Can't get my main gear to engage on my Black Sided Penn 3/0.
I'm a novice reel tech, this is only the second one I've worked on.
But I'm doing everything the way the 2nd Chance Tackle video on YouTube shows (multiple times) and nothing.
Pretty sure it a Yoke/Jack issues but it looks right to me.
Any thoughts?
Try flipping the yoke over
Where are the springs?
Quote from: day0ne on June 19, 2023, 10:26:16 PMWhere are the springs?
Behind the Yoke, there in there.
The springs look fully compressed under the yoke. Can you depress and release the yoke freely?
Quote from: jtwill98 on June 19, 2023, 11:21:46 PMThe springs look fully compressed under the yoke. Can you depress and release the yoke freely?
The springs are good not at all compressed.
I know the angle of the photo deceiving.
It looks good, otherwise. When you put the rest of it together is the spool spool engaging, but the concentric release is not allowing engagement of the main gear. Is this correct? If so, better let one of the Penn experts chime in.
Quote from: jtwill98 on June 20, 2023, 01:16:08 AMIt looks good, otherwise. When you put the rest of it together is the spool spool engaging, but the concentric release is not allowing engagement of the main gear. Is this correct? If so, better let one of the Penn experts chime in.
The spool does not engage, when I free reel the handle side off the frame it sounds great but the main gear is not moving.
Figured I'd put it together to see if spool tension may have something to do with it nothing.
Pull out the pinion gear —- then see if it mates up with the spool —- and that there are no burrs anywhere.
Also, when assembling the reel —- keep the spring-loaded offside spring tensioner adjustment loose —- until you get the frame tightened up —- then, if the pinion is mating OK with the spool —- just tighten it up until there is just slight play in the spool. (Snug —- then back it off a tad.)
Best, Fred
Quote from: Crab Pot on June 20, 2023, 01:25:49 AMQuote from: jtwill98 on June 20, 2023, 01:16:08 AMIt looks good, otherwise. When you put the rest of it together is the spool spool engaging, but the concentric release is not allowing engagement of the main gear. Is this correct? If so, better let one of the Penn experts chime in.
The spool does not engage, when I free reel the handle side off the frame it sounds great but the main gear is not moving.
Figured I'd put it together to see if spool tension may have something to do with it nothing.
A bit tricky for me to understand based on your explanation. If the main gear is not moving when you turn the handle, the problem is not with eccentric or the yoke. These will not come into play on the drive train until the main gear is able to turn. The main gear will only be able to turn from handle rotation when there is compressive force from the drag stack. So if the main does not turn when you turn the handle, something on the on the gear sleeve/ stack assembly is amiss.
The main and pinion are always meshed and engaged, and will always turn with the handle until the drag slips.
If the gears are turning, but you can't get the spool to turn, then the problem is getting the pinion to slide into the spool.
I'll try to explain better.
With the handle side, complete but off the frame, I can reel on the handle and the main gear does not engage.
I felt having the reel complete would make a difference but nothing.
I have triple checked my drag stack and it is correct.
Hmmm,
If the main gear is not turning and you can turn the handle without much tension, then the problem is somewhere on your main shaft ( you do have the star tightened a bit, correct?). The drag stack (when tightened)is what binds the main gear to the main shaft.
If the main gear is jamming and the drag is slipping, it is hard to diagnose, since there is no shaft to hold the pinion in place until the side plates, frame and spool are all assembled together. The reel will not function properly until it is fully assembled, so in this situation, there may not be a problem once a reel is assembled.
At video mark 12:50 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUqCZyNb2zA, did you forget to insert the spacer collar before adding the star nut?
Wish I could post a video, the handle side of the reel is 100% done and ready to put on the frame.
The eccentric moves the pinion in and out as advertised.
There is a part on the schematic, #9 on the exploded view part # 9-66 Spacing Sleve that this reel has but it's external not internal as shown on the schematic. It's too big to install internally for the bridge to fit right. And I know it came off the outside and is the spacer between the plate and drag star.
That spacing sleeve is what I was referring it presses against the plate when the star nut is tighten. Like jurelometer posted it has to be something on the main drive shaft. Was it working before you took it apart?
Mebbe jtwill is on to something.
The spacer (key #9) goes on the shaft at the TOP (handle side) of the stack, right underneath the star (the same as in the schematic at Mystic Reel Parts). Same for all classic Penn star drags. There is a larger diameter hole in the sideplate, so it cannot affect attaching the bridge to the sideplate if assembled in the correct order. The spacer's purpose is to transfer the load from the star to the drag stack.
If you post a photo of the bridge and main gear assembled, it might help.
Jtwill98 and Dave may have it. The gear train on a Penn should always be engaged; pinion to main. Is the drag stack solid when the star is torqued down? That's your connection from the handle to the main gear
Does the ecentric spring belong on the other side. The eccentric is in the wrong position it look like.
Sorry for the delay in response, I have one of those job things, I know a bad word to some of you retired guys!
(I hope to join you in about 3-5 years)
The spacer ID'd as #9 on the Mystic Schematic, Penn part number 9-66, was on the outside of the reel next to the star drag when I bought it as a parts reel. There was never an inside spacer. It was never right but did turn the spool reluctantly when I got.
