Reel Repair by Alan Tani

General Maintenance Tips => General Questions and Trouble Shooting => Topic started by: wussero on August 30, 2024, 08:19:58 PM

Title: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: wussero on August 30, 2024, 08:19:58 PM
Recently I over tightened the right side plate to the frame of the reel.  I ended up stripping out the frame on my Torque 12 SD.  I noticed the side plate has only 2 holes for the screws vs 3 on my 25N.  How do I avoid stripping next time?  Tighten both at the same time?
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: alantani on August 30, 2024, 10:34:50 PM
to shim the hole, i find that a copper strip works best.  normally, they don't strip out.  was it badly corroded already?
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: Keta on August 30, 2024, 11:51:44 PM
A inch pound tork screwdriver is the best way to avoid this. Put all of the screws in and just barely tighten them then finish tightening like you would tighten lug nuts.
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: wussero on August 31, 2024, 04:32:12 PM
Quote from: alantani on August 30, 2024, 10:34:50 PMto shim the hole, i find that a copper strip works best.  normally, they don't strip out.  was it badly corroded already?

Nope.  Maybe from me constantly overtightening?  Alan, how would I get a copper strip to fit in the tiny hole?  Where would you get it?
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: foakes on August 31, 2024, 04:46:08 PM
Hobby shops have small sheets of different thicknesses.

I have also used a few strands of copper wire after stripping the insulation.

Sometimes also a soda or beer can tiny piece of aluminum works fine.

Best, Fred
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: Keta on August 31, 2024, 06:10:34 PM
In an emergency a toothpick works too but it is a temporary fix.
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: CI_Seawolf on August 31, 2024, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: Keta on August 30, 2024, 11:51:44 PMA inch pound tork screwdriver is the best way to avoid this. Put all of the screws in and just barely tighten them then finish tightening like you would tighten lug nuts.
Lee, would a gun scope screwdriver that has a built in torque control be a good idea?
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: oc1 on August 31, 2024, 07:15:22 PM
Another approach is to bore out the hole and insert a sleeve from McMaster-Carr.  That way you will not have to gripe with it every time the screw is removed.
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: alantani on August 31, 2024, 11:34:30 PM
i've found that the aluminum from a soda can is too soft.  that's why i bought a sheet of copper from the local hobby store. 
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: Keta on August 31, 2024, 11:38:43 PM
Quote from: CI_Seawolf on August 31, 2024, 07:11:36 PMLee, would a gun scope screwdriver that has a built in torque control be a good idea?

Yes
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: wussero on September 01, 2024, 01:02:43 AM
What inch pound per screw would u recommend for a reel?
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: MarkT on September 01, 2024, 01:56:12 AM
I just snug them up. This isn't an application for a torque wrench!
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: Keta on September 01, 2024, 03:10:46 AM
They are all about the same, mine is a Wheeler.  They run a bit over $50.
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: wussero on September 01, 2024, 06:34:03 AM
Yes the reel got sprayed once.  Was corroded to some degree.  I cleaned it up,  was fine for years.   But I guess it eventually got to it.

It was a good run.  Frame will be my fishing memorial fund. ;)
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: Gfish on September 01, 2024, 05:43:51 PM
Quote from: MarkT on September 01, 2024, 01:56:12 AMI just snug them up. This isn't an application for a torque wrench!

Yup. Keep thinking "aluminum". Use only 2 fingers. If you think they may loosen-up, put some non-hardening thread-lock compound on 'em. Says the guy who's stripped many screw holes... the other day I snapped-in half a line roller screw; steel into steel, wasn't expecting that.
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: Keta on September 01, 2024, 06:32:58 PM
Cheep PRC screws.
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: jurelometer on September 01, 2024, 07:05:18 PM
One point that folk haven't mentioned yet, but don't know if it applies to this specific  situation. 

With blind holes, the volume of space from the end of the tightened screw tip  to the bottom of the hole is also the maximum volume of excess lubricant that can be in the hole without inhibiting proper tightening (minus a small amount for the trapped air to compress).  The hole turns into sort of a a hydraulic cylinder, and that grease is not going to compress. Good to put the grease on the screw, and not in the hole, and just a bit of grease.

Back to the main question, the purpose of tightening sideplate screws beyond just-snug is mostly to prevent them from loosening from vibration, and there is lots of vibration on power boats.  If using hand tools, you  can usually feel the point where the screw is locking into place.  Just try loosening  the screw at that point and you will get a pretty good idea if it will resist vibrating loose. 

