I've been an unregistered lurker here for a while, now. Congratulations on developing the most informative reel repair site on the net.
I've recently purchased an old chrome spooled 12/0 Senator that was listed as a parts reel. My intent is to repair it and put it into service land-based shark fishing. Purchasing replacement parts new would cost more than buying a complete reel, so I'm in scrounge mode looking for serviceable used parts for the pricier stuff.
When I disassembled the reel I found that the left side plate had a broken section around the rim that was held together by the inner and outer ring. Its missing a handle. One outer ring is split. One inner ring is pretty misshapen. On the clicker side of the spool, its missing the toothed piece. This piece shows on the parts diagram, but I don't see a name or part number.
The parts don't have to be pretty. Just serviceable. I plan to fish it, not set it on a shelf.
So, parts wanted:
12/0, or 14/0 Handle
Left non-handle side plate 27-116
Outer Ring 2-116-O
Inner Ring 2-116-I
Unknown Clicker Component
I greatly appreciate any and all help bringing this old reel back to life. Thanks, Bob
i have some time in the garage tomorrow and i will take a look. alan
oh, and welcome! and thanks for the great avatar!
Quote from: alantani on February 29, 2012, 11:27:53 PM
i have some time in the garage tomorrow and i will take a look. alan
Thanks, Alan. I feel bad jumping straight from registering to asking for help. Hopefully, I'll be able to contribute to the site in some way in the future.
no problem. that's what we're here for!
A very good friend of mine owns a long time reel repair business and I may be able to get some of your listed parts for very cheap..........I'll go see him tomorrow and see what I can come up with.
BTW, if your reel has a chromed spool then it is a 116, the 116L has a black aluminum spool("L" stands for aluminum)
Welcome Bob. I hope you can get your part.
Bryan, you need to come up north and catch a reel fish that you could put in your avatar....and yes we do get a few sunny days in July and August along with some darn good king salmon opportunities. Whatya waitin' fur....and bring Alan with you.
Sorry for the hi-jack.......Back to the topic.
Quote from: Max Doubt on March 01, 2012, 12:56:42 AM
A very good friend of mine owns a long time reel repair business and I may be able to get some of your listed parts for very cheap..........I'll go see him tomorrow and see what I can come up with.
BTW, if your reel has a chromed spool then it is a 116, the 116L has a black aluminum spool("L" stands for aluminum)
That is very generous of you. Thanks.
I'll bet this old reel has an interesting history. You can tell it has been opened up plenty. The right side plate it from a 116A. I wasn't sure on the "L" designation. I remember reading that about the 115 series. Thanks for the info.
Quote from: Bryan Young on March 01, 2012, 01:09:22 AM
Welcome Bob. I hope you can get your part.
I've read enough to know that you play an important role in the success of this site. Thanks, Bryan
i've got a stash of old side plates and rings. there are some big ones in there, but we have to find them first! :-\
Hello Bob, I went to see my parts guy this morning. He does not have an inner ring and I didn't ask about a handle because he probably wanted too much for it, but he does have these parts (all new parts):
clicker sideplate
bearing for clicker sideplate
outer chrome ring
He said a $50 bill would cover those 3 parts, thats at least 30% off retail for those parts.....Just the clicker sideplate retails for $42 + tax without the bearing. If you want the parts I could ship them for an additional $5.
The clicker mechanism is built into the sideplate, so when you buy a new sideplate, your clicker will be 100% new and is included with the price.
Tight Lines, Ted
Quote from: Max Doubt on March 01, 2012, 06:25:27 PM
Hello Bob, I went to see my parts guy this morning. He does not have an inner ring and I didn't ask about a handle because he probably wanted too much for it, but he does have these parts (all new parts):
clicker sideplate
bearing for clicker sideplate
outer chrome ring
He said a $50 bill would cover those 3 parts, thats at least 30% off retail for those parts.....Just the clicker sideplate retails for $42 + tax without the bearing. If you want the parts I could ship them for an additional $5.
The clicker mechanism is built into the sideplate, so when you buy a new sideplate, your clicker will be 100% new and is included with the price.
Tight Lines, Ted
Sounds like a great deal to me! Do you know if this is the bearing for the clicker side plate you mentioned?:
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l78/bobbooth/Fishing/Clicker.jpg)
That's the piece I'm missing that isn't named on the schematic. Starting to worry that the only way to get it is with a spool.
If you want to PM the payment details, that would be great. Thanks Max Doubt.
Maybe we should wait for a reply from Alan and see what he can come up with. The bearing I'm referring to in the parts I listed is the bearing that goes into the clicker sideplate. The spindle you pictured goes into that sideplate bearing.
Alan might have some parts that would work that might save ya some dough from these new parts. I'm sure it might take him a while to rummage thru his garage full of reel stuff.
Oh, and I'm not sure about the part you showed, hopefully it can be located.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1792.msg8660#msg8660 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1792.msg8660#msg8660)
Maybe this could help identify the part. You could also use it to reassemble...if needed.
Quote from: Max Doubt on March 02, 2012, 12:26:39 AM
Maybe we should wait for a reply from Alan and see what he can come up with.
