It all started when I decided to buy a vintage DAM 440N. You know, the one with the asbestos drag discs. Now, being born in the 00s, I never had to worry about asbestos exposure till the postman handed me the package containing my reel. It took quite a bit of assurance from members over on the DAM Quick thread to assauge my concerns. Still, when spooling the 440N for a fishing trip next week, the fear of microscopic needles rattling around, poking holes in my lungs remained in the back of my head.
The way I understand asbestos is that its like smoking. There isn't a safe exposure, just like how breathing in 2nd hand smoke isn't particularly healthy, but not likely to give me a tumour 50 years down the road. Plus, its just 2 brakes discs contained in a spool. Its not much, especially compared to those guys in the mines where asbestos blanketed the floor like a layer of snow.
And its got me thinking: to me, 2 asbestos washers feels like a death warrant, but I have yet to meet the fisherman afraid to handle lead with his bare hands. Heck, I see so many people buying sinker moulds that I'm getting tempted to smelt lead myself. Even better: I don't know how you Californians deal with it, but apparently even the hooks and leader cause cancer in your state!
As a guy not even in his twenties, I'm curious about what the older guys think about these things. I am seriously afraid of dying, and I sure as heck do not want my cause of death to be "DAM Quick Drag Washer" or "6 ounce lead sinker"!
Edit: The old DAMs are really cool reels and I'm getting another to fill a hole in my lineup.
LOL you'll be fine. Unless asbestos becomes particulate and airborne you have nothing to fear.
Watch out for meteors.
I am 70 and worked in industries that used asbestos, acids and other things that will cause long term health issues. I also played with mercury with my bare hands.
So far my health has been good.
Don't go out of your way to expose your self to toxins but do not let fearanoia control your life.
BTW, the food we eat and our tap water is most likely worse for us than crimping splitshots with our teeth.
First off, I'm thrilled to know that There's folks on here younger than myself. I really thought at 36 i am the spring chicken around here.
There's nothing wrong with wondering these things. In fact it's probably unwise to dismiss such concerns out of hand. It's easy for a 75 year old retiree to say they're not concerned about the risks. You've got a lot of life left to live.
There's some argument that the dangers of asbestos were overblown for most of the varieties that were commonly used, outside of the military. And my understanding is that the risks are also driven by prolonged exposure. Servicing your drag every now and then probably doesn't count as prolonged exposure.
I personally have no interest in smelting my own lead. And there are chemicals i won't work with at all because the risk isn't worth it.
It seems very common for reel technicians to die of cancer, but too many of them smoke or used to smoke, so it's hard to draw conclusions.
If you're worried about your drags, only work on it outdoors. Wear gloves, and don't lean in for a sniff, regardless how curious you are about what it smells like.
If you're really worried and wanna change, take them out and measure them, while using proper protective measures. And if you have a USA shipping address, pm me those measurements with your mailing address and I'll get you new carbon disks at no cost.
it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye!!!
but I got over my fear of those really sharp, pointy hooks ;)
Age has nothing to do with it.
Do not go out of your way to expose yourself to toxins, like spraying insecticide and herbicide around your home and eating highly processed sugar and fat laced foods.
I do not want to look up the statistics but I would bet sugar, alcohol, recreational drugs, and several other "common" things kill far more people in our country than asbestos, cars and drugs far more.
Dihydrogen monoxide kills people all of the time, should we avoid being exposed to it too?
Worrying about a tiny bit of asbestos in drag washers is a little overboard. CF and fiberglass are close to as bad as asbestos. The "household chemicals" under your sinks are far more hazardous than the drag washers. Some of the meds doctors are giving us, and in some cases forcing on us, also kill far more people than asbestos exposure, especially with all of the info out on asbestos and a 50 year ban on it.
A quick cure for asbestos fearinoia about drag washers would be to change out the old washers for greased CF ones.
Quote from: Keta on June 09, 2023, 01:27:29 PMWatch out for meteors.
I am 70 and worked in industries that used asbestos, acids and other things that will cause long term health issues. I also played with mercury with my bare hands.
So far my health has been good.
Don't go out of your way to expose your self to toxins but do not let fearanoia control your life.
BTW, the food we eat and our tap water is most likely worse for us than crimping splitshots with our teeth.
Didn't some scientist die a horrific death playing with mercury with her hands? You have got to be made out of iron.