If you ask on the Penn University sub forum, they might be able to tell you the specific torque setting they are using.

https://alantani.com/index.php/board,105.0.html (https://alantani.com/index.php/board,105.0.html)


I don't torque-set reels, but do need to tighten small parts to a specific  setting for other projects.  Being too cheap to buy the proper tool for lower torque settings, I make my own torque wrenches with a 3D printer and tune with a lever and a scale.  After using the torque wrench a couple times, it is pretty easy to get a feel for the proper setting.  For smaller screws (3-6mm) threaded into aluminum, the proper setting is usually the point past snug right before you have to start to muscle up.  Right when that that spidey-sense just starts to kick in :)

-J
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: jurelometer on September 01, 2024, 07:15:00 PM
Quote from: Gfish on September 01, 2024, 05:43:51 PM
Quote from: MarkT on September 01, 2024, 01:56:12 AMI just snug them up. This isn't an application for a torque wrench!

Yup. Keep thinking "aluminum". Use only 2 fingers. If you think they may loosen-up, put some non-hardening thread-lock compound on 'em. Says the guy who's stripped many screw holes... the other day I snapped-in half a line roller screw; steel into steel, wasn't expecting that.


If that screw broken inside the mating male/female threads, probably galling, a common problem with threads in stainless to stainless.  Lubrication can help.

-J
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: foakes on September 01, 2024, 08:58:05 PM
Quote from: Keta on September 01, 2024, 06:32:58 PMCheep PRC screws.

I can't stand those cheap screws that seem to come out of everything we get from Asia these days.

Basically not designed to be replaced.

Another point along these lines —-

Having visited (4) reel manufacturing firms —- I have never seen a reel assembly tech using a torque driver for assembly.

I was always taught that experience is the best teacher —- and to just snug up the screw 1/8th turn past the first resistance.  That is just about right.  The other thing is to slightly "reverse-spin" the screw before inserting it just to make sure the threads are catching  perfectly and straight to prevent  cross-threading.  Plus I lightly use marine-grade grease on any screws that will be used in salt water applications.  This makes then both easier to insert plus easier to remove.

Good to remember that these are fishing reels —- not high tech instruments —- just fishing reels.

Best, Fred
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: Keta on September 01, 2024, 09:29:02 PM
I use a inch pound screwdriver for firearms.

I have seen "apes" strip lug nuts and one time one of my co workers broke a 3/4" grade 5 bolt.  For that application a grade 8 bolt was required but he was clueless about bolt grades.

Most stainless steel bolts and screws are made from the wrong alloy, thus gauling, stretching and breaking.  One of the machines at the algae company I work for is stainless, most likely 316, and the half wits have broken or stretched many bolts.  I purchased a 150 foot pound torque wrench and put all of the torque specs on the side of the cover when I rebuilt the machine but they are too lazy to get the torque wrench.  They have broken several 7/8" and 1" bolts using a rattle gun and I have had to put in helicoils on all of the 3/4" bolt holes that secure the bonnet due to stripping.  They do use food grade anti size after me  threatening them with broken fingers.
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: foakes on September 01, 2024, 09:51:17 PM
I do seriously use torque wrenches on all of my automotive and truck repairs and installs..

Plus, I check the torque and tightness on all lug nuts —- trailers, vehicles, hitches, front end parts, brake & axle parts that I work on.  And I verify torque settings even after leaving the tire shop, and specify that the proper torque lbs are used before anyone else works on my vehicles.

Best, Fred
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: Keta on September 01, 2024, 11:18:19 PM
Torking lug nuts is critical.  A well known west coast tire shop broke 3 out of 5 lug studs on my wife's car.  When she go home, 5 miles, she told me she thought they sold her a bad tire. I went and looked and found the broken studd with 2 undbroken ones side by side.  Flopping around destroyed the rim and the tire shop denied the responsibility.  I went there right after finding the damage and they said Mary hit something.  The rim was bent and the holes that the unbroken studs were in were wallowed out...after ,5 miles and 45 minutes.

The tire dealer makes the employees  double time in the shop and they use rattle guns to tighten the nuts.  I quit going there years before and buy my tires from a friend that I do reel repair for. His manager is also has a unit across from my shop and we are friends.  Living in a small town has benefits.
Title: Re: How to prevent stripping of frame from overtightening
Post by: cathauler65 on October 12, 2024, 10:39:30 PM
Main thing to ensure for all screws into metal or composite is to reverse them once in the hole until the screw thread 'drops' into the hole's  thread - you don't want screws to cut a new thread in composite nor cross threads in a metal hole.