Who has a winding machine , store bought or home made . What pro and cons do you have to say about the machine ? I am in the process of building one . Looking to share ideas on a new concept to make winding easier and more consistent windings . Pictures will help . Glove hand feed or moving sheive feed . Do you have problems with dig ins from the supply spool with higher drag tension ? How much tension ?
I have a couple manual ones, a clamp on type for spinners and a Penn product. Unfortunately I lost part of it and haven't been able to use it.
I picked up a used Triangle winder several years ago when a friend closed his takle shop.
I am a old school line spooler , prefer to do it by hand ,slow and steady . I can lay wraps side by side , layer upon layer . Yes it does take a lot of time to do , and it does build your arm muscles . Mono line is a piece of cake to spool, lots of round diameter , it`s like reeling up the garden hose on the hose reel .
Braided line is a different animal ,much thinner with no real round diameter . And you can get a lot more yardage on the reel . The animal part of braid is you don`t want to be sloppy spooling it from the start . No piles or waves or criss crossing when spooling , that`s the start of dig ins and waffling the line . After watching many people spool reels i can see why there is a problem dig in and back lash with knots from hell . So i want to take some of the human error out of the equation . The concept.. Something that wants to level wind it`s self .
Lets see were this goes !
What's motor you use .Can you add a speed control like sewing machine ?
Quote from: quang tran on May 18, 2024, 03:21:04 AMWhat's motor you use .Can you add a speed control like sewing machine ?
It is a ford windshield wiper motor . The toggle switch on the side of the box is now a high and low speed . Low speed is slow enough , that I did not feel the need for a rheostat . I will put up a video tomorrow .
I do have a question , does anyone know what this thing is ? When it was hooked up to the two hot legs , it gave me forward and reverse . When I removed it , than I got high and low speed.
The motor is a 3 brush motor .
That looks like a capacitor, Joe —-
On a DC motor, it stores a charge of voltage very quickly —- and then releases it also just as quickly.
They are used in many electronic applications, and have been useful for years.
On a DC motor, it overcomes any variation speed or resistance in the rotation of the armatures —- to keep things steady and constant.
Best, Fred
Quote from: foakes on May 18, 2024, 05:04:49 AMThat looks like a capacitor, Joe —-
On a DC motor, it stores a charge of voltage very quickly —- and then releases it also just as quickly.
They are used in many electronic applications, and have been useful for years.
On a DC motor, it overcomes any variation speed or resistance in the rotation of the armatures —- to keep things steady and constant.
Best, Fred
I kinder understand the capacitor , as in start capacitor . When it was hooked up ,I got forward on one leg and reverse on the other leg . At first I though it might be a blocking diode for the park feature for the wipper . Also noted it was only high speed in both directions . Once removed than it became high on one leg and low on the other leg . I was looking at some picture to try to identify the closest I found was a Varistor ? This is the first for me with this surprize . And I didn't make magic smoke .
I changed the supply spool arbor to coarse thread rod and dressed the end so i can use a drill to strip line off a reel . All i need to do is loosen the end post nuts so the arbor will spin.
When I tighten the nuts to the end posts , than I can adjust the supply spool nuts to set drag. I have been using 10 pounds running 11 pounds startup . This set up will get cleaned up at a latter date , it`s just a starting point rite now .
That little pulley in the front served it`s purpose , now it`s time to go big . A compass set at 5 3/4 to draw a circle and make a pulley with a circumference of 36 inches .
It will serve two purposes , I can put a counter on it to keeptrack of yardage going on reel . It will also serve as a brake wheel for the higher drag pressures for the big boys 20-30 pounds ,like a step up brake .
;D At this point I am looking for critical thinkers . I don`t take offence to anything said , I learn from mistakes . Don`t be afraid to pick it apart ,we are here to learn . Yes it looks like junk yard parts , but until I work out the bugs it`s easier to change designs .
I will put short videos up so as to not make it boring ,but detailed enough to see the little problem that occurs . When they do pop up ,I do stop to fix it . If you don`t It will keep getting bigger .
The power head : 2 speeds wiper motor wired with 3 switches . One is the 2 speeds "toggle switch" the coiled wire is a monetary switch used for setting line at the end points . The other switch is for turn on constant speed .
The next video is the base wrap set on the arbor and just machine winding . Pick the flaw .
Another one later on . https:I
I have a "Bees Knees" spooling drag system from Busted Fishing and I would have to say it's the best I've played with so far. No motorised spooler for the reel though, just me cranking away.
It has two issues, though. At very low drag settings, the fill spool spins on the cones instead of the drag spinning, but the spooling tension required in those instances is relatively low anyway.
When spooling with higher drag, I have occasionally had the braid dig into the fill spool. Manufacturers aren't winding those on under much tension.
