Hi - newbie here with a question about the TLD 30ii vs the TLD50ii ...
If one takes the play out of the drag plate and changes the Belleville washers so as to up the drag of a TLD30ii to the same drags as you get with a TLD50ii ... which reel is more likely to give out/ have a frame failure on a big fish?
Basically I would rather use the TLD30's with say 60lb braid and 40lb mono top shot for the fishing (trolling from a center console) than the 50's ... if all else was equal as they are lighter and nicer to handle.
Fish that one might encounter would be anything from a sail to a 200lb yellowfin to a 600lb blue marlin.
Don't need to keep the billfish - just tag and release.
I own both reel types.
i cracked the TLD 50 II frame with 25 pounds of drag. i would not recommend it at all. with just 40 pound mono, you could use straight mono and do fine make sure the bellevilles are in the "(())" configuration. you should get an easy 12 pounds of drag at strike and 20 pounds at full. don't bother with braid for a reel like this.
honestly, though, i would not use either reel. for fishing this pound class, i would recommend at makaira 50 or penn international 50. you would be looking at 700 yards of 130 pound braid and a 100 foot topshot of 130 pound mono, 40 pounds of drag at strike and 60 to 65 pounds of drag at full.
Quote from: alantani on July 11, 2025, 12:24:19 AMi cracked the TLD 50 II frame with 25 pounds of drag. i would not recommend it at all. with just 40 pound mono, you could use straight mono and do fine make sure the bellevilles are in the "(())" configuration. you should get an easy 12 pounds of drag at strike and 20 pounds at full. don't bother with braid for a reel like this.
honestly, though, i would not use either reel. for fishing this pound class, i would recommend at makaira 50 or penn international 50. you would be looking at 700 yards of 130 pound braid and a 100 foot topshot of 130 pound mono, 40 pounds of drag at strike and 60 to 65 pounds of drag at full.
Thank you Alan. I understand they are not ideal and maybe I will slowly upgrade - but at the moment it's what I have.
Would you say the 30 frames are stronger than the 50?
i think that the 30 frame is definitely stronger than the 50. the 20 frame is stronger than both!!!
Both my TLD 20 II and 30 have topless aluminum frames. Much stronger than the stock graphite!
Quote from: alantani on July 11, 2025, 04:51:20 AMi think that the 30 frame is definitely stronger than the 50. the 20 frame is stronger than both!!!
Does this beg the question that be is better off with a 20 or 30 with braid for line capacity than a 50?
Or are there another advantages to the 50 than line capacity - like a better/ smoother drag because it's bigger?
honestly, i would go with the tld 20 two speed, 80 pound braid and a topshot of 50-60 pound mono, 15 pounds of drag at strike and 25 pounds of drag at full.
You are playing with fire fishing those reels if a 600 blue marlin is a prospect. A fired up one will spool a TLD30 on the first run, especially if you're running 40lb topshot and appropriate drag.
I'd be looking at Talica or Makaira 50s with 80lb hollowcore and matching topshot.
Quote from: boon on July 13, 2025, 02:03:58 AMYou are playing with fire fishing those reels if a 600 blue marlin is a prospect. A fired up one will spool a TLD30 on the first run, especially if you're running 40lb topshot and appropriate drag.
I'd be looking at Talica or Makaira 50s with 80lb hollowcore and matching topshot.
I would be interested in thoughts on "Light Gauge" fishing ... which would obviously not stress a reel out in the same way...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OdYHGfr0GP0
Even fishing "Light Gauge" Bonze isn't fluffing about with TLD30s. He fishes Tiagra 50ws as far as I'm aware. There is far more to a game reel than just the raw drag number; a TLD doesn't have the thermal mass to deal with a fish ripping 1000yd of line off it in a single run.
Worst case you get spooled by a big girl and leave her towing your 750 yards or whatever of braid around until the hook falls out.
Quote from: TangoDelta1981 on July 14, 2025, 08:10:43 AMQuote from: boon on July 13, 2025, 02:03:58 AMYou are playing with fire fishing those reels if a 600 blue marlin is a prospect. A fired up one will spool a TLD30 on the first run, especially if you're running 40lb topshot and appropriate drag.
