Hello all:
The other day I was fortunate enough to find a fairly clean, all post black Senator 6/0 model 114 reel at the Brimfield Flea markets here in Mass. There was almost no external corrosion and the mech worked, though somewhat stiffly. I thought it was an older model with external access to service the drag washers but had never before seen one in real life. I picked it up for a good price.
When I disassembled it I confirmed the drag was designed for external service. To my surprise the drag was a stack of three thick (maybe 1/4") leather washers separated by brass. The leather was very dried out but not cracked. I looked up the parts schematic for the reel at Mystic parts.com and found an inset suggesting this was the drag washer stack used in the 1940s, providing a drag washer schematic that matched what I found and providing hints for updating to the HT-100 stack. The metal internals were all in good shape but stained with degraded oil and grease. They're now soaking in light oil/cleanser, and at least some have visible parts numbers.
I will share some photos when the parts are cleaned up and ready to reassemble, but I do have a couple questions:
1) Does the thick washer drag stack indicate as much age as the schematic suggests? Are there other design features I could look for to help confirm its vintage? It is clear it was only ever lightly used and spent decades in storage but if the reel is on the order of 70 years old it is in phenomenal shape. It has the same handle #24-114 design with plastic torpedo as does my 1980s vintage 114H reel and a one piece spool with little grime and no part number I can see yet.
While I plan to update to an HT-100 drag stack and put the reel in service, I will hold onto the old leather stack and reinstall it or at least include it if I ever sell the reel. Is there anything I can do to recondition the leather washers and help prolong their life? I was thinking of soaking them in lanolin or another plant-based oil.
Many thanks,
Ken
I think those washers are asbestos not leather, they were used for many years, I don't think it's a good indicator of age.
I'm with Swami; I suspect those are asbestos "brake lining" style biscuits that were typical of the time. Regardless, they need to step aside. Do a full service, upgrade to the CF drags, and enjoy that classic reel. - john
One potential problem when you reassemble: The main gear on some of those very old Senators had grooves to hold the "ears" on the metal drag washers that were too short to hold both of the eared drag washers in a 5-stack drag. A new gear would solve the problem, or you could resemble the reel with only one eared drag washer -- which would reduce effective drag. Or you could just stack up a couple HT-100 washers so they are the same thickness as the original drag washers. Again, this reduces the drag.
Quote from: akfish on May 17, 2024, 06:56:07 PMOne potential problem when you reassemble: The main gear on some of those very old Senators had grooves to hold the "ears" on the metal drag washers that were too short to hold both of the eared drag washers in a 5-stack drag. A new gear would solve the problem, or you could resemble the reel with only one eared drag washer -- which would reduce effective drag. Or you could just stack up a couple HT-100 washers so they are the same thickness as the original drag washers. Again, this reduces the drag.
Or get super bold and drill the ear-grooves down deeper? I've done it on other reels.
....or use a thick metal keyed washer on top of the first drag washer
definitely change out the drag set to greased carbon fiber. make sure to add a #6-114 drag washer under the main gear!
Thanks to everyone for your advice. I got a little carried away with cleaning and polishing the externals but finished the rebuild yesterday, with both a new HT-100 drag stack and a replacement for the fiber washer under the main gear, which cracked during disassembly. Thankfully the main gear slots for the eared washers were cut to the bottom of the recess, so I did not have the issues AKFish cautioned about.
I've attached three photos, one of the original drag components, including the 136 collar cap and felt washer. Then are two photos of the completed reel.