A guy I know has a 300 and a 400 out of action for excessive salt accumulation in the reel guts. Both reels have hardened salt deposits inside that are literally millimeters thick. This happened to new reels after only 8 months of fishing a couple of times a week. He fishes exclusively on boats. When the boat is running, his rod is almost always in a gunwale holder, and the reels caught plenty of spray, but they got a fresh water rinse after each trip. He does not have them serviced until they fail.
The Tranx is partially sealed, and I wonder if the seals trap water that does find its way in, but I don't know about his experience with other reels, so maybe the reverse Midas touch is at work. Any similar experiences, with the Tranx or other reels? Other thoughts on how this could happen, short of repeated dunks in seawater? Thanks.
--Mike
I've had the same problem and the same thoughts. There is no way for the reel to be completely sealed because there has to be clearance between the frame and spool. Even without being splashed, water can get in when it is flung off the spinning spool.
I once drilled drain holes in a Curado head plate at the low point where water could accumulate when the reel is in the storage position. Blasting it with a hose will force water in and sort of flush the salt out.
Quote from: oc1 on May 03, 2025, 08:11:31 PMI've had the same problem and the same thoughts. There is no way for the reel to be completely sealed because there has to be clearance between the frame and spool. Even without being splashed, water can get in when it is flung off the spinning spool.
I once drilled drain holes in a Curado head plate at the low point where water could accumulate when the reel is in the storage position. Blasting it with a hose will force water in and sort of flush the salt out.
Agree.
I think that the Tranx has a drain on the bottom of the gear box.
For non-sealed reels, I prefer to soak, drain, repeat in a bucket of warm fresh water. Some folk will do a low pressure flush. Follow with a good drain and dry without any reel cover. Fresh water is the best solvent for salt. Some folk are afraid of getting a saltwater reel wet on the inside, fearing that it will spread any salt around. Flushing sort of splits the difference.
The OP's friend might be able to do a freshwater flush on his Tranx by putting the reel in freespool and flowing the water into the gap in the frame next to the thumb bar. This doesn't eliminate the need for regular full maintenance, but should help for reducing salt build up in the interim. I believe that a soak cycle is better for most reels, but this makes many folk nervous.
-J
Wow, that's a lot of salt accumulation. I would think if levelwind spray or spool spray was causing the issue, we would hear more complaints from Tranx users. Like mentioned earlier, a clogged drain hole and riding in the gunnels might explain the build up. Hoping others chime in on freshwater rinse vs freshwater dunk. I've dunked a few times when I knew the reel took a lot of hard spray or went under, but mostly use a light pressure rinse. Never seen an accumulation like that...
For the prices of these reels it would be a good idea to pull the covers everytime you fish. Especially when the prices skyrocket.
Good real world example of: even for NIB reels, do a solid preservice, and a wipe with the the proverbial greasy toothbrush to all the internals. Sealed/partially sealed in my world are marketing buzzwords - on the boat saltwater will find its way everywhere. As Jurelometer pointed out, freshwater is "the universal solvent". I am fortunate here in the Inland Empire with plenty of super low humidity (and blazing hot) days to give my reels a solid extended low pressure rinse and then allow to fully dry before putting away. And they usually get a tear down level service every other year or so. - john
There's no way the guy is rinsing his reels properly. I have a couple of Grapplers (basically the same reel) that get fished fairly regularly and they are immaculate inside.
When Shimano came out with those reals the big selling point was protective seals to prevent water intrusion. What I found is it holds water in. It even gets past the 'O' ring under the driveshaft,,the worst is the one on top of the clutch bearing.
Quote from: Lunker Larry on May 04, 2025, 02:57:16 PMWhen Shimano came out with those reals the big selling point was protective seals to prevent water intrusion. What I found is it holds water in. It even gets past the 'O' ring under the driveshaft,,the worst is the one on top of the clutch bearing.
Bingo! Just what I was looking for, confirmation that the problem is inherent in the reel. Of course, if we are having a contest, my friend's reel puts yours to shame, or is it the other way around?