Sounds like a plan to me.
I'm assuming that when the click tongue is engaged it contacts that piece on the spindle. That really is a great price on the side plate, ring and bearing. I wasn't expecting to see anything near that for new parts.
QuoteThe right side plate it from a 116A. I wasn't sure on the "L" designation.
My recollection is that the 116
A is the 10/0 size, and the "L" designates an aluminum spool. It would seem that the reel has two different side plates. This is fine because there were no differences between the 10/0 and 12/0 except the width of the spool, reel seat, and spacer bars.
If I'm interpreting the image correctly, what you are showing is the shaft that comes out of the spool and not the bearing itself. Replacing the bearing is an easy fix, but the shaft can only be removed from the spool with great difficulty (by a machinist). It would be much cheaper to get another spool.
Can you post an image of what you are trying to repair? It's kinda hard to imagine the shaft being cut off since that's a pretty substantial chunk of steel. If it's the very end that's damaged, then it may be possible to weld on an extension and have it turned down. Again, machinist's work, but not as costly as having to replace the entire shaft.
Quote from: Makule on March 02, 2012, 03:31:38 AM
QuoteThe right side plate it from a 116A. I wasn't sure on the "L" designation.
My recollection is that the 116A is the 10/0 size, and the "L" designates an aluminum spool. It would seem that the reel has two different side plates. This is fine because there were no differences between the 10/0 and 12/0 except the width of the spool, reel seat, and spacer bars.
If I'm interpreting the image correctly, what you are showing is the shaft that comes out of the spool and not the bearing itself. Replacing the bearing is an easy fix, but the shaft can only be removed from the spool with great difficulty (by a machinist). It would be much cheaper to get another spool.
Can you post an image of what you are trying to repair? It's kinda hard to imagine the shaft being cut off since that's a pretty substantial chunk of steel. If it's the very end that's damaged, then it may be possible to weld on an extension and have it turned down. Again, machinist's work, but not as costly as having to replace the entire shaft.
The shaft appears to be original and extends to seat fully into the bearing. There is no sign of damage to the shaft, so I assume the toothed piece simply slips onto the shaft. I'll take a photo and post up in the morning. Working graveyard shift tonight.
You are correct on the side plate. The right side plate is from a 10/0, while the spool, spacer bars and etc. are 12/0.
Thanks for the input, Bob
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 02, 2012, 12:33:58 AM
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1792.msg8660#msg8660 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1792.msg8660#msg8660)
Maybe this could help identify the part. You could also use it to reassemble...if needed.
Alto Mare, I don't know How I missed your message. You don't know how much I appreciate the tutorial thread that you linked in your post. This is the first time I have owned or attempted to work on a Senator and you can bet that I found your tutorial before I attempted to tear the reel down. You did a great job on that. I don't see the part in your thread that appears in the schematic. From the exploded diagram it looks like the part goes on the spool shaft on the non-handle side. Does a part go on here?(
Alto Mare's Photo):
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Penn%20Senator%2012%200/Picture145.jpg)
Doesn't the click tongue have to click on something? Or, maybe I am completely off base on how I think it works. I will definitely post some pics when I get home in the morning.
Bob, I'm a complete idiot when it comes to computers and everything associated with them, but Sal has another tutorial that may show exaclty what you need to see(16/0 penn, basically same as your 12/0), perhaps you could transfer over a couple pics from this thread to show everyone what part you are talking about. I think pic #9 and #20 are the 2 pics that pertain to the clicker on the sideplate and the clicker mechanism on the spool.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1738.0
Quote from: Max Doubt on March 02, 2012, 06:00:27 AM
Bob, I'm a complete idiot when it comes to computers and everything associated with them, but Sal has another tutorial that may show exaclty what you need to see(16/0 penn, basically same as your 12/0), perhaps you could transfer over a couple pics from this thread to show everyone what part you are talking about. I think pic #9 and #20 are the 2 pics that pertain to the clicker on the sideplate and the clicker mechanism on the spool.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1738.0
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner.
Alto Mare's Photo. This is it:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture034.jpg)
(Edit to insert correct photos)
I'm no photographer, but here are some photos of the spool:
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l78/bobbooth/Fishing/7c5c108e.jpg)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l78/bobbooth/Fishing/00f15b22.jpg)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l78/bobbooth/Fishing/93ef45e5.jpg)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l78/bobbooth/Fishing/50a796eb.jpg)
So Bob, your picture shows the pinion gear side of your spool, and it looks fine. The clicker gear is on the other end of your spool(not in your picture). Is it the clicker gear you have a question about ???
Quote from: Max Doubt on March 02, 2012, 05:19:31 PM
So Bob, your picture shows the pinion gear side of your spool, and it looks fine. The clicker gear is on the other end of your spool(not in your picture). Is it the clicker gear you have a question about ???
My bad. Fixed it. That was a rush job early this morning.
Holy moley Bob, your clicker gear is completely gone........ouch
Quote from: Max Doubt on March 02, 2012, 09:30:17 PM
Holy moley Bob, your clicker gear is completely gone........ouch
Dang it. I was hoping that clicker gear was keyed to fit the shaft. Why isn't the shaft completely round? Arghh!!! ??? >:( ??? :( ???
