One of the reels that came from Keith (RIP to the legend) was a Shimano bantam mag 100. It came with bronze bushings, tied to the reel with a piece of string. I put those in the reel in place of the ball bearings a while ago. And I love fishing with it. Seems to cast about as well with the brass as it did with the balls. Gotta oil them but don't have to worry about salty balls.
So I guess the question is were those something that came with the reel from Shimano, or were those an aftermarket part? The schematic wasn't helpful on this question. I did try to find my own answer before asking here. I swear I remember philaroman (where's he been? I miss his posts) mentioning them before, but I'm wrong a lot.
They're a standard size that would work on many baitcasters. Just for the heck of it, I wanna get a few more sets to put them in other reels. And I guess I'm wondering if it's they're a part I can search for or do I need to get someone to make them?
The only baitcasters I've seen with brass bushings are the old Abu Ambassadeur's. I have a S. Bantam 100(no mag) and it has ball bearings except for a nylon looking "cast control bushing".
it would not be a surprise to me if i found brass bushings in an old bantam.
Interesting. Mine came in a box with a manual, no date on either one. I thought it might be the first iteration of the Bantam series, maybe not? The schematic is for 2 models; the regular 100(mine) and the EX version.
Will prolly be selling this one.
Quote from: Gfish on September 18, 2024, 03:39:00 PMInteresting. Mine came in a box with a manual, no date on either one. I thought it might be the first iteration of the Bantam series, maybe not? The schematic is for 2 models; the regular 100(mine) and the EX version.
Will prolly be selling this one.
Can you check for bearings vs bushings before you sell?
Sorry, gonna use the right terms. Can you check for plain bearing vs ball bearings?
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 18, 2024, 02:26:59 PMAnd I love fishing with it. Seems to cast about as well with the brass as it did with the balls.
So I guess the question is were those something that came with the reel from Shimano, or were those an aftermarket part?
I think those brass bushings came with the reel from factory, I have a Bantam Magnumlite 2000 and it has those brass bushing you said and I can confirm that cast pretty smooth.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 18, 2024, 02:26:59 PMI wanna get a few more sets to put them in other reels. And I guess I'm wondering if it's they're a part I can search for or do I need to get someone to make them?
I might be wrong but I think those bearings are called oil bearings (oil impregnated brass bearings)
https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,27063.msg310059.html#msg310059
I switched the stock drag washer for carbon fiber washers, some pretty big washers for the size of the reel, I had to use a 113h and 113HN washers (cut to fit) on this small reel
After this conversation, thought I would check some of the bantams I am getting rid of —- and discovered that the sintered bronze bushing is the exact same bushing/bearing as on the D-A-M Quick Champion Baitcasters — which came both ways in the 600, 700, & 800 series — "B" meant ball bearings, no B meant bushings.
Tried a Bantam 10SG, a Bantam 10XSG, and a Bantam 100.
It is just an exact drop in switch-out and all 3 Bantams function perfectly with the DQ Bronze Sintered Bearings.
A Sintered bronze bushing will last much longer than a ball bearing. And be less troublesome. Shimano knew this, as did D-A-M.
I can send you some, N/C.
Best, Fred
The ball bearings, cheap-looking, 7 balls/bearing, with a minimal-looking cage. 2nd picture, the cast control bushing. Tap to enlarge.
Quote from: foakes on September 18, 2024, 04:50:15 PMA Sintered bronze bushing will last much longer than a ball bearing. And be less troublesome. Shimano knew this, as did D-A-M.
Best, Fred
So did ABU, as they were their main support bearings, other than a lone rotor ball bearing, in their legendary Cardinal, and other, spinning reels.
Many of us old codgers identify them as Oilites, which were originally developed by Chrysler in 1932. It was quite a development and discovery at the time.
It is too bad so many of the younger generations aren't aware of their usefulness. It seems like most of the people nowadays opt for multiple ball bearings that will deteriorate much sooner than Oilites, especially in SW situations.
