Ok, so I have fully drunk the Alan Tani Kool-Aid (probably spiked with tequila) but after watching him test rods to determine maximum drag for a rod I built my own test rig.
With the rod supported at a 45* angle, a heavy line (80# dacron in my case) is secured at the top hood of the reel seat and ran through the guides. Then pulling the line straight down, against a drag scale until the tip is halfway between the arch of the rod and the rod butt. The scale is read and using the 1/3rd rule I have the optimum drag for that rod. So a rod that pulls to 10# is considered a 30# rod. So I can use 30# line with 10# maximun drag and use the rod to the full potential.
When building my test rig, a piece of PVC is bolted to the board and another bolt (well padded) was placed 28" above the bolt securing the PVC pipe. The board is then secured to my work bench at a 45* angle. I used 28" because most of my rail rods has the fore grip in the area I would put on the boat rail. While not perfect, I will not be testing hundreds of rods, just what I have (shut up Brewcrafter ::) )
I wholly recommend using a throw away rod while building the test rig, accidents happen.
I consider this a step in building a balanced rig, meaning the rod, line, and reel are in alignment regarding reel drag, rod flex, and line weight. Essential as testing your drag with a drag scale before you hit the water. Plus with this acid test you will find out IN THE SHOP AND NOT ON THE BOAT if your rod can handle the drag pressure.
Take this as you will, maybe have a glass of Alan's Kool Aid :d Bill
I am looking at the set up , you have 10 pounds on the scale in that configuration ?
If that is a 30 pound stick the guide train is weak by 2 guides . with the scale set up the way you have it ,I believe you have more than 10 pounds of pull . Do you have 10 pound weights like a dumbbell or lifting weights to hang from the stick ?
Nice job Bill! Another fun way to play with our gear
Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 30, 2025, 02:31:49 AMI am looking at the set up , you have 10 pounds on the scale in that configuration ?
If that is a 30 pound stick the guide train is weak by 2 guides . with the scale set up the way you have it ,I believe you have more than 10 pounds of pull . Do you have 10 pound weights like a dumbbell or lifting weights to hang from the stick ?
Joe, I took that into consideration, the first turn on the right side is the only turn in the equation. I relaxed that turn to ensure I got a somewhat accurate drag measurement. Bill
NICE. I would move the top contact point off of the blank and on to the hapalon. And pull straight down. Building one is on my to do listt.
The way I see it , you have a block and tackle effect "two part line " around the scale .
You may have as much as 18-20 pounds of pull /load on the stick . By the pictures , I am going to guess that the rod tip is about 28-30 inches from the floor . Hang 10 pound on the line and I think you will see more distance from rod tip to floor .
Quote from: Keta on March 30, 2025, 03:37:16 AMNICE. I would move the top contact point off of the blank and on to the hapalon. And pull straight down. Building one is on my to do listt.
this is my test rod. I did repeat my test a couple times and got the same results.
Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 30, 2025, 03:39:09 AMThe way I see it , you have a block and tackle effect "two part line " around the scale .
You may have as much as 18-20 pounds of pull /load on the stick . By the pictures , I am going to guess that the rod tip is about 28-30 inches from the floor . Hang 10 pound on the line and I think you will see more distance from rod tip to floor .
My test results were within the stated line weight from the manufacturer so Im fairly confident the results are FAIRLY accurate. Now that my rig is secure enough to not fail and damage more expensive rods, I will continue testing. Hate to destroy a high dollar rod during testing the faze of the testing rig. More testing to come. Bill
Nice job Bill but to get an accurate reading the scale needs to be straight down off the tip. That redirect creates a mechanical advantage so it's pulling more than 10lbs
Might try a 5 gal bucket filled with some water with the scale between the bucket and the rod tip. Just add water to get the desired weight
Quote from: Swami805 on March 30, 2025, 05:45:58 AMNice job Bill but to get an accurate reading the scale needs to be straight down off the tip. That redirect creates a mechanical advantage so it's pulling more than 10lbs
Might try a 5 gal bucket filled with some water with the scale between the bucket and the rod tip. Just add water to get the desired weight
Water is about 8 pounds per gallon . 16 Oz of water is 1 pound .
