I've recently been doing research about Mercury in our fish. Here a few interesting facts about what I've found
Selenium is an element that is essential for many functions in our bodies.
Specifically selenium has been scientifically identified:
To foster growth and development
It's a powerful anti oxidant with cancer prevention properties
As essential for normal thyroid hormone and immune functioning
Recent studies show selenium especially important for brain, heart, and immune system health
Compromised selenium dependant metabolic processes have been linked to congenital muscular dystrophy, autism, Alzheimer's disease, down syndrome, diabetes, liver diseases and other conditions of oxidative stress or inflammation, such as rhoumatoid arthritis, pancreatitis, asthma, and even obesity.
Ocean fish, primarily tuna, are among the richest sources of nutritional selenium in our diet.
THE SELENIUM MERCURY CONNECTION...
As it turns out, there is a very high affinity between Mercury and Selenium. Whenever they exist together, they chemically bind, and neither the Mercury nor selenium are then bio-available. The actual process is that selenium acts as an antidote and counteracts any Mercury in the food. As long as the selenium content is equal or greater to the Mercury content.
Selenium is the key to understanding Mercury exposure risks. Scientists discovered that if a body has sufficient selenium to maintain proper function, the risks from Mercury are mitigated.
As oceans are rich in selenium, most ocean fish contain more moles of selenium than that of mercury, and therefore the consumption of such fish provide a natural protection against Mercury toxicity, by virtue of their high Selenium content.
The following graph from NOAA shows relative relationship between selenium and Mercury in various species.
Eating ocean fish with high Selenium will also provide additional protection against other organic metal consumption exposure
Damn, we are going to have to cut back on eating whale.... ;0)
Good info.
Volcanic soil is void of selenium and we had to give our sheep selenium salt and the lambs selenium injections.
Cool and relevant. Sounds like selenium can be a limiting nutrient.
Darn, gonna have to stop eating Pilot Whales.
I like to eat King and Spanish mackerel but many say I should not because high level of mercury ,how about level of selenium on these fish ?
Great thread Ted.
You can take a selenium supplement!
This is an interesting topic! It would be great if you posted your sources.
I did a bit of quick digging, and as far as I can tell, the jury is still out. The FDA is still sticking to the original guidelines based solely on mercury content, and while there is an argument that this is simplistic, there is also an argument that using the the selenium to mercury ratio is also not sufficient:
Some recent papers now suggest that if the Se:Hg molar ratio exceeds 1:1, the fish is safe and the mercury concentration can be ignored. Such papers suggested that the molar ratio rather than the Hg concentration, should be emphasized in fish advisories. This paper examines some of the limitations of current understanding of the Se:Hg molar ratio in guiding fish consumption advice, Se is certainly an important part of the Hg toxicity story, but it is not the whole story. We examine how Hg toxicity relates also to thiol binding. We suggest that a 1:1 molar ratio cannot be relied on because not all of the Se in fish or in the fish-eater is available to interact with Hg. Moreover, in some fish Se levels are sufficiently high to warrant concern about Se toxicity.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8026698/pdf/nihms-1671970.pdf (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8026698/pdf/nihms-1671970.pdf)
The paper is pretty interesting, and well worth a read. It is the only one that I read all the way through, so I am not taking sides, just noting (as this paper does) that this is not settled science at this point.
As laymen, it can be a bit tricky for us to get a good view of the entire debate, and easy to get influenced a bit by confirmation bias.
For me, it makes sense to continue to avoid eating a lot of fish with high mercury content for now. There are a lot of tasty low mercury choices where I live and fish.
-J
I have been taking fish oil for my cholesterol 2-1000mg/day per Doctor orders,sometimes they are hard to swallow though.I just read about Antarctic Krill oil,it's a smaller pill & supposedly better?
The article was authored by scientists in British Columbia Canada, and was focused on the northwest coast albacore, that are 2-4 year old fish and have very low amounts of mercury, compared to 5-8 year old albacore that represent most of the tuna found in commercially canned albacore, like starkist
Merinos seafood in Westport Wa, sells locally harvested canned albacore, and they claim it's ok for pregnant women to eat it 7 days a week
So regular whale is okay?
Interesting that the selenium is so high in skipjack tuna and flat fish i.e. sole, halibut, and flounder are also top choices.
Quote from: jurelometer on January 03, 2025, 08:00:42 AMThis is an interesting topic! It would be great if you posted your sources.