Is the click drag permanently affixed to the 116L spools? Can a part be adapted from another reel in the series? 14/0, or 16/0? If I have to hunt down another spool, this project probably won't be cost effective. Any suggestions?
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l78/bobbooth/Fishing/116LCD.jpg)
Why do you need it? Fish without the clicker and the project becomes affordable and immediately do-able.
I have never seen this part separate from the spool. If anyone knows, Sal will.
If you need the clicker, it may be easier to find a young person to go fishing with you and have him/her watch the reel and their sole job is to yell when line start peeling off.
Quote from: Marlinmate on March 03, 2012, 12:22:59 AM
Why do you need it? Fish without the clicker and the project becomes affordable and immediately do-able.
One reason these reels are popular with land-based shark fishermen is that the loud clickers are easily heard over the surf and at night. Its basically like cat fishing. It wouldn't take long for some sharks to spool you if they picked up the bait while you were occupied with something else.
It doesn't look like the part would be hard to fabricate. I may give that a shot, or set it on the shelf until another parts reel pops up. Regardless, I'm learning a lot and this won't be the last Senator I mess with.
Quote from: Bryan Young on March 03, 2012, 12:57:10 AM
I have never seen this part separate from the spool. If anyone knows, Sal will.
If you need the clicker, it may be easier to find a young person to go fishing with you and have him/her watch the reel and their sole job is to yell when line start peeling off.
I almost always have young persons with me when I go fishing. My experience has been that they pretty much yell all of the time. ;D
Sounds like it's about time you teach them to sing a "Fish On" song. ;)
Bob: Penn Parts (Scott's) still has 116L parts. Unfortunately a new spool is $157.00. Write to Scott's and ask if they have a damaged spool they would be willing sell. Also write to Penn in TransylvaniaYou might get lucky. That's only the first step. I'm sure someone on this site knows how to get the ratchet gear off and on. Dominick
Quote from: Blue Collar Bob on March 02, 2012, 10:06:07 PM
Quote from: Max Doubt on March 02, 2012, 09:30:17 PM
Holy moley Bob, your clicker gear is completely gone........ouch
Dang it. I was hoping that clicker gear was keyed to fit the shaft. Why isn't the shaft completely round? Arghh!!! ??? >:( ??? :( ???
The "clicker gear" is keyed to the shaft. That's why the shaft isn't round. It is held onto the shaft by a tiny flange that was originally part of the shaft. Especially when people leave the ratchet on during the strike and while cranking the fish in, the constant vibration can cause the "gear" to gradually come loose. Keep it up and it'll fall off as the flange gets torn off. If that is what happened, then the original side plate of the reel would have probably not had the ratchet tongue left on it too (or very badly worn, to the point of being unusable).
Since that "gear" is very closely fitted with the shaft, reconnecting it would be a challenge. It might be possible to TIG weld it back on, but I don't know if that would either anneal the shaft or cause it to distort (so that the spool would not spin truly concentric).
If you want to take a gamble and TIG weld it on, find a replacement from another reel, or from Penn directly. It really should not be that difficult to find because a lot of the old, 3-piece, spools broke after being loaded with mono. If you can't find one, then just go online and buy a small gear with as few teeth as you can find, and that has the same OD and ID that you need. Don't worry about the shaft not being round, just find one that the gear will snugly fit over. There will be space where the shaft is not round, but since it's going to be welded, that won't be a problem. The gears are fairly inexpensive. The noise produced won't be as coarse, and definitely higher in tone since the number of teeth will likely exceed the original.
If you don't want to weld the gear, you might try gluing it on. My guess is that it will fail over time since the vibration will cause the glue to fatigue and fracture.
The last alternative is to not re-attach that "gear". If you need an alarm for when the fish bite, search online for fishing alarms (I saw some). There are some that work on the movement of the rod (the most basic is to just hang a bell on the rod), and there are others that are based on the line going out of the reel.
Bob, I believe that your best bet is to find a used beat up 116 or 116a. Check eBay every now and then, if you do find one, use the spool and you could sell me the inner parts, so you could get some money back. If you do have the ratchet, I'm sure that someone would be able to tack it on for you for a case of beer or so, but, you would still be taking a chance.
I do have parts, unfortunately my parts are new and obsolete. I have a brand new cast chromed spool for the 116A and a stand that would convert your reel into a narrow( 116 to 116A ), but these parts are not cheap. I wouldn't be able to sell the spool and stand for less than $170 + shipping, and that's for the members here. You could check the internet, but I'm sure that you won't find these parts anywhere. I still believe a used beat up reel is your best bet. Good luck to you. Sal
Thanks to everyone for the help and advice. This truly is a great group of people here. I think I'm going to exercise some patience and wait for another beater to come around. I appreciate all of the patience with helping a new guy. I'll be sure to return in kind, if I get the chance.
Thanks, Bob
Bob,
If that's the piece you're missing then you're gonna need a new spool :'(
I am yet to hear a success story for this dilemma.
