It is time for a heavier outfit and I'm looking at 4/0 Senators.
I understand there were changes over the years. Which would be a good one out of the box that would also permit most all of the upgrades available? Of course a Baja Special would be awesome but a bit pricey at the moment. I'm considering a very nice unmolested 113HL. What do you think?
Jeff
jeff, let's not take that trip down the rabbit hole just yet. what kind of fishing are you doing? where at? target species? weight class? desired line weight and drag range?
I am not one to talk, I have over a dozen modified Penn reels, but for the money there is a lot of good off the shelf reels you can get for less than you can put into a highly modified reel. If you like to tinker and fish gear you "built" go for it but it can be a expensive and addictive hobby.
I have some Jigmasters 500, 501, 505, 506, that I tinker with -- Newell bars and clamps, Tiburon, frames, new drags.
My son insists I will be under-gunned on The San Diego for a one day at the end of this month because of the BFT caught yesterday. I'll be very happy with YT. So...60 pound mono? I want to get a Senator that i can use right away that works with the later upgrades that I read about on here. Not sure when I'll upgrade but I want the option when the time comes. Most of our fishing is local, out of Redondo Beach, Long Beach.
Thannks
I hate saying this, bt for a one day, you will be set with the Jigmaster. If you want to fish BFT, the boat will have a rental rig that will be just fine.
Now, if you are using he one day as a scenario to justify purchasing a new toy, and that is the best thing in life to do by the way, we can start the conversation. Alan will not recommend the 113H for BFT, I do not think.
The Man
I think I'd get one with the half graphite frame and aluminum spool. I think those came with bearings and HT100 CF drags. The USA made ones. That should fish 40-50 ok and can be upgraded later
Lots of good reels out there that would probably be better but if you gotta have a 113h that should work
Quote from: Ron Jones on May 10, 2023, 05:57:27 PMI hate saying this, bt for a one day, you will be set with the Jigmaster. If you want to fish BFT, the boat will have a rental rig that will be just fine.
Now, if you are using he one day as a scenario to justify purchasing a new toy, and that is the best thing in life to do by the way, we can start the conversation. Alan will not recommend the 113H for BFT, I do not think.
The Man
After my son saw the pictures of the BFT caught yesterday on The San Diego, he is begging me to borrow a bigger rod and reel from a friend for this one day. I would prefer to get a stock 113 -- not for a dedicated BFT rig but just as the next step up from my Jigmasters.
For a 4/0, the 113HL is on the top of my list. Should have aluminum bars and spool already. Go for it. Of course, I'm one to talk. I currently have 11 113H's in various stages of modification.
For my charters, I tell the guys to bring only two speed lever drag reels. Where do you live? Any chance that you are in northern California?
I'm in L.A. area -- Redondo Beach. Allan, My son says the same thing.
The reel I'm looking at doesn't have the Half Frame but it does have the Black (aluminum?) Bars and the chrome foot like a Jigmaster. Does it make a big difference if one day, I'll get a a new frame? Should I keep looking for the Half Frame?
Does the version with the half frame have better drag, bearings, etc?
If you go to Mysticparts.com, conventional reels, Senators, there will be all the options for the 113/4/0 series. Might take awhile to browse through, though. Just me, but I'd avoid graphite anything if possible...
Thank You All. Most helpful recommendations. I'm Picking it up today for 50 bucks. It will get cleaned, greased, new Mono, and to make sure that I am in way over my head, I'm going to mount it on a Green Seeker 550 that was given to me last year :d
Worth 50 all day.
going for a budget 50 pound reel? go with a shimano tld 20 two speed loaded with straight 50 pound mono. set the drag to 15 pounds of drag at strike. that should get you 25 pounds at full. the only thing you might add is a big handle. i've got a nice one.
Quote from: Classtime on May 10, 2023, 07:22:27 PMI'm in L.A. area -- Redondo Beach. Allan, My son says the same thing.
The reel I'm looking at doesn't have the Half Frame but it does have the Black (aluminum?) Bars and the chrome foot like a Jigmaster. Does it make a big difference if one day, I'll get a a new frame? Should I keep looking for the Half Frame?
Does the version with the half frame have better drag, bearings, etc?
No and NO
Don't go out on a BFT trip with a 4/0 as your heavy reel! A Jigmaster would work during the day if the fish are up and school sized.
Good deal for $50, clean it up and have at it!
A 550 is 9' right?
Quote from: Swami805 on May 11, 2023, 02:36:22 AMGood deal for $50, clean it up and have at it!
A 550 is 9' right?
The seller is being a flake. I'm looking now at the 113H with the graphite frame. The 550 is 9' and is a beast. My son says it's gonna kill me. Funny because he gave me the blank for a birthday present, I wrapped it up nice and pretty and now he teases me when I make plans for it.
The baja with the double dog set up is nice,,,, ;) if you want to go down the rabbit hole get a old 113h and 3 or $400 worth of parts,,,, ??? Look at the ex narrow frames,,,,,, ;D
You can hot rod one,,,,, >:D
I had a feeling this thread would go places.
Also a search on eBay shows some modded 113h for sale for not much more than the mods probably cost. That's def the most cost effective way to go. Takes some of the fun out though, which I assume is the reason they're still listed.
C'mon, guys. Two speed lever drags.....