Thanks to all for an informed discussion.
--Mike
Quote from: boon on May 04, 2025, 09:53:00 AMThere's no way the guy is rinsing his reels properly. I have a couple of Grapplers (basically the same reel) that get fished fairly regularly and they are immaculate inside.
There is a big chunk of the saltwater fishing crowd (including many members here) that are dead set against getting the inside of a reel wet, even if it is a freshwater flush. It seems especially prevalent in the SoCal crowd. I remember watching a group at Cedros using water in a spray mister bottle to "cleanse" just the outside of their reels, rapidly followed by a microfiber towel. I was surprised that they didn't break out the candles, quartz crystals and incense. ::)
I know that you know this, but for folks that are not aware:
These most commonly corroding parts are made from grades of stainless(303, 403, 440c, etc.) that are highly resistant to freshwater corrosion, but only mildly resistant to saltwater (or other chlorides) corrosion.
It takes both a chloride and water to cause this corrosion. Once saltwater gets inside, the water may evaporate, but there will also be moisture in the air that will keep the salt wet enough that corrosion will continue, just at a slower pace.
I don't want to dive into the chemistry too much, but if several molecules of water come into contact with a single molecule of salt, they will pull the sodium and chloride ions apart by bonding to them, breaking up a salt crystal molecule by molecule.
An overview of the basic chemistry:
https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/water-molecules-and-their-interaction-salt (https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/water-molecules-and-their-interaction-salt)
Once the water with the dissolved salt leaves the reel, you have less salt than before. Do it long enough, and there will be little to no salt left, and the remaining water evaporates with little residue.
To get the most contact with multiple unbound water molecules per salt molecule, you need moving water molecules. Warm water, time, are especially moving water are your friends here.
The downside to this method is if there are sections of the reel that do not drain well, there is the potential to get water with a smaller amount of diluted salt into places that did not have it before. I believe that the risk vs reward ratio is titled very much toward the reward side for most reels.
My personal experience with full soaking of the similar but unsealed Daiwa Lexa and Okuma Komodo reels (I don't own a Tranx) has been very positive in a very demanding environment. My reels often finish the day with a coating of dried salt, but I have gone a year or more without opening the reels up, and the innards stay corrosion free.
Once a reel design attempts to seal up a reel, the equation can change. Seals will keep most of the water out, but also keeps in most of any water in that gets past the seal. Flushing, and especially soaking runs the risk of introducing slightly salty water inside the "sealed" areas.
Shimano's attempt to partially seal the Tranx is a tricky design to pull off. I could see this approach helping in a case where the reel is used with little spray exposure, but hurting when saltwater does get inside which is now more difficult to flush out of the "protected" areas. Sort of the worst of both options. Which brings us to Larry's point:
Quote from: Lunker Larry on May 04, 2025, 02:57:16 PMWhen Shimano came out with those reals the big selling point was protective seals to prevent water intrusion. What I found is it holds water in. It even gets past the 'O' ring under the driveshaft,,the worst is the one on top of the clutch bearing.
Clutch bearings on handle shafts are always an issue. I hate them.
I wouldn't expect to see this kind of corrosion from freshwater use. But not all freshwater is completely chloride free, and some folk rinse their gear in heavily chlorinated water, like swimming pools. I assume that most of your customers are freshwater guys, so I am curious here.
-J
No one I know rinses their reels
O-rings don't do a lot to prevent water entry around a moving shaft. Water on the shaft will work its way over to the face of the O-ring As the shaft turns water is pulled under the O-ring. If the O-ring fit tightly enough to prevent any intrusion then you wouldn't be able to turn the handle.
Expensive baitcasters should be preserved even if one might sell their's for next improved(?)model that comes along. People like me are always looking for good buy on a used one. Haven't had to replace any parts yet on my Abu R. T. Beast yet, so not sure about availability, but Shimano's can impossible to get new parts for.