Good luck and I hope that's not the part you need, but that is one heck of a deal for those parts, Ted!
Dom
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 03, 2012, 05:26:45 AM
Bob, I believe that your best bet is to find a used beat up 116 or 116a. Check eBay every now and then, if you do find one, use the spool and you could sell me the inner parts, so you could get some money back. If you do have the ratchet, I'm sure that someone would be able to tack it on for you for a case of beer or so, but, you would still be taking a chance.
I do have parts, unfortunately my parts are new and obsolete. I have a brand new cast chromed spool for the 116A and a stand that would convert your reel into a narrow( 116 to 116A ), but these parts are not cheap. I wouldn't be able to sell the spool and stand for less than $170 + shipping, and that's for the members here. You could check the internet, but I'm sure that you won't find these parts anywhere. I still believe a used beat up reel is your best bet. Good luck to you. Sal
This definitely isn't the project for new and obsolete parts. As far as inner parts from a beater real, if it comes to that and there's anything useful to you they're yours for sharing your experience here.
I know this has grown beyond a WTB ad, but as far as durability, is the chromed spool or aluminum spool version considered the better choice? I sorta like the idea of fishing something old with character, but prefer it doesn't blow apart on the fish of a lifetime.
Bob, don't give up with your project, put that reel on the shelf and be patient, I'm sure that the parts will come around sooner or later. The part that you need is hard to get, we usually get right on it and help out, but it's not easy this time to help you out. Your project came 2 months too late, that's when I sold an ugly but functional 116A spool for $40. I will keep my eyes open and let you know if I see something worth buying. As for the aluminum vs chromed spool, for some applications the aluminum spool is a better choice but I personally like the chromed brass one-piece spool. I always enjoy it when someone brings back an old penn reel to life. Don't give up. Sal
Old Penns never die,they only look that way. ;)
Quote from: Irish Jigger on March 03, 2012, 12:00:26 PM
Old Penns never die,they only look that way. ;)
You're right Tom, I stand corrected! ;)
Definitely not giving up. Just slowing down and changing the game plan. Even beat up and broken, I've grown attached to this old reel. Keeping eyes peeled for another parts reel.
Thanks guys, Bob
Quote from: Blue Collar Bob on March 03, 2012, 07:26:39 PM
Definitely not giving up. Just slowing down and changing the game plan. Even beat up and broken, I've grown attached to this old reel. Keeping eyes peeled for another parts reel.
Thanks guys, Bob
So, what have you decided to do? Seems like you can either repair the spool you have (if you can find the gear), or replace the spool.
Quote from: Makule on March 03, 2012, 07:31:27 PM
Quote from: Blue Collar Bob on March 03, 2012, 07:26:39 PM
Definitely not giving up. Just slowing down and changing the game plan. Even beat up and broken, I've grown attached to this old reel. Keeping eyes peeled for another parts reel.
Thanks guys, Bob
So, what have you decided to do? Seems like you can either repair the spool you have (if you can find the gear), or replace the spool.
Since I still need to replace a side plate, inner ring, outer ring and handle, I'm leaning toward purchasing another parts reel. I may send some emails, as you suggested, inquiring about the click gear and see if I can make it work. I do have some welder buddies, but considering what I'm hearing about the difficulty in making a successful repair I hope to find another old reel with a good spool. Now that I've seen it isn't a quick fix, I'll just bide my time on this. I don't have a pressing need for this reel. I just
want it. I will put it into use once its serviceable. I have some a couple of smaller reels(Daiwa 600h and Quantum 30w) to keep me in the game.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/220964200271?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Maybe this will stay low :-\
The clicker gears look to be chrome/brass, you wont be able to weld the spool shaft to it.You could braze the part on if you find one, I don't know what that would do to the chrome though :-\
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 04, 2012, 10:43:58 PM
The clicker gears look to be chrome/brass, you wont be able to weld the spool shaft to it.You could braze the part on if you find one, I don't know what that would do to the chrome though :-\
I didn't expect to hear that. I was guessing that they were stainless. Just figured if they were chrome plated you would see brass where the chrome rubbed off of the teeth. Thanks for the heads up.
Quote from: Blue Collar Bob on March 04, 2012, 11:50:41 PM
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 04, 2012, 10:43:58 PM
The clicker gears look to be chrome/brass, you wont be able to weld the spool shaft to it.You could braze the part on if you find one, I don't know what that would do to the chrome though :-\
I didn't expect to hear that. I was guessing that they were stainless. Just figured if they were chrome plated you would see brass where the chrome rubbed off of the teeth. Thanks for the heads up.
The ratchet sprocket is SS. My file just told me so.
I'm thinking if it was chromed brass it would have still been there, only smaller.
Thats good, all my reels click gears are chromed..I know because on most of them it is falling off :'(
Would it be possible to drill and tap two holes (diametrically opposite) through the ratchet and spool shaft and fit grub screws to retain the ratchet? Not too sure how hard the sprocket is. :-\
A 10/0 went off last night for around $130, I was hoping that Bob would jump on it, I sent him the link. I would have gladly paid him $50+ shipping for the guts and he would have had a decent spool and a lot of other goodies.