I did a bit of quick digging, and as far as I can tell, the jury is still out. The FDA is still sticking to the original guidelines based solely on mercury content, and while there is an argument that this is simplistic, there is also an argument that using the the selenium to mercury ratio is also not sufficient:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8026698/pdf/nihms-1671970.pdf (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8026698/pdf/nihms-1671970.pdf)
The paper is pretty interesting, and well worth a read. It is the only one that I read all the way through, so I am not taking sides, just noting (as this paper does) that this is not settled science at this point.
As laymen, it can be a bit tricky for us to get a good view of the entire debate, and easy to get influenced a bit by confirmation bias.
For me, it makes sense to continue to avoid eating a lot of fish with high mercury content for now. There are a lot of tasty low mercury choices where I live and fish.
-J
This is the reality of almost everything. We are total and complete idiots, know almost nothing, and are dangerously confident that we know far more than we do.
I am going to eat fish because I enjoy it. If mercury poisoning is your primary cause of death, you were either genetically very lucky or lived a very unfulfilling life.
No one in assisted living facilities curses all the mercury laden fish they ate, they curse the fact that they didn't enjoy as much fish.
The Man
Ouuuu! I found a spelling error in the Abstract; there was spelled "thar". A Cardinal sin in a scientific paper. "That 'thar' word ain't "thar"!
Maybe err on the side of caution; eat less of of the larger/older versions of certain species. So many possible variables as to how and why Hg might affect people...
Quote from: Rocket Dog on January 03, 2025, 05:39:27 PMSo regular whale is okay?
Interesting that the selenium is so high in skipjack tuna and flat fish i.e. sole, halibut, and flounder are also top choices.
Yeah, bottom dwellers vs a pelagic...
I am pregnant with seafood.... ;D
Quote from: Gfish on January 03, 2025, 06:04:46 PMOuuuu! I found a spelling error in the Abstract; there was spelled "thar". A Cardinal sin in a scientific paper. "That 'thar' word ain't "thar"!
Maybe err on the side of caution; eat less of of the larger/older versions of certain species. So many possible variables as to how and why Hg might affect people...
Thar she blows ? :cf
Quote from: jgp12000 on January 03, 2025, 02:14:21 PMI have been taking fish oil for my cholesterol 2-1000mg/day per Doctor orders,sometimes they are hard to swallow though.I just read about Antarctic Krill oil,it's a smaller pill & supposedly better?
I was recommended the same dosage.Tried it for a few days and had to quit because it gave me such a stomach ache. Switched over to 2400 mg Flax Seed oil and all is fine, including cholesterol. I eat salmon & tuna every now and then anyway, and interestingly enough, every time I do I end up with a stomach ache. Not a dehabilitating one, just a medium nauseous feeling.
On a different note, with regards to fresh water fish chemical contamination levels, it's been known for years that you are way better off eating the younger examples and those that don't spend most of their time resting on or hugging the bottom.
Quote from: Gfish on January 03, 2025, 06:04:46 PMOuuuu! I found a spelling error in the Abstract; there was spelled "thar". A Cardinal sin in a scientific paper. "That 'thar' word ain't "thar"!
Maybe err on the side of caution; eat less of of the larger/older versions of certain species. So many possible variables as to how and why Hg might affect people...
Good catch! To be fair, I posted the author's submission and not the final published paper, which I could not find outside of the paywall. Proofreading seems to be turning into a lost art in the era of automated spell-checking.
And yeah, the actual official advice is pretty well aligned with common sense: To be safe, don't eat lots of fish high in mercury - especially if you are young or pregnant, and there is enough of selenium in the average diet that the majority of us don't need to go out of our way to include more. And too much selenium is no bueno either.
There are plenty of cases of mercury screwing up people's health. Probably not as much an issue for the average person eating a reasonable amount fish from a variety of sources, but I wouldn't want to be the guy trying to eat my way through 250 lbs of fillets from a single mako shark catch.
-J
I don't care how much selenium you eat, you probably shouldn't start making hats! ;D
The Man
I remember that there was a thermometer factory close to my neighborhood. We would get thermometers out of the dumpster and play with the mercury. I'm still alive and maybe I have mercury in my system from playing with the stuff, but there is nothing I can do about it. It sure was fun stuff to play with. Dominick
... and then there's micro-plastics...
:(
Quote from: Dominick on January 03, 2025, 11:16:51 PMI remember that there was a thermometer factory close to my neighborhood. We would get thermometers out of the dumpster and play with the mercury. I'm still alive and maybe I have mercury in my system from playing with the stuff, but there is nothing I can do about it. It sure was fun stuff to play with. Dominick
The stuff in fish is methyl mercury. It can be absorbed by ingestion. The stuff that they used to put in thermometers is elemental mercury.