Would this work?
Quote from: Bill B on March 30, 2025, 04:25:21 PMWould this work?
No . I will show you with pictures . First set is with a spring scale . dead weight is 13 pounds . 3 th picture is rope over the hook and the tag end is anchored with my foot , now the gage is reading 21 pounds .
Another set with electronic digital scale readings , same tests 13.74 went to 21.74 .
You want deadlift pulls for your tests .
Gotcha! Thank you
Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 30, 2025, 03:39:09 AMThe way I see it , you have a block and tackle effect "two part line " around the scale .
You may have as much as 18-20 pounds of pull /load on the stick . By the pictures , I am going to guess that the rod tip is about 28-30 inches from the floor . Hang 10 pound on the line and I think you will see more distance from rod tip to floor .
I think so as well, some leverages at play here at a guess the actual pull will be double the reading?
Fair warning There is a term called " Common Cents " for measuring fishing rods .
https://anglersresource.net/rod-ratings/
This one is more in line of what you are trying to do.
https://www.lamiglas.com/blogs/lamiglas-fishing-rod-blog/line-rating-power-lure-rating-explained?srsltid=AfmBOoq5nlvZyHTboh9_QmUyjMALqW78iAuAZ-7mvi5pmuxRhegY5d-R
Quote from: Cor on March 30, 2025, 07:13:28 PMQuote from: oldmanjoe on March 30, 2025, 03:39:09 AMThe way I see it , you have a block and tackle effect "two part line " around the scale .
You may have as much as 18-20 pounds of pull /load on the stick . By the pictures , I am going to guess that the rod tip is about 28-30 inches from the floor . Hang 10 pound on the line and I think you will see more distance from rod tip to floor .
I think so as well, some leverages at play here at a guess the actual pull will be double the reading?
well yes and no , change the tag end pull direction and the reading change . This is strange .
First two pictures tag end straight down with a reading of 22.04 pounds .
Third picture is a 90 degree tag end hold with 16.82 pounds . Start lowering the the angle and the scale increases
So maybe the angle is changing the direction of the pull, lessoning the dead drop weight.
Prepare to have your heart broken on several of your rods, LOL. I went and saw Alan a couple months ago to get my reels filled for an upcoming trip and he asked me to bring all my rods. I was not sure why, but I followed orders.
I watched him set up all my rods on his fixture and quickly realized those numbers printed on the rods mean jack ####, in reality. As an example, I have a Calstar Grafighter 700XH, that shows 40-100 on the rod. This does seem like a very wide range, but I would expect the max drag rating to at least fall inside the two numbers listed, and preferably, clsoer to the higher number. It barely hit drag pressure that equates to max of 40lbs.
Alan's system makes perfect sense to my engineering brain, but I quickly learned that my "full quiver" of LR rods that I thought spanned 20-80 line class, turned out to be 15-45lbs, with a ton of 30-40 lb rods.
Now, I know this does not mean I can't fish those rods heavier (I have plenty of times in the past), but it does reveal an inconcsistency of any standards in the line class rating for rod manufacturers. I have main-lined the koolaid. The problem is...you can't drag this setup to tackle stores and confirm what you are buying, so until we get some kind of database going, we are all still guessing when we choose a rod.
My rusty memory creaked into action and I remember being confused over the 'parallelogram of forces' in physics at school. Never quite worked it all out but it is why the apparent load on the scales varies when the angle of pull changes.
Indeed, dead lift is what you need. Bucket of water, get the 'fighting curve' you want from your rod and then weigh the bucket and water. Or load the bucket with lead weights.
Yup, rods generally don't pull as much as we are sometimes led to believe by the numbers put on them by manufacturers.
I tested a few of my rods and went as far as bending them to the 'it'll go bust' point. Maximum pull was well below what I expected in almost every case. (But still more than I could manage in real life fishing when on a rocking boat trying to maintain balance and fight a good fish, etc.)
Great thread and I love the set-up.
Thank Bill, very interesting post, you started here, good value to all of us, cheers Don.