Bob, I'm thinking that maybe you're not interested in a narrow 12/0? The 10/0 is still a nice reel, just a little narrower. Sal
Sal, that 9500SS went for $251. More than I expected!
Theres a 12/0 on CL here for $350 with rod, may be worth looking into if he will sell the reel without the rod. http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/spo/2862902157.html
Quote from: Irish Jigger on March 05, 2012, 12:59:08 PM
Sal, that 9500SS went for $251. More than I expected!
I know :o. We need to have a meeting with Justin, we should stop bragging about these reels ...... soon we won't be able to find any for ourselves:-\
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 05, 2012, 06:02:17 PM
Quote from: Irish Jigger on March 05, 2012, 12:59:08 PM
Sal, that 9500SS went for $251. More than I expected!
I know :o. We need to have a meeting with Justin, we should stop bragging about these reels ...... soon we won't be able to find any for ourselves:-\
I'm having the same probem on a much cheeper scale trying to get a nice Surfmaster 150 and 100 to put next to my v-good 200. I'm also trying to find good/ok Surfmaster 150 and 100 reels to fish with but they go for more than I've been willing to bid. I did pick up a 150 w/spare spool and box for less than $30.
Surfmaster 100 and 150's are going for around $30 here although shipping to the US is probably another $25.
I will keep a lookout for a good one if you wish.
The local Penn rep tells me that they are becoming much sought after in the UK by collectors. ;)
Thanks for the offer, I might take you up on it.
I'm planning on using a 100 for live bait albacore and river salmon (and try swimbait for dorado in Baja), the few 150s for albacore and ocean salmon trolling. I don't see a big issue with 3:1 gearing, I can get 12lb of drag out of them and both take enough 40lb spectra.
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 05, 2012, 12:10:00 PM
A 10/0 went off last night for around $130, I was hoping that Bob would jump on it, I sent him the link. I would have gladly paid him $50+ shipping for the guts and he would have had a decent spool and a lot of other goodies.
Bob, I'm thinking that maybe you're not interested in a narrow 12/0? The 10/0 is still a nice reel, just a little narrower. Sal
Sorry Alto Mare. I should have commented on your link to the 10/0. I already had that reel in my watch list and made a lowball offer of $125. Thing is, had I won the reel, I'd still want a 12/0. I'm hoping to fish the FL Panhandle in the future. The experienced guys fish FL with big reels spooled with heavy mono to reduce cut offs on shell and coral. Actually, more and more people seem to be loading 14/0 and 16/0 reels with 130lb - 200lb mono.
I bought the parts reel for $75.00 shipped. So far, I've only invested in a HT100 drag set, new side plate screws, dog, got spring and retaining nuts for the clamp. I don't have a lot in it. If I can repair it on the cheap, that's great. If I don't find another parts reel, I can always buy a nice one and have spare parts on hand, if needed.
You know that you don't really need the ratchet to make the reel work, right?
Quote from: Panama on March 06, 2012, 02:44:32 AMSorry if I appear to be lazy...but there is alot of info to read in order to catch up. Do you need the clicker ring that attaches to the sideplate, the spool, or both? I can try to help if you let me know exactly what you trying to replace.
Wow! I've got some catching up to do myself. The side plate has the click tongue and spring. The gear, or ratchet, that should be attached to the spool is missing.
As for the talk about bells and etc., this vid was posted on sharksonthesand.com. Pretty cool, I just want to keep things as simple as possible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9o_WPbet9M&feature=player_embedded
Makule, night fishing for shark the clicker really helps. ;)
Bob: I've been following this thread but have not had anything to add. I would bet (though I don't know) that the ratchet is the same size on several size reels. Assuming that the ratchet can be removed and pressed onto your spool it might behoove you to first find out the size of the ratchet and which of the ratchets are the same size and shoot for a parts reel on ebay or Craig's list or someone of the members here has a ratty spool that they would not mind giving up. Good luck! Dominick
Quote from: Pescachaser on March 06, 2012, 12:19:16 AM
Bob: I've been following this thread but have not had anything to add. I would bet (though I don't know) that the ratchet is the same size on several size reels. Assuming that the ratchet can be removed and pressed onto your spool it might behoove you to first find out the size of the ratchet and which of the ratchets are the same size and shoot for a parts reel on ebay or Craig's list or someone of the members here has a ratty spool that they would not mind giving up. Good luck! Dominick
It's quite possible that it's the same for the 12/0. I'll check.
Sorry if I appear to be lazy...but there is alot of info to read in order to catch up. Do you need the clicker ring that attaches to the sideplate, the spool, or both? I can try to help if you let me know exactly what you trying to replace.
Anthony: The gear that activates the clicker and is attached to the spool. Could you check your Penn box to see if you have one for Bob. Dominick
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 06, 2012, 12:17:58 AM
Makule, night fishing for shark the clicker really helps. ;)
We just hang a bell from the rod so if anything bites, the bell will ring, and we'll know something's on. I've also made an electronic alarm (car alarm) that I hang on the rod (sometimes the bell isn't loud enough). Shown below is an image of my 14/0 with the bell (made of round SS tubing) hanging on it. It's standard with much of our casting rigs here.