From what I read, the main risk for elemental mercury is via vaporization, which will occur at room temperature. Handling some outdoors is probably not as bad as losing a drop or two indoors and having it steadily vaporize over the next several months or longer. I was reading that they don't even bother to treat a person who accidentally ingested a small amount of elemental mercury, assuming that it will not get absorbed and would eventually be passed. But they do care about cleaning up even very small amounts of spilled elemental mercury.
This is something that poison control folk must have to deal with, so I bet that Alan knows the exact answer.
-J
Quote from: Dominick on January 03, 2025, 11:16:51 PMI remember that there was a thermometer factory close to my neighborhood. We would get thermometers out of the dumpster and play with the mercury. I'm still alive and maybe I have mercury in my system from playing with the stuff, but there is nothing I can do about it. It sure was fun stuff to play with. Dominick
I played with mercury and nitric acid prospecting. I still have a 20# vial of it in one of my drawers. The fumes are toxic when recovering gold from mercury and when desolving aluminum foil in the acid/mercury solution to recover the mercury.
Quote from: nelz on January 03, 2025, 11:47:33 PM... and then there's micro-plastics...
:(
Take PlastiClenze supplements. It rids the body of micro and nano plastics. Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on January 04, 2025, 12:57:15 AMTake PlastiClenze supplements. It rids the body of micro and nano plastics. Dominick
Very interesting! I never heard of the stuff. In the documentaries I've seen about microplastic pollution, no such thing was ever mentioned (that there are supplements). Gonna do some research.
Do you take it yourself?
I just took a look at the Plasticlenze website. No references to any external articles on the product, no description of what the product is or how it works, no names for officers - I did find a link to a LinkedIn page for the founder, a "Dr Ben" (No last name). The address is a UPS store mailbox in San Mateo, CA.
Found the ingredients on a photo of the label : Citrus pectin and psyllium are common ingredients for fiber supplements. That's it, except for some activated charcoal that is normally used for binding to some types of chemicals to treat poisoning in Emergency Rooms. Activated charcoal is a popular ingredient in supplement products, although the efficacy is dubious. The problem with activated charcoal is that it also binds with good stuff like vitamin C, or maybe some of the medicines you are also taking.
Next stop was a Google scholar search with "pectin" and "microplastic" for keywords, and up popped a very recent paper on the potential for dietary fiber to minimize the absorption of microplastics in the gut. Activated charcoal was not mentioned in this paper:
https://iadns.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/fft2.437 (https://iadns.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/fft2.437)
I have read that most of us are better off getting our dietary fiber the old fashioned way - eat lots of fruits, vegetables and legumes, as we also get all the nutrients instead of just the fiber. Plus $52 buys a lot of fruits and vegetables. But many of us don't get enough fiber in our diet, so a doctor might recommend a fiber supplement, but I would wager probably not one with activated charcoal.
And if I was interested in using a supplement, I would make sure that the ingredient purity and strength were properly verified, and then check with my doctor for efficacy and any contra-indications for any current conditions or medications. I would especially ask about the activated charcoal.
Hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings,
-J
i appreciate that folk here tolerate me scratching my itch on scientific accuracy without too much blowback. Can't think of many other web communities where this would be possible.
Getting back on topic, I was thinking about the comments on mercury content based on species, size, and the variation from one fish to the next. I wouldn't want to be the guy eating my way through 250 lbs of fillets from a single mako shark or swordfish. This type of risk is probably much higher in our community.
-J
I took a gander at the Plasticlenze web page right away yesterday and came to the quick conclusion that the stuff may soon be an Infomercial. 😀 Couldn't find any research provenance. 🥴
After reading Dave's sleuthing report I think I'll just stick with my nightly glass of sugar free Metamucil. 😉 😁
Like most things in life moderation is key
Quote from: jurelometer on January 04, 2025, 06:38:15 AMHope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings
I for one thank you, you saved me alot of footwork! (Well,
cyber-footwork that is ;D )
Alot of "supplements" are just shy of being nuttin' but "snake oil".
On another note, I do know that real doctors prescribe a real remedy for mercury poisoning.
Quote from: nelz on January 04, 2025, 11:45:27 PMQuote from: jurelometer on January 04, 2025, 06:38:15 AMHope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings
I for one thank you
Waaaaahhhh you hwert my feewings.... NOT!
Keep providing info.
It seems that the answer to most of the issues the we are creating for ourselves is eat fiber.
Imagine that, a feature that was integral to hominin survival back when we ate things that would turn the stomach of a billy goat still works to detoxify us today.
Have you seen the new boss, same as the old boss.
The Man
Keep on going, Pfessor Dave.