Quote from: boon on May 19, 2024, 10:16:47 PMI have a "Bees Knees" spooling drag system from Busted Fishing and I would have to say it's the best I've played with so far. No motorised spooler for the reel though, just me cranking away.
It has two issues, though. At very low drag settings, the fill spool spins on the cones instead of the drag spinning, but the spooling tension required in those instances is relatively low anyway.
When spooling with higher drag, I have occasionally had the braid dig into the fill spool. Manufacturers aren't winding those on under much tension.
I understand the problem , may I suggest you try a zig zag board after the Bees Knees to create the extra drag you are looking for . you can try different combinations when winding around the pegs for drag .
That's a novel solution. I'd be a little worried about abrading the line, hmmm. I'd prefer to create drag without using friction on the line itself.
There are in-line drag solutions for spooling that seem like a good idea.
Quote from: boon on May 20, 2024, 02:55:49 AMThat's a novel solution. I'd be a little worried about abrading the line, hmmm. I'd prefer to create drag without using friction on the line itself.
There are in-line drag solutions for spooling that seem like a good idea.
I would like to hear more about ,in-line drag solutions for spooling that seem like a good idea.
I will ask , what the difference when the line goes through the tip top and the guides as far as abrading the line under drag . Real question , just sharing ideas .
I use my electric downriggers. First I put the line onto one downrigger, then under tension, I transfer it to my other downrigger, then adjust the brake so I can hand crank it off the downrigger under tension and onto my reel
For removing old line from my reel, I use a antique 1930's large line dryer contraption. There's a 113hlw in the pic to show the size of this old beast
Quote from: Maxed Out on May 20, 2024, 03:26:09 AMI use my electric downriggers. First I put the line onto one downrigger, then under tension, I transfer it to my other downrigger, then adjust the brake so I can hand crank it off the downrigger under tension and onto my reel
:) Yes ,for hand winding reel to reel works . I have mounted reels on closet dowels for line transfer . I like your line dryer , it is well used going by the bow in the dowel rods . I have a few myself .
I use a cordless drill to strip out old line and since I have many extra spool shaft I use correct shaft for each spool to wind up line
To be honest , I will not machine wind spinner spools. I much prefer to wind on the reel it self , I want the line lay and know right away if the shimming is correct .
If you load a spinner on a mandrel the line will not be twisted. But, twists are imparted as line leaves the spool on a cast (one 360 degree twist per spool circumference). When the line is retrieved, the twists are removed.
If you wind a spinner using the whole reel (rotor turning), then the line is twisted as it is loaded onto the reel. But, the twists are removed as the line leaves the spool on a cast.
Pick your poison..... or, get a conventional.
Twists are neither imparted nor removed when drag is pulled but twists are imparted when that line is retrieved. Twists are imparted when cranking against a slipping drag. On a spinner with a 4:1 gear ratio there will be four 360 degree twists for every turn of the handle against a slipping drag. So, the total number of twists accumulate/increase when there is a lot of back-and-forth in a fight.
Quote from: oldmanjoe on May 20, 2024, 04:43:24 AMTo be honest , I will not machine wind spinner spools. I much prefer to wind on the reel it self , I want the line lay and know right away if the shimming is correct .
I do shim to get better spooling but unless you use old Mitchell reel that line spooling perfect , most spinner will get as picture when wind on reel itself ,few reels use oscillating gear similar to bait casting reel then line lay out good ( such as Daiwa SS1300,1600,2600 )
Quote from: oc1 on May 20, 2024, 05:46:44 AMIf you load a spinner on a mandrel the line will not be twisted. But, twists are imparted as line leaves the spool on a cast (one 360 degree twist per spool circumference). When the line is retrieved, the twists are removed.
If you wind a spinner using the whole reel (rotor turning), then the line is twisted as it is loaded onto the reel. But, the twists are removed as the line leaves the spool on a cast.
Pick your poison..... or, get a conventional.
Before braid line come out I only use spinner for 8 lbs test and under and you're right spinner
Twists are neither imparted nor removed when drag is pulled but twists are imparted when that line is retrieved. Twists are imparted when cranking against a slipping drag. On a spinner with a 4:1 gear ratio there will be four 360 degree twists for every turn of the handle against a slipping drag. So, the total number of twists accumulate/increase when there is a lot of back-and-forth in a fight.
I only use drill to wind up line on spinner ,Bait casting reel line lay out good .You're right spinner always get line twist .before braid line come out I only use spinner for light line 8 lbs and under but with braid it's less problem ,I load 30 lbs test braid on Dam 220, 2001 and have no problem with line twist .On conventional reel braid help cast further but not much ,using less than 20 lbs test create more problem
I've been known to use a drill, with a special head that I rigged up using a pipe tee and some padding, to spin the handle on a larger baitcaster or conventional to speed up the process. I've also modified a socket bit (again with a wee bit of padding) to spin the gear sleeve of a penn conventional for the same reason.