(https://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1psX4U65Xpn2YZho_Fm_zq4H8VmCW5vO9yFmhzfdglM222bVkmw_2hB-iPBOjXXSqNJqpmrnOd4X01O1bQGOrj1A/Trash-bag-fishing.jpg?psid=1)
Quote from: Panama on March 06, 2012, 02:44:32 AM
Sorry if I appear to be lazy...but there is alot of info to read in order to catch up. Do you need the clicker ring that attaches to the sideplate, the spool, or both? I can try to help if you let me know exactly what you trying to replace.
You need both, plus the "tongue" that the spring holds (the "ring", as you describe it). The circular spring holds the tongue in the sprocket grooves when engaged. As the spool turns, the tongue rides over the tooth and then falls into the next groove. This action is what makes the noise.
I like your bell, some people here use them on the small rods but they also use small bells.Looks like yours would be alot louder than any I've seen, I may have to make one of those for myself :)
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 06, 2012, 03:38:28 AM
I like your bell, some people here use them on the small rods but they also use small bells.Looks like yours would be alot louder than any I've seen, I may have to make one of those for myself :)
I kid you not, some guys here go nuts and make (and use) bells that are about 8" across at the bottom. My electronic car alarms "bells" are far louder than any of those, however (and much lighter).
My next trip to hawaii, I have to try this craziness.
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 06, 2012, 04:14:17 AM
My next trip to hawaii, I have to try this craziness.
I have plenty of craziness for the both of us when you come. Stay long enough so you can do at least one overnight "holo holo" trip.
Quote from: Makule on March 06, 2012, 03:26:44 AM
Quote from: Panama on March 06, 2012, 02:44:32 AM
Sorry if I appear to be lazy...but there is alot of info to read in order to catch up. Do you need the clicker ring that attaches to the sideplate, the spool, or both? I can try to help if you let me know exactly what you trying to replace.
You need both, plus the "tongue" that the spring holds (the "ring", as you describe it). The circular spring holds the tongue in the sprocket grooves when engaged. As the spool turns, the tongue rides over the tooth and then falls into the next groove. This action is what makes the noise.
I can see if I can get my hands on a click tounge (36-115) but the ratchet, if am not mistaking, is attached to the shaft which is attached to the spool. If I am right about that, I can see about a spool. Fill in if I am missing any info guys...
Anthony, you got that right. The piece that is secured to the spool.
Makule, you got one of those ratatata thingys? I'm not sure how it works, but I think line is wrapped around it and when line goes out, it goes ratatatat.
Yup, we even wrap tubes on our rods so that the bell wire than bet inserted and hand from the rod and not the guides. You can make different ones for different wounds...square, round,...
Here are some CL ads I found that you might want to check out.
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/2874186596.html (http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/2874186596.html)
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/boa/2835475614.html (http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/boa/2835475614.html)
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/2826930824.html (http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/2826930824.html)
http://lexington.craigslist.org/spo/2856598190.html (http://lexington.craigslist.org/spo/2856598190.html)
http://tallahassee.craigslist.org/spo/2854867612.html (http://tallahassee.craigslist.org/spo/2854867612.html)
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/spo/2878336644.html (http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/spo/2878336644.html)
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/spo/2878310787.html (http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/spo/2878310787.html)
http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/spo/2886640753.html (http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/spo/2886640753.html)
Quote from: Bryan Young on March 06, 2012, 04:46:57 AM
Makule, you got one of those ratatata thingys? I'm not sure how it works, but I think line is wrapped around it and when line goes out, it goes ratatatat.
You mean the "gata gata"? Nope, have never even seen one and really don't care to. Try to keep my fishing as quiet as possible.
Quote from: Panama on March 06, 2012, 02:44:32 AM
Sorry if I appear to be lazy...but there is alot of info to read in order to catch up. Do you need the clicker ring that attaches to the sideplate, the spool, or both? I can try to help if you let me know exactly what you trying to replace.
Wow! I've got some catching up to do myself. The side plate has the click tongue and spring. The gear, or ratchet, that should be attached to the spool is missing.
As for the talk about bells and etc., this vid was posted on sharksonthesand.com (http://www.sharksonthesand.com). Pretty cool, I just want to keep things as simple as possible:
Basic How To Shark Alarm Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9o_WPbet9M&feature=player_embedded)
Quote from: Makule on March 06, 2012, 04:54:32 AM
Here are some CL ads I found that you might want to check out.
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/2874186596.html (http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/2874186596.html)
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/boa/2835475614.html (http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/boa/2835475614.html)
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/2826930824.html (http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/2826930824.html)
http://lexington.craigslist.org/spo/2856598190.html (http://lexington.craigslist.org/spo/2856598190.html)
http://tallahassee.craigslist.org/spo/2854867612.html (http://tallahassee.craigslist.org/spo/2854867612.html)
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/spo/2878336644.html (http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/spo/2878336644.html)
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/spo/2878310787.html (http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/spo/2878310787.html)
http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/spo/2886640753.html (http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/spo/2886640753.html)
Thanks. Good stuff here. Is there a way to search all of craigslist, or do you have to search region by region? Anyone here think I should go for the second Miami listing for the 12/0 where the clicker doesn't work? ;D ;D ;D
Use this search engine. Very useful.
http://www.searchtempest.com/ (http://www.searchtempest.com/)
QuoteAnyone here think I should go for the second Miami listing for the 12/0 where the clicker doesn't work?