Penn Fathom or Fathom II two speed reels are priced close to what you can put into a hotroded 113H and like Alan and Mark have said above use a 2 speed reel when fishing for BFT. I would suggest for a start a FTH30LD2 FTH40NLD2 or the FTHII version of the same reels. For a relatively low cost heavy reel the Penn FTHII60NLD2 looks interesting but I have not used one yet.
Quote from: alantani on May 11, 2023, 02:40:25 PMC'mon, guys. Two speed lever drags.....
My good sir I am certain that you are giving sound advice. But do you yourself always listen to sound advice? I know I don't. Sometimes I just try to catch fish the way I wanna catch fish, even if it's not the easiest or the most effective.
If I may be forgiven for the psychoanalysis I'd say it sounds like the modded penn bug has already bitten this fella. And we already know there's no cure for that.
Also I came to a realization. Modding reels is the practice of turning a reel that works... into a reel that usually works.
No issue about hotrodding reels, like I posted above I have many. However it is expensive to get to the fish so it is smart to use what those that have caught larger BFT suggest.
Would you want to hook a fish like these and loose it because you brought mouse gear to fight cows?
(https://alantani.com/gallery/37/1583-110523152853.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/33/1583_19_10_20_6_31_37.jpeg)
Bad things can happen when using the wrong tools.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/1583_29_10_19_5_26_12.jpeg)
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on May 11, 2023, 03:09:40 PM......I just try to catch fish the way I wanna catch fish, even if it's not the easiest or the most effective.
I think that quote only applies to small to medium size fish OR if you are after an IGFA world record but as soon as you found the 80# grouper on shallow waters and bigger tunas on deep waters you will love 2-speed reels.
I must recon that I love my Baja Special reel and my modded 113HXN with 7-drag washer, etc but sometimes they stay in the rod holder all day, sure they work and will bring any 30# YT but its easier with the Mak15 :P
I'm with Alan and I'm too old to struggle with big fish on a single speed. With the Fathom 40NLD2 large fish can be landed, depending on the attitude of the fish it can be a workout. This fish was on the 40 with 80# braid and top shot. It was a struggle, over an hour to get it to gaff. As an all around reel the 40NLD2 is a good choice.
The 113H is a nice reel but no way would I want to tangle with a large BFT.
Bill
Interesting thread about fighting fish. All the perspectives and advice are very good from many points of view. The common thread appears to be to minimize the fight and get the fish on the boat because of the stress on the angler.
Those guys back in the '30s and '40s must have been tough you-know-whats. What happened to that? Now don't start barkin' at me. It's just a question from a rarely utilized perspective. Those guys caught fish, too....and went back for more over and over again....using that old slow heavy stuff that nobody wants to use today. I don't think they wound up prostrate on the deck but the fish sure did.
I gotta say I'm with the op classtime here, he's going on a day trip on the San Diego. 550 with a 4/0 sounds like a fun way to fish to me. The likelihood of him hooking in to anything he couldn't handle on that rig is remote at best. School size bluefin will be a battle but doable. Fire a snipper in a foamer and let the fun begin
Quote from: Keta on May 11, 2023, 03:17:09 PMNo issue about hotrodding reels, like I posted above I have many. However it is expensive to get to the fish so it is smart to use what those that have caught larger BFT suggest.
Would you want to hook a fish like these and loose it because you brought mouse gear to fight cows?
(https://alantani.com/gallery/37/1583-110523152853.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/33/1583_19_10_20_6_31_37.jpeg)
Bad things can happen when using the wrong tools.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/1583_29_10_19_5_26_12.jpeg)
Lee, I love you like an older brother, but this isn't work, so your argument falls apart.
If you are someone who is passionate about big fish on light tackle, you have to spend the same money to get to the fish; its the only way to get there. For some, even if they only ever get one shot, they have to see if they can do it. A past US President would say that those people are NOT a poor, timid sole.
This is getting philosophical, but that is what fishing is at the end of the day. Alan has told me that anyone who can get to the super cows should go. He says that you learn what works and what doesn't and you, your gear, and your technique has to be right. He is, obviously, correct; however, if you fish schoolie YFT with a bass rod and 15# test, the reality is the exact same. Last year I caught a trip limit of yellowtail in one day with a graphite framed star drag and 30# floro, and I proved to myself what the original poster is looking to find out.
Again, love you forever.
The Man
I know you are looking for a reel immediately, but as a suggestion for another time, look for an old Penn International 50. Very serviceable reel that you can, If you're patient, find for a song. I bought one last year for $40 at a yard sale.
Quote from: Ron Jones on May 11, 2023, 06:44:45 PMQuote from: Keta on May 11, 2023, 03:17:09 PMNo issue about hotrodding reels, like I posted above I have many. However it is expensive to get to the fish so it is smart to use what those that have caught larger BFT suggest.
Would you want to hook a fish like these and loose it because you brought mouse gear to fight cows?
(https://alantani.com/gallery/37/1583-110523152853.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/33/1583_19_10_20_6_31_37.jpeg)
Bad things can happen when using the wrong tools.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/1583_29_10_19_5_26_12.jpeg)
Lee, I love you like an older brother, but this isn't work, so your argument falls apart.
If you are someone who is passionate about big fish on light tackle, you have to spend the same money to get to the fish; its the only way to get there. For some, even if they only ever get one shot, they have to see if they can do it. A past US President would say that those people are NOT a poor, timid sole.
