Hello Fellas !
Just purchased a "new" VISX reel , "new" because when i received it , i noticed that this was a display reel due to having some marks on it. Out of the box i noticed except the small scratches another 2 issues. One of them was the handle not rotating nicely but rather stucking , for this i dropped some penn oil on the joint and it got fixed , this is very suspicious as since when does the grease dry out?
Biggest issue though is that while freespool is great something inside gets banged and its both very audible and causes vibrations to the reel. I understand now why this reel was 20% off... The noise lessens if i rotate the spool backwards and almost disappears if i turn the reels orientation from horizontal to vertical.
I know that the right thing to do is return the reel as a new reel should come in a perfect condition out of the box and not like this but a new one will cost me around 250 more so i am trying to weight my options.
What do you guys think ? Is this something that easily gets fixed?
Here is a video of the issue so you can hear it: https://files.fm/f/dwjnaxn4s8https://files.fm/f/dwjnaxn4s8 (https://files.fm/f/dwjnaxn4s8)
Thank you for your time and knowledge !
Hi Leon, welcome to the forum.
Very easy fix here. That noise you hear is the 7A metal drag washer rattling in the spool. If you look at
schematic you will see the 7A metal drag washer has 4 little ears, take the washer out and dip each ear in a little grease and set it back in. The noise should go away.
https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/16visx.pdf
tony
Quote from: Penn on May 21, 2025, 10:04:10 AMHi Leon, welcome to the forum.
Very easy fix here. That noise you hear is the 7A metal drag washer rattling in the spool. If you look at
schematic you will see the 7A metal drag washer has 4 little ears, take the washer out and dip each ear in a little grease and set it back in. The noise should go away.
https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/16visx.pdf
tony
Thank you Tony !
I will give it go , may will redo the Handle too since it doesnt feel 100% right , do i use Penn precision grease for this too or something else ?
I have Cals grease on hand too.
If you think there's a possibility there's old dry grease in there then a full service is probably a good idea.
Quote from: Leonman44 on May 21, 2025, 10:59:50 AMQuote from: Penn on May 21, 2025, 10:04:10 AMHi Leon, welcome to the forum.
Very easy fix here. That noise you hear is the 7A metal drag washer rattling in the spool. If you look at
schematic you will see the 7A metal drag washer has 4 little ears, take the washer out and dip each ear in a little grease and set it back in. The noise should go away.
https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/16visx.pdf
tony
Thank you Tony !
I will give it go , may will redo the Handle too since it doesnt feel 100% right , do i use Penn precision grease for this too or something else ?
I have Cals grease on hand too.
Cal's is fine for this application.
tony
Quote from: Penn on May 21, 2025, 11:20:52 AMQuote from: Leonman44 on May 21, 2025, 10:59:50 AMQuote from: Penn on May 21, 2025, 10:04:10 AMHi Leon, welcome to the forum.
Very easy fix here. That noise you hear is the 7A metal drag washer rattling in the spool. If you look at
schematic you will see the 7A metal drag washer has 4 little ears, take the washer out and dip each ear in a little grease and set it back in. The noise should go away.
https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/16visx.pdf
tony
Thank you Tony !
I will give it go , may will redo the Handle too since it doesnt feel 100% right , do i use Penn precision grease for this too or something else ?
I have Cals grease on hand too.
Cal's is fine for this application.
tony
Tony is this the factorys Grease or the store regreased the handle ?
https://ibb.co/PzggW4zc (https://ibb.co/PzggW4zc)
Underneath that liquid grease it was a fat layer of dried out grease which was causing the issue , cleaned it with ipa and a microfiber cloth as much as i could:
https://ibb.co/DPkR8GXt (https://ibb.co/DPkR8GXt)
Just put the Cals grease with a brush and now the handle turns perfectly smooth , so smooth that i cant believe it , it was indeed in a bad condition.