I modified the spool and spool shaft of a cheap spinner to mate up with and grip onto a filler spool so I can set the constant tension I want to load with. Then I just gotta make sure I keep the rod section im using straight because if I dip the tip the tension temporarily changes.
I am slowly refining my setup. Joe what you're working on here is very interesting, I may try to adopt a bit of your idea. A bicycle rim might be useful for the larger wheel. I hear they already make brakes for those... And they're adjustable.
Since I don't use conventional reels I'm the line winding machine and my line holder is my own homemade design. It holds three sizes of spools, bulk, medium and the smaller ones. I generally have a bulk spool of mono and a spool of dacron on it at the same time so I don't have to switch things around. Since I only fish fresh water I never install more than 120 or 125 yards of top mono.
The copper sleeves and washers give the spools a smooth surface to ride on and spin against. The springs set the tension I feel is appropriate. I pinched the wing nuts so they won't turn under pressure, but one of these days I'll replace them with nylon wing nuts.
Drag really has no relevance in spinning reel line installation other than making sure the line isn't too loose or too tight and stretched. I set mine by feel and experience.
I mount the reel on the reel seat section of an old SB fiberglass rod with a plastic reel seat & rings. The line only goes through one guide thats right next to the ferrule.
I have 4 line metering machines. One very heavy duty Triangle for large Conventionals, a fairly heavy duty Triangle for Conventionals up to 9/0, and two smaller Berkley's for just spinning reels.
But I never spool a spinning reel with a powered line winder —- always by hand, on a rod lower section, and with a little resistance based on experience and feel. Just takes a few minutes to do it right. Plus I change my line pretty often depending on usage. Generally every year or two. Cheapest assurance of success.
Here is an old cast iron line winder that I keep around for fun.
Alan hasn't chimed in —- but he has the ultimate set-up for Conventionals. None better.
Best, Fred
Quote from: quang tran on May 20, 2024, 10:48:42 AMQuote from: oldmanjoe on May 20, 2024, 04:43:24 AMTo be honest , I will not machine wind spinner spools. I much prefer to wind on the reel it self , I want the line lay and know right away if the shimming is correct .
I do shim to get better spooling but unless you use old Mitchell reel that line spooling perfect , most spinner will get as picture when wind on reel itself ,few reels use oscillating gear similar to bait casting reel then line lay out good ( such as Daiwa SS1300,1600,2600 )
Ha the dreaded hour glass effect , even when you machine line fill , the hour glass start to appear after a few line cycles . Different line dia will change that .
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on May 20, 2024, 01:28:44 PMI am slowly refining my setup. Joe what you're working on here is very interesting, I may try to adopt a bit of your idea. A bicycle rim might be useful for the larger wheel. I hear they already make brakes for those... And they're adjustable.
I like the way think , if I found a smaller wheel I may have used it .
Quote from: Midway Tommy on May 20, 2024, 03:30:00 PMSince I don't use conventional reels I'm the line winding machine and my line holder is my own homemade design. It holds three sizes of spools, bulk, medium and the smaller ones. I generally have a bulk spool of mono and a spool of dacron on it at the same time so I don't have to switch things around. Since I only fish fresh water I never install more than 120 or 125 yards of top mono.
The copper sleeves and washers give the spools a smooth surface to ride on and spin against. The springs set the tension I feel is appropriate. I pinched the wing nuts so they won't turn under pressure, but one of these days I'll replace them with nylon wing nuts.
Drag really has no relevance in spinning reel line installation other than making sure the line isn't too loose or too tight and stretched. I set mine by feel and experience.
I mount the reel on the reel seat section of an old SB fiberglass rod with a plastic reel seat & rings. The line only goes through one guide thats right next to the ferrule.
I like the simple approach to hand winding . I have one more in the works ,that I need to finish for spinners . A revolving yoke design .
Quote from: foakes on May 20, 2024, 04:21:11 PMI have 4 line metering machines. One very heavy duty Triangle for large Conventionals, a fairly heavy duty Triangle for Conventionals up to 9/0, and two smaller Berkley's for just spinning reels.
But I never spool a spinning reel with a powered line winder —- always by hand, on a rod lower section, and with a little resistance based on experience and feel. Just takes a few minutes to do it right. Plus I change my line pretty often depending on usage. Generally every year or two. Cheapest assurance of success.
Here is an old cast iron line winder that I keep around for fun.
Alan hasn't chimed in —- but he has the ultimate set-up for Conventionals. None better.
Best, Fred
I like the cast iron line winder , some how Singer treadle machine comes to mind ..
I would like to see Allens set up or any one else`s
Cool.