This is getting philosophical, but that is what fishing is at the end of the day. Alan has told me that anyone who can get to the super cows should go. He says that you learn what works and what doesn't and you, your gear, and your technique has to be right. He is, obviously, correct; however, if you fish schoolie YFT with a bass rod and 15# test, the reality is the exact same. Last year I caught a trip limit of yellowtail in one day with a graphite framed star drag and 30# floro, and I proved to myself what the original poster is looking to find out.
Again, love you forever.
The Man
Dr. Jones (I'm still looking for a clip from Indiana Jones where the kid calls him Dr. Jones 🤣🤣🤣🤣) I will have to somewhat disagree with your statement.
While I applaud you for making a decision to limit with a star drag reel you were not keeping 23 other paying fishermen from fishing.
I was under gunned last year with a particularly mean fish, making 85' circles collecting lines from the stern. This prevented 23 other fishermen from even attempting to fish. It's not fair. While the 113H is a capable reel, especially Domonick's Tank and my Fathom 40 is also a capable reel, I was way under gunned and the hour plus fight proved it.
That tuna and Brian's marlin wrecked me and I have no desire to do it again. When the potential for big mean fish are present bring the right artillery. I wouldn't hunt elephants with a Winchester 30-30.
Technique is a key component but proper equipment is also paramount.
If I was fishing private charter and had the capability to chase a fish and not keep others from fishing I might give it a try.
Bill
I've caught schoolie YFT on the Ridge with a TranX 300 on a bass rod. I've caught cows and super cows... on appropriate heavy 2-speeds. Most big BFT come off jigs at night... it's not a finesse game! It's amazing (ok, not, this is the internet!) how many without appropriate experience will tell you what will work. You can certainly fish for big fish with a 4/0 but don't look/act surprised when you get your #### handed to you. Even on a day and a half BFT boat you need a 100# rig!
Ron, you are one of my favorit people to disagree with, keep up the good work.
I fish 30# (Avet MX6/3 or Penn TRQ15XNLD2 two speed reels) most of the time, but not for dropper loop or when larger tuna are in the area. If I am tormenting dorado I will use a single speed star drag.
I watched Potts come close to getting spooled by a plus size BFT in 30 seconds with a Avet MXJ and 30#. Foruunatly his topshot broke when he thumbs down hard on the spool and he did not loose Spectra.
Shellelly,
Those real men are dead now. They often had to hook on 1 or 2 rigs and toss them over the side when a fish took a long run. I am over 70 now and 2 speed is my friend. The 338# BFT above that the shark bit was on my 68th birthday, the tiny 230# one below it was a few months after my 69th.
Quote from: Ron Jones on May 11, 2023, 06:44:45 PMIf you are someone who is
Ron, no need to quote your entire statement. What's in it sums up why I have always fished.
My firearms are idle because I've been there and done that. There was nothing "new" left for me to do with those tools and the exercise became mundane.
My fishing has never stopped and I don't think there's an "end". I may become unable, but I'll never disconnect as long as I can comprehend. The variables, species, gear, lessons, and experiences are infinite. I agree that accepting the possibility of being outclassed, leaving no way out, and succeeding is a right of passage. Mundane and robotic aren't possible when you fight above your weight class.
I also recognize that the dollars spent to get to the fight are considerable these days. That aspect has affected the passions of fishermen toward a more efficient and short-lived fight. Smarter-not-harder has been borrowed from work and placed into fishing. Regrettable loss of experiences, but understandable.
Call all that ridiculous if you will, but I love to fight a fish. If he kicks my butt and breaks my stuff today, then so be it. I'll come back for some more of that and maybe put him in the cooler or cut him loose.
Quote from: Keta on May 12, 2023, 02:38:45 AMThose real men are dead now. They often had to hook on 1 or 2 rigs and toss them over the side when a fish took a long run. I am over 70 now and 2 speed is my friend. The 338# BFT above that the shark bit was on my 68th birthday, the tiny 230# one below it was a few months after my 69th.
So true, they's dead and gone. The point is they consistently landed very big fish, like yours, with wooden sticks and big, slow reels. When I see these discussions trying to establish what is "necessary" to catch fish, I notice how "necessary" really means "easier-faster" to get out of the way of everybody else. Some of the sport is lost in that.
You are wise to fish within your means. I don't cast 13' surf rods very often anymore. I pay a hard price when I do...and I'm just a kid at 63. ;)
.
I deliberately stirred the pot with my earlier comments because every time a thread gets legs, I get to learn. But i fear may have rubbed a few folks the wrong way.
But in case it's unclear, I've never fished for tuna, and never fished offshore. I've never paid thousands of dollars to get on a boat, so my preference for using the lightest tackle I can get away with is based on my on-shore experience. So at this scale it is all hypothetical to me, whereas most of you have actual experience. I just like a good hard fight.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on May 12, 2023, 01:02:34 PM...i fear may have rubbed a few folks the wrong way.
You haven't.
Those of us speaking from experience are trying to make sure others have the right gear. The plus size fish are not there all of the time but they are there often enough that you should be ready.
Your last post did hit a sore point with me though. "Ultra lite" fishing and catch and release kills close to as many fish as catch and eat fishing, especialy when you catch a larger one. A long fight causes lactic acid to build up often causing a fish to swim off and die when released. Food quality also suffers from a long fight.
Quote from: Keta on May 12, 2023, 01:20:32 PMcatch and release kills close to as many fish as catch and eat fishing,
I have seen many undersized speckled trout floating by. Guys squeeze the life out of them to get the hooks out. Big Reds have to be revived but in the winter, I've seen guys throw them back and watch 'em roll because they don't want to get their little tootsies wet. There are too many tools out there for this to keep happening.