In the past year or so I have upgraded several of my old bantam reel, plus a few other older reels. Swapping bronze bearings for ball bearings of a high grade, and putting in carbon drag disk. The ball bearing seem to help a good bit with casting lighter baits, not a lot of difference casting heavier stuff that flies good.
The old Shimano 20/40 star drag came with a bronze main bearing and that one cast as good as they come. I changed them for ball bearings in the belief that a ball bearing must be better then a bush but eventually realised that the latter make very little difference to the distance if any.
Some of those bushes are made from porous sintered metal and you force oil in to the microscopic channels in the metal. Those bushes require very little service which is a big plus.
I see I am repeating most of what is already written above, sorry!
;D I have a big smile going on . What goes around , comes around . Oilites for the win ..
The one downside to plain bearings is that they do not adapt to misalignment as well as ball bearings. And ball bearings are so inexpensive and popular now, making a reel with poor alignment and stuffed full of ball bearings makes good business sense if you are cynical enough.
With the potential for better alignment with modern machined aluminum frames and sideplates, perhaps it is time to give plain bearings another look.
I agree with Cornelius. IMHO, most fishermen would be better off with sintered plain bearings.
I saw a baitcaster advertised recently with "revolutionary high-tech polymer" maintenance -free bearings, which were simply common Rulon plain bearings. Not a bad idea for a bass reel, but I would go with sintered bronze for larger stuff. But for a Bantam, Rulon would be fun to try.
-J
https://oilite.com/ They have a selection of different material .
Quote from: oldmanjoe on September 18, 2024, 09:24:48 PMhttps://oilite.com/ They have a selection of different material .
The glass filled PTFE bearing is Oilite's equivalent to Rulon, which is the most well known trade name for the stuff. Super low friction.
-J
Way back when ball bearing reels were first becoming popular ABU did their own assessment and concluded that bushings gave the same performance in their baitcasters. They eventually had to make the transition because of the popular enthusiasm for the very idea of ball bearings.
I quit using the balls (and modern reels in general) because of maintenance issues in a hostile environment. Lots of salt and the occasional dunk. Dunk a ball bearing baitcaster and you will absolutely be going inside that reel soon. During normal use (splash but no dunking) I would get a half dozen trips out of them before a disassembly. Frequent disassembly of modern reels takes it's own toll, especially if there are screws threaded into plastic.
With bushings and a simple design, all it takes is a good oiling through the external ports. Maybe an occasional washing if you're the fastidious type.
I wonder why nobody ever made a spindle ball bearing that could be easily removed for cleaning through the outside of the head plate..
My 1st Bait caster was a bantam 10xsg bought as a combo on my 1st TDY on a Guard base at the BX in 1986.I still have it and
Replaced the bushings with BB ::) Thought I was making it better at the time...I may still have the bushings somewhere.
Quote from: jgp12000 on September 18, 2024, 10:08:28 PMReplaced the bushings with BB ::) Thought I was making it better at the time...I may still have the bushings somewhere.
there are many of us that have made that "mistake", even modern casting reels have plastic bushings on strategic places and many have found that replacing it for a BB was unnoticeable and with no gain on casting, i.e. the white nylon bushing on the right side plate for the spool shaft on the diawa saltist 20h 1st gen
I first got an attitude about ball bearings from old used Penn's. I noticed former owners didn't keep-up on maintenance and I would have to deal with difficult removal issues from corroded cups if I wanted to replace them. All of them that I recall, except for a little-used 210, needed replacement.
The gear side b.bearings on the larger Senators were only serviceable by a complete tear-down of that side. So I can't really blame former owners for Penn's bad design. I've noticed the b.bearings in the cup were no longer available from Mystic for many Penn's.
I have a 1/0 and 2/0 with the easy maintenance bushings as well as many other Penn models and a few Ocean City's. And I've never noticed that a Penn or O.C. bushing was worn-out on any of the used reels I've owned.
