For recent spinners, at least the Stradic lines and probably others, Shimano recommends against lubing line roller bearings. What is the magic that suggests that? Are the bearings some version of mag-sealed? Trying to cut through the high and deep Shimano market-speak to find substance didn't yield anything. Thanks.
--Mike
Shimano have had a few marketing terms for their bearings (like ARB: Always/Already Rusting Bearing) but I haven't heard of no lube. Cheaper Daiwa now have some sort of polymer bush bearing that is less likely to fall apart and leave the outer race stuck in the LR, but it gets same treatment as below. Even the Daiwa Magoil bearings are a PITA because they are invariably 1mm thicker than standard, and years ago their 5x9x4 for the Saltiga spinners were $50+ea. A 5x9x3 with a 1mm SS shim works just fine. I hit the brgs with CorrosionX, Superlube ISO68, and pack the LR housing with synth grease as well. Less work for me next time trying to get it out!
You can't prevent the bearing from getting wet. The spinning bearing will whip the oil and water into mayonnaise. The more you whip the thicker it gets. Water alone will provide some lubrication.
Has nothing to do with Shimano, but I have always been against oiling or greasing spinning reel line roller bushings or bearings. I've always felt it did more harm than good. I add a little Armor All instead as it doesn't draw dust & dirt like oils or grease do.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on June 20, 2025, 06:02:58 AMHas nothing to do with Shimano, but I have always been against oiling or greasing spinning reel line roller bushings or bearings. I've always felt it did more harm than good. I add a little Armor All instead as it doesn't draw dust & dirt like oils or grease do.
interesting idea. I wouldn't put armor all on any surfaces in my car if you paid me to. But that sounds like an interesting use.
Based on experience in SW, you would have to disassemble and flush the line-roller assembly on an older Stratic after each trip, if no lube. There's (too) many parts to deal with. Can't exactly remember, but there's 2-3 bits that can corrode. Don't know about the newer ones, maybe they upgraded parts because of earlier common issues.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on June 20, 2025, 10:51:20 AMQuote from: Midway Tommy on June 20, 2025, 06:02:58 AMHas nothing to do with Shimano, but I have always been against oiling or greasing spinning reel line roller bushings or bearings. I've always felt it did more harm than good. I add a little Armor All instead as it doesn't draw dust & dirt like oils or grease do.
interesting idea. I wouldn't put armor all on any surfaces in my car if you paid me to. But that sounds like an interesting use.
I also use it in key lock tumblers rather than graphite (much cleaner), cabinet drawer slides, window slide tracks, sliding patio doors, closet bifold & bypass doors, exterior door weatherstrip, etc. It works much better & lasts longer, at least for me anyway, than wax type products.
My theory on the no-maintenance recommendation:
Looks to me like that line roller on the Stradic is simply a ball bearing with a groove cut on the the outside of the outer race, turning two parts into one (and making it impossible to replace a failed bearing with a standard non-OEM part). This design allows for a larger bearing with larger balls, which I think should also be a bit better in terms of handling load (not sure if this is necessary), and behaving a bit better if some corrosion occurs (a very small bearing is going to seize up sooner).
It also looks like the bearing has full seals that will tend to hold lubricants in, but also interferes little bit with rolling resistance. These seals are often removable on normal third party sealed ball bearings, as it is difficult to lubricate them otherwise.
Perhaps Shimano has decided that the roller performs best with whatever lubricant they already have in there, and will last the useful lifetime of the reel (whatever thst is for a Stradic) without further maintenance. Plus some idjit customers diving in and damaging the (non-removable?) seals to pump the bearing full of WD-40 is going to shorten the life, so easiest to tell us to leave it alone.
On Armor All as a bearing lubricant:
I am not a big fan of using products so far away from their intended purposes.