Catch and release is fine, but it carries a heavier responsibility (barbless hooks!). Releasing an edible, legal game fish and seeing it drift and die after twisting and ripping the inside of its mouth is a wanton waste. If I kill a bull redfish, I'll tag it. I won't watch him go belly-up and drift.
Yup, I agree 100%. Waste of resources is why I am on the board of directors of OCEAN.
Oregon Coalition Educating ANglers (https://oceaned.org/#:~:text=Oregon%20Coalition%20for%20Educating%20ANglers%20(OCEAN)%20works%20to%20extend%20ocean,endangered%20rockfish%20and%20salmon%20species.)
Everything is a balancing act. Logically if youre fishing C&R it's for the fun of it, which is why nobody uses electric reels on trout. But i agree that fighting something too long on something too light definitely decreases survival odds. So yeah there's definitely a balancing act. But there's always a balancing act to do something right.
For me personally the only time I'm intentionally doing C&R is bass fishing in neighborhood retention ponds.
Do what'cha ya want Classtime. Personally, I've "kinda" gotten past that "I have'ta land this big'n, maybe it's the fish of a lifetime", thing. In fact, I'd rather( I have
Lost) lose one on a smaller-lighter rig that I modified, than land one on a stock rig. Ahhh, most of the time? Economically, one might wanna factor in everything(time, hassle, expense, etc.) before goin after a prize like a Bluefin and taking a chance on losing it cause you're undergunned...
Some folks think releasing a fish just means "not keeping it."
Fishing from a small private boat with totally stock 113H or 114H we had no problem with BFT up to #150 or so. That was with mono 'back in the day'. At the time there weren't a lot of options. None we could afford anyway. I'm putting together a 113H now with all the upgrades, because I really don't like lever drag reels for jigging. I plan on fishing it with 80 power pro. I'm thinking it will be fine for fish up to about #200. I'll post pictures if it blows up in my face.
John
Quote from: Keta on May 11, 2023, 03:17:09 PMBad things can happen when using the wrong tools.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/1583_29_10_19_5_26_12.jpeg)
Wow, care to share the story behind the catastrophic failure of this reel?
Talk Story;
Several years ago, heading back to my favorite launch ramp in my kayak, I still had a live 8" blue/green snapper for bait. Put it out in about 35' deep reef water, about 150yds from shore. There are always about 20 shore divers there where I launch, associated with the Dive Tour Company guides. Tossed out the bait and hooked-up within minutes. A big'n, drag was screaming, kayak tilted about 30 degrees and I couldn't leverage the rig outta the pole holder. Folks on shore watching and yelling. Brain started working after the initial adrenaline rush and I loosened the drag then got the rod out. About 30 seconds latter I could feel/hear the 50lb. P-pro rubbing on the reef—-no, no, NO! .....Yeah, ssssnap!
It was cool though, great fun on my modified Long Beach Live Bait Caster. The reel is probably twice as strong as it was stock. Some aftermarket mods, and some I came-up with. It felt great to have that reel preform exactly like I wanted it to.
1-week latter on shore, I was showing some divers and the dive master my yak. DM starts telling us about a Great Barracuda that was a real joy and attraction for divers, up until a few days ago. They found just the head, with a long green piece of line attached to a hook in the mouth. She was staring hard at me as she said this. I almost said; "wow!, wonder who did that"? But I decided to grin and bear it. Not a big fan of the Dive Companies, with their commercial interests, they act like they own Koloa landing. But she didn't say anything directly to me or try to out me in front of the tourists. And she was pretty, that always works on me, so what the heck. But I did feel bad about it...the G. B.'s are not afraid of humans, can actually act kinda tamed, you can even hand feed 'em. Not advised though, as they have mangled the hands of swimmers and divers.
The bummer is that these critters are not common, Hellyer's Barracuda's(about 2' long)are, But I won't kill them either, too much fun. There's only about 3, Maybe 4 species that I will eat. I really wanted a chance to look-at and release that G B. I think the line mighta tangled on the reef and a shark coulda beheaded that 'cuda...
The point? Ahhh, ya never know... the economics of that episode say to me, "a bigger rig with more muscle might have made things work-out better for everyone, if I coulda forced that big critter up outta the reef and then landed, and gently as possible(barracuda are dangerous to de-hook)released that magnificent fish"...
Quote from: Finest Kind on May 12, 2023, 08:32:33 PMFishing from a small private boat with totally stock 113H or 114H we had no problem with BFT up to #150 or so.
Apples and orangutans here, a LR boat can not chase a fish like a private boat can.
Quote from: nelz on May 12, 2023, 10:02:10 PMWow, care to share the story behind the catastrophic failure of this reel?
The wrong reel got thrashed by a cow YFT. We hit the jackpot on plus size YFT, on a October 2005 10 day to the ridge, and everyone on the boat caught at least 1 cow and several got two . My 2 were 217 and 235 pounds. One supper cow was caught and a lot of fish 150# and up. The only reels that did not have issues were Penn Internationals and Avet EXs. This reel went zing POW 30 seconds after the drag was engaged. The frosting on the cake was a 87# wahoo I caught.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/23/1583_11_02_18_7_06_16.jpeg)
I'll take an 87# Wahoo over a cow any day!
Quote from: Keta on May 12, 2023, 11:10:43 PMThis reel went zing POW 30 seconds after the drag was engaged.
