone with my Dremel.
NO TSI 301 won't work on Ceramic Bearings
you mean all ceramic or including the ones with stainless steel races?
My question was aimed at hybrid ceramic bearings - such as Boca OS which only have ceramic balls I believe. I was not asking about pure ceramic bearings, and apologise for any confusion.
It won't do anything for the ceramic, but it will sure as heck protect the stainless steel parts that accompany the ceramic balls. It'll slow them down a bit, and in my opinion cut down on their performance. I LOVE tsi301/321 with SS bearings though, quiet and cast for days. Like Alan, i've been running a swimbait reel that's heavily used (freshwater swimbaits up to 10 oz's) for about 6 months now and haven't re-lubed the bearings once! It's great stuff!
Geoff
agreed. for hybrids with stainless steel races and cages, give it a try!
OK, so it is best for all stainless bearings but will also help with hybrids. Does it work well for lighter baits in the range 1/4 - 1/2 oz?
it should be fine.
I just hope the 301 - 321 doesn't eat my Newell's. I just won't use it on the Boca Ceramic Bearing. I have spoke with Boca & they said run them DRY.
Would it be possible to turn 321 into 301 by adding solvent?
What solvent could be used?
I think this process would benefit overseas customers to get home made 301.
Antero
If you clean your bearing good, you could just use TSI321. Add a small drop, spin your bearing so all surfaces are coated, then blow out the excess or have the excess spin out by itself. You will be fine.
Quote from: Bryan Young on April 30, 2012, 04:33:34 PM
If you clean your bearing good, you could just use TSI321. Add a small drop, spin your bearing so all surfaces are coated, then blow out the excess or have the excess spin out by itself. You will be fine.
Will blowing/spinning out the excess 321 give the same performance as compared to letting 301 evaporate and leave a "micro thin film" of 321 on the bearings? I read somewhere that 321 is 10X as thick as 301.
That is correct.
You guys are way overthinking it. Just clean out the bearings and dip the bearings in tsi 301 or 321 then let them on a drag to dry. Simple as that.
Thanks bryan!
I was just confirming. I'm also an engineer so i usually tend to overthink things :)
I was able to get a small amount of tsi 301 from a friend and after trying it out, the effect was far from that of speed x(this is what i have been using before), even when I removed that hydrodynamic wedge/excess speedx with compressed air. I also read somewhere (not too sure if it was from this forum) that the viscosity of 321 is the same as speedx? The reason why i was confirming
SpeedX is thicker (higher viscosity) than TSI 301, I have both and compared the two. 301 contanins solvent and has melted one of my small tube precision oilers. However, I put the 301 in a precision oiler I purchased from a place that sell's bulk plastic and custom fabricated plastic items and doesnt melt at all. Solvents do come in plastic containers now-a-days but you must know the specific type of plastic to use (look on the bottoms of plastic solvent containers next time in the hardware store).
Sal, I tried a similar product to Paslode. The product I used was Performance Plus Electric Motor Cleaner; I use it in my electric motors for R/C electric airplane's. I believe it to be very similar to Paslode so I used it AFTER cleaning some bearings with Carbuerator cleaner (in my ultrasonic cleaner). There was a noticeable improvement over just the carb cleaner; then I cleaned the bearing again (carb cleaner in the ultrasonic cleaner again) and added 301. The difference between 301 and the electric motor cleaner SEEMED THE SAME, I didnt time either test and didnt notice any significant improvement between the two.
The main difference between "Electric Motor Cleaner" and TSI 301 is cost per application. The electric motor cleaner is approx $6 per aerosol can vs a drop of TSI 301. For me, I'll stick with the TSI 321 (yes I use both 301 & 321) for economy and maybe one day time test the two products.
Leo
Ok boys - As the Cajuns say, "I'm gonna tole you" the story:
I'm in the chemistry (plastics) business so I think I know a little more than the average bear about these things.
I've been looking hard at giving TSI 301 a try because I'm not that happy with Hot Sauce in the small reels that I mostly use/maintain. I looked up an old MSDS somewhere that said TSI 301 contains "methyl chloroform", which is another name for 1,1,1 trichloroethane......old fashion (now banned) dry cleaning solvent. Fantastic fast evaporating degreaser, I used to use it for all my gun part degreasing - but you do not want to be in direct contact long term or inhale it a lot - things like liver damage are cited if you look up the potential health effects.
The reason you can store TSI 301 in some plastic bottles and not others is simple - some are made of polyethylene and impervious (just like the baggie cited earlier) to just about any solvent. High density polyethylene is what almost all natural gas pipes are made of today.
I personally LOVE 1,1,1 "trike" as a degreaser as I said above and am even more interested in TSI 301 now that I know it's the solvent! Just bought me a box of nitrile gloves! The amount you're likely to inhale messing with reel bearings and such is miniscule and can be countered by working in a well ventilated area.
i thought TCE was taken out of circulation. it's toxicity is zero in your average applications. it can cause cardiac arrhythmias when teenagers huff it to get high. it was used in liquid paper for years with no problems. i just didn't know that anyone used the stuff anymore. funny, though. the old liquid paper bottles were plastic, weren't they? for sure the caps were.