At least you won't need to find all the other parts to make a "complete" reel. $100 for such a reel, even if the ratchet doesn't work, is cheap.
I'm now vaguely remembering that many years ago, we did re-attach sprockets that came off from the Pfleuger Templar reels by simply soldering them back. Used low temp. silver solder if I recall correctly. Will look at some of my reels to see if we actually did that. Forty years ago is a long time to be recalling that kind of detail.
I have secured them by punch locking.
Quote from: Makule on March 06, 2012, 09:00:33 AM
QuoteAnyone here think I should go for the second Miami listing for the 12/0 where the clicker doesn't work?
At least you won't need to find all the other parts to make a "complete" reel. $100 for such a reel, even if the ratchet doesn't work, is cheap.
I'm now vaguely remembering that many years ago, we did re-attach sprockets that came off from the Pfleuger Templar reels by simply soldering them back. Used low temp. silver solder if I recall correctly. Will look at some of my reels to see if we actually did that. Forty years ago is a long time to be recalling that kind of detail.
I agree. That's a great price. I was just kidding, because the clicker is the main hang up on the reel I'm working on. If I had bought the reel in the Miami ad, I would be much better off. The reel I have now has issues other than the clicker.
One good thing about solder is if it didn't hold up I could re-solder or clean it up and try something different. I just need to find the part.
Quote from: Irish Jigger on March 06, 2012, 09:43:43 AM
I have secured them by punch locking.
Punch locking? Is that striking a punch at the joint?
Quote from: Makule on March 06, 2012, 08:46:12 AM
Use this search engine. Very useful.
http://www.searchtempest.com/ (http://www.searchtempest.com/)
Cool. Thanks.
Quote from: Blue Collar Bob on March 06, 2012, 11:50:06 AM
Quote from: Irish Jigger on March 06, 2012, 09:43:43 AM
I have secured them by punch locking.
Punch locking? Is that striking a punch at the joint?
Re second photograph on page 2 of this thread.
Try centre punching in 4 places around the clicker/spindle joint.(careful supporting of spool reqd.)
I still think it may be possible to drill and tap two holes at spindle flats and secure with grub screws.
Different terms from different palces
punch lock= staking
grub screw=?
Hi Keta.Yes different places ;D
Staking =punch locking.
Grub screw=screwed rod with female hex for driving (ref attachment.)
http://www.fastfixdirect.co.uk/code/navigation.asp?fType=fasteners&MainCategoryID=19&ProductCategoryID=59241
Grub screw=allen set screw in fronteer giberish :o
Got my 14/0 back a couple of days ago. Looked very nice and clean, not like how I loan it out to a friend. Though he, or someone, did a good job. Ratchet didn't work so I opened it up and found no sprocket. Is this contagious or what?
Quote from: Makule on March 14, 2012, 04:56:42 AM
Got my 14/0 back a couple of days ago. Looked very nice and clean, not like how I loan it out to a friend. Though he, or someone, did a good job. Ratchet didn't work so I opened it up and found no sprocket. Is this contagious or what?
Oh, no! I'm sorry to hear that. Are you going to try to replace the sprocket.
Quote from: Blue Collar Bob on March 15, 2012, 03:09:02 PM
Quote from: Makule on March 14, 2012, 04:56:42 AM
Got my 14/0 back a couple of days ago. Looked very nice and clean, not like how I loan it out to a friend. Though he, or someone, did a good job. Ratchet didn't work so I opened it up and found no sprocket. Is this contagious or what?
Oh, no! I'm sorry to hear that. Are you going to try to replace the sprocket.
Will try to replace it if I can find a replacement. Will talk to my machinist friend about how to attach it. I'm thinking that if a replacement sprocket can't be found, I'll take another spool with it on and see if there is some off-the-shelf item that's similar. If too costly, maybe just get a very coarse gear of the proper OD/ID and use that. Might make it sound better (but probably not louder).
A further complication just turned up. I found an old broken spool from a 14/0 and removed the sprocket. It had a keyed hole that mounts to the spool shaft. The spool that I need to repair doesn't have the keyed shaft. It is just round so the sprocket will not work on it.
Bob, is your shaft keyed or straight?
Quote from: Makule on March 18, 2012, 03:29:02 AM
A further complication just turned up. I found an old broken spool from a 14/0 and removed the sprocket. It had a keyed hole that mounts to the spool shaft. The spool that I need to repair doesn't have the keyed shaft. It is just round so the sprocket will not work on it.
Bob, is your shaft keyed or straight?
If I'm understanding correctly, we both need the same sprocket. Here's the pic of mine:
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l78/bobbooth/Fishing/50a796eb.jpg)
Can you drill it out to work for you, or is the keyed diameter too large?