For the spool fix i will have to wait for the Penn precision grease to arrive as i dont want to mix the greases and cause any sort of issue.
Also for the drag washers what is the recommended application amount? should they look nearly dry or there must be a thin layer of grease?
Thank you for everything Tony you been very helpful !
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on May 21, 2025, 11:01:04 AMIf you think there's a possibility there's old dry grease in there then a full service is probably a good idea.
You are right about this but i really hope everything inside the reel is completely fine because i cant do a complete tear down , complete tear down , cleaning and regrease by myself. I can do only dedicated stuff little by little.
I hope that it was just the handle as it comes contact with the air easier than the internals of the reel and the reel must have the blue penns grease inside , unsure if it holds better overtime than the handles one.
Hi Leon,
Sorry but our firewall is not allowing me to click your link. If you are able to upload direct to this site I will be able to view. PENN grease is blue. Drag washer's get a thin layer of PENN drag grease which is whiteish/clear color, (Not sellable to the public) but Cal's grease is fine to use as well. A very thin coating is all you need.
tony
Quote from: Penn on May 22, 2025, 10:08:13 AMHi Leon,
Sorry but our firewall is not allowing me to click your link. If you are able to upload direct to this site I will be able to view. PENN grease is blue. Drag washer's get a thin layer of PENN drag grease which is whiteish/clear color, (Not sellable to the public) but Cal's grease is fine to use as well. A very thin coating is all you need.
tony
Thank you for specifying !
Maybe now its visible to the forum :
(https://i.ibb.co/VpTTCDpg/IMG-7951.jpg)
Looks liquid due to the penn oil i dropped before opening it. Underneath is was completely dried out, knob would turn hardly and vibrate from the high friction.
From what i understand for whatever the reason the handle got reworked , not a good sign for a new reel... At least i managed to 100% fix it. Kinda scared for what i am going to find out inside the reel but i hope it was not opened.
If i have the time i am going to open it up later today as just got the penn grease for the 7a ears and in case i have to regrease something else.
So if i want to refresh the drag washers should i apply the Cals grease on top of Penns grease or i must completely clean the Original grease before applying the Cals , if so what would be a proper way of doing this?
It should always be buyer beware when buying a "display model". We grease the handle shaft with PENN blue grease, not oil it. You can apply a light coating of Cal's directly on top, no need to clean first.
tony
Quote from: Penn on May 22, 2025, 10:51:48 AMIt should always be buyer beware when buying a "display model". We grease the handle shaft with PENN blue grease, not oil it. You can apply a light coating of Cal's directly on top, no need to clean first.
tony
Quote from: Penn on May 22, 2025, 10:51:48 AMIt should always be buyer beware when buying a "display model". We grease the handle shaft with PENN blue grease, not oil it. You can apply a light coating of Cal's directly on top, no need to clean first.
tony
I totally agree but in this case i didnt know that i was buying a display reel , ordered it online and there was absolutely no indication of it being a display reel but only a 20% discount , i got surprised upon unboxing !
I will update this topic with pics once i open it up !
Here we go !!!
Before :
IMG_7957.jpg
IMG_7963.jpg
IMG_7960.jpg
IMG_7961.jpg
IMG_7962.jpg
IMG_7966.jpg
IMG_7967.jpg
My observations are that the reel has been opened from the store owner so he knew very well the issue and couldnt manage to fix it , you can see that awful red grease on the clicker that also put on the handle and dried out so bad. Gladly didnt open the drag washers so no much damage was done , just some scratches to the metal housing that could potentialy cause issues overtime if it would come in contact with salt. Also interestingly the grease application to the washers is very light from Penn and looks dry to the eye , the ears of the 7A were greased but not enough to make it stay in place. Penns blue grease looked a bit discolored but still functional and not dried out at all.