Now that I have the 321 I dont hardly use the 301 any more...
But it (301) sure cleans stuff up good.......
Years ago I was a truck driver. We had a uniform service that sometimes did not deliver clean uniforms on time. In those days the trucks were equipped with carbon tetrachloride (trichloroethane) fire extinguishers. We would hang the dirty uniforms on the locker door and spray them with the carbon tetrachloride. When they dried they would be clean but the fumes stayed with you all day. It's a wonder I'm still alive exposing myself to all those chemicals. I remember using degreasers to clean printer's ink off of electric motors from the old Brooklyn Eagle newspaper. We used to clean wheel bearings with leaded gasoline. Who knows how many years I've taken off my life or what is lying dormant in my body. Now I put good things in my body some beer, a little zin and some Wild Turkey once in a while. ;D Dominick
Quote from: Pescachaser on June 14, 2012, 03:11:42 AM
. Now I put good things in my body some beer, a little zin and some Wild Turkey once in a while. ;D Dominick
Hi Dom, I was in Arizona 12years ago and picked up a bottle of Austin Nichols Wild Turkey No 8 Bourbom. Is it still safe to drink?
QuoteIs it still safe to drink?
Nah mate, that's no good now.
Better send it to me for disposal... ;) ;D
Hey guys. I have tried the TSI 301 in ceramic hybrid bearings and I got mixed results. With some, it seemed to be fine and with others it seemed to make them slower than using a thick oil would have. After talking to boca about it, we came to the conclusion that it just might be gumming up the ceramic balls by not being able to bond to the ceramic. We are not at all sure about that, just a guess. I have switched back to using a very thin oil on the ceramic hybrids. With the ceramic hybrids, you just need a tiny amount to cover the steel parts. If I have the shields or seals off, what I do is spin the bearing on a pointed stick and then give it a quick spray with rem oil in a spray can while it's spinning. Basically I just pass it through quick enoung to get an even thin coat on it. Rem oil is extremly thin so it doesn't slow them down much at all over running dry.
Great info - thanks Kevin.
Quote from: Pro Reel on June 15, 2012, 02:58:50 AM
Hey guys. I have tried the TSI 301 in ceramic hybrid bearings and I got mixed results. With some, it seemed to be fine and with others it seemed to make them slower than using a thick oil would have. After talking to boca about it, we came to the conclusion that it just might be gumming up the ceramic balls by not being able to bond to the ceramic. We are not at all sure about that, just a guess. I have switched back to using a very thin oil on the ceramic hybrids. With the ceramic hybrids, you just need a tiny amount to cover the steel parts. If I have the shields or seals off, what I do is spin the bearing on a pointed stick and then give it a quick spray with rem oil in a spray can while it's spinning. Basically I just pass it through quick enoung to get an even thin coat on it. Rem oil is extremly thin so it doesn't slow them down much at all over running dry.
Same observation here! TSI301 seem to slow a Boca Orange Seal hybrid bearing down. Now I use a drop of Rem oil on degreased and dried spool bearings, spin it good to get all parts coated, then a blast of compressed air to dispel the excess.
LL
The TSI is a self leveling oil..
It will continue to spread until it has coated & Bonded with everything metal, and then excess will run off...
I find my TSI bearings run much faster after a day of sitting in the reel..
The Next day a spin of the spool is much faster...
Ceramics will always run faster DRY..
But the Metal Races have to be protected in a Reel..
So far I have had the best results with TSI 301 & 321 in Spool Bearings..
.
Quote from: LLCC on June 15, 2012, 07:19:23 AM
Quote from: Pro Reel on June 15, 2012, 02:58:50 AM
Hey guys. I have tried the TSI 301 in ceramic hybrid bearings and I got mixed results. With some, it seemed to be fine and with others it seemed to make them slower than using a thick oil would have. After talking to boca about it, we came to the conclusion that it just might be gumming up the ceramic balls by not being able to bond to the ceramic. We are not at all sure about that, just a guess. I have switched back to using a very thin oil on the ceramic hybrids. With the ceramic hybrids, you just need a tiny amount to cover the steel parts. If I have the shields or seals off, what I do is spin the bearing on a pointed stick and then give it a quick spray with rem oil in a spray can while it's spinning. Basically I just pass it through quick enoung to get an even thin coat on it. Rem oil is extremly thin so it doesn't slow them down much at all over running dry.
Same observation here! TSI301 seem to slow a Boca Orange Seal hybrid bearing down. Now I use a drop of Rem oil on degreased and dried spool bearings, spin it good to get all parts coated, then a blast of compressed air to dispel the excess.
LL
Yes Rem oil is lighter then TSI301, but Rem oil will only last a day or two of hard casting, where as TSI301 will last for months !!!!!! in a bearing.
(http://www.pierandsurf.com/fishing-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15603&d=1435005752)
Tight Lines !