Seeing as how the SOA has vertical rod holders in the stern and keeping the lines more parallel to the water keeps the lures from skipping I threw together a couple flat line clips to test out on the July 3 day.
Overall the clips worked well for the cedar plug i was trolling with. I made a long and short version since I had 2 outrigger clips. The shorter version definitely keep the line closer to parallel to the water.
I'm not sure these clips would work for trolling madmacs or marauders but will work just fine for cedar plugs or feathers
Let me know what you think
I clip it to the rod clamp.
Quote from: MarkT on July 18, 2024, 06:42:44 AMI clip it to the rod clamp.
Yeah I was trying to think of a way to get it attached under the reel but I kinda threw this together quickly before we left...
Cool solution, I like it.
So no interest in Mark's the trolling strap solution?
Make a loop with a trolling strap, feed loop end into one of the three in-between rod holders, pull the loop out the bottom and back over the rail, and run the latch ends through the loop.
Does the rod butt rub against the stern...
Quote from: Alan Matsuno on July 18, 2024, 09:31:58 PMDoes the rod butt rub against the stern...
With the strap approach? Not at typical trolling speeds with a long enough trolling strap, but can picture it rubbing as boat slows--the guys doing "trolling prison"
should get the trolling rods in before that happens.
I've used a heavy rubber band across the line and wrapped around the handle (JP showed me on a 10-day years ago). When a fish strikes the rubber band breaks. If you need to reel in to clear the lines, just pull the rubber band off of the handle.
I have a pair of "upriggers" that would "cure" this "problem". I will get a photo and post later today.
PJ, I would ditch the light carabiners for either harness snaps or match the clips on a trolling strap. Those things are not very strong in reality. Trolling straps work ok on the SOA, loop them through the hole on the rail, and the whole rig hangs off the back. I forget whether the outside ones or the inside ones don't work because you can't loop the strap, in that case, your set up will work better. BTW, Halco Lazer Pro 190 crazy deep lures can be found on line at Bass Pro. In options on the lure, select 20+ for the depth. You want the ones with the larger lip
Shhh, quiet on the Halcos... Madmacs are the way to go! >:D
Quote from: CI_Seawolf on July 21, 2024, 07:30:24 PMPJ, I would ditch the light carabiners for either harness snaps or match the clips on a trolling strap. Those things are not very strong in reality. Trolling straps work ok on the SOA, loop them through the hole on the rail, and the whole rig hangs off the back. I forget whether the outside ones or the inside ones don't work because you can't loop the strap, in that case, your set up will work better. BTW, Halco Lazer Pro 190 crazy deep lures can be found on line at Bass Pro. In options on the lure, select 20+ for the depth. You want the ones with the larger lip
The only thing the carabiners do is hold the flat line clip, they don't need to be strong. The rod holder holds all the weight of the set-up
PJ, I think there is a reason the release clips come with a swaged wire attachment.
I gotta ask the question, why is that stern rodholder so janky? Reel sitting on the transom, can't even turn the handle?
Mike Keating liked the look of the closed transom so he went with that.
I trust that layout for trolling way more than a leash tied to the rail. :d. Bill
I have a question? How do people troll on the boat seeing it has a closed stern? Did the crew use bent butt rods? Looking at the rod in place with a very high angle it doesn't look very efficient for trolling.
I have had no issues pulling feathers and marauders.
Quote from: Bill B on July 22, 2024, 03:08:31 AMI have had no issues pulling feathers and marauders.
Bill did you have any luck when trolling?
Quote from: sabaman1 on July 22, 2024, 03:01:53 AMI have a question? How do people troll on the boat seeing it has a closed stern? Did the crew use bent butt rods? Looking at the rod in place with a very high angle it doesn't look very efficient for trolling.
Use a heavy rubber band on the reel handle as mentioned and it'll all work fine-remember it's not about catching them one at a time but raising the school and feeding them bait.