Joe, when you're on a quest, you don't mess around.
This works for me. Bolt with old drag washers and lock washer gives me tension when putting line on and easily removed to put full spool on to respool.
Quote from: Lunker Larry on May 20, 2024, 07:29:19 PMThis works for me. Bolt with old drag washers and lock washer gives me tension when putting line on and easily removed to put full spool on to respool.
I like this ,Simple design . It looks like you have potential 3 drag systems for tensioning
Quote from: Gfish on May 20, 2024, 06:56:36 PMCool.
Joe, when you're on a quest, you don't mess around.
:D Aren't you the same way ?
Quote from: oldmanjoe on May 20, 2024, 03:22:58 AMI would like to hear more about ,in-line drag solutions for spooling that seem like a good idea.
I will ask , what the difference when the line goes through the tip top and the guides as far as abrading the line under drag . Real question , just sharing ideas .
The in-line solutions I have seen involve threading the line around several drums/bobbins in such a way that the line does not slide, rather the drums/bobbins rotate and have their own small drag systems. This way there is no tension on the fill spool other than enough to pull line from it.
As to the difference between the guides and some dowels... guides (at least good ones!!) are made from extremely hard, smooth material, intended to minimise friction as much as possible. In the example of a zig-zag board, the dowels are intended to add friction. I would guess that if you spooled braid (especially a coarser, 4 strand braid) under heavy drag and ran it around a soft pine dowel you would either saw through the dowel or it would get so hot it broke the braid.
Quote from: boon on May 21, 2024, 02:12:43 AMQuote from: oldmanjoe on May 20, 2024, 03:22:58 AMI would like to hear more about ,in-line drag solutions for spooling that seem like a good idea.
I will ask , what the difference when the line goes through the tip top and the guides as far as abrading the line under drag . Real question , just sharing ideas .
The in-line solutions I have seen involve threading the line around several drums/bobbins in such a way that the line does not slide, rather the drums/bobbins rotate and have their own small drag systems. This way there is no tension on the fill spool other than enough to pull line from it.
As to the difference between the guides and some dowels... guides (at least good ones!!) are made from extremely hard, smooth material, intended to minimise friction as much as possible. In the example of a zig-zag board, the dowels are intended to add friction. I would guess that if you spooled braid (especially a coarser, 4 strand braid) under heavy drag and ran it around a soft pine dowel you would either saw through the dowel or it would get so hot it broke the braid.
Valid point , I can see the wooden dowel grooving with real high drag . Got me thinking , I have some wind chime tubes that fit over the dowel loose enough to act as a bearing . I see another test coming .
Have time for more testing , but a little more about the concept of why the pulley is ahead of the reel by 52 inches .
You may know the importance of fleet angles, but do you know the best ways to correct them? Cris Seidenather, managing director of Lebus International Engineers, explains how...
When spooling wire rope onto a drum, it is necessary for the rope to come onto the drum at a very slight angle, just enough to encourage each wrap to sit tidily next to the previous wrap, and for each layer to ride cleanly onto the layer beneath.
In fact, apart from the design of the drum itself, this angle – the fleet angle – is the most significant factor in the behaviour of a spooling system. More here . https://www.cranebriefing.com/news/the-importance-of-fleet-angles-and-how-to-fix-them/1082343.article
Another site https://liftingsolutions.ingersollrand.com/en-us/winch-selection-support/fleet-angle-calculations
And the easy calculator to use :https://www.wengercorp.com/irigging/fleet.php
The test today were set the base wrap , than let it wind itself . Stopped a couple times to fix a cross over . For the most part you can see it is self leveling to build the first third of the spool .
This is the start with adjustment made when I came to the arbor knot
This one is just let it run and do it`s owen thing . Had to hold the reel steady .
This one is the start of the second third of the spool . I did not hold the reel steady and the line did jumped a few times ,still has 23 pounds of drag coming off the supply spool. You will see toward the end the reel drag is giving up .
One more , stripping the line off the reel in free spool that the line was set at 23 pounds.
Look how clean it comes off .
Since I have been repairing mechanical watches as a hobby for a number of years, I have a nice watchmaker's lathe to use. All I did was put a brass rod in a collet-holding tailstock and put the spool on it by punching through the labeling paper. I then put a rubber band on the rod and up against the spool label. That put just enough pressure on it to avoid overruns, etc.
When I needed to put line back on an empty line spool, I used the headstock to hold the brass rod with a rubber band on both sides of the empty spool for friction. The lathe utilizes a foot pedal to control the speed while I fed the line from my reel to the spool. It's not pretty, but it worked. I'd like to have the butt end of a rod with just the first guide though, as it was cumbersome even using my old 5 1/2' Sabre.
Yes Joe, my winder, is called, index n thumb, cheers Don.