Was it a TLD?
Quote from: nelz on May 13, 2023, 12:24:20 AMQuote from: Keta on May 12, 2023, 11:10:43 PMThis reel went zing POW 30 seconds after the drag was engaged.
Was it a TLD?
looks like a tld 50 two speed. those were the worst.
Quote from: alantani on May 13, 2023, 12:28:33 AMlooks like a tld 50 two speed. those were the worst.
Yup, a 50# reel trying to do 130# work.
Quote from: MarkT on May 12, 2023, 11:44:48 PMI'll take an 87# Wahoo over a cow any day!
Yup!
My next goal is a 60# + yellowtail.
Guadalupe would've been a likely place for a 60# YT but who knows if it'll ever open again. I had what I thought was a 50#'er at the Alijos Ridge that when boated was only about 35#. It fought well above its weight class! My best YT is 45#, best Wahoo 53#, best grouper 103#, best BFT 226, best YFT 321#. I'd really like to upgrade the YT and Wahoo!
A 113H could land the YT and Wahoo and maybe the grouper!
I have you beat on BFT and Wahoo, your YFT would be hard to beat, my largest YFT was 258#, largest YT 38#. My largest grooper would have gone 10# if I stuck a few 16oz sinkers down it's throat.
I haven't picked up a 113 yet and all of the suggestions offered on this thread keep me going round and round. To make matters more complicated, I found a deal on a US113n. But of course it is more than $50.
I little about where I'm coming from:
I currently spend most of my spare time and $ riding bicycles and all of my bikes are the older lugged steel racing bicycles-- aka 10 speeds -- no carbon, no fancy shifting gizmos, no disk brakes, etc. When I ride in a challenging event with my old technology, folks tell my that I will have a hard time, I'll wish that I had a newer better bike, I'll probably not finish, etc. But, I always have a great time and always finish the ride faster and fresher than many others who ride modern bikes. When I was racing and riding in fast groups, I did have a concern that my older technology very slightly increased the risk of me causing a mishap within the group and I did use a bike with shifting mechanisms that didn't require me taking my hands off the handlebars.
I wrap my own rods, service my reels, tie my flies and like using my old well cared for stuff -- some of which hasn't been fully tested with big ones. My only worry about fishing with old technology, as pointed out by many of you, is that all my fun with "inappropriate" tackle will interfere with other fishermen's fun. If I loose a fish? Well, that can happen to the best with the best. My son will have all the gadgets and bring in his big one in under a minute and a half. I expect that he will then force one of his other sticks into my hands so I don't miss the second one.
Decisions decisions...a.) Play ignorant and only take my Jigmasters. b.) Pick up a lightly used 90s 113HL. c.) Borrow a 2 speed lever drag to put on one of my rods. d.) Borrow an entire BFT rig.
I'm looking forward to a great time as there is no wrong answer. And as always, I will have a great time second guessing.
I like this guy already.
Class time, i hope you stick around.
I would say for one a good deal on a us113n is something to jump on. Or pass ot along to us so we can jump on it. Bring the 113 with you, give it a shot. but also maybe be willing to use other more appropriate equipment. Best of both worlds. At least that makes sense to me.
Also, I just find that I tend to get more hits on lighter tackle. And I know I'm not alone in that.
One thing no one has mentioned, is that the original 113H (and many with the aftermarket upgrades), is when you target species that are at the upper end of the size of fish you expect the reel to handle, the reel can get extremely hot during the fight.
Isla Guadalupe and Isla Cedros were favorite targets on the closed charters that I was on after 2004. The only 2-speed I owned at the time was a 50SW for trolling. In 2006, I we had a great trip to Isla Guadalupe. The Shogun did not move for four days. The larger YFT were usually just under 100#. I hooked a few in quick succession on my upgraded (frame and drags) 113H, and the side plates got very hot. I sprayed them with my water bottle to cool them off. Since I wanted my fish to be in the best condition possible, I maxed the pressure to get the YFT to the boat quickly. Hot sideplates usually aren't an issue, but it can happen if you max out the drags.
A US113N or Baja Special would not be my first choice. There is a problem with the dog/ratchet at higher loads that can be fixed, but that requires replacing the bridge assembly with the aftermarket Cortez Conversion product.
In the end, it will be easier and cheaper to pick up a good TLD 20 two speed. In my mind, the reel is suitably "old tech" enough to be about as simple to work on and as reliable as a two speed gets. Don't let the broken frames in the TLD 50 LRS (extra wide) photos scare you. The 50LRS is much wider and taller, and fished at much higher drags than the 20. There was a curious design choice that gave the 50 frame a weak spot near the gearbox. Those broken TLD frame stories all seem to be about the 50LRS.
As Alan noted, the TLD 20II is big enough to fish monofilament, which I think is a what defines a saltwater reel as old or new school. Two speeds have been around a long time.
If your heart is set on a 113, you might want to consider the standard 113 with 2:1 gear ratio instead of the 4:1 113H. [CORRECTION: 3.25:1 for the 113H and 4.3:1 for the US113 / Baja Special - thanks to Day0ne for catching this! ]
If I don't get both high and low speed, I am going to choose low speed for big tuna. Plus the lower gear ratio on a star drag means much less stress on the dog system, gear sleeve, and sleeve to handle arm junction, all stress points on the Senator reels. And half the gear ratio means twice the drag for the same clamping load. It won't be so great for working irons, but the hardest part of landing a big fish is the winding, and once you try a low gear ratio, you'll never go back. Plus, while you will get the sideways glances with a 113H on the group trips, you will get the full on smirk as well with the black plated 113 :)
Also in the star drag category, look at some of the old Daiwas that competed with the Penn Senator line. They come stock with aluminum frames and are a bit of a sleeper. Don't own any myself, but there are some fans here that could steer you in the right direction. Bryan was making some aftermarket drag stacks for some models as well.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on May 13, 2023, 04:56:21 PMIf I don't get both high and low speed, I am going to choose low speed for big tuna. .....
