I have some Talica 8 II reels in the shop. 2 spd. Has a double dog set up for the anti reverse. One is a normal friction type dog seen on many reels. The other is a spring wire type dog that is actuated by movement of the pinion gear backwards and forwards. Under the bolt that holds that dog in place is a washer. That washer is supposed to sit in a very tiny lip up on the bolt on the underside of the dog as it protrudes through. If you don't get that washer up on that lip it inhibits the movement of the dog which won't permit it to actuate. It binds it up. I can see I'm not going to be able to line that up no matter how hard I try unless there is some trick to it.
Wondering if anyone else has had this problem. If I remove the washer the dog works fine but there is a very small gap left and you can see slight movement of the dog up and down because of this. Perhaps I can just leave that washer out? I suppose I could just hone the washer out to a larger inside diameter so that it is easier to fit the bolt through it without binding. Just wondering if anyone else might have a good fix for this.
Thanks, Steve
steve, i worked on these before but did not have a problem. would a photo or two be possible?
Steve maybe the washers got reversed. They are different sizes. Pawl pins are different sizes too. Check the schematic. Shimano 2 speeds can be challenging.
Try putting some grease on the washer to hold it in place.
Quote from: alantani on April 02, 2025, 04:48:00 AMsteve, i worked on these before but did not have a problem. would a photo or two be possible?
Will do. Thanks
Quote from: alantani on April 02, 2025, 04:48:00 AMsteve, i worked on these before but did not have a problem. would a photo or two be possible?
Thanks you can see where I malformed the washer by catching the edge on the lip of the bolt that protrudes a small ways out from the dog underneath it. Misaligned when I tightened the bolt down.
Quote from: MACflyer on April 02, 2025, 12:57:17 PMSteve maybe the washers got reversed. They are different sizes. Pawl pins are different sizes too. Check the schematic. Shimano 2 speeds can be challenging.
Good point but I did not have the two pawl off at the same time. I may have warped the washer so that it sticks up and contacts the dog and prevents it from moving.
Thanks, Steve
Quote from: Keta on April 02, 2025, 02:27:33 PMTry putting some grease on the washer to hold it in place.
Tried that but the lip which the washer fits over is a tight fit. If I didn't warp the washer to badly I'm thinking I may be able to hone it out so it can allow the bolt to go through.
The schematic shows the washers on top of the dogs unless I'm looking at it backwards?
Thanks. Wish it was that way. On the schematic on the Shimano website the parts go in order
Key 1499 (bolt) (on top) - Key 1498 dog - Key 1497 washer. I honed a washer out and I got it to work, only took me about half and hour of work. LOL
Thanks, Steve
Glad you got it fixed Steve.
Quote from: MACflyer on April 02, 2025, 11:27:59 PMGlad you got it fixed Steve.
Well got one fixed I have 5 more in the shop to do and I don't want to remove that dog on another one until I find a less labor intensive way to fix it. I looked at a Talica 12 and they have two friction type dogs so easy to work on.
Quote from: alantani on April 02, 2025, 04:48:00 AMsteve, i worked on these before but did not have a problem. would a photo or two be possible?
Alan, I spoke with a Shimano tech about my problem. He was not able to help me. We looked at the schematic and I believe he understood the problem but had not run into many size 8 two speeds and couldn't remember working on one and had none in the shop. We did figure out the washer is probably just to insulate two dissimilar metals so as it arrest any corrosion problems. We spoke about just not putting the washer back in and he did not see a problem with that as long as I got the bolt back in tight, the lip of the bolt will allow it to snug down and still allow the dog to work properly. But the dog will have some slight lateral movement due to the gap created with no washer in place.
I tried this and it seems to work fine so I may try this. The only other way we saw to align the washer was to hone it out. Which I did on one reel but even then it took a very long time to get it aligned. I may end up really honing a lot out of that washer on the next one I do and see if that will work. It should still help separate the metal and provide a snug fit if I can get it right and if I ruin the washer they are cheap to replace.
In any case no matter which way I go I'll post the results here.
Thanks, Steve
i'd leave the washer out. metal to metal should not be a problem if properly lubed.
Thanks Alan, I think that's what I'm going to do. I tried honing another washer out and ended up spending a lot of time trying to position it, and I failed. Just not a good design. I'm going to put Yamaha grease all over the dog, this should help with any vibration resulting from the gap between the bolt and the dog.
Shimano put that washer in there for a reason, respectfully I'd be moderately unimpressed if someone left a part out of my reel because they couldn't figure out how to put it back in.
Are you placing the washer on the sideplate and then trying to bolt through it?
Quote from: alantani on April 03, 2025, 06:42:03 PMi'd leave the washer out. metal to metal should not be a problem if properly lubed.
I ended up not taking the dogs off of either side as the other side also had a washer like the first did. I was able to completely disassemble the remaining reels other than the two dogs and service them completely. I just injected a little Corrosion X under each and cleaned around them. This is how I will do this model in the future unless there is a real need to take them off, then I'll probably just omit the washers upon reassembly.
Quote from: boon on April 11, 2025, 03:21:20 AMShimano put that washer in there for a reason, respectfully I'd be moderately unimpressed if someone left a part out of my reel because they couldn't figure out how to put it back in.
Are you placing the washer on the sideplate and then trying to bolt through it?
Yes, that is what I was trying to do. The lip on the bolt that protrudes down through the bottom of the dog is to small to grip the washer and permit putting it on already slipped over it. Even a Shimano tech could not help me with this one. I was directed to him by Shimano. I was able to get one of the washers on by honing out slightly the diameter of the washer but it took over half and hour to put it back on even when I did that. The Shimano guy's feedback was that he thought it was there to keep dissimilar metals from contact.
Quote from: retiredandfishing on April 24, 2025, 02:29:50 PMQuote from: boon on April 11, 2025, 03:21:20 AMShimano put that washer in there for a reason, respectfully I'd be moderately unimpressed if someone left a part out of my reel because they couldn't figure out how to put it back in.
Are you placing the washer on the sideplate and then trying to bolt through it?
Yes, that is what I was trying to do. The lip on the bolt that protrudes down through the bottom of the dog is to small to grip the washer and permit putting it on already slipped over it. Even a Shimano tech could not help me with this one. I was directed to him by Shimano. I was able to get one of the washers on by honing out slightly the diameter of the washer but it took over half and hour to put it back on even when I did that. The Shimano guy's feedback was that he thought it was there to keep dissimilar metals from contact.
You will have a terrible time if you're trying to put it on the sideplate and bolt through it, the slightest misalignment will result in what you've seen with the washer getting pinched, and there's nothing on the sideplate to align it. It's a hideous job but you really have to assemble the bolt, dog, and washer, making sure the washer is properly seated on that tiny shoulder of the bolt, then run that into the sideplate as one. For what it's worth, the shoulder is actually slightly longer than the total thickness of the dog and the washer, as long as everything is perfectly square.
A dab of grease can help keep everything slightly tacked together, but then it can inhibit the action of the dog if it's too tacky. Doing it overhead so you're screwing the bolt upwards into the sideplate can help keep everything stacked correctly, but it is still a very fiddly job.