Quote from: Keta on June 09, 2023, 01:27:29 PMWatch out for meteors.
I am 70 and worked in industries that used asbestos, acids and other things that will cause long term health issues. I also played with mercury with my bare hands.
So far my health has been good.
Don't go out of your way to expose your self to toxins but do not let fearanoia control your life.
BTW, the food we eat and our tap water is most likely worse for us than crimping splitshots with our teeth.
I'm 65 and it sounds like we lived the same life growing up. I also played with mercury with my bare hands, floated pennies in it. It was amazing! Had my head in more ceilings in hospitals with asbestos ceiling tiles than I care to think about. So far,, knock on wood, still healthy. Asbestos drags,,, don't even think about them. Nothing to worry about.
I'm 70 and like the others we grew up in an age that either didn't know or didn't concern themselves with a lot of dangers. I played with mercury. It's pretty cool. I also remember using asbestos to mold ashtrays and whatnot in grade school. Try that now days LOL. We washed our hands in gasoline and solvents, drank and smoked like a chimney and somehow my lungs and liver survived though I did quit smoking in 1974. Being careful is smart and a good thing. Just don't turn it into a phobia.
As was mentioned, the drag washers are no threat to you unless your doing something to create fibres or dust and then just wear a mask.
Relax and enjoy your new hobby.
Quote from: Lunker Larry on June 09, 2023, 04:40:35 PMI'm 70 and like the others we grew up in an age that either didn't know or didn't concern themselves with a lot of dangers. I played with mercury. It's pretty cool. I also remember using asbestos to mold ashtrays and whatnot in grade school. Try that now days LOL. We washed our hands in gasoline and solvents, drank and smoked like a chimney and somehow my lungs and liver survived though I did quit smoking in 1974. Being careful is smart and a good thing. Just don't turn it into a phobia.
As was mentioned, the drag washers are no threat to you unless your doing something to create fibres or dust and then just wear a mask.
Relax and enjoy your new hobby.
They let you play with mercury back in the day? How did you get it? I don't reckon the toy store would just have a couple of vials lying around.
Where do all the asbestos horror stories come from? Every time I search about asbestos on social media there's a lot of people sharing about how someone died painfully from asbestos-induced cancer.
Quote from: Barishi on June 09, 2023, 04:53:53 PMThey let you play with mercury back in the day? How did you get it? I don't reckon the toy store would just have a couple of vials lying around.
don't know what others did, but I "accidently" broke thermometers... hours of cheap entertainment
("toy source" discovered by pouring boiling water on it to "raise my temperature for school") ::)
The health nuts sure do have you paranoid! ::) If you read the labels on everything everyone in CA should probably be dead by now! :o Carefulness and moderation of exposure is the key. ;)
Didn't some scientist die a horrific death playing with mercury with her hands? You have got to be made out of iron.
[/quote]
Barishi- you might be thinking of Marie Curie. She died of radiation poisoning after a lifetime of research on Radium. Won a Nobel prize for her work. If I were to take the California warning labels seriously I would have to give up fishing. But by those standards, what really is safe? I try to use common sense, like I wash my hands after I work on tackle and before I eat anything. Also, is it my imagination, or are the warning labels getting longer and longer? Come on!
John
Quote from: Lunker Larry on June 09, 2023, 04:40:35 PM......... We washed our hands in gasoline and solvents,....
you're saying we're not supposed to use gasoline to wash out greasy hands after a whole morning working on the car (back in the day when you can fix your own car), now when the car dont want to start up I just open the hood and look at the motor and tons of electronics and cables and say, nothing to do here ^-^ ^-^
Quote from: Finest Kind on June 09, 2023, 06:28:31 PM.If I were to take the California warning labels seriously I would have to give up fishing...
just move to Arizona or New Mexico, they dont have the tons of laws and restrictions of California.
Quote from: Barishi on June 09, 2023, 04:53:53 PMDidn't some scientist die a horrific death playing with mercury with her hands? You have got to be made out of iron.
More like lard.
Marie Curie died from radium but I have never heard of anyone dying from liquid METALLIC mercury poisoning. Organic mercury and fumes are highly toxic.
Quote from: Barishi on June 09, 2023, 04:53:53 PMThey let you play with mercury back in the day? How did you get it? I don't reckon the toy store would just have a couple of vials lying around.