I'd be looking at Talica or Makaira 50s with 80lb hollowcore and matching topshot.
I would be interested in thoughts on "Light Gauge" fishing ... which would obviously not stress a reel out in the same way...
Roughly the same technique is now the most popular way to catch billfish on fly fishing gear. The goal is to encourage the fish not to sound by using extremely light drag ( like 3 lbs or so) and use the boat to run down the fish on the surface. For the stronger billfish species like blue marlin, they often use a sinking head line under the belief that the line being lower in the water will cause the fish to swim upward against the load.
I lost my desire for targeting billfish many years ago, but have been on boats where striped marlin and sailfish have been caught with this technique. It is very doable with anglers of minimal skill and a good captain.
Wearing the fish out on the surface is not the issue. Lifting the fish after it sounds and swims slowly is the hard part. On fly gear, the practical limit for billfish seems to be around 200 lbs. With conventional gear, you can go larger, but when the marlin sounds toward the end of the fight, you will still need enough drag to be able to lift it. I never tried to dredge up a tired marlin over maybe 250 lbs, so I can't tell you how doable it is with a reel that can handle 20 lbs at sunset (at this point, you are lifting the fish, it is not taking line)and a marlin three times that size. It seems like it is possible, but it doesn't meet my criteria for fun. It probably is not great for a fish that you intend to release. Killing a billfish from exhaustion is not that rare.
Yellowfin are different. Tuna are endurance swimmers, and you need to use as much load as you have available to stop them. And yellowfin tend to sound pretty readily, so you can't trick them into staying up on the surface.
If you are expecting to catch yellowfin mostly under 100 lb and marlin under 200 lbs, a TLD20 two speed seems like a good match to me. Rigging up to optimize your chances for the the largest possible fish means that you will be pulling in lots of 30 lb tuna with a 30W behemoth of a reel on a big game stick.
As to which TLD model: the location of the failure point on the frames all look to be about the same design and thickness to me. the taller the spool and (especially) the wider the frame, the greater the leverage, which increases the load at the weak spot for same amount of drag.
A slightly larger drag disk diameter at the expense of load on the weak spot doesn't seem like a good tradeoff to me. But it is hard to know for sure without load testing to failure. We do know that the TLD50 frame failures are not uncommon, and that TLD20 frame failures are rare (I haven't heard of one), but I would speculate that the 50s are also more likely to have been pulling on bigger fish at heavier drag settings.
-J
Quote from: boon on July 14, 2025, 12:55:02 PMEven fishing "Light Gauge" Bonze isn't fluffing about with TLD30s. He fishes Tiagra 50ws as far as I'm aware. There is far more to a game reel than just the raw drag number; a TLD doesn't have the thermal mass to deal with a fish ripping 1000yd of line off it in a single run.
Worst case you get spooled by a big girl and leave her towing your 750 yards or whatever of braid around until the hook falls out.
Firstly, I want to thank everyone who has chipped in.
Secondly, it is apparent that I should be upgrading my reels just in case that big girl comes along - or that occasional very big yellowfin (200lbs plus).
Fish like these are not common where I am but common enough that if I fish long enough there is a good chance of hooking one and I don't want tackle failure to be the reason I loose one.
However, I also don't want to be lugging heavy Tiagras to and from my boat and we also catch so many smaller fish - mahi, wahoo, small tuna etc - that I want something lighter.
Should I be looking at the Talicas or equivalent - and which ones should I be looking at.
I was put off the Speedmasters by them not having harness lugs.
Have you considered Penn International reels? A VISX 20 or 30 would do what you are trying to do. I prefer my VISX 16 for plus size BFT and the 16 or 20 for plus size YFT. I have zero interest in marlin and I break them off when I hook one.
I like Makaira's! I have the 15T, 16, 20, 50, all SEa's. I caught a large cow (298#) and a super (321#) on the 20 w/100# and a cow (270#) on the 50.
With a 40# top shot the TLD 30 would be fine. I fish mine with a 60# top shot for local trolling. I caught a 60# BFT dragging a cedar plug.
Another good choice Mark.