I thought we were talking clicker side not pinion side? The clicker "gear" can be water cut or carefuly removed from a unuseable spool. I have one I removed in the shop but it is for a project.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/SpoolShaft.jpg)
Quote from: Keta on March 18, 2012, 05:59:04 PM
I thought we were talking clicker side not pinion side? The clicker "gear" can be water cut or carefuly removed from a unuseable spool. I have one I removed in the shop but it is for a project.
Not sure if your message was for me, or Makule. Here's a pic of the pinion(right) side of my spool:
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l78/bobbooth/Fishing/044b2ec2.jpg)
PS- You wouldn't happen to know the outside diameter of the gear, would you?
Quote from: Blue Collar Bob on March 18, 2012, 07:26:14 PM
You wouldn't happen to know the outside diameter of the gear, would you?
No, but it will be about .005 over the shaft OD.
Quote from: Keta on March 18, 2012, 07:34:21 PM
Quote from: Blue Collar Bob on March 18, 2012, 07:26:14 PM
You wouldn't happen to know the outside diameter of the gear, would you?
No, but it will be about .005 over the shaft OD.
Gotcha on that. Thanks. Curious about the measurement outside tooth to outside tooth. If I don't soon have luck finding a replacement, I'll try looking for alternatives. From photos it looks like 14 teeth.
Quote from: Blue Collar Bob on March 18, 2012, 05:23:43 PM
Quote from: Makule on March 18, 2012, 03:29:02 AM
A further complication just turned up. I found an old broken spool from a 14/0 and removed the sprocket. It had a keyed hole that mounts to the spool shaft. The spool that I need to repair doesn't have the keyed shaft. It is just round so the sprocket will not work on it.
Bob, is your shaft keyed or straight?
If I'm understanding correctly, we both need the same sprocket. Here's the pic of mine:
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l78/bobbooth/Fishing/50a796eb.jpg)
Can you drill it out to work for you, or is the keyed diameter too large?
Yes, the ID of the sprocket is already too large.
The OD of the shaft is 0.22", and the sprocket is "riveted" on. The rivet consists, from what I could see, of a sleeve that fits over the shaft and over which the sprocket sits. This sleeve is then flared over the sprocket. Fairly simple, and my guess is that the sleeve may not have been made of SS. Since I don't have the sprocket, I can't say what the ID is, but it probably doesn't matter much as long as the sleeve ID is slightly larger than the shaft, and the sleeve OD is slightly smaller than the ID of the sprocket.
The OD of the sprocket is 1.06 and the number of teeth is 14. Depth per tooth is about 1/8". The number of teeth is not critical (I'd actually prefer it to have more) and the depth of tooth can be more than 1/8 (and doesn't need to be "v" shaped either, as the Pfleuger Templars and Atlapacs had "U" shape teeth).
If you notice in the image of the old type spool shown below, there are actually two pieces that make up the sprocket. I don't know why this is, but could possibly be for ease of manufacturing (didn't have water jet those days). Anyway, you can see that the sprockets are keyed onto the shaft, and they were then riveted in place.
(https://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pDyTc8goKNm-p2YDy8CGzp4u0PJfxyx6UbP0gK8VU2AjeEAwzu2N564cNaGJis5Iqd5voZdqmyH2wb8L9pWBELQ/sprocket-and-shaft.jpg?psid=1)
good job Makule.
Would an internal tooth locking washer work here? They not stainless steel.
http://images.search.conduit.com/ImagePreview/?q=Locking%20washers&ctid=CT2769726&searchsource=10&start=35&pos=20
That might work to hold it in place, I have a few spools that have floppy clicker gears that work fine. I was thinking about a slight interferance fit or a tight slip fit and tacking it in place with a TIG welder.
Quote from: Irish Jigger on March 19, 2012, 10:03:05 AM
Would an internal tooth locking washer work here? They not stainless steel.
http://images.search.conduit.com/ImagePreview/?q=Locking%20washers&ctid=CT2769726&searchsource=10&start=35&pos=20
It would probably be somewhat too weak to hold it in for a good length of time. Additionally, those are typically made of spring steel and not SS. Finally, it would do nothing to hold the sprocket in position when turned (I.E., the tongue would make it slide on the shaft).
Sorry, I just realised that your spindle was not keyed! Tig weld it. ;)
Quote from: Irish Jigger on March 19, 2012, 10:32:38 PM
Sorry, I just realised that your spindle was not keyed! Tig weld it. ;)
There are options for attaching the sprocket, but the main problem is getting a sprocket that will fit.
In case anyone might be interested, we did some destructive testing today and discovered that the Penn Senator 14/0 (and I assume the other sizes) have the shaft shrunk fit on to the bronze cast spool. This means that the spool hold is actually cut a bit smaller (maybe .001-.002) than the shaft diameter. It is then heated so that it will expand, and then the unheated shaft inserted and the whole thing allow to cool. As it cools, the bronze will contract around the shaft and become permanent. The shaft cannot be taken out by pressing it, but it may be possible to heat the spool only and remove the shaft. Not recommended nor the easiest thing to do.