Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Senator Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: Maxed Out on May 27, 2024, 11:27:19 PM

Title: Once upon a time
Post by: Maxed Out on May 27, 2024, 11:27:19 PM
 Once upon a time, the 113h had steel trim rings and lugs. I recently stumbled onto such a reel, and gave it the brushed finish look with 80 grit emory cloth. Don't try this with chromed brass rings, or you'll end up with exposed brass

 If you find one of these in the correct dark blue box, the label will say "stainless steel reinforced sideplates"
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: alantani on May 28, 2024, 05:37:16 AM
think of what the fishing reel world would be like if all external penn parts were stainless steel instead of chromed brass.  penn would own the world's fishing market. 
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: Maxed Out on May 29, 2024, 01:21:19 AM
Ok, I've been asked, how can I tell if the trim rings are steel ?

The backside of the steel rings have no shine, just a dull grey tint. Here's a comparison of the chromed brass vs the steel. The one on the left is chromed brass, the other 2 are steel....and yes, this is a USA made 113h
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: MarkT on May 29, 2024, 02:00:44 AM
Is the steel magnetic?
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: Maxed Out on May 29, 2024, 06:24:57 PM
Quote from: MarkT on May 29, 2024, 02:00:44 AMIs the steel magnetic?

 Nope, it because this stainless steel is austenitic
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: nelz on May 30, 2024, 02:58:40 AM
Quote from: Maxed Out on May 29, 2024, 06:24:57 PM
Quote from: MarkT on May 29, 2024, 02:00:44 AMIs the steel magnetic?
Nope, it because this stainless steel is austenitic

Had to google "austenitic"  :o  Gettin' pretty techy there Mr. Ted!  ;D
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: alantani on May 30, 2024, 03:04:58 AM
i thought that 300 series stainless steel was non-magnetic, but that 400 series stainless was magnetic.  here is a phil wilson knife with a magnet stuck to it.
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: Crab Pot on May 30, 2024, 03:17:20 AM
Hum, I've never seen a magnet stick to stainless.

Some kind of stainless alloy possibly?

I'm not a metallurgist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.  8)
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: alantani on May 30, 2024, 03:20:14 AM
yeah, i think it's because 400 series stainless has more iron in it.  that makes it harder and more suitable for things like knives.  bearings are 440 stainless, harder than 300 series to carry the load, but they rust easily because of the higher iron content. 
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: Crow on May 30, 2024, 10:17:52 PM
Probably wrong, but a magnet sticks to the "nickel content" in "magnetic stainless", rather than the "steel content"
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: quang tran on May 31, 2024, 03:05:17 AM
440 have strong magnetic ,I once complain about a bag of S.S treble hooks that have magnetic and get a big time educated
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: Gobi King on May 31, 2024, 03:27:32 AM
Few years back I took a little magnet to most of the stainless in my household, nearly ALL of them attracted a magnet.
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 05, 2024, 12:50:32 PM
50 years ago Kencor had conventionals that were pretty much all SS in and out, now long extinct,  parts unobtainum.  Still have a few 4/0s that dad bought back in the day as I suspect they were at a little lower price point the Penns.  Nice reels, but like Newell need the pinion well greased to the spool so they don't freeze up over time.  Penns seem to be a little more rugged.
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: Gfish on June 05, 2024, 06:15:36 PM
Quote from: alantani on May 28, 2024, 05:37:16 AMthink of what the fishing reel world would be like if all external penn parts were stainless steel instead of chromed brass.  penn would own the world's fishing market. 

Wonder about the cost/benefit of using ss. Would they be able to stay in business vs the competition? Wonder also if machining stainless steel is more expensive than chromed brass.

I have a container of mostly non-magnetic nuts & bolts, some are only slightly magnetic. For use on mostly my yak parts.
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: alantani on June 05, 2024, 08:37:31 PM
yeah, i hear ya!  sort of like, it's so easy to go broke in the restaurant business serving the best food in town!
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on June 05, 2024, 10:09:44 PM
Quote from: alantani on June 05, 2024, 08:37:31 PMyeah, i hear ya!  sort of like, it's so easy to go broke in the restaurant business serving the best food in town!
Interestingly the best restaurants don't tend to have 600 item menus. Often it's more like maybe 20 really good things.

The counter argument is people don't collect food.
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: Maxed Out on June 05, 2024, 10:58:56 PM
...back on subject. If Penn had all stainless parts on their reels, the reels would likely cost more, but more importantly they might also last much longer, so they'd eventually be selling less reels.

 Light bulbs are made to eventually fail, but there is technology to make a light bulb that lasts 120 years. Much more profit in selling a sub par light bulb
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: Gfish on June 06, 2024, 03:05:35 AM
Interesting. What, in anyone's opinion is the most common failure point in a Penn conventional. All I've ever experienced are ball bearings stuck in cups and stripped or broken screws in posts—-these were reels that came to me like that.
Then there was a Sailfisher with spool to ring rub that I could not figure-out; like it would work without the rub, then just start to rub for unknown reasons. At least 20 dis/reassemblies, no fix.
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: Bill B on June 09, 2024, 04:31:46 AM
I would have to say the weakest link is the gear sleeve, which can be corrected with a SS gear sleeve.  Bill
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: Maxed Out on June 09, 2024, 04:49:52 AM
Quote from: Bill B on June 09, 2024, 04:31:46 AMI would have to say the weakest link is the gear sleeve, which can be corrected with a SS gear sleeve.  Bill

 A steel gear sleeve is a worthy upgrade, but if the gear sleeve is steel, the dog should also be upgraded to steel. CortezConversions sell both items
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: UKChris1 on June 09, 2024, 10:09:29 AM
Whether stainless steel is magnetic or not and just how stainless stainless steel is is a rabbit hole leading to a warren of great complexity.

Long, long discussions on knife websites on this. Province of metalurgists...

In essence, yes and no, sometimes maybe, and it all depends...

 ::)

Chris
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: ourford on June 09, 2024, 11:25:48 AM
Monel. I want monel. Damn the cost! Better yet K500 monel. LOL
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: jurelometer on June 10, 2024, 05:10:39 PM
Besides material cost, back when these reels were designed, the cost of working stainless steel relative to brass was substantially higher.  Factory  equipment was less capable and more expensive, plus  manufacturing was much more labor intensive by today's standards.  Plus the cost of swapping out some of the equipment and all of the tooling to go from brass to stainless. Reels were expensive to make back then.  Making mass market reels more expensive probably did not make much business sense at the time.

Whenever I see an old reel price, I like to plug it into an inflation calculator.  Recently Ted noted that the 1940 list price for a Surfmaster was $USD 10.  That's north of $200 today when adjusted for inflation. 

Even getting into the Seventies where the manufacturing cost curve started changing rapidly, if Penn offered a stainless option on the Jigmaster for (let's  say) 25 or 30 percent more, do you really think it would have sold well?

-J
Title: Re: Once upon a time
Post by: Gfish on June 11, 2024, 07:15:25 PM
Overall, no. But definitely I'd buy one or two.