Where do all the asbestos horror stories come from? Every time I search about asbestos on social media there's a lot of people sharing about how someone died painfully from asbestos-induced cancer.
I have a 20# bottle of mercury my sock drawer now. When I was 12 I was dissolving it in nitric acid to recover gold, I recovered the mercury by dissolving aluminum foil in the acid.
Most asbestos health problems were caused by exposure to massive amounts of airborne fibers or naturally occurring fibers in drinking water.
Do not let anything here cause you to do stupid things but do not believe everything you are told, especial from the government. Be safe and smart around asbestos, as well as any other chemicals.
And always be careful around dihydrogen monoxide, it kills far more people than asbestos and is found everywhere.
Quote from: steelfish on June 09, 2023, 06:38:51 PMQuote from: Finest Kind on June 09, 2023, 06:28:31 PM.If I were to take the California warning labels seriously I would have to give up fishing...
just move to Arizona or New Mexico, they dont have the tons of laws and restrictions of California.
I live 20 miles north of the border, the OR/CAL border, and often wonder if things "Known to Cause Cancer in the State of California" might not know where the border is.
glad your are safe living 20 miles away from Cali, good move.
I'm 76 and still fishing offshore. I also played with mercury as a kid. It sure made nickels look pretty. I also washed greasy hands in whatever solvent was handy. Using most social media is probably the worst way to search for asbestos problems. (not talking about here) There is a boatload of misinformation on the web. Some people seem to like to induce fear. Are there dangers out in the real world? Yes. You could fall in the water fishing and drown. Does this mean you should stop fishing? Your decision but I vote NO.
Asbestos issues I think primarily arose from installers and demolition or removal. It was used as a fire retardant: sprayed on ceilings etc or used to wrap pipes in buildings or ships et al. Navy ships had it on everything. Not an issue unless disturbed.
Remember, it provided a tremendous safety function and was everywhere until Asbestos is raised its head.
I think the drag discs aren't pure asbestos and your chance of exposure is very low.
Thanks for the responses guys. I'm not so afraid of the drag discs as I once was, I started this thread because I thought it was absurd that nobody batted an eye to handling lead on a regular basis and the cancer warning labels on all fishing tackle. I remember when I was a complete novice sorting through hooks at the tackle store till I could find one without the cancer logo. If I'm not wrong, that warning is for all items that have not been proven to not cause cancer?
The organic mercury death case is about a scientist named Karen Wetterhahn who died horribly by spilling 2 drops of the stuff on her hand. Marie Curie's case is radium poisoning. Back in the 20s and 30s the dangers of radium certainly weren't well known for most people.
The radium girls come to mind. Pretty scary what they did with the stuff knowing what we know today. Guess there's a reason everybody today is living longer.
And keep in mind I believe many a GI contracted issues from turning their watch inside out (watch face directly against skin) so that they would not be emitting light at night that could give away their position. The choice being lead poisoning in the form of high velocity pellets vs. radiation that nobody understood at the time.
Doing a brake or clutch job? Blowing everything with compressed air probably a bad idea....But one of my pet peeves in gardening circles is that folks think Diatomaceous Earth is a panacea for pest issues, and is "harmless". As a guy who used to work with it all the time - probably just as hazardous as asbestos - fine particles that once inhaled our lungs cannot get rid of, and float in the air in suspension as fine dust.
As far as mercury in elementary school (I'm that old) we had "quicksilver" that the teacher would do demonstrations with, and it was pretty easy to get, for example when you sent away for a "Science Lab Kit" that you found in the ad section of Boy's Life magazine....
Quote from: Barishi on June 10, 2023, 12:48:18 AMThe ORGANIC mercury death case is about a scientist named Karen Wetterhahn who died horribly by spilling 2 drops of the stuff on her hand.
ORGANIC mercury is not metalic mercury.
This is why people are living longer booring lives.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/37/1583-100623034516.jpeg)
If you live in a house that was built or remodeled between 1940 and the mid 1990s chances are pretty high that you are living in the midst of some form of asbestos. All drywall and drywall joint compounds prior to about 1990 or so was fortified with asbestos. Drywallers, tapers and sanders were well know for having asbestos complications. Heck, even linoleum and its glue were fortified with asbestos. The big asbestos shakeup in homebuilding materials came around 1989. It took a little while before asbestos was completely removed from the materials but it's still in all those houses built and remodeled prior to that time frame.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on June 10, 2023, 05:06:47 AMIf you live in a house that was built or remodeled between 1940 and the mid 1990s chances are pretty high that you are living in the midst of some formal asbestos. All drywall and drywall joint compounds prior to about 1990 or so was fortified with asbestos. Drywallers, tapers and sanders were well know for having asbestos complications. Heck, even linoleum and its glue were fortified with asbestos. The big asbestos shakeup in homebuilding materials came around 1989. It took a little while before asbestos was completely removed from the materials but it's still in all those houses built and remodeled prior to time frame.