So i tried to make things better:
IMG_7973.jpg
IMG_7974.jpg
IMG_7968.jpg
IMG_7971.jpg
IMG_7972.jpg
IMG_7976.jpg
IMG_7969.jpg
IMG_7979.jpg
1) I did apply a protective grease coating to the house , screws and components
2) Applied Cals to the drag washers using the tuthbrush , a much richer application than Penns
3) Applied Cals to the 7A ears , i realised that same grease as drag washers grease must be applied there as this will get squeezed and run into the washers !
4) Oiled the central of the 71 while greased the sides afterwards
5) Refreshed the Penns grease just a quick on the gears etc without a disassemble
6) Installed the harness Lugs because i didnt like the plastic plugs that had marks on them , will come handy too.
Worries:
1) If i turn the handle fast the spool moves as well on Freespool , it did that before opening the reel as well but its not that the drag washers are engaded or something , freespool performance is the best i since but there is some resistance somewhere... Any ideas???
2) The grease of the 7A ears got squeezed for sure and run on the drag washers , unsure if that will reduce the max drag performance from too much grease in there.
Overall i fixed my reel and now i can finally enjoy it !
(https://fv5-6.files.fm/down.php?i=wsu3dwwvpc&view&n=IMG_7979.jpg)
Cant wait to revenge those groupers with that monstrous torque power ! ;D
Job well done.
Any grease more than the drags can hold will be slung off to the sides the first time you get a fish that wants to run. A light coat is best. A tad extra won't kill you.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on May 23, 2025, 10:52:28 AMJob well done.
Any grease more than the drags can hold will be slung off to the sides the first time you get a fish that wants to run. A light coat is best. A tad extra won't kill you.
On a lever drag reel excess grease kills the freespool. Rub the grease in good then wipe all excess off.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on May 23, 2025, 10:52:28 AMJob well done.
Any grease more than the drags can hold will be slung off to the sides the first time you get a fish that wants to run. A light coat is best. A tad extra won't kill you.
That's perfect then ! As a bonus I won't be using max drags , wanted the reel more for the reeling power than the 45lbs max drag but I won't go very light on the drags either , the grouper must not be able to find cover and cut me through the rocks.
Quote from: Keta on May 23, 2025, 02:38:50 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on May 23, 2025, 10:52:28 AMJob well done.
Any grease more than the drags can hold will be slung off to the sides the first time you get a fish that wants to run. A light coat is best. A tad extra won't kill you.
On a lever drag reel excess grease kills the freespool. Rub the grease in good then wipe all excess off.
I see , are you referring for the components that comes in contact with the 71 ? I noticed there that the spools ball bearings had a lot of grease on them so maybe it's from that but I thought leaving it would be better for longevity.
The metal and carbon fiber disks.
Is the cam too straight or I did something wrong ? I am having issues setting up the reel as I want to , I can't get both low and high drags at the same preset , moving the lever drag adds braking force little by little so if I want max drags at max then even at 1 it has massive force. I want to have low drags at 1 but high drags at Max :-\
As i have set it up now I am getting 6 lb at 1 , 17 lb at strike 4 and 22lb at max. That's only the half of the real reels max but I really need a low setting at 1.
Quote from: Keta on May 23, 2025, 08:49:34 PMThe metal and carbon fiber disks.
Nice , will do better job next time I open the reel !
???
So with the lever at FREE, you are unable to dial the drag button clockwise?
How are your bellevilles configured? (), ((, )), or something else?
Seems like that i am getting exactly what i should :
IMG_7988.jpg
According this specs sheet the preconfigured strike is 10lb that its at number 4 and at FULL is 15lb.
So i am getting also 5lb difference from 4 to FULL , thats to little but thats how the cam is for these smaller reels. I was expecting something more like the 20visx that its 10lb difference from 4 to FULL. I dont have a way to grind the cam and fix that so i guess i am stuck with mediocre settings.
Quote from: Porthos on May 25, 2025, 02:26:23 PM???
So with the lever at FREE, you are unable to dial the drag button clockwise?