The Armor All formula has changed over the last couple of decades to remove VOCs and other nasties, so it depends on how old your bottle is. The newer stuff is some sort of water based silicone treatment with some sort of sacrificial UV protectant added in. Same basic product as 303, or many others in the category, but there are probably variations in the formulation. I am going to assume that we are discussing these more recent formulations.
Perhaps after the water evaporates, the residue behaves like a light silicone oil, which is not a terrible choice for a bearing lubricant on a spinning reel line roller, especially with open bearings. I would be hesitant to squirt it into a sealed ball bearing, as if there is some salt residue inside, the water would dissolve the salt, accelerating the corrosion process. Plus once you get silicone in, it is hard to clean it out if you change your mind- you need to use soaps instead of solvents.
If I felt compelled to ignore advice to not lubricate the roller, I would just try a drop of thin film lubricant/corrosion inhibitor like our local long time favorite TSI 321.
My $0.02,
-J
Maybe they're just using a concave bearing like one would use for a yoyo? Sure would eliminate a few parts. If not, maybe we should consider it?
i'd vote for oil..... :-\
If I designed a line roller, I'd first think; bushing, no ball bearing(s). Something with single screw removal that wouldn't strip easily. Remove, rinse, lube if you wanna. I always thought the M.G. stationary tungsten carbide line "guides" were a good idea: just rotate or replace if a groove developed. Chances are, you can catch it before the line starts to fray.
It' no biggie to me to clean and lube a handle knob, IF it's removable and there's no stupid ball bearings to deal with.
I am with Alan. If it is actually a ball bearing on the inside, I'm keeping that puppy lubricated.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on June 20, 2025, 06:34:20 PMMaybe they're just using a concave bearing like one would use for a yoyo? Sure would eliminate a few parts. If not, maybe we should consider it?
Exactly. But the groove shape does not look the same as a yo-yo bearing. Plus, I doubt that a yoyo bearing is going to have the right dimensions and be made out of 440c stainless.
Lots of Stradic models out there, but here are a couple of the line rollers. Looks to me like the very outer part might be press fit on a "normal" bearing.
I always put a drop of oil under the line roller/guide.
I have seen too many line guides either frozen or corroded onto the bail wire.
Even if a line roller is not a roller —- just stationary —- it is still a good idea, at least for me and the clients reels.
A reel gets used, then stored for a week, 2 weeks, 2 years, or 10 years. Just good preventive maintenance.
A lot of the things that we read about reels are not written by the reel techs or anglers out in real world fishing conditions. Many instructions are basically "dumbed down" for easier warranty issues, ability to market that a reel has a lot of bearings (which are needful on most graphite reels for mechanical support), and the marketing department.
For me, common sense dictates a little oil or grease in spots that I know will benefit.
Best, Fred
Just to clarify, my Armor All jug is well over 25 years old & has always been kept in a conditioned area. I have noticed, though, that a bottle I purchased a couple of years ago seemed a little watery. It sat in an unheated building through a couple of winters, froze and is more or less a bottle of gook now. Everything separated & you can't shake it enough to get it to gain a decent consistency. Never thought about the fact that they probably changed the formula.
On different note, none of the reels I own or use have a ball bearing at the line roller. I can see where a ball bearing could become a real PITA there, especially where SW is prevalent. I prefer the bushing type line roller bearing, they seem to be much easier to maintain.
I really think concave bearings might be something worth considering as a line roller.
Thanks for the replies. To my eye the line roller bearings in both an FL 4K and FM 5K look plain vanilla. They seem to corrode quickly with or without oiling.
--Mike
This is another place a plain bearing would be better.
Where does Shimano say not to oil the LRB, out of interest?
The Stradic roller is a frustrating part - it's not a magic/special outer race, it's just a regular ball bearing pressed into the roller shell. I'm sure if you were incredibly careful/skilled you could press it back out again, but I think the roller is super thin and you would be at high risk of damaging it. It's annoying to have to replace the entire unit as I'm sure the bearing itself would only be a few dollars and it's a fairly common part to fail, being exposed as it is and subject to arguably the hardest work in the reel.
my surf reels are 706z penns, been using these for about 20 years. as long as i pull the line roller, rinse it, let it dry, and reassemble with a couple drops of tsi 321 i'm getting 10 years or so from my line roller bearings. if you get foamy stuff out of them just use less oil. salt water will lock up most reel parts without cleaning and light lubrication.