Ah, not an issue. The lead paint holds it all in place. 😜😅
Too many "voters" ate paint chips when they were kids.
Here's the thing. Y'all handled mercury and worked with all the other stuff we know to be careful with. And you're still here. Thankfully.
But can all your classmates say the same?
Quote from: Lunker Larry on June 10, 2023, 01:10:12 PMQuote from: Midway Tommy on June 10, 2023, 05:06:47 AMIf you live in a house that was built or remodeled between 1940 and the mid 1990s chances are pretty high that you are living in the midst of some formal asbestos. All drywall and drywall joint compounds prior to about 1990 or so was fortified with asbestos. Drywallers, tapers and sanders were well know for having asbestos complications. Heck, even linoleum and its glue were fortified with asbestos. The big asbestos shakeup in homebuilding materials came around 1989. It took a little while before asbestos was completely removed from the materials but it's still in all those houses built and remodeled prior to time frame.
Ah, not an issue. The lead paint holds it all in place. 😜😅
Lead in the paint
Lead in the makeup
Asbestos in the walls
In the pipes, the cars
CFCs in the sprays
Arsenic in the glue
Mercury in the toys
What a time to be alive.
To be fair though, no exposure beats not enough exposure.
I imagine you could remove the washers with the spool submerged in water. Just a thought.
WELL, Well, well... plenty of toxic exposure experts here. "Oh please tell me(Gfish) how to live my life so I don't suffer and die from poisoning myself"! All this time and I never knew it could be so simple; just don't think/worry about it.
Asbestos kinda sucks for drag washers, compared to carbon fiber. Can the spool be opened-up for washer replacement? If not, I'd try and get as much grease on 'em as possible.
Quote from: Barishi on June 10, 2023, 02:09:35 PMLead in the paint
Lead in the makeup
Asbestos in the walls
In the pipes, the cars
CFCs in the sprays
Arsenic in the glue
Mercury in the toys
What a time to be alive.
To be fair though, no exposure beats not enough exposure.
AND we had lawn darts! :o AND we juggled 'em on playgrounds that
were concrete/steel gauntlets, rather than rubberized coddling stations
I think there was a special, extra-hard/abrasive grade of concrete
reserved for use under swings & monkey bars ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: philaroman on June 10, 2023, 03:36:41 PMQuote from: Barishi on June 10, 2023, 02:09:35 PMLead in the paint
Lead in the makeup
Asbestos in the walls
In the pipes, the cars
CFCs in the sprays
Arsenic in the glue
Mercury in the toys
What a time to be alive.
To be fair though, no exposure beats not enough exposure.
AND we had lawn darts! :o AND we juggled 'em on playgrounds that
were concrete/steel gauntlets, rather than rubberized coddling stations
I think there was a special, extra-hard/abrasive grade of concrete
reserved for use under swings & monkey bars ;D ;D ;D
The oldest playground in my country has sand flooring. The soft flooring is god's gift though, I used to jump 2 meters from the top of the slide onto the floor when I was 5. Landed on my back without issues.
This has been quite an interesting, entertaining and hilarious thread! ;D Thanks for all the chuckles! ;)
Lee has the quote of the day, though.. 8) .."Too many "voters" ate paint chips when they were kids." :al
Quote from: Barishi... Back in the 20s and 30s the dangers of radium certainly weren't well known for most people...
Ever heard of Radithor?
The stuff of nightmares...
.
Funny how this pops up on TV the same time we have this thread. This is a concern in the U.S. and Canada.
Asbestos cement city water pipes. Check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMWPF6cUq3Q
And there is still lots of lead pipe.
I have been rolling on the floor laughing my backside off! Sadly, everything that has been said is true! I lived through it all and thank heavens, I still feel fine!