The best ball bearings I've had on a conventional were the one's Tom had available on some of his Cortez Classic tail-plate models; thumb screw cups, very easy to adjust and easily removable.
Fred, thank you. That actually helps me a lot. I believe we are talking about the 3x10x4 spool end bearings and that's awesome.
I've looked at the catalogs and that doesn't seem to be a standard size brass or bronze bushing so DAM and Shimano must have made them for the purpose. The bantam also has a 5x11x4 Bearing as well, which is also not a standard size for brass or bronze. That's the other one to track down.
I've gone and looked at what the abu cardinals used and it's a bit bigger. Which makes sense because a 5mm wide pinion... Would make for a very fast spinner even with a small main.
Apparently sintered bronze can be machined pretty well. Maybe I'll have to beg one of our resident machinists to make a few sets.
How many would you like, Jason?
I'll send them out today.
Best, Fred
Quote from: foakes on September 19, 2024, 02:33:56 PMHow many would you like, Jason?
I'll send them out today.
Best, Fred
Any more than 3 sets would be me just being greedy. I'll PM you my address again.
Much appreciated 👍
Will do, I'll send out (4) sets.
On the way now.
Best, Fred
I guess if you ever opened up a bantam you have seen the t-iny magnets in those guys,I dont see how they did anything? Are they still available.Mine has been retired in the shop attic for a while,could it be another BFS reel ::)
Quote from: Hytekrednek on September 18, 2024, 05:46:21 PMIn the past year or so I have upgraded several of my old bantam reel, plus a few other older reels. Swapping bronze bearings for ball bearings of a high grade, and putting in carbon drag disk. The ball bearing seem to help a good bit with casting lighter baits, not a lot of difference casting heavier stuff that flies good.
that was my experience as well - on several Lews Speedspools which is the same reel as the Bantam, they came with the bronze bushings and I put in ceramics. The ceramics are much better for light lures which is all I ever cast, made the reel capable of throwing 1/6oz easily, 1/8 with care. No real difference noticeable above 1/4oz.
One reel repairer here converted reels to use Teflon bushes, on the understanding they were slicker than anything under the sun, he obviously made them.
Same result as for others, un measurable gain for the caster and measurable wallet gain for repair man. :-\
I don't think he was dishonest, just selling to gullible anglers.
This was a long time ago, perhaps there are even better materials around these days?
Quote from: jurelometer on September 18, 2024, 09:14:28 PMThe one downside to plain bearings is that they do not adapt to misalignment as well as ball bearings. And ball bearings are so inexpensive and popular now, making a reel with poor alignment and stuffed full of ball bearings makes good business sense if you are cynical enough.
With the potential for better alignment with modern machined aluminum frames and sideplates, perhaps it is time to give plain bearings another look.
I agree with Cornelius. IMHO, most fishermen would be better off with sintered plain bearings.
I saw a baitcaster advertised recently with "revolutionary high-tech polymer" maintenance -free bearings, which were simply common Rulon plain bearings. Not a bad idea for a bass reel, but I would go with sintered bronze for larger stuff. But for a Bantam, Rulon would be fun to try.
-J
Anyone ever try the Newell "upgrade" bushings made to fit many of the Penn models? I had a pair but never got the chance to test them vs Penn stock bushings.
Okay. I am going to scratch my itch and dive a bit deeper on what I learned about plain bearings. I am not trained in this stuff, just read up on it for some projects that I was working on:
Teflon has really low friction but terrible mechanical properties for a bearing. Rulon (Teflon with glass and/or carbon fibers added) has extremely low friction and much better mechanical properties.
Rulon also has the strange behavior of coefficient of friction decreasing with increase in load and/or surface speed (RPMs in our case), so the best performing Rulon bearing is the one with the smallest surface area for the load capacity. Strange stuff.