I have to say Shimano is not in my top 5 of big game reels. Parts availability is sketchy at best. If the price point is an issue look at the Penn Fathoms. 1st Gen is better than 2nd, but I do have both. If really pissed off fish are on the menu the Internationals (in my book, and I do love my Penns) are the way to go. The Australian sellers on EBay have the best prices you will find on new Fathoms.
This fish (150# BF) was on a Fathom 40NLD2 with 80# braid and topshot. The rod was way under powered the Fathom held its own. Fish kicked my butt, the rods fault, not the reel.
Bill
EDIT: Man what do I know, go fight a 600lb Blue on a Fathom, let me know how it goes.
Quote from: boon on July 16, 2025, 08:59:07 AMEDIT: Man what do I know, go fight a 600lb Blue on a Fathom, let me know how it goes.
Although I personaly fish my FTH 40N as a 50/60# reel I know a lot of BFT over 200# have been caught with them.
I think a Fathom 80 might be up to plus size marlin. If I was targeting them I would prefer a International 50 or larger though.
Gear Ratio: 4.2:1 / 1.6:1
Max Drag: 50lb | 22.6kg
Braid Capacity (yds/lbs) 980/100 815/130 600/200
Quote from: boon on July 16, 2025, 08:59:07 AMEDIT: Man what do I know, go fight a 600lb Blue on a Fathom, let me know how it goes.
I wouldn't chase a 600# marlin with a Fathom and I wouldn't chase a marlin with a TLD or Squall either.
How often do 600# fish come around?
I am a firm believer in choosing a reel for the fish I'm most likely to catch. Bill
Quote from: Bill B on July 16, 2025, 06:07:56 PMI am a firm believer in choosing a reel for the fish I'm most likely to catch. Bill
Me too, it's a tricky one though because when you're in waters where those big fish are, shall we say, not uncommon, you just have to be at peace with very likely getting the snot beaten out of you if you do hook one. It means probably 99% of your fishing will be more sporting, more enjoyable etc, but you might end up awake at 3am wishing you'd had a proper game reel after losing a monster. I know I did, and that was with a 50w when I should have been using an 80.
I'm with Bill on this. When that once-in-a-lifetime giant odd-ball comes along you just tie in another rig before you get stripped. You have hundreds of yards to think about it.
Quote from: Bill B on July 16, 2025, 06:07:56 PMQuote from: boon on July 16, 2025, 08:59:07 AMEDIT: Man what do I know, go fight a 600lb Blue on a Fathom, let me know how it goes.
I wouldn't chase a 600# marlin with a Fathom and I wouldn't chase a marlin with a TLD or Squall either.
How often do 600# fish come around?
I am a firm believer in choosing a reel for the fish I'm most likely to catch. Bill
They do come around - if you fished 100 days you would definitely hook one - but there is some predictability to it - with the bigger ones being around later in the season.
The dilemma is that there are also lots of smaller blues and stripes plus sailfish at the same time - and these can be quite hard to hook at times.
When fishing a nice spread with Illanders and ballyhoo, plus the need to drop back smoothly to the sail, the TLD's are nice.
I suppose one can mitigate things somewhat, I normally pull the big marlin lures close to the boat on 2x Penn International 30W's - but Murphy's Law is always there.
As a center console we are fairly quick at turning and chasing the fish fwds.
I suppose the reality is that slowly upgrading to Talicas is probably the way to go.
The thing is that if one is fishing "light gauge" hooks as we mostly do, my question remains, is there any real advantage (other than a better drag system in terms of heat dissipation) to have a reel that can handle heavy drags?
I suppose I probably need to see what it takes to straighten a light gauge hook and consider that as an upper limit.
Quote from: TangoDelta1981 on July 17, 2025, 05:39:29 AMI suppose the reality is that slowly upgrading to Talicas is probably the way to go.
The thing is that if one is fishing "light gauge" hooks as we mostly do, my question remains, is there any real advantage (other than a better drag system in terms of heat dissipation) to have a reel that can handle heavy drags?
I suppose I probably need to see what it takes to straighten a light gauge hook and consider that as an upper limit.
Makairas and Penn International VISX should be in the mix for you too.