Quote from: whalebreath on July 22, 2024, 05:36:30 AMQuote from: sabaman1 on July 22, 2024, 03:01:53 AMI have a question? How do people troll on the boat seeing it has a closed stern? Did the crew use bent butt rods? Looking at the rod in place with a very high angle it doesn't look very efficient for trolling.
Use a heavy rubber band on the reel handle as mentioned and it'll all work fine-remember it's not about catching them one at a time but raising the school and feeding them bait.
That's not what usually happens. We're not trolling for Albacore anymore! But the ones that hit the trolling lures are often not alone and if you get a bait in quickly you might get one, be it a YFT, Dorado or Wahoo. People often hang around the bait tank waiting for a troller to go off so they a drop back a bait. Me? I'd rather drop back a Wahoo bomb!
Quote from: Bill B on July 22, 2024, 02:29:43 AMI trust that layout for trolling way more than a leash tied to the rail. :d. Bill
Not me! I think the SoA is the only boat in the SoCal fleet with a closed transom like that. Trolling straps are better!
I've been on many trips where only the trollers were catching. The sportfishers I fish on have always had an open stern and for the most part always hang the rods from below the rails with trolling straps. Sometimes even hang cord spliced to heavy mono for the lures to attach and troll them from the corners of stern rail. So on sportfishers in general they flatline troll like PJ mentioned.
Quote from: MarkT on July 22, 2024, 06:04:08 AMNot me! I think the SoA is the only boat in the SoCal fleet with a closed transom
Yes, it's going to be a bit of an adjustment for me in October, especially since I am looking for that "bucket list" wahoo and I am used to trolling with a leash. But hey, different boat, different technique! - john
Quote from: Brewcrafter on July 22, 2024, 06:28:50 AMQuote from: MarkT on July 22, 2024, 06:04:08 AMNot me! I think the SoA is the only boat in the SoCal fleet with a closed transom
Yes, it's going to be a bit of an adjustment for me in October, especially since I am looking for that "bucket list" wahoo and I am used to trolling with a leash. But hey, different boat, different technique! - john
John, you still can use a rail strap, just loop it through and hang the rig over the rail... good luck!
(https://alantani.com/gallery/38/1583-220724225658.jpeg)
Quote from: CI_Seawolf on July 22, 2024, 09:12:24 PMQuote from: Brewcrafter on July 22, 2024, 06:28:50 AMQuote from: MarkT on July 22, 2024, 06:04:08 AMNot me! I think the SoA is the only boat in the SoCal fleet with a closed transom
Yes, it's going to be a bit of an adjustment for me in October, especially since I am looking for that "bucket list" wahoo and I am used to trolling with a leash. But hey, different boat, different technique! - john
John, you still can use a rail strap, just loop it through and hang the rig over the rail... good luck!
I did that one one trip after you suggested it. It worked but not as good as an open transom like all the other boats.
Yes, there are drawbacks, and like PJ, improvisation is required.
AFTCO makes a flat line clip:
https://www.aftco.com/products/roller-troller-flat-line-clips
I tried the AFTCO Flatline Clips, they did not work for trolling marauders at wahoo speed.
It's pretty nerve racking at first but here is how we troll of the Pacific Voyager.
After my first trip I made my own leash/strap because I didn't like now the boats were "sun burned", they weren't but I wasn't taking any chances.
I've never caught anything of size on the troll down in San Diego/Mexican waters, but it beats sitting in the galley.
I like your set up PJ, hope you don't have a patient on it because I'm making one.
Steve
Steve have it! Hope it works for ya
That's the way it's done on every boat other than the SoA! Works for me!
Same for me. Takes a bit of getting used to unhooking the rod when a fish is on, but really not a huge deal.
I have 2 trolling straps and a release clip. All are coming on my SoA 10 day. On the SoA, the release clip on the trolling strap should be money!
Heck ya Mark!
That looks so entirely janky that I can't quite bring myself to take it seriously.
You're telling me these are professional sportfishing boats and their trolling configuration is to sling rods by a bit of seatbelt from the transom rail?
I've got to be missing something here.
Quote from: stoked4fishin on August 01, 2024, 03:59:06 AMHeck ya Mark!