Well designed for "line rolling" Mike, until you don't get enough FW or lube in there and have to leave it for a day or more. IMO, too many small parts on these type a Shimano systems to be practical.
Hmmm, maybe I should check my 3000 FJ now that we're talking about it(keep it stored in my car on a telescoping rod). If it's frozen-up it'll be a "can of worms" fer sher because of part availability issues.
Quote from: boon on June 23, 2025, 01:45:05 AMWhere does Shimano say not to oil the LRB, out of interest?
The Stradic roller is a frustrating part - it's not a magic/special outer race, it's just a regular ball bearing pressed into the roller shell. I'm sure if you were incredibly careful/skilled you could press it back out again, but I think the roller is super thin and you would be at high risk of damaging it. It's annoying to have to replace the entire unit as I'm sure the bearing itself would only be a few dollars and it's a fairly common part to fail, being exposed as it is and subject to arguably the hardest work in the reel.
Indeed, why does Shimano say that, my primary question.
I've pressed out the bearing from the roller, and am not that skilled. Maybe careful. Or maybe just reckless.
I went and found Shimano North America's spinning reel maintenance guide.
Indeed it says not to oil the waterproof line roller bearings. This is because they are a greased bearing (which I find quite surprising!), and they're presumably worried about compatibility of oils with the grease. It says to grease non-waterproof bearings, and to use a "special water-repellent grease" (whatever that means) for the waterproof ones.
Guess you learn something every day?
Quote from: boon on June 23, 2025, 11:25:33 PMI went and found Shimano North America's spinning reel maintenance guide.
Indeed it says not to oil the waterproof line roller bearings. This is because they are a greased bearing (which I find quite surprising!), and they're presumably worried about compatibility of oils with the grease. It says to grease non-waterproof bearings, and to use a "special water-repellent grease" (whatever that means) for the waterproof ones.
Guess you learn something every day?
Man, I was definitely not taking the shortest route to the answer on this question :-[
Grease makes sense to me. Better for corrosion resistance, and it is not like a line roller needs high RPMs.
-J
My Stella 3000 FJ's line roller is very noisy. I did add some reel lube to try to solve the problem but it didn't help. I need to change it out. No problems with any of the FK or SWC line rollers. I did not oil these rollers. Only rinsed with FW after each outing. Come to think about it, my GF's Moms' Stradic CI4s, Vanfords, and Miravel all needed LRB replacement. She fishes 2-4 days a week in SW.
Thread tangent warning!
Your GF's mom fishes?! Cool! What about your GF?
The line roller bb prolly works harder than any other bb in a spinning reel. Small diameter means-more turns/line length—reeled-in. Plus the right-angle pressure of the line on the bb-roller, when reeling in against variable loads. But like Dave said, the speed and maybe radial load will not that approach something required in many applications outside of spinning reels.
Yes Gfish. My Better Half does fish. Quite often she catches more fish than I do when dunking and freelining. The only problem is now I have to go fishing at times that I don't feel like going but she wants to go.
Quote from: boon on June 23, 2025, 11:25:33 PMI went and found Shimano North America's spinning reel maintenance guide.
Indeed it says not to oil the waterproof line roller bearings. This is because they are a greased bearing (which I find quite surprising!), and they're presumably worried about compatibility of oils with the grease. It says to grease non-waterproof bearings, and to use a "special water-repellent grease" (whatever that means) for the waterproof ones.
Guess you learn something every day?
Shimano has a grease called DG18 Water repellant grease
Description:
Water Proof special grease for line rollers of all spinning reels. You should not apply this grease to other mechanicals.