Light gauge does not mean light drag. It means sometimes light drag. You can still use "big game" levels of drag if you need to, as long as the hook is sunk in properly. A properly sunk light gauge hook should deal with 30lb of drag no problem, which is a lot on standup in a small boat. It still might not stop a pissed off fish :)
go with the makaira or the visx.
For reels without harness lugs - ie a Speedmaster or reels where putting pressure on the lugs leads to possible frame failure (TLDs) ... do these work with a harness ... https://www.tackledirect.com/black-magic-tackle-light-tackle-harness-adapter.html
And how do they feel similar or is it a serious downgrade
Quote from: TangoDelta1981 on July 20, 2025, 04:39:58 PMFor reels without harness lugs - ie a Speedmaster or reels where putting pressure on the lugs leads to possible frame failure (TLDs) ... do these work with a harness ... https://www.tackledirect.com/black-magic-tackle-light-tackle-harness-adapter.html
And how do they feel similar or is it a serious downgrade
I don't think that putting pressure on the lugs contributes to frame failures in the TLDs. These frames fail from the vertical levering and horizontal twisting load when the line is on the side of the spool with the wider models. If anything, a harness with lugs will provide some modest amount of load sharing.
Not that I would recommend locking a harness onto the lugs of a reel with a reputation for breaking off at the foot of the frame. That could get a bit scary.
Quote from: TangoDelta1981 on July 17, 2025, 05:39:29 AMThe thing is that if one is fishing "light gauge" hooks as we mostly do, my question remains, is there any real advantage (other than a better drag system in terms of heat dissipation) to have a reel that can handle heavy drags?
As Boon noted, when the load is centered on the bend of the hook, even a lighter gauge hook will be quite strong. Even my typical carbon steel 2/0 saltwater fly hook can easily hold 60 lbs of load when perfectly centered on the apex of the bend. The problem is that even when the hook fully penetrates, if the only the tip is in harder bone, the load will not be centered. I have bent the same 2/0 fly hooks using around 10 lbs of drag in actual fishing.
The stronger the hook, the more leeway you have for less than perfect hookset.
Having more drag can come in handy if you need it to lift that big blue after it sounds at the end of your light gauge fight. You might bend the hook, but you might not. At that point, your options are sort of limited. But more available drag gives you a chance.
I am not a big believer that the larger/heavier frames and spools provide better drag performance due to conduction of heat into larger "heat sinks". But that is a longer debate. I am also not sure how much "better" the drags are, other than a larger surface area for heat transfer (probably mostly to the surrounding air) on the larger reels. It is enough to note that those big gold reels have stronger frames and larger ball bearings, which allow them to more safely handle higher drag situations.
I have never personally seen a marlin boatside that was larger the 250 lbs. I can only imagine one that was 2.5 times that size. If I was intentionally targeting billfish that large, I want whatever is the farthest from flimsy, especially if I am going to harness myself to it.
A good eventual compromise for you might be to go to a International/Makaira class reel, but stick to a smaller size. Light enough to not be a complete buzzkill on the typical catch, but less likely to blow up on you with a big marlin that you can fight with the light gauge technique. A VISX 16 gets you close to 800 yards of 80 lb braid with 45 lbs of drag according the Penn's specs.
BTW, where are you fishing?
-J
The harness lugs on the one I saw explode were not being used. The reel was being fished with 130# spectra and the YFT we were catching all ran between 170 and 250 pounds.
Quote from: jurelometer on July 20, 2025, 05:55:21 PMBTW, where are you fishing?
-J
East Africa.
All this is very interesting stuff. I suppose the flip-side is to remember how many fish have been landed on TLDs the world over!
I have some older single speed Penn International 20s that I may service and add to the fray whilst I slowly upgrade .
Quote from: TangoDelta1981 on July 10, 2025, 09:22:39 PMFish that one might encounter would be anything from a sail to a 200lb yellowfin to a 600lb blue marlin.
