I'm trying to put a 5-stack together for a Daiwa Sealine 50H(300H) which should result in about 28lbs of drag. In order to make the math work, I'm looking at using .6mm Carbontex.
Questions:
- Will .6mm material be heavy enough to work with that level of pressure?
- I don't have punches. Can I cut out the washers with scissors?
Thanks, guys!
Quote from: Decker on December 02, 2025, 08:37:27 PMI'm trying to put a 5-stack together for a Daiwa Sealine 50H(300H) which should result in about 28lbs of drag. In order to make the drag stack math work, I'm looking at using .6mm Carbontex.
Questions:
- Will .6mm material be heavy enough to work with that level of pressure?
- I don't have punches. Can I cut out the washers with scissors?
Thanks, guys!
Im not an expert on Drag washers capabilities but I do recall from old threads something about 0.7mm sheet was the lowest recommended for drag washers, so, I think will be safer trying to find a keyed washer thinner that fit your main gear, something on the 1.1 mm or something
can you tell me the ID hole size (or the size of the shaft sleeve) and OD diameter of the stock keyed metal washer?
I also played with making my own 5+1 for a sealine 400H drag kit with different metal washers I got from different reels from ebay and I also got some stock drag washers from different reels that I needed to modify a bit to make it work, I might have something that will help with your quest for the 5+1 kit for the 50H
Hi Alex, sorry for the loss of your mother! Nice pictures and messages from the Ohana. God rest her soul, and hope we all meet up there!
Thanks for offering to help with the drag project. I'll PM you with more details. There is a relatively thin Daiwa keyed washer that is 1.4mm, and I believe I can use a modified Bryan eared washer at .5mm. The goal is to approximate the 8.8mm of the original stack, thus the .6mm carbontex. I know you're good with numbers, compadre.
Use scissors you don't care about. If you borrow your wife's fabric scissors... Make sure she doesn't find out it was you who ruined them.
I have a pair of "bandage scissors" that can cut thru it like nothing. Frankly I think bandage scissors are on the must-own list.
Quote from: Decker on December 02, 2025, 09:10:56 PMHi Alex, sorry for the loss of your mother! Nice pictures and messages from the Ohana. God rest her soul, and hope we all meet up there!
Thanks for offering to help with the drag project. I'll PM you with more details. There is a relatively thin Daiwa keyed washer that is 1.4mm, and I believe I can use a modified Bryan eared washer at .5mm. The goal is to approximate the 8.8mm of the original stack, thus the .6mm carbontex. I know you're good with numbers, compadre.
thank again amigo for the words for my Mother, I appreciated each and everyone of the ohana messages.
check this thread, I even used some keyed metal washers of different thickness from different reels on which I had to reduce the ID diameter and sometimes increase the ID hole to fit the sleeve
https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,38234.msg451144.html#msg451144
I recall having some keyed metal washers left but I need to know if you can modify any of those to work with your setup
Quote from: steelfish on December 02, 2025, 08:55:31 PMI also played with making my own 5+1 for a sealine 400H drag kit with different metal washers I got from different reels from ebay and I also got some stock drag washers from different reels that I needed to modify a bit to make it work, I might have something that will help with your quest for the 5+1 kit for the 50H
https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,4783.msg37589.html#msg37589
Disregard the reference to the 114H drag washers. It seemed to confuse everybody as to the point I was trying to make
Quotehttps://alantani.com/index.php/topic,4783.msg37589.html#msg37589
Disregard the reference to the 114H drag washers. It seemed to confuse everybody as to the point I was trying to make
Thanks for that. I'm trying to build 5-stack like yours, but for the 50H main gear, to be installed in a 300H.
David, with your experience, I think you could probably answer this question: A keyed washer needs to fit the sleeve well in its center, but does an eared washer need to closely fit the sleeve, or do the ears only need to fit the slots? I ask because I currently have Ultimate Penn 114 eared washers that could be made to fit inside the 50H main gear, but their center hole is substantially larger than the Daiwa sleeve. The Ultimate keyed washers from the 114 kit can't be used because they don't fit the sleeve well. Hoping I can use the eared washers from the kit because they are wicked thin.
...And can I use .6mm Carbontex in this 27lb. 5-stack or is it too thin?
I imagine that the flatter the washers are, the thinner the carbontex can be, because to some degree the ctex acts like a cushion between metals. I'm no expert, but I my eye the Daiwa washers look pretty flat, though they're not ground and not as flat as Bryan's Ultimate ones. Maybe I might need to do some grinding?
From the stacks that I built , I use .5 .8 and 1 mm with no problem . Just try to ovoid brass washers with high drag numbers , they will fill in the cross hatch with brass dust .
Pipe fittings , old cheap sockets with sharp edges will help keep round disks . Even if you have to follow with scissors . You have to use end grain wood to punch on for cleaner cuts . Center punch with sockets help make / mark the center of your washers .
I have never done this but we used Greenlee knockout punches to mod electronic ATE chassis(aluminum).They are pricey! I wonder if they would rip the carbontex or if an auto parts store loans them out?
Quote from: oldmanjoe on December 03, 2025, 01:02:34 PMFrom the stacks that I built , I use .5 .8 and 1 mm with no problem . Just try to ovoid brass washers with high drag numbers , they will fill in the cross hatch with brass dust.
Thanks, Joe. Not sure if it matters but with the thinner carbontex, are you making lighter freshwater drags or one for sea fishing?
Quote from: Decker on December 03, 2025, 02:05:22 PMQuote from: oldmanjoe on December 03, 2025, 01:02:34 PMFrom the stacks that I built , I use .5 .8 and 1 mm with no problem . Just try to ovoid brass washers with high drag numbers , they will fill in the cross hatch with brass dust.
Thanks, Joe. Not sure if it matters but with the thinner ca rbontex, are you making lighter freshwater drags or one for sea fishing?
I am a saltwater fisherman ! Freshwater fish are pets !
I really love my hollow punch sets. It's almost as if they were designed for exactly this.
If you are using anything as a punch to cut the inner hole separately from the outer hole, do the inner hole first. I've learned from experience that if you cut the outer hole first then try to punch out the inner hole (which is the easier way to line it up) the drag disk tends to crack and fall apart. Doesn't seem to happen when you do the inner hole first.
No punches, punchless, and little punchy!
Is there someone here who could do the punching, if I order the Carbontex from SmoothDrag? Puleeeaze, PM me