....look at some of the old Daiwas that competed with the Penn Senator line.
2X2
I am a Penn fan but in 113-114 class reels the Diawas are far stronger. I have a few laying around that I have serviced and eventualy will sell if you are interested.
I still fish for pacific halibut with slightly modified 349H (6 washer drags) and stock113H and 114H reels and when I lived in Alaska had no problem with large halibut, several well over 6'. Comparing a large halibut to a larger tuna is like night and day and I would never knowingly target larger BFT with mouse gear.
Another consideration that I was told about was friends were on a slow 3 day recently and when they fianly got on biters the first fish hooked was on the wrong gear. The fisherman fought a fish less than 100# for over an hour and the boat lost the school. This cost the others potential fish. With the right gear this fish should have been gaffed in less than 20 minutes.
Sounds like these boats should have mandatory minimum gear requirements to board.
Quote from: jurelometer on May 13, 2023, 04:56:21 PMA US113N or Baja Special would not be my first choice. There is a problem with the dog/ratchet at higher loads that can be fixed, but that requires replacing the bridge assembly with the aftermarket Cortez Conversion product.
In the end, it will be easier and cheaper to pick up a good TLD 20 two speed. In my mind, the reel is suitably "old tech" enough to be about as simple to work on and as reliable as a two speed gets. Don't let the broken frames in the TLD 50 LRS (extra wide) photos scare you. The 50LRS is much wider and taller, and fished at much higher drags than the 20. There was a curious design choice that gave the 50 frame a weak spot near the gearbox. Those broken TLD frame stories all seem to be about the 50LRS.
As Alan noted, the TLD 20II is big enough to fish monofilament, which I think is a what defines a saltwater reel as old or new school. Two speeds have been around a long time.
If your heart is set on a 113, you might want to consider the standard 113 with 2:1 gear ratio instead of the 4:1 113H. If I don't get both high and low speed, I am going to choose low speed for big tuna. Plus the lower gear ratio on a star drag means much less stress on the dog system, gear sleeve, and sleeve to handle arm junction, all stress points on the Senator reels. And half the gear ratio means twice the drag for the same clamping load. It won't be so great for working irons, but the hardest part of landing a big fish is the winding, and once you try a low gear ratio, you'll never go back. Plus, while you will get the sideways glances with a 113H on the group trips, you will get the full on smirk as well with the black plated 113 :)
Also in the star drag category, look at some of the old Daiwas that competed with the Penn Senator line. They come stock with aluminum frames and are a bit of a sleeper. Don't own any myself, but there are some fans here that could steer you in the right direction. Bryan was making some aftermarket drag stacks for some models as well.
-J
FYI, the 113 has much smaller drags compared to the 113H and the stock 113H is 3.25:1, not 4:1 The Daiwa 400H is a nice reel and much stronger than the 113H. Already has an aluminum frame and sideplates. The Daiwa's have much less aftermarket parts available.
Quote from: day0ne on May 13, 2023, 06:26:47 PMQuote from: jurelometer on May 13, 2023, 04:56:21 PMA US113N or Baja Special would not be my first choice. There is a problem with the dog/ratchet at higher loads that can be fixed, but that requires replacing the bridge assembly with the aftermarket Cortez Conversion product.
In the end, it will be easier and cheaper to pick up a good TLD 20 two speed. In my mind, the reel is suitably "old tech" enough to be about as simple to work on and as reliable as a two speed gets. Don't let the broken frames in the TLD 50 LRS (extra wide) photos scare you. The 50LRS is much wider and taller, and fished at much higher drags than the 20. There was a curious design choice that gave the 50 frame a weak spot near the gearbox. Those broken TLD frame stories all seem to be about the 50LRS.
As Alan noted, the TLD 20II is big enough to fish monofilament, which I think is a what defines a saltwater reel as old or new school. Two speeds have been around a long time.
If your heart is set on a 113, you might want to consider the standard 113 with 2:1 gear ratio instead of the 4:1 113H. If I don't get both high and low speed, I am going to choose low speed for big tuna. Plus the lower gear ratio on a star drag means much less stress on the dog system, gear sleeve, and sleeve to handle arm junction, all stress points on the Senator reels. And half the gear ratio means twice the drag for the same clamping load. It won't be so great for working irons, but the hardest part of landing a big fish is the winding, and once you try a low gear ratio, you'll never go back. Plus, while you will get the sideways glances with a 113H on the group trips, you will get the full on smirk as well with the black plated 113 :)
Also in the star drag category, look at some of the old Daiwas that competed with the Penn Senator line. They come stock with aluminum frames and are a bit of a sleeper. Don't own any myself, but there are some fans here that could steer you in the right direction. Bryan was making some aftermarket drag stacks for some models as well.
-J
FYI, the 113 has much smaller drags compared to the 113H and the stock 113H is 3.25:1, not 4:1 The Daiwa 400H is a nice reel and much stronger than the 113H. Already has an aluminum frame and sideplates. The Daiwa's have much less aftermarket parts available.