There is no one rod, reel, outfit that can truly do it all, the needs of light tackle billfishing - freespool - handling - sensitivity are almost diametrically opposite to the demands of heavy tackle fish and fishing. Smaller reels capable of heavy drag do exist but the heavy line, rods etc needed to use that drag capability can themselves make you less effective on the more numerous small billfish for which as you have already found a delicate touch will get you further than a heavy hand. I would advise you choose your weapon based on your understanding of your fishery and your personal or team aims and take your chance, accept the risk of an overmatch or if heavy gear is chosen the greater chance that smaller fish will be missed or overpowered, is that not why we call it fishing rather than catching?
There is no doubt that with intelligent boat handling and angling a lot of great fish have been caught on tackle that would be considered light for their size, these are your most effective weapons when a large fish for size tackle jumps on I.M.O. Time spent fishing with professionals to learn and understand these tactics is never wasted. Of course there are also any number of stories of the big one that got away, and these would include fish hooked on heavy tackle as well as light. So much depends on whether your objective is sport and fun vs. wishing to be truly ready for the big one, which would include strong hooks - heavy leader - number of lines fished as well as having the appropriate tackle. If you need to keep your team happy with action and excitement you will probably find yourself leaning in a different direction to if you have the freedom and desire to focus on the big ones.
For your vessel and situation you will probably also be limited by what your anglers can handle standing up. You will probably not be able to use the full power of 80 lb. line unless you are fishing with a team of Gorillas and even then maybe not.
PS. with the TLD30s I would use them more or less as they were designed for (not more than 50 lb. line) with spectra braid backing for capacity. Just make sure to anticipate and practice what to do if a big one climbs on, as it will come in real handy WHEN it does.
You sir have the fortune of living and fishing in a fishery that allows you these choices and opportunities, I look forward to your future reports, heartbreaks and successes, on light tackle or heavy.
Quote from: Patudo on July 27, 2025, 01:08:27 AMQuote from: TangoDelta1981 on July 10, 2025, 09:22:39 PMFish that one might encounter would be anything from a sail to a 200lb yellowfin to a 600lb blue marlin.
There is no one rod, reel, outfit that can truly do it all, the needs of light tackle billfishing - freespool - handling - sensitivity are almost diametrically opposite to the demands of heavy tackle fish and fishing. Smaller reels capable of heavy drag do exist but the heavy line, rods etc needed to use that drag capability can themselves make you less effective on the more numerous small billfish for which as you have already found a delicate touch will get you further than a heavy hand. I would advise you choose your weapon based on your understanding of your fishery and your personal or team aims and take your chance, accept the risk of an overmatch or if heavy gear is chosen the greater chance that smaller fish will be missed or overpowered, is that not why we call it fishing rather than catching?
There is no doubt that with intelligent boat handling and angling a lot of great fish have been caught on tackle that would be considered light for their size, these are your most effective weapons when a large fish for size tackle jumps on I.M.O. Time spent fishing with professionals to learn and understand these tactics is never wasted. Of course there are also any number of stories of the big one that got away, and these would include fish hooked on heavy tackle as well as light. So much depends on whether your objective is sport and fun vs. wishing to be truly ready for the big one, which would include strong hooks - heavy leader - number of lines fished as well as having the appropriate tackle. If you need to keep your team happy with action and excitement you will probably find yourself leaning in a different direction to if you have the freedom and desire to focus on the big ones.
For your vessel and situation you will probably also be limited by what your anglers can handle standing up. You will probably not be able to use the full power of 80 lb. line unless you are fishing with a team of Gorillas and even then maybe not.
PS. with the TLD30s I would use them more or less as they were designed for (not more than 50 lb. line) with spectra braid backing for capacity. Just make sure to anticipate and practice what to do if a big one climbs on, as it will come in real handy WHEN it does.
You sir have the fortune of living and fishing in a fishery that allows you these choices and opportunities, I look forward to your future reports, heartbreaks and successes, on light tackle or heavy.
Wise words and thank you. For now the TLDs are getting a good service and will continue to be what I use.
Interestingly I spoke to two of the well known Skippers here who have been using TLDs for years - between them they have see 3 frame failures on TLDs in about 35 years of fishing each - all 3 were on 50's and none on the newer composites. I thought that was interesting - and in line with what others have said.
Between them they have both put a lot of fish in the boat; for now I guess I will spend my money on fuel and as you say "accept the risk" and enjoy what we have.