I will have to say, I am thankful for all those warning tags on all the electronics telling us not to use them in the bathtub! Ho would have guessed?😳
I still worry about cancer whenever I get close to or cross the CA border.
once I sprained my pinky in the rotary phone dial, as I dashed to the pre-remote TV ::)
Nice little documentary L.L. Thanks for posting that. Kinda seems like there'd be less of a chance of that kinda B.S. happening in Canada with the much lower population level(i.e., they'd take care of it instead of all the political/$ denial crap like we do down here).
Always liked TV shows from Canada. Do they still have "The Nature of Things"? Used to watch it in the 90's on cable.
Time to stick my head back in the sand now...
QuoteAlways liked TV shows from Canada. Do they still have "The Nature of Things"? Used to watch it in the 90's on cable
Sure is. Been going since 1960. David Suzuki retired from the show this year but it's still going strong.
Ha ha ha ha, I thought I was the only phobe round here lol!
I can tell you this, if you keep worrying about all this, you'll likely die from an early age from worrying yourself to death!
My mother was a serious, worry wart, and passed away from a heart attack at the age of 56, never drank, never smoked, nothing! She always went to the doctor, looked completely, healthy and was a complete angel!
And my father died a year later, do believe from a broken heart, he missed her so much!
My old man, would do whatever he had to do to fix something, back, then there wasn't all these warnings/people to let you know how dangerous things were!
I will have to admit, that sometimes it is absolutely overboard, everything's toxic!
I think everybody's home had a place where you weren't supposed to go and play with the chemicals, that was my favorite place lol!
Are used to grab a frisbee and a tube of this shiny silver stuff, that if you bounced it into the frisbee, it would separate all over into a nice little round balls everywhere!
Then, if you grabbed it and rolled it, it would all go back into a mysteriously round ball again, even used to put it in my mouth and spit it into the frisbee to see if it would do it again lol!
Hmmmmm!!!, sounds like I was playing with liquid mercury lol!
So that was well over 40 years ago!
If you follow every label, you read, you will never leave your home, and enjoy your life!
Don't know where you live, but in some places
They merely want you to go to work and stay home and pay your taxes and not enjoy your life!
I would think, that if you used just plain common sense, you will make out just fine!
I can tell you this, I have been exposed to so so many things that I didn't know about!
Sanding/ painting houses with old old paint and sheet rock, no mask, no windows open!
Hanging out and playing around dumps and landfills, and definitely saw some shocking stuff, but we just kept on playing lol!
Going back and smashing old two TVs with pipes at the dump and I mean smashing!
At one time in my life, I was pretty messed up and lived this way. I was literally afraid to walk out my door!
I should not be here on this earth still, been in multiple violent car accidents, and some other super crazy incidents, where your average person had no chance to live, and walked away unscathed! Now, I did collapse my lungs, but I consider that nothing, to I went through during that last accident!
I've come to realize, that it doesn't matter what you do brother, when it's your time, it's your time my friend!
Thank God, I'm a Leo, and had nine lives, I think, I only have about two or three left though!
My take is, try not to sweat the small stuff, you're only here on this earth for so long, try to be vigilant, but worry about stuff that really needs to be worried about and go live your life to the fullest!
Sincerely
Matt
How about xylene or xylol (my spelling may be off). For a few years I was the maintenance guy for a chain of roller skating rinks that had uerothane floor skating surface. Each summer the rinks would close for 3-4 days for resurfacing. The old floor had to be sanded with large orbital Sanders. The dust was everywhere. Then for resurfacing, the "rink cote" came in 5 gallon buckets and the catalyst was a 50/50 mix of liquid plastic and xylol and each bucket had to be well stirred with a large drill with paddle bit for 15 minutes, then let rest for 1 hour to allow bubbles to escape. Each rink took about (12)5 gallon buckets to do the entire floor. The liquid eurothane was then poured on in a 4-5' wide puddle the length of the rink floor, then a 3' squeegee was used to spread it paper thin across the whole floor. I would do 3 coats. They did supply me with a scary looking gas mask, but I noticed the mask filters were not for fumes, only for dust, so I never wore the mask. At the end of each job, I was light headed and somewhat giggly from breathing the fumes. I did 5 rinks in 5 days one summer and it left me feeling light headed for a week or so. I finally quit and got combination license and a job driving big rig. All I can say is I was young and dumb. Needless to say, I am still sucking air and fishing, and try to keep my distance from chemicals.