When looking at plain bearing specs, you care about coefficient of friction, max pressure (radial load in our case) and max velocity (RPMs in our case). You usually care about something called the PV rating which is combines pressure and velocity. But with reels, we only have peak velocity when casting, and that is not under much load. So mostly CoF and max pressure...
You can do a bit of rudimentary math to figure out the surface area of the bearing contact area to determine if you are within your drag capacity for load. RPMs should be fine for Rulon.
Here is a table with the specs:
https://www.tstar.com/RULON-COMPARISON-CHART (https://www.tstar.com/RULON-COMPARISON-CHART)
Sintered bronze (Oilite) bearings tend to handle a bit more load, but even Rulon should be plenty strong enough. If you don't want to do the math, go look at the max load ratings for Rulon and Oilite bearings at McMaster-Carr. Remember that the load is distribute across both spool bearings on a casting reel.
As noted before in this thread, unlike ball bearings which can shift a bit on the races to accommodate some misalignment, plain bearings adapt to misalignment by wearing unevenly, and the amount of friction on unaligned plain bearings is going to be much higher.
The key to good performance with plain bearings is good alignment. The tried and true materials have excellent low friction properties. IMHO, the better performance that some folk see with ball bearings is probably more due to adapting to misalignment than the coefficient of friction of the plain bearing material. And Rulon should kick it up a notch from Oilite if the reel was well aligned.
As for the Newell speed bearing/bushing: It looks like an injection molded part. Considering the era and the size of the manufacturer, I would put my bet on Delrin, which has pretty good frictional and decent load properties, but is not going to wear well on a stock Jigmaster with the frame and spindle flexing under higher load.... But failure is gradual and not catastrophic, so you just need a box of them, and kee replacing...
-J
I will say , if you pay attention to the details of disassembly and reassembly of your reels a bushed reel will be silky smooth . A little blue printing helps ..
Fred, they arrived Saturday but I didn't see them til yesterday. Thank you!
You bet, Jason!
Best, Fred
I ordered sintered bronze 5x11x4 (meant for RC use) and 4x7x2.5 (also meant for an RC car)
I believe my first de-balled (not neutered) reel will be an Abu maxZ reel.
I was thinking about my Calcutta that I use for close surf fishing but frankly that one's doing just great exactly how it is, and I have no desire to change anything about it.
Roller/ball bearings have their place but in my opinion they are over used. Plain bearings take more abuse and keep working.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 30, 2024, 01:18:07 PMI ordered sintered bronze 5x11x4 (meant for RC use) and 4x7x2.5 (also meant for an RC car)
I believe my first de-balled (not neutered) reel will be an Abu maxZ reel.
I was thinking about my Calcutta that I use for close surf fishing but frankly that one's doing just great exactly how it is, and I have no desire to change anything about it.
Maybe something to be aware of and possibly play with if you switch to plain bearings for the spool:
Play with the sideplate/foot/spacer fit and see how much you can shift things around, before tightening the screws. Most reels use screws to screw holes for alignment, but there is a lot of clearance there. Not to mention the tolerances of the parts themselves, many of which are forged/stamped from flat stock.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that they had a special alignment fixture used to assemble new reels at the Newell factory. Joe has a couple posts on his techniques for aligning old Penn reels as well.
-J
So I remember you saying that one noteworthy benefit off ball bearings is they better tolerate misalignment. It sounds like you're advising that I check the alignment of the reel frame as I'm installing these bronze bits.
But what are my options if I find a reel is misaligned within ball tolerance but not within bronze tolerance? It sounds like try to shim, or change my plans?
Ball and roller bearings d, they wear out fast. If the misalignment is small fine lapping compound will fix a plane bearing but when lapping go slow and make sure 100% of the abrasive is removed when done. A Sharpy works almost as good as Prussian Blue to check contact.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 30, 2024, 05:27:06 PMSo I remember you saying that one noteworthy benefit off ball bearings is they better tolerate misalignment. It sounds like you're advising that I check the alignment of the reel frame as I'm installing these bronze bits.
