Greetings all.
Last year I was given an old Penn 113 with black side-plates. I serviced it late in the year, but only replaced the 3 drags, between main gear and the handle, with Carbontex. When I pulled the reel out this morning, I found that it had excessive axial play, which got worse the more I tightened the drag. I now see that on Smoooth Drag's site, they have a special parts set for the black side-plate, non "H", 113, which has 11 pieces. I'm guessing that when one replaces the drags in these reels, one must do the carbontex, as well as the metals. I now see that the 11-piece is made up of 5 metals and 6 drags. I'm guessing that my going with just the three washers that showed up in the Penn schematic, left me with the excessive play that I feel in the handle. Correct? Thanks ahead of time. Cheers.
I've repaired a couple old 113s that had the original asbestos drag washers: really thick. Also, some have the thicker steel washers. When I switched to HT100 type washers, I had to add some extra drag washers and steel washers in the drag stack. Usually your last steel washer in the drag stack is slightly above the gear rim. You may also need to place a Belleville (cupped) type washer on top of the drag stack to take up the slack inside. I've also had to use the wavy washers outside to take up slack around the Star. My experience with the older 113s is I needed to experiment to find the right combination. Others may have a more exact combination.
@MACflyer, Thanks for your detailed response. That makes a lot of sense. And while I can't remember what the drag washers that I replaced looked like, I do know that the drags on a recent 114H, a 6/0, service were very thick indeed. I kept the old metals from the 114H. I'll look into whether or not they'll work with the 113 as I experiment.
This is kind of ringing a bell with me that I may have read a post where someone talked about such experimentation. I'm sure that it was dealing with an old Penn. Thanks again. Cheers.
When reshaping CF drag washers avoid breathing the dust. DO NOT RESHAPE THE OLD ASBESTOS WASHERS.
You can put 2 CF washers between the metal washers or the preferred thing is to add to the stack alternating keyed/eared, the top metal washer has to be a keyed washer.You can use keyed washers to shim the drag stack if needed.
@Keta, Thanks for the warning. I do know that those old washers are asbestos, so I'm pretty careful with them. I definitely won't be roughing them up with sandpaper, or other such nonsense.
I was putting minimal money into the reel, which is why I only replaced the drags. I'm checking into the difference in thickness between the Penn originals and the Carbontex. It does look significant at this point. The asbestos are ~3.3mm thick. The Carbontex look like they might be 1/3 that amount, or less. :o So something must be added to the stack, to be sure.
I'm still looking into it. Many thanks. Cheers. :d
Mr. Roundel - I think you may be chasing a different issue here. The handle, star, and drag stack all move together as a unit; if you have too much play I can only think of two things: your gear sleeve is loose on the bridge stem. There are many threads here on the forum that deal with intalling an washer under the sleeve to take up slack. Also, are you sure that maybe your factory brass sleeve might not be starting to get a little worn/rounded at the handle interface? Very common, and that can cause wobbly handle that you might be interpreting as drag slop. The fact that the slop increases when you tighten the drag up makes me lean this way, but again without reel in hand I am only guessing; please tell us what you find. This is certainly curable. - john
Dumb question if you took the sleeve off are you 10,000% sure you you put the pin back in? Does just the sleeve move on the post? Without disassembling Is there play in the sleeve on the post when the handle and star are removed?
Thanks, Brewcrafter. Maybe I'm using term "axial play" incorrectly. I'm referring to in and out play, rather than side to side.
I ended up finding the unmarked plastic bag that had the old drag washers in it. Since the original Penn drag washers were considerably thicker than the Carbontex drags, I switched out one Carbontex for the thickest original I had retained. I also used a Carbontex drag washer (Thicker than red fiber washer.) under the main gear. Believe it or not, this eliminated much of the excess axial play/endshake (Watchmaking term, as opposed to side shake.).
Since the reel would probably end up being used as a deep water rock fish rig, if used at all, I think it will be adequate. I don't think I'd be using it as a primary reel going after BFT, or other such large game-fish, so it's not a big risk. It's just hard to justify putting $40 in drag parts in a reel that might be lucky to command such a price in an auction. And there is no sentimental value attached. Thanks again. Cheers.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on May 31, 2025, 12:27:19 AMDumb question if you took the sleeve off are you 10,000% sure you you put the pin back in? Does just the sleeve move on the post? Without disassembling Is there play in the sleeve on the post when the handle and star are removed?
Thanks, @JasonGotaProblem. IIRC, I didn't even remove the pin on this one. It was one of the first reels I serviced, and I was cutting that corner. I could feel that there was grease present, so I may have just shot some reel oil in there to loosen it up a bit. It's been 8 months since I did the service, so I can't be 10,000% certain of anything related. The only note I had is that I replaced the 3 drag washers with Carbontex.
The possibility of a missing pin is something I'll look at if I take it apart again. Could happen.Thanks again. Cheers.
The good thing about the non-H Senator 113 is spool bushings instead of those ball bearings in the cup. I've never bought an old Senator H reel where the ball bearings weren't trashed and removal from the cup to replace with new ones, wasn't a PITA. Never had an issue with the bushings on any Penn conventional being worn-out.
I'd do as Keta says; double-up the HT 100's.