A lot of fish have mercury, but most is stored in the grey fat line and easy to trim off. A can of starkist tuna still says pregnant woman should not eat starkist more than twice a week. Yep, it's the mercury
Good stories, Matt & Ted.
Maybe it would come down to an individual person's constitution at the given time of exposure. Some resist pathological effects better than others. Also, maybe some are predisposed to more extreme effects because of other diseases that weaken their resistance.
Another pathological factor must be the level of exposure.
Quote from: Keta on June 12, 2023, 12:35:38 AMI still worry about cancer whenever I get close to or cross the CA border.
HA! California is an infectious "state of mind", Lee. My guess would be a 3yr. incubation period if you moved down there.
Last summer the city of Seattle issued a "don't touch the water" alert for their saltwater parks. Really ?? They didn't even mention all the boats fishing that same water. Where I was fishing was only a few miles from Seattle. It's just a fact of life around here. The Puget sound is the toilet for every municipality west of the cascade mountains. 80 sewage treatment plants pump over 400 million gallons of sewage per day into Puget sound, and they do it on flood tides so it stays around till next ebb, and its barely treated sewage because population keeps exploding and sewage plants are outdated and way over capacity. I try not to think about it when I'm fishing locally
Quote from: Maxed Out on June 12, 2023, 10:47:04 PMLast summer the city of Seattle issued a "don't touch the water" alert for their saltwater parks. Really ?? They didn't even mention all the boats fishing that same water. Where I was fishing was only a few miles from Seattle. It's just a fact of life around here. The Puget sound is the toilet for every municipality west of the cascade mountains. 80 sewage treatment plants pump over 400 million gallons of sewage per day into Puget sound, and they do it on flood tides so it stays around till next ebb, and its barely treated sewage because population keeps exploding and sewage plants are outdated and way over capacity. I try not to think about it when I'm fishing locally
ugh.... that must stink to high heaven in the summer days.
Wonder what the Puget Sound salinity is like. Saltwater + sunlight is pretty good about breaking down organic waste and killing microbes. Prolly short on sunlight oftentimes...
I own't know, but from what I've seen and heard about, the fishing outside of Honolulu on Oahu, seems to be much better than here. I've always thought it might have to do with the water being more "wastewater" fertilized from that giant concentrated people population over there.
Poured a lot of lead back in the day not worrying about fumes and dust, and should have. These days I'm a lot better (tho not perfect) about wearing PPE like gloves, etc. when handling things. Agree with above, not sure where you are but you are more likely to be killed by a vehicle or drown while fishing than using that DAM. Replace the drags using gloves if you wish, just don't put them on a grinder and inhale until all gone. The same to be said of grinding carbon fiber washers to fit tho- outside with a mask. Alan has his grinder on casters for this. Part of what I do professionally is laboratory chemical hygiene plan evaluation.
Lived in Kalifornia the majority of my life.
The Kalifornia State Rock is Asbestos in it's natural form.
So far so good. ;)
Quote from: philaroman on June 09, 2023, 05:29:05 PMQuote from: Barishi on June 09, 2023, 04:53:53 PMThey let you play with mercury back in the day? How did you get it? I don't reckon the toy store would just have a couple of vials lying around.
don't know what others did, but I "accidently" broke thermometers... hours of cheap entertainment
("toy source" discovered by pouring boiling water on it to "raise my temperature for school") ::)
I remember buying the stuff from a pharmacy when I was around 8 Y old and rubbing it on a brass or copper coin which would then turn silver. It took some rubbing and lasted a week or so before it would become it's proper colour again.
Maybe Jurometer can tell me why/how this works. If I had lived in CA I would probably have been dead by now from all the dangerous substances I touched and inhaled :-\
QuoteMaybe Jurometer can tell me why/how this works.
I have been staying out of this thread because all of the California bashing is wandering toward the border of the no-politics rule.
If y'all want to attract a wider set of members, the wink-wink, nudge-nudge stuff from one side of the political spectrum isn't helping the cause, or promoting ohana for that matter.
-J
I think it's just poking fun at the fact the state had cancer warnings on just about anything. Nothing serious or political.
As we used to say in the military: If you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined 😄
If you jump on one of our weekly Zooms (I think you have already?), you will see plenty of ribbing going on.
I do think there is a bit dog-whistle style politics going on here. "California dysfunction" has been a nonstop subject lately on the angertainment/"news" media for a certain political demographic.