Thanks for the correction on the the gear ratio. 3.25:1 on the 113H and 4.3:1 on the US113/Baja Special. I'll go back and edit my post.
The larger the main gear, the larger diameter available for the drag washer, but the additional leverage from the higher gear ratio makes that a wash. You need more torque for the same amount of drag with the higher ratio.
-J
Apples and orangutans here, a LR boat can not chase a fish like a private boat can.
Yes, I am amazed at the fish you West coast guys catch from party boats. The size of the YFT. Anything over #100 is noteworthy around here. That type of fishing is not well developed here in the NE. There are a few local party boats that make a few offshore overnight trips during the season, I have been on a couple.I would not recommend them.
John
Quote from: Finest Kind on May 13, 2023, 08:56:01 PMApples and orangutans here, a LR boat can not chase a fish like a private boat can.
Yes, I am amazed at the fish you West coast guys catch from party boats. The size of the YFT. Anything over #100 is noteworthy around here. That type of fishing is not well developed here in the NE. There are a few local party boats that make a few offshore overnight trips during the season, I have been on a couple.I would not recommend them.
John
Me too! Snapper are the target for most of the party boats in the Gulf of Mexico. I call them meat boats. Snapper fishing is boring IMO. I won't go again.
What's new to me, is the "consideration of others" aspect in gear selection. Because of the crowded conditions, one must select the class of gear used
in addition to considering the class of fish expected to be hooked. Similar to crowded pier fishing, just on a different scale and setting.
Pardon my ignorance because I am. I'm a surf guy and have always had miles of elbow room. I stay off the piers because of the crowds...and the territorial issues. I've been on the boats and slid in the puke.
I run the chance of hooking 7'+ bull sharks every time I throw bait...no matter what is holding my line. I can't restrict my gear to 9/0 and up in case I "might". I have to take my chances and deal with the consequences.
You LR boat guys have a temperament I do not possess. I'm too much of a loner. Hats off to you for what you do. I appreciate the new perspective!
QuoteMe too! Snapper are the target for most of the party boats in the Gulf of Mexico. I call them meat boats. Snapper fishing is boring IMO. I won't go again.
Well, there is snapper fishing and there is snapper fishing. I think that one of the great challenges in fishing in yanking a decent size snapper out of the rocks in shallows on a fly rod or light tackle. I will take a shot at a 40 lb dog snapper over a 200lb yellowfin tuna any day.
-J
Quote from: Shellbelly on May 14, 2023, 12:41:41 AMWhat's new to me, is the "consideration of others" aspect in gear selection. Because of the crowded conditions, one must select the class of gear used in addition to considering the class of fish expected to be hooked. Similar to crowded pier fishing, just on a different scale and setting.
Pardon my ignorance because I am. I'm a surf guy and have always had miles of elbow room. I stay off the piers because of the crowds...and the territorial issues. I've been on the boats and slid in the puke.
Shellbelly,
On one of my ill-fated offshore party boat trips, a guy comes on with a 9' spinning rod, spooled with 15 or 20 lb mono. We will be fishing for BFT, probably 80 anglers on a 100' boat. We limited out, 80 or so guys times 4 tuna apiece, the bad old days. Pool fish was about #125.The guy with the spinning rod was tangling everyone on the boat. I have a fish on, and the spinning guy, who is directly opposite me on the other side of the boat starts yelling he's got one! Mate gaffs my fish, with Mr. Spinners line all wound up in my leader. The mate gets a gleam in his eye and ties the guys line to the rail. We can see him battling the keel through the cabin windows. Eventually his line breaks, a disappointment, but what a story! That fish had to be 100' long
John
🤣Good and funny story. "Mr. Spinners"🤪. 80 guy's on 100' boat, great fishing, you just gotta have some fun.
Quote from: jurelometer on May 14, 2023, 02:06:26 AMWell, there is snapper fishing and there is snapper fishing.
Yep. I've had some fun with Vermillions, a few Lanes, and Greys. They're incidental for me when I'm hunting sheepshead around the jetty in spring. I've never kept any and none have been much more than pan-size.
This tread is off the hook,,,,, ;) I'm known for using the wrong grear,,,,,, ??? It's fun,,, ;) but when it comes down to it,,, you don't want to hook the fish of a lifetime and be under gunned,,,, >:( wanting to build a 4/0 and pushing it to it's limits is great,,,, :-\ but really I should have got a raptor and been down with it,,,,, ;D
No one here is suggesting huge reels, my minimum recommendation would be a Avet HX Raptor or Penn Fathom 40NLD2 size 2 speed reel. For plus plus size BFT a Avet EX 30, Mak 30 or Penn International 20 size reel.
These "what do you think..." topics are really very good reading. I'm being serious. Folks spill their guts trying to help. Naturally, there will be differing opinions, but every response is intended to help and I believe we all learn something every time. 8)
If I want to learn how to catch bluegill with a 14/0 or BFT with a spinner 33, I know where to ask and it'll be fun.
Quote from: Shellbelly on May 16, 2023, 06:39:36 PMThese "what do you think..." topics are really very good reading. I'm being serious. Folks spill their guts trying to help. Naturally, there will be differing opinions, but every response is intended to help and I believe we all learn something every time. 8)
If I want to learn how to catch bluegill with a 14/0 or BFT with a spinner 33, I know where to ask and it'll be fun.