Whoever follows me in the trolling rotation can use it too since it's not attached to my rig.
Quote from: boon on August 01, 2024, 04:02:54 AMThat looks so entirely janky that I can't quite bring myself to take it seriously.
You're telling me these are professional sportfishing boats and their trolling configuration is to sling rods by a bit of seatbelt from the transom rail?
I've got to be missing something here.
It's rock solid and all the local, and long range boats, in SoCal do it that way. Your reel has to have trolling lugs.
It works!
Quote from: boon on August 01, 2024, 04:02:54 AMThat looks so entirely janky that I can't quite bring myself to take it seriously.
You're telling me these are professional sportfishing boats and their trolling configuration is to sling rods by a bit of seatbelt from the transom rail?
I've got to be missing something here.
I thought it was sketch too Boon but it works just fine.
The web/seat belt material has a 500 pound breaking rating.
With the reel in strike setting all you hear is that wonderful sound of the clicker screaming and line peeling.
I've only caught football size Yellowfin and Skipjacks. They don't even slow the boat down. You get them on top of the water and skip them on the surface to the boat.
A couple years ago we caught a 36 inch or so Mako on the troll.
The benefit of the open transom and trolling straps is that the rod points straight at the lure and the line is at a much lower angle. Mike just liked the look of a closed transom, it wasn't based on better performance! I've been on a boat with no rod holders outside the galley windows so you'd have a better view... and less space for rods. Yeah, only boat that did that!
I'll be honest I wondered for a long time what the heck the lugs were for. Then I wondered what the heck they had to do with trolling. Then I wondered how the heck people didn't get more rods pulled overboard. But I guess the answer is light drag setting
Quote from: boon on July 22, 2024, 12:57:06 AMI gotta ask the question, why is that stern rodholder so janky? Reel sitting on the transom, can't even turn the handle?
Never bothered me. I'm not sure why you would turn the handle in the holder other than to adjust the trolling position, you lift the rod up a bit, crank to get the jig where you want, put the rod down?
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 01, 2024, 11:05:34 AMI'll be honest I wondered for a long time what the heck the lugs were for. Then I wondered what the heck they had to do with trolling. Then I wondered how the heck people didn't get more rods pulled overboard. But I guess the answer is light drag setting
Back in the day Jason (and I have still seen similar setups in use today) you would have belts/shoulder straps that you could also clip into and have the rod butt set into a gymbal and use your shoulders/back to help put force on the rod leaving your hand free for just the reel. Getting pulled over definitely a hazard! - john
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 01, 2024, 11:05:34 AMI'll be honest I wondered for a long time what the heck the lugs were for. Then I wondered what the heck they had to do with trolling. Then I wondered how the heck people didn't get more rods pulled overboard. But I guess the answer is light drag setting
Suffice to say that hanging the rods from the stern rail because you don't have any rod holders was not the original intention of them.
I maintain that the entire thing is 110% janky and it's like they've come up with a "good enough, I guess" solution and just stuck with it.
There are multimillion dollar sportfishers out there set up more or less purely for trolling, and let's just say they don't have the reels sitting on the covering board or rods dangling from the stern on a couple of straps.
The straps allow the boats to make much sharper turns as the rod tips swing and always point toward the lures eliminating many tangles.
I always inspect the straps and clips and have only found one clip that should have failed several trips before. I keep a extra heavy strap I built when I worked for Wilderness Pack Specialies with quality stainless steel clips in my takle bag.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 01, 2024, 11:05:34 AMI'll be honest I wondered for a long time what the heck the lugs were for. Then I wondered what the heck they had to do with trolling. Then I wondered how the heck people didn't get more rods pulled overboard. But I guess the answer is light drag setting
The lugs are for attaching straps to when you're in a fighting chair or standup harness.
We should take a poll on how many folks have lost or watched someone else lose a rod overboard on a long range trip. I'll bet it is quite a few.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on August 02, 2024, 06:18:47 AMWe should take a poll on how many folks have lost or watched someone else lose a rod overboard on a long range trip. I'll bet it is quite a few.