How are your bellevilles configured? (), ((, )), or something else?
Seems like that everything works as it should but i wont be getting near close to the 45lb max drags and be practical. Best i could achieve up to now is with a little backed off strike position and more clicks on that preset that gives me : 9 lb at 1 , 18 lb at strike and 25 lb at FULL. The minimum drag at position 1 is a bit high but i will see how it goes during action. I wouldnt like to tighten the preset any more as the lever drag already got heavy and moving the lever from strip position is already harder so constantly cranking my bait and letting it drop back to the bottom will make me tired , any more than that and its unusable for that purpose.
Not sure about the bellevilles.
That's...interesting...Alan set his 50VISX at 45lb STRIKE and 60lb FULL. These numbers are significantly higher than Penn's chart.
He's also set up a 16VISX and 30VISX with 50lb FULL.
My "new-to-me" 16VSX is 42lb FULL in ()() bellevilles, and 48lb FULL with (()).
My VISX16 is set 28# at strike and it gets 45# at full.
Quote from: Porthos on May 26, 2025, 05:57:27 PMThat's...interesting...Alan set his 50VISX at 45lb STRIKE and 60lb FULL. These numbers are significantly higher than Penn's chart.
He's also set up a 16VISX and 30VISX with 50lb FULL.
My "new-to-me" 16VSX is 42lb FULL in ()() bellevilles, and 48lb FULL with (()).
Alan was also getting very linear drags out of that VISX 16 : https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,36088.0.html (https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,36088.0.html)
"setting the drag to 40 pounds at full gave me a 30 pound drag setting at the number 1 position. no bueno."
Also said then "out comes the cam. it was ground down to a 3.5 degree angle. here is the result."
So these reels need a cam tuning otherwise you are stuck with very linear drag curve.
Maybe i should open my reel and wipe the drags a bit to increase friction and gain a bit more but still its exactly as the penns sheet report. Doesnt hurt one more try.
To be honest i dont understand the bellevilles topic , could you please explain?
Quote from: Keta on May 26, 2025, 06:27:56 PMMy VISX16 is set 28# at strike and it gets 45# at full.
Weird , did you grind the cam too or it was just like that out of the box?
Quote from: Leonman44 on May 27, 2025, 05:28:24 AMTo be honest i dont understand the bellevilles topic , could you please explain?
Bellevilles are conical hence they have properties of "springs." The way they are oriented and how many control the amount of pressure that can be applied to them.
A () two washers config offers "softer" resistance, so lower pressures to compress them...i.e., lower drag range.
A ()() four washers config is also "soft."
A (()) four washers config is "harder" resistance, so higher pressures to compress them...i.e., higher drag range.
With (()), the stack height will be lower than ()(). so the drag control mechanism may "bottom out" before exerting the "max" pressure possible, so sometimes adding an additional ((()) may make up for the height loss but offer similar drag range of the original (()).
Quote from: Porthos on May 27, 2025, 05:48:46 AMQuote from: Leonman44 on May 27, 2025, 05:28:24 AMTo be honest i dont understand the bellevilles topic , could you please explain?
Bellevilles are conical hence they have properties of "springs." The way they are oriented and how many control the amount of pressure that can be applied to them.
A () two washers config offers "softer" resistance, so lower pressures to compress them...i.e., lower drag range.
A ()() four washers config is also "soft."
A (()) four washers config is "harder" resistance, so higher pressures to compress them...i.e., higher drag range.
With (()), the stack height will be lower than ()(). so the drag control mechanism may "bottom out" before exerting the "max" pressure possible, so sometimes adding an additional ((()) may make up for the height loss but offer similar drag range of the original (()).
Thank you for explaining , so if i understood correctly from the schematics : https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/16visx.pdf (https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/16visx.pdf)
I am looking at parts 18HH ? As i see it my stock config is only () , then i should order a few and try (()) for starts ?