I agree that it is not worth getting bent out of shape over a stray statement or two, even if it is an obvious signal to like minded folk. But too much of this stuff hastens the departure of all but the intolerant like minded, and we end up with just another hostile fishing website full of angry political trolls. Plenty of those out there.
We have a good thing going here. Think of it as being invited to the internet equivalent of a fishermen's party at Alan's garage. All sorts of interesting people from all over the world are there.
Who wants to be _that_ guy? The one who starts dropping hints about "those people".
-J
I just think that the "everything causes cancer in California" thing is pretty funny that even stuff made abroad for Asian markets has their warning labels on them. I'm not familiar with US politics, but the way I see it is like having a family member with a funny quirk.
Quote from: Barishi on June 15, 2023, 01:38:41 AMI just think that the "everything causes cancer in California" thing is pretty funny that even stuff made abroad for Asian markets has their warning labels on them. I'm not familiar with US politics, but the way I see it is like having a family member with a funny quirk.
Here is the non-angertainment history:
The CA warning label came about from a state law that required manufacturers to put a warning label on any product that contained a known toxic substance at levels where health risk was an issue. The idea was to give consumers better information when choosing products, and to incentivize manufacturers to look for less toxic alternatives. So far, so good, and not too heavy handed for a government action.
But then it kind of went sideways: Manufacturers often went with the strategy of "when it doubt, stick a warning label on it" in order to minimize legal liability. The more products that came out with warning labels, the less the stigma for having one on your product, and with so many products labeled, I think you can argue that consumers probably take ALL safety warning labels less seriously, which might put them more at risk from the products that contain the really nasty stuff that needs to be treated with respect.
Since manufacturers don't always know where the product is going to end up, they can decide to label all of it rather than to try to track it, and deal with returns or maybe even lawsuits for unlabeled product that ends up in California.
I don't know the situation well enough to understand if it is just a matter of modifying the law, going back to square one, or that we are better off with it or without the law as is. But I kinda doubt that that we would be better off by not regulating toxic substances at all, and letting the manufacturers decide what is safe enough. An example from this year: they nailed some artificial turf manufacturers for having a high lead content in their product, something you might care about if your kids run around on the stuff.
California has always led the way in combating air/water pollution and toxic substance exposure. They don't always get it right on the first (or second ::) ) legislative attempt, in part by virtue of being the trailblazer.
There is a useful debate to be had on the subject of these warning labels, but that requires a combination of education, intelligence, and open-mindedness. Good luck finding even one of those from the folks trying to make a buck off of riling people up on one side or the other of the political spectrum.
It just takes a bit of time to read up on if folks are interested in learning, and not just looking for something to get angry about.
https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/ (https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/)
-J
Thanks for the information. I just find it hilarious when I see the label on local goods. As long as you are safe and feel safe then its good.
Quote from: jurelometer on June 14, 2023, 11:45:54 PMIf you jump on one of our weekly Zooms (I think you have already?), you will see plenty of ribbing going on.
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-J
....I saw the inside of Alans garage, got cut off and could not connect again.
I gave that one up as I was too stupid to understand or convert the times quoted to SSA time, Gobi tried to explain and when someone in the US did not understand either I decided it was not for me. :d
Fishing itself is preet evenly distributed politically speaking.
But people tend to become more conservative as they age, and collecting vintage tackle is on average more likely to be done by a retiree than a kid. So forum participation seems to skew to the right, likely for that reason.
The path of the moderate is the state of constant frustration.
regarding asbestos, your risk from drag washers is virtually zero. to put it in relative terms, it's about the same as walking in to a room with a bunch of guys that are smoking. it's never zero, but pretty close.
it's a question that we heard commonly when i worked at poison control. the typical mesothelioma lung cancer risk was the result of exposure to a fairly large amount of raw asbestos. the fibers that do the most damage are between 0.1 to 10 millimicrons. these particles are invisible to the naked eye. the big risk was for those working in asbestos mines, shipyards, and old buildings were there was asbestos insulation. firefighters were at particular risk when they were fighting fires in these old buildings and the walls came crashing down, releasing raw asbestos.
it's sad. you think something will help, only to find out that it causes more harm than good. :-\
If you're not pregnant, don't worry about it.
If you are, you have no business being around any of our favorite flavors of petrochemical. :d