-J
I've seen it, never done it!
I have seen 2 go over the side, 1 gone and 1 recovered.
Quote from: jurelometer on August 02, 2024, 06:18:47 AMWe should take a poll on how many folks have lost or watched someone else lose a rod overboard on a long range trip. I'll bet it is quite a few.
-J
Ron Jones should be able to provide a first-hand account of how that feels while on the 2018 SOA 8-day charter! ;)
I've seen 3 go over, 2 are probably what Lee saw.
1. Mix up at the corner when a deckhand was trying to clear a tuna induced tangle.
2. A fisherman was caught off guard and the fish yanked the rod out of his hands
3. Careless fisherman was casting and the rod slipped from his grasp. Luckily it was recovered by another fisherman (Alan) and returned.
Guilty :(
I lost a Phenix M1 with a Calcutta 700s on it.
Inshore rock cod fishing on a 18 foot boat that got hit by a cresting wave from out of nowhere. Knocked me right on my pink pillows. Hit my wrist as I was falling on the gunal and that was all she wrote.
Tried to snag it or the line for about a half hour but...
My contribution to the Sea God's.
Seen 3 go over on the RP; never once on a troll. One was a result of deckhands clearing a tangle and the macrame passing of rods. "Got it?" "Got it!" Important to communicate clearly in those situations, and this angler didn't communicate. Luck was on his side as once the tangle was cleared deckhand was left holding some spectra that felt "heavy" and he handlined the rod back up.
Other two rods were tossed while losing grip on a cast. The most recent by one of my closest buddies on the trip this last June. Ouch... Happens.... - john
So much fun tossing a $1000 rod and reel over the side.... NOT!!!!
Now I am the thread off-topic culprit :)
Getting back on topic - I used to drag an Aftco roller troller flatline clip or two with me all over the planet when I was in my trolling phase. I lurved those things. I seem to remember that the stainless clip was bendable if you were not getting the right range on the release adjustment wheel. Don't know if you can bend it enough to prevent premature release of a jumbo Marauder, but I could drag pretty large skirted lures and Magnum Rapalas at wahoo speeds.
If you want to use PJ's setup and don't want to scratch up the reel, might be worth looking into using something other than those carabiners to attach to the harness lugs.
-J
I use these. Do not go "cheep" though, non "stainless steel" springs can fail.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/38/1583-020824202325.webp)
I have a rod leash with this type of clip. Just can't bring myself to trust it with a $1500 trolling rig. I like Lee's clips better. Bill
Quote from: Bill B on August 03, 2024, 03:29:56 AMI have a rod leash with this type of clip. Just can't bring myself to trust it with a $1500 trolling rig. I like Lee's clips better. Bill
I trust those!
I do too Steve but the ones I found have SS springs, the lower price SS ones have carbon steel springs. The brass ones all have carbon steel springs that WILL fail.
Here's my rod mounted securely in my couch rod holder using an Aftco flat line clip attached to the rod clamp. Line would enter the water from a much lower angle and elevation. Problem solved!
Me likey!
My biggest fish (until the Bluefin days) was a 140 lb Bigeye that hit a trolled Zuker first thing in the morning. My rod strap was homemade, 1/2" 3 strand hard lay rope with Klein snaps short spliced in. I worked on line crews back in those days, and learned a few things. Reel was a 6/O with a bronze spool, Rod was a Calstar 6465xxh.
ah, the days when we had hair!!!! ;D
Quote from: alantani on August 06, 2024, 05:53:10 AMah, the days when we had hair!!!! ;D
Those days aren't over for some of us!
But the color is different for some of us.
It's called looking distinguished!
I still have mine, unbelievable!
This year
I think they make hats like that...
This year
[/quote]
Lol, the guy working the counter in the background has a look on his face like he was wishing that was him posing with those tuna
Those guys in Pt. Loma Sportfishing are nice, if I was working there and saw all those happy folks outside, I guess I might be a bit envious too.
Awesome catch of tuna Seawolf, obviously you have the touch! :d
Thank you Jim, like the old saying "even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while."