Also would the VISX 20 cam fit in the 16 since i cant grind my cam ? or that performance difference in drags curve is from different Bellevilles hardness ?
All of my VISX and Torque reels have ground drag.
Contact Alan and see if he has any modified cams.
Quote from: Leonman44 on May 27, 2025, 06:36:44 AMThank you for explaining , so if i understood correctly from the schematics : https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/16visx.pdf (https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/16visx.pdf)
I am looking at parts 18HH ? As i see it my stock config is only () , then i should order a few and try (()) for starts ?
Also would the VISX 20 cam fit in the 16 since i cant grind my cam ? or that performance difference in drags curve is from different Bellevilles hardness ?
It's
experimentation from this point on with the bellevilles and the stack height...
The VISX's came default with two bellevilles...but any spacer/shim washers?
Alan showed this in his 50VISX tutorial:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/1_22_02_18_4_42_01_234232316.jpeg)
In Aloha Dan's 16VSX (yes, it's an eariler variant
BUT the concept is the same) tutorial, there are these shims:
(http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u81/AlohaDan_2007/IMG_0977.jpg)
I had at least two...the intent is to start the pressure application earlier when you dial
IN the Preset Knob (#144) to avoid bottoming out.
It is also possible to do (() instead of shims, but I suspect a single belleville cost more than multiple shims and also there may be clearance limitations.
Would only do (()) with no shims to start. The Preset Knob needs to be completely OFF...dialed all the way out to ensure it is at "zero" before trying this.
As always, YMMV...
Quote from: Keta on May 27, 2025, 12:19:20 PMAll of my VISX and Torque reels have ground drag.
Contact Alan and see if he has any modified cams.
Just opened it up again , wiped any excess grease i could find , drags alreay looked drier but the metal ring was quite oily , gave them a wipe too. Still getting exactly the same results so i did everything correct from the start!
Tried to get a bit more out of it: 14lb at 1 , 20lb at strike 2.5 , 26lb at 4 and 33lb at full. Killed the low range a bit , i hope that wont cost me...
Sounds like i do need a ground cam too , will pm Alan and see if he can help me ! ;D
Quote from: Porthos on May 27, 2025, 03:25:16 PMQuote from: Leonman44 on May 27, 2025, 06:36:44 AMThank you for explaining , so if i understood correctly from the schematics : https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/16visx.pdf (https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/16visx.pdf)
I am looking at parts 18HH ? As i see it my stock config is only () , then i should order a few and try (()) for starts ?
Also would the VISX 20 cam fit in the 16 since i cant grind my cam ? or that performance difference in drags curve is from different Bellevilles hardness ?
It's experimentation from this point on with the bellevilles and the stack height...
The VISX's came default with two bellevilles...but any spacer/shim washers?
Alan showed this in his 50VISX tutorial:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/1_22_02_18_4_42_01_234232316.jpeg)
In Aloha Dan's 16VSX (yes, it's an eariler variant BUT the concept is the same) tutorial, there are these shims:
(http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u81/AlohaDan_2007/IMG_0977.jpg)
I had at least two...the intent is to start the pressure application earlier when you dial IN the Preset Knob (#144) to avoid bottoming out.
It is also possible to do (() instead of shims, but I suspect a single belleville cost more than multiple shims and also there may be clearance limitations.
Would only do (()) with no shims to start. The Preset Knob needs to be completely OFF...dialed all the way out to ensure it is at "zero" before trying this.
As always, YMMV...
Very nice ! I think that i will go for the cam mod first as this is a bit harder and requires a lot of assemble/dissasemble that i would like to avoid but i do enjoy learning about more things ! ;)
I just wanted to make an update , i received a ground cam from Alan and it did fix the drag curve , now i am getting both very nice Max and Min drags at the same preset ! Big thanks to Alan for unlocking my reel ! :d
Finally i can enjoy this reel now that everything got fixed ! ;D