But what are my options if I find a reel is misaligned within ball tolerance but not within bronze tolerance? It sounds like try to shim, or change my plans?
The inner race of a ball bearing can ever so slightly shift against the balls to tolerate a misalignment, for example on the drive-shaft of a spinning reel if the hole in the frame and sideplate is not perfectly aligned. With a bronze bearing all you have is the tolerance between the bearing and the hole it sits in, and the axle with the bearing.
Well my view is you are no longer just assembling a reel . You have to make the next step up and become a reel smith . That means that all your parts are measured and fitted to make the reel squared and parallel . You have to make sure the line bore is true between the plates , before you start lapping the spool and bearings . This becomes a test of time and patience
Quote from: oldmanjoe on October 01, 2024, 03:52:10 AMWell my view is you are no longer just assembling a reel . You have to make the next step up and become a reel smith . That means that all your parts are measured and fitted to make the reel squared and parallel . You have to make sure the line bore is true between the plates , before you start lapping the spool and bearings . This becomes a test of time and patience
It also depends on how much of a perfectionist one is and how much forgiveness of imperfection one is able to tolerate. ;) ;D
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 30, 2024, 05:27:06 PMSo I remember you saying that one noteworthy benefit off ball bearings is they better tolerate misalignment. It sounds like you're advising that I check the alignment of the reel frame as I'm installing these bronze bits.
But what are my options if I find a reel is misaligned within ball tolerance but not within bronze tolerance? It sounds like try to shim, or change my plans?
Quote from: Midway Tommy on October 01, 2024, 04:40:26 AMQuote from: oldmanjoe on October 01, 2024, 03:52:10 AMWell my view is you are no longer just assembling a reel . You have to make the next step up and become a reel smith . That means that all your parts are measured and fitted to make the reel squared and parallel . You have to make sure the line bore is true between the plates , before you start lapping the spool and bearings . This becomes a test of time and patience
It also depends on how much of a perfectionist one is and how much forgiveness of imperfection one is able to tolerate. ;) ;D
I do agree that if you just take a stock reel and maintain it properly, you are pretty much in game.
But...
Aligning a conventional (revolving spool) casting reel's spool bearings will affect casting performance and bearing longevity for either type of bearing. It is a topic that we don't spend much time on, compared to magic lubricants (Ha!) and swapping in fancy ball bearings. Alignment has the potential to affect rolling resistance much more significantly.
How much a casting improvement we would see from a hypothetical perfectly aligned ABU vs. a typical daily driver is an open question, as is how much plain bearings will affect this equation.
I would personally think more about alignment if I was trying to get the best casting performance (not just distance) for these reels. And I would also think
about it more if I was swapping out ball bearings for plain bearings.
Adjusting plain bearing fit by using an abrasive is essentially ovalling out the holes, so as Lee noted, this should be a minimal last step if used at all, and not a cure for anything but the most minimal of misalignment.
-J
If I was tackling the alignment question, the first thing I would do is set the spool up in between a properly aligned pair of machinist V-blocks and do spin tests(or some sort or rolling resistance test) with ball and plain bearing sets (with the bearings lightly held in place aligned as well), and then compare the results in this ideal situation with the same tests on a fully assembled reel.
[Side note: If the reel has a non-disengaging level wind, you could also remove a few parts to detach the levelwind and test again to see how much the levelwind is affecting the performance. If the majority of friction comes from the levelwind, maybe focus your efforts elsewhere.]
These test results would show me if there was an alignment issue worth pursuing, and give me a benchmark to test my modifications against.
Assuming a positive result on the spin test difference, I would first check parts for dimensional and squareness accuracy as Joe has posted elsewhere. I would then mess around with spin testing/and adjusting on assembly.