I've tried to put #9 on the inside but the bridge plate was so high the upper and lower bridge screws couldn't reach the bridge. Maybe I did something wrong? Also when I tried it left an open hole exposing the drag stack to the elements. I don't see an outer bushing/sleave on the Mystic Schematic between the drag stack and the drag star, yet all my other Senators have one. I think that's my problem (?). I'm missing that chrome sleave.
Does anyone know which part number or size that is on a 3/0? It's not shown on schematic.
have you got a jigmaster or any other older Penn conventional? may not be exact but pull the spacer and try it. they should all pretty much fit the sleeve of that reel, maybe different length as there are several lengths to get exact travel but you can at least lock it down and see if it engages.
I think it's this guy 2nd from right up top
Wait a minute!
I think you have the bridge screws mixed up!
This happened to me with my mag power 970!
There's two specific screws out of the four, that have to go into the bridge a certain way!
I accidentally mixed them up and I remember something not working correctly!
There should be two shorter ones and two longer ones!
I remember after I swapped them around, everything was fine!
I just also went and looked and remember somebody changing the spacing sleeve on the reel, with the wrong one as well!
I also took the reel apart, the way I received it!
And that was no Bueno lol!
Or I could just be wrong lol!
Quote from: Crab Pot on June 20, 2023, 11:25:52 PMThe spacer ID'd as #9 on the Mystic Schematic, Penn part number 9-66, was on the outside of the reel next to the star drag when I bought it as a parts reel. There was never an inside spacer. It was never right but did turn the spool reluctantly when I got.
There is no such part as an inside spacer. There is a hard flat washer that goes between the gear sleeve and the bottom of the main gear.
QuoteI've tried to put #9 on the inside but the bridge plate was so high the upper and lower bridge screws couldn't reach the bridge. Maybe I did something wrong? Also when I tried it left an open hole exposing the drag stack to the elements. I don't see an outer bushing/sleave on the Mystic Schematic between the drag stack and the drag star, yet all my other Senators have one. I think that's my problem (?). I'm missing that chrome sleave.
That chrome sleeve is the spacer #9.
Does anyone know which part number or size that is on a 3/0? It's not shown on schematic.
[/quote]
#9
P/N 9-66
If you look at that video you posted, right around the 12:30 mark, you can see watch one being installed.
Here is a step by step from Alan on a standard (black) Senator reel. About half way through, you can see the main gear assembly parts in the proper order.
https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,44.0.html (https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,44.0.html)
Jason,
Those look like part 136 on the Mystic Schematic but my reel drag stack is not accessible from the outside.
But thanks for looking!
ExcessiveAngler,
No that's not it but it's absolutely something I would do... :o
jurelometer,
I'll go look at that.
#9 sure looks like it's on the inside according to the schematic. The one I have, and I'm not saying it's right, rests on the side plate and not on the drag stack.
It think I bought a Franken-Reel. I'm ready to make a parts order and see where that takes me.
All I know is it's a good thing I'm at my desk and not in the garage because this thing would be imbedded in the wall by now.
Schematic is correct.
The one in my reel is not the one below.
Here is the part I ordered off Mystic.
Mystery solved, I hope.
Your eccentric spring is on the wrong side. It should be on the left side. I will pull the cover on mine today to show you.
Quote from: mikeysm on June 22, 2023, 04:42:08 PMYour eccentric spring is on the wrong side. It should be on the left side. I will pull the cover on mine today to show you.
Isn't the eccentric spring anchored in different spots depending on the model, and whether the Senator is a high speed model or not?
And I think that we have established that if the main gear is not turning with the gear sleeve, the eccentric will not be the problem, at least not the current problem.
-J
mikeysm,
Pretty sure I got the eccentric spring in the only place it can go?
You have a 112H you need a 11-99 eccentric jack. The same as the jigmaster. The eccentric jack you have is for a older model.
Quote from: mikeysm on June 23, 2023, 12:05:47 AMYou have a 112H you need a 11-99 eccentric jack. The same as the jigmaster. The eccentric jack you have is for a older model.
11-60 is the correct eccentric jack for a 112, which is what he has. Black side plates.
Quote from: Crab Pot on June 20, 2023, 02:33:49 AMI'll try to explain better.
With the handle side, complete but off the frame, I can reel on the handle and the main gear does not engage.
I felt having the reel complete would make a difference but nothing.
I have triple checked my drag stack and it is correct.
If you assemble it this way does it work ?
I tried to put it in movie form .
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hj-eTeUfbSU
Odd??
Quote from: oldmanjoe on June 23, 2023, 10:48:42 AMI tried to put it in movie form .
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hj-eTeUfbSU
oldmanjoe,
My reel did not have the correct sleeve but I have one coming from Mystic that should do the trick.
Thanks!
One last question whats the part number on the yoke.
Quote from: mikeysm on June 23, 2023, 03:42:25 PMOne last question whats the part number on the yoke.
12-00
That probably says 12-60 which is the correct one
It's alive!
Magic part Number Nine on schematic arrived today and presto, it works like new.
Thanks for all the help.
Quote from: Swami805 on June 19, 2023, 09:51:17 PMTry flipping the yoke over
Even you Swami805! ;) ;D LOL
Cool! So the original #9 drag spacer was too short?
Quote from: Gfish on June 29, 2023, 05:10:16 AMCool! So the original #9 drag spacer was too short?
Didn't have one Gfish.