If you want to catch a LMB on a 20/0 Benni is the one to ask 🤣
Quote from: Bill B on May 17, 2023, 05:38:27 AMIf you want to catch a LMB on a 20/0 Benni is the one to ask 🤣
Everybody's got their own bucket list! ;D
I appreciate all the advice. Now I'm looking at a pair of reels: 113hlw and a 114hl. The price is very good so I'm thinking, in the event of BFT, 40 pound mono on the 113 and a Truline 6'8" 20-50 rod and 60 or 80 pound on the 114 with the Seeker 550. I intend to spend most of the day with my Jigmasters and the YT but there is a chance to do a dropper or yo yo on the BFT.
(Clean, grease, oil, and new drag washers right away and SS sleeves later.)
Question: The two reels I'm looking at have red spools and the pictures don't clearly show a clicker. Do these models have clickers and is the red spool more or less as nice as the black ones?
That both have clickers. The red spools are the same as the black ones, that made them red on their anniversary models
I wouldn't put the 114 on the 550, something shorter would be better. The 113 would be a little big for it but doable
I would take the red spools off and put them in a safe place.
I'll trade you a black or a chromed brass spool for a red one if you get it and still have reservations about it. 8)
Someone beat me to those red spooled reels. Now I'm going to see a 114H with ONE-PIECE ALUMINUM FRAME. I know I've drifted off the 113 query but I'm hoping that someone can tell me what I should inspect before I hand over my money. I've already read on here to make sure the side plate screws can back out of the aluminum frame. Anything else?
that and general function and you will be fine.
Todd
Word of advice from painful personal experience. If you're looking at a good deal on something uncommon, or something rare coming up for sale in general... Don't post about it here until you've sealed the deal or someone will beat you to it. I doubt its the ohana, but lots of folks read here that don't post. Including potentially the seller who now knows the value of the item.
Every single time I've ever asked a question publicly about something for sale locally its gone before i can get it. Maybe that's just me.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on May 18, 2023, 09:14:10 PMEvery single time I've ever asked a question publicly about something for sale locally its gone before i can get it. Maybe that's just me.
nop, you're not the 1st person saying that
Yep. Jason got me worried but for naught. I haven't opened it up yet but it feels fine and looks sharp for $50.
IMG_8832.jpegIMG_8833.jpegIMG_8834.jpeg
I'll read through the pertinent threads, disassemble, clean, grease, new blue 60# Izorline from Pete's, and put it on my 550 for the fat chance at a BFT. If in the future, I feel the need for something between this and my Jigmasters, I'll revisit this thread.
Thanks ALL
Jeff
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on May 18, 2023, 09:14:10 PMDon't post about it here until you've sealed the deal or someone will beat you to it.
A good thing that happens here is once folks know what you're interested in, you're likely to get a PM letting you know something is available. I've had this happen twice and each time resulted in getting good deals on scarce items. Now I try to pay attention to what's going on and do the same for others.
Ok I got 2 built 4/0's but,,, ;) I just should have got a hxj raptor,,,,,,, ;D
You paid $50 for that? I'll give you $60 right now! Well done. :d
So when do we get to see pics of some of your other builds?
Quote from: Shellbelly on May 19, 2023, 02:35:25 AMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on May 18, 2023, 09:14:10 PMDon't post about it here until you've sealed the deal or someone will beat you to it.
A good thing that happens here is once folks know what you're interested in, you're likely to get a PM letting you know something is available. I've had this happen twice and each time resulted in getting good deals on scarce items. Now I try to pay attention to what's going on and do the same for others.
Anyone looking to get rid of a baja for a price my wife would approve of?
Depends on your wife.
I picked up the Newell 349H for a low ball stock 349H price because seller was clueless. I was the only bidder.
Quote from: Keta on May 19, 2023, 03:00:36 AMI picked up the Newell 349H for a low ball stock 349H price because seller was clueless. I was the only bidder.
It was meant to be yours. That's what I believe when that happens. You can't be the only person in the world who knew what that was.
"Vintage Deep Sea Reel"
Nice 6/0 Senator, Classtime. Interesting, they use just 5 screws/side with the full frame. I'll give you $70, HA! Naw, that's a keeper. How are ball bearings?
I haven't opened it this 114H yet but it spins pretty good.
And I haven't done much more than clean, replace drag washers, and lubricate my other reels. There is a 5+1 Ultimate kit on my bench intended for a stock 501 but I'm afraid to put it in until I get a SS sleeve. I picked up a matched pair of HS Jigmasters for the price of their Tiburon frames but they were so well maintained that I closed 'em up as they came to me. A part of me hopes a reel or two blows up on me during next weeks 1-Day so I can play hotrodder😀
Quote from: Keta on May 19, 2023, 03:23:14 AM"Vintage Deep Sea Reel"
Yep! and "old fishing stuff".
Quote from: Classtime on May 19, 2023, 12:24:31 PMI haven't opened it this 114H yet but it spins pretty good.
And I haven't done much more than clean, replace drag washers, and lubricate my other reels. There is a 5+1 Ultimate kit on my bench intended for a stock 501 but I'm afraid to put it in until I get a SS sleeve. I picked up a matched pair of HS Jigmasters for the price of their Tiburon frames but they were so well maintained that I closed 'em up as they came to me. A part of me hopes a reel or two blows up on me during next weeks 1-Day so I can play hotrodder😀
Any update on how you did? Bill