The final, hardest, and hopefully unnecessary step would be some sort of assembly fixture, which would have to be specific or at least adaptable for different reels. Blech. I wouldn definitely not go here until I knew that the potential improvement was there and that the easier options were not sufficient.
-J
Machinist blocks can get pricey . You can get away with one of these , you may have to modify / make a base plate for the wide spools .
https://www.amazon.com/Hobby-Fans-Propeller-Helicopter-Multirotor/dp/B09MZFM5HZ/ref=sr_1_3?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.6PgqcOcdixlnu_SaDHdSXBmTVPkhzMhID3GoSAh-1WfvuI9bwTKyqLbepnPg5SXgmfAWrCZnAT4TwGBUn1cu__SE35AAZVR-c6dHqSg70pSFi-Q02FSVPkD-ER-PS0N1t8-xqxI_48m_Q0QrdlSScdTxRul4RZTJtFYNSUMC1hR2iVfxkSuD30WYUNrAaICVebV1a1ME0o26KnkI3F-8KxyvVDWScZcJd24OzZakG2siqBU5wBbTnnIrTev2Ejay9y7meguFjBdz6c6PMSQF9DhbfcEOIUF_JWG2S4INDQ4.YUndxqB7QKgUEXK-9EGLcMGfdIulUos5IhgSNwWDBm0&dib_tag=se&keywords=Propeller+Balancer&qid=1727815625&sr=8-3
Good price for checking a fishing reel spool/shaft run out. A dial indicator would help.
I usually trash spools that are not true unless they are hard to find. My success rate at truing them has been low.
Quote from: oldmanjoe on October 01, 2024, 09:16:33 PMMachinist blocks can get pricey . You can get away with one of these , you may have to modify / make a base plate for the wide spools .
https://www.amazon.com/Hobby-Fans-Propeller-Helicopter-Multirotor/dp/B09MZFM5HZ/ref=sr_1_3?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.6PgqcOcdixlnu_SaDHdSXBmTVPkhzMhID3GoSAh-1WfvuI9bwTKyqLbepnPg5SXgmfAWrCZnAT4TwGBUn1cu__SE35AAZVR-c6dHqSg70pSFi-Q02FSVPkD-ER-PS0N1t8-xqxI_48m_Q0QrdlSScdTxRul4RZTJtFYNSUMC1hR2iVfxkSuD30WYUNrAaICVebV1a1ME0o26KnkI3F-8KxyvVDWScZcJd24OzZakG2siqBU5wBbTnnIrTev2Ejay9y7meguFjBdz6c6PMSQF9DhbfcEOIUF_JWG2S4INDQ4.YUndxqB7QKgUEXK-9EGLcMGfdIulUos5IhgSNwWDBm0&dib_tag=se&keywords=Propeller+Balancer&qid=1727815625&sr=8-3
Quote from: Keta on October 01, 2024, 11:29:38 PMGood price for checking a fishing reel spool/shaft run out. A dial indicator would help.
I usually trash spools that are not true unless they are hard to find. My success rate at truing them has been low.
I don't think that device is a match for this problem. It is designed more for observing and adjusting for weight imbalance in stuff like hobby propellers.
We need something that is going to hold the bearings in place AND be more accurate than the assembled reel will ever be to find our "ideal", but it doesn't have to be ridiculously accurate.
A couple small v- blocks with "0.0005" squareness are about $18 a pair from Shars, or about $35 if you want the ones with the screw hold that could be used to hold the bearings
(https://www.shars.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2c67f3d66235afc0960ee9244f9a4d30/3/0/303-5209e_1.jpg)
Some more inexpensive stuff is involved to align the two V-blocks to each other, but I'm not going to type it all up since nobody here is likely to actually try it.
-J
For our uses it is over kill. I have a set of V blocks bolted to a piece of 1/2" steel plate and 2 mag base dial indicators I use for checking bent shafts and spools. If I did not need/use them when I worked I would not have them.