Some have centrifugal cast control side-plates that swing-open and make it easy for the spool to come out, making them easy to flush and dry-out. But the A/R bearing and that stupid sump for the crankshaft inner ball bearing are always gonna be subject to possible long-term moisture exposure.
What to do, other than get used to doing the work of a full and detailed breakdown? How often?
Tranx 500 with salt problem? naah ^-^
this is a tranx 500 I've been working on, still waiting for the replacement parts and tons of bearings that need to be replaced.
Here's an unexpected development that suggests Shimano may be revising the Tranx to address salt intrusion. First, something I omitted when starting this thread is that my friend's reel's failure mode was that it would not come out of free spool, which I attribute to the bridge springs being choked with salt.
I ran into another guy on a boat yesterday who had a similar failure on his Tranx 400. He then sent it to Shimano, expecting to pay for an overhaul, as it was out of warranty. Shimano not only repaired it at no charge, but returned with it another 400, asking him to see how the two compared in standing up to his abuse. I haven't had the opportunity to open the new reel, but expect it to have different seals, if any.
Here is a comparison of the new Tranx 300B versus the old 300A. Shimano did get rid of the handle shaft seal over the clutch bearing, but that will not affect what your buddy experienced (large amount of salt accumulation on the inside when the reel is exposed to salt spray and not flushed with freshwater). Looks like they kept all the rest of the seals:
https://youtu.be/pkRojzUjZZQ?si=w09L0_IQtjj2exdc (https://youtu.be/pkRojzUjZZQ?si=w09L0_IQtjj2exdc)
Don't know if they did the same to the 400.
Some other interesting changes include a different side plate mechanism for the non-handle side, so maybe less accidental detachments. Also a plastic worm with a worm gear that has a spring clutch so that any excessive load on the levelwind will cause the worm to slip instead of wear. And now the casting break can be adjusted without removing the side plate. So it looks like Shimano has been listening and is mostly addressing the main durability and usability issues on the Tranx.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on May 13, 2025, 07:15:59 PMAlso a plastic worm with a worm gear that has a spring clutch so that any excessive load on the levelwind will cause the worm to slip instead of wear.
ABU switched to a plastic idler gear in the tail plate so the levelwind carriage could not break or cut off your finger tip if it was caught.
Quote from: steelfish on May 05, 2025, 05:29:26 PMTranx 500 with salt problem? naah ^-^
this is a tranx 500 I've been working on, still waiting for the replacement parts and tons of bearings that need to be replaced.
I am not the most precise with my cleaning routine, usually just empty the remains in my water bottle over the reel when fishing onshore, and after a boat I do a more thorough job by washing under running water. Have never experienced anything like you are showing here.
Are those salt crystals or grains of sand in the reel?
Quote from: Cor on May 14, 2025, 07:01:12 AMAre those salt crystals or grains of sand in the reel?
Both
grains of sand and salt crystals, I was told the reel showed some problems while using it and the owner took the reel out from the rod and put another reel and left the tranx on a place of the boat where the water(splashed) could reach it, the reel stayed in the same place for months until they though it could be a good idea to send it to me to look for the problem. :o :o ::)
Good video, thanks Dave. Guy's a bit of a wisenheimer, reminds me of someone I know... Some cool new technology on the Tranx.
Don't know about all those—what I would call "pseudo-seals". Worth it? Maybe... or maybe it's better to be able to flush and dry. Then again, there's those tiny moving part—spaces where water can work it's way in.
Quote from: steelfish on May 14, 2025, 04:24:45 PMQuote from: Cor on May 14, 2025, 07:01:12 AMAre those salt crystals or grains of sand in the reel?
Both
grains of sand and salt crystals, I was told the reel showed some problems while using it and the owner took the reel out from the rod and put another reel and left the tranx on a place of the boat where the water(splashed) could reach it, the reel stayed in the same place for months until they though it could be a good idea to send it to me to look for the problem. :o :o ::)
Surely grains of sand are a curse on levelwind reels and such should not be used on beaches, one grain of sand will stop levelwind in its tracks, could damage it?