Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Senator Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: elcarlstono on September 25, 2024, 05:52:32 PM

Title: Senator Special 113H - spool tension
Post by: elcarlstono on September 25, 2024, 05:52:32 PM
Got my first Senator a few weeks ago, 113H 4/0 Special (well it says Special on the side (red), but built more like the original Senators).  Got it broken down and serviced and it's a pretty nice reel.  I noted that it has a good bit of play in the spool tension, and that's with the side bearing cranked down all the way (had to loosen it with pliers). Then today I got a Longbeach 65 that has a spring behind the side bearing to keep tension that the Senator does not. 
Now the more I play with it, I noticed I can push in on the handle side bearing which will also cause the spool to lose engagement with the main gear. Not ready to go fishing. What am I missing?   I'm guessing I have a version that requires a spring but doesn't have it.
Title: Re: Senator Special 114H - spool tension
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on September 25, 2024, 06:11:05 PM
Sounds like a new bearing cup assembly in your future. I'll see if I have as many as I think I do
Title: Re: Senator Special 114H - spool tension
Post by: alantani on September 25, 2024, 06:23:20 PM
not sure why you are having spacing issues, but that's is what they are, jut spacing issues.  i'd shim the right and left spools so that the spool is centered.  the pinion gear should engage just fine at that point.  you'll need to find some shim washers with the same outside diameter as the bearings.  calipers will be very helpful here. 
Title: Re: Senator Special 114H - spool tension
Post by: elcarlstono on September 25, 2024, 06:33:00 PM
Here is what I have.  And to clarify, when I say "play" I mean it moves about 3/16":
And it is the older version with the externally serviceable drag, with the 3 thick washers.
Title: Re: Senator Special 114H - spool tension
Post by: elcarlstono on September 25, 2024, 06:40:11 PM
Well, with the bearing tightned all the way down I can remove all but what I would consider "acceptable" play.  Just didn't expect to have to turn it so much with pliers.
Title: Re: Senator Special 113H - spool tension
Post by: oldmanjoe on September 25, 2024, 09:01:33 PM
       Looking at your picture , you have a washer on top of the bearing .
   The washer / shims go under the bearing , that moves the bearing further out of the cup and centers the spool with adjustably .
  (https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_24_01_22_6_34_19_362381911.jpeg)

(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/17471_24_01_22_6_34_09_362361652.jpeg)
Title: Re: Senator Special 113H - spool tension
Post by: Maxed Out on September 26, 2024, 02:39:05 AM
It does appear to look like the race for your bearing is down too far in the cup, as Joe already mentioned. Here's what it should look like
Title: Re: Senator Special 113H - spool tension
Post by: MarkT on September 26, 2024, 04:14:27 AM
I've removed that retainer from the bearing and put a spacer behind the bearing to raise it up plus removing the seal on the bearing that faces the spool. Helped center the spool and freespool better!
Title: Re: Senator Special 113H - spool tension
Post by: Gfish on September 26, 2024, 03:15:40 PM
Joe, I think that washer that Ted pictured and Mark mentioned is that jagged-edged retainer that shouldn't affect the spool shaft. IMO, Penn's use of ball-bearings in the Senators is not designed well for longevity. Maybe that's why they aren't in stock Mystic Penn Parts.

The spring in your LB 65 sounds interesting elcarlstono. Picture?
Title: Re: Senator Special 113H - spool tension
Post by: elcarlstono on September 26, 2024, 03:22:17 PM
Quote from: Gfish on September 26, 2024, 03:15:40 PMThe spring in your LB 65 sounds interesting elcarlstono. Picture?

It's in the schematic. Part #41. Apparently the old senators had a similar setup. 
https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/65.pdf
Title: Re: Senator Special 113H - spool tension
Post by: Gfish on September 26, 2024, 03:41:39 PM
Ok, thanks. That's a bushing-bearing. The LB's all have them. I think ALL the Senators should be that way, too. The bushings are easily removable on BOTH side-plates from the outside. Check-out #26