This thread is getting way more interesting than I expected. And now I have new rabbit holes to dive into.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on October 02, 2024, 02:56:10 AMThis thread is getting way more interesting than I expected. And now I have new rabbit holes to dive into.
I'm seeing it as pretty much obsessive-compulsive. 😳 🙄 They're just fishing reels. 😉 😁
Quote from: Midway Tommy on October 02, 2024, 03:18:37 AMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on October 02, 2024, 02:56:10 AMThis thread is getting way more interesting than I expected. And now I have new rabbit holes to dive into.
I'm seeing it as pretty much obsessive-compulsive. 😳 🙄 They're just fishing reels. 😉 😁
You're not wrong. I could catch a fish with a sharpened stick or a net. In the end it's all about making excuses to play with our toys in different ways.
I'm trying to make a fast retrieve reel thats reliable and maybe even feels like a vintage reel. all while giving me something to tinker with for longer than I expected.
I'm loving this.
Using vintage materials and techniques you will have a hard time getting much over a 4:1 gear ratio. With a higher gear ratio you just about have to flick the spool with your finger to get it started. I'm not sure why that is but it may be the straight cut gears or spool weight. In it's day, a quadruple multiplying baitcaster with a whopping 16 IPT was all the rage.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on October 02, 2024, 03:18:37 AMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on October 02, 2024, 02:56:10 AMThis thread is getting way more interesting than I expected. And now I have new rabbit holes to dive into.
I'm seeing it as pretty much obsessive-compulsive. 😳 🙄 They're just fishing reels. 😉 😁
I was going to say that early on this thread but, man ! half of the at.com threads apply for that sentence >:D :fish , that said, lets continue with the theme :cf
So most of our shenanigans on this site relate to attempting to modernize an old reel. I think what makes this one interesting is I'm trying to go the other direction.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on October 02, 2024, 05:07:32 PMSo most of our shenanigans on this site relate to attempting to modernize an old reel. I think what makes this one interesting is I'm trying to go the other direction.
My view , it should be interesting . Can a modern day reel hold the tolerances for bushings , or will it twist and tork and bind up ?
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on October 02, 2024, 05:07:32 PMSo most of our shenanigans on this site relate to attempting to modernize an old reel. I think what makes this one interesting is I'm trying to go the other direction.
there is a reason why those "old reels" are still here with us, so you can still play with them, they use better quality materials than current moderns reels, I see nothing wrong for trying to use "old" techniques or materials on modern reels, you're not the 1st to un-modernize a fishing reel, me either.
kinda related to your attempt on this thread, I had switched the tiny bearings located under the shaft on some saltwater low profile reels (curado 300, tranx 500, komodo,etc) for those oilites Bearings, the tiny bearings under the shaft are very prone to corrode because they sit inside of a "cave" of the sideplate which trap saltwater, a bronze bushing will not suffer as bad as those super tiny balls on the SS bearings, the reel might not be as smooth as before but surely it will have a longer working life
The "modern" reel trend is high speed and a lot of roller/ball bearings. High speed is great for some fishing, not so good for others and roller/ball bearings tend to fail more often than plain bearings. In my opinion ball bearings in a reel handle is foolish. AR bearings are nice but they also tend to fail.
My favorite semi local (Oregon coast) fishing is for pacific halibut and deep pacific rockfish, neither benefit from a gear ratio higher than 4:1. Try dragging up 36-48 ounces from 300-700 feet deep and sometimes deeper with a high speed reel. The 3.25:1 gear ratio "high speed" 349H is perfect for this.
At 72 years old with severe arthritis in my wrists and a bad back I have reluctantly gone to e-reels for these fisheries.
Now that those troublesome ball bearings are gone, let's remove the drag washers and anti-reverse dog.
Not quite the same thing. I have a few old "knuckle buster" reels and they really suck. Semi modern drag stacks and AR dogs seldom if not never fail.
BTW, before I got "smart" and tossed my spinners I often disabled the AR dogs on these reels.
Disclaimer, in the last several years I reluctantly started using spinners again when my needs/ uses made them the better choice.
Quote from: steelfish on October 02, 2024, 05:41:52 PMthere is a reason why those "old reels" are still here with us, so you can still play with them, they use better quality materials than current moderns reels, I see nothing wrong for trying to use "old" techniques or materials on modern reels, you're not the 1st to un-modernize a fishing reel, me either.
kinda related to your attempt on this thread, I had switched the tiny bearings located under the shaft on some saltwater low profile reels (curado 300, tranx 500, komodo,etc) for those oilites Bearings, the tiny bearings under the shaft are very prone to corrode because they sit inside of a "cave" of the sideplate which trap saltwater, a bronze bushing will not suffer as bad as those super tiny balls on the SS bearings, the reel might not be as smooth as before but surely it will have a longer working life
That's part of the plan. How have those reels held up? And is there a noticeable difference in smoothness?
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on October 02, 2024, 06:07:47 PMThat's part of the plan. How have those reels held up? And is there a noticeable difference in smoothness?
they are still going strong, still fishing with the same bushing after some years. all I had done on their annual service is to clean the bushing and gave few passes with the polishing/buffing dremel wheel.
as I said on my previous post, the smoothness is noticeable less than before (BB) but nothing that cant be compared to a mid-priced fishing reel. example, smoothness while turning the handle on a store between a gold gen trinindad Vs grey Torium reels, you can feel the "flagship" trinidad reel feels 2x more smooth than the Torium but still, the torium reel "feel" pretty smooth, right?
more BB on a reel dont make it a better reel but a reel to service more often to keep its smoothness in good shape and just make it more expensive to repair.
I also had switched the Ball Bearings under the reel shaft on gold trinidad reels for bushings, I know its like re-badging the reel to its lower mid-priced brother torium, but I prefer that to had the reel broke on me while using it on a long/expensive fishing trip.
Steam turbine governors use plain bearings and seldom fail. When a steam turbine governor fails bad things happen.... I have seen a 1000hp steam turbine feedwater pump fail and it was impressive, and I almost lost friends when it came apart.
Quote from: Keta on October 02, 2024, 06:04:31 PMNot quite the same thing. I have a few old "knuckle buster" reels and they really suck. Semi modern drag stacks and AR dogs seldom if not never fail.
That's understandable seeing some of the fish you catch Lee. But a knuckle buster can make inshore small game a lot more exciting. Take your thrills wherever you can find them.
I will forgo an anti-reverse and drag to spice things up. But, I won't forgo a free-spool because of that couple of extra feet of casting distance.
Quote from: steelfish on October 02, 2024, 05:41:52 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on October 02, 2024, 05:07:32 PMSo most of our shenanigans on this site relate to attempting to modernize an old reel. I think what makes this one interesting is I'm trying to go the other direction.
there is a reason why those "old reels" are still here with us, so you can still play with them, they use better quality materials than current moderns reels, I see nothing wrong for trying to use "old" techniques or materials on modern reels, you're not the 1st to un-modernize a fishing reel, me either.
kinda related to your attempt on this thread, I had switched the tiny bearings located under the shaft on some saltwater low profile reels (curado 300, tranx 500, komodo,etc) for those oilites Bearings, the tiny bearings under the shaft are very prone to corrode because they sit inside of a "cave" of the sideplate which trap saltwater, a bronze bushing will not suffer as bad as those super tiny balls on the SS bearings, the reel might not be as smooth as before but surely it will have a longer working life
I have always wanted to replace those drive shaft bottom bearings with a bush, but actually never got to doing it. Slackness and also hard to find sizes down here. :-\
Most of my reels that have a bearing there, get replaced every year when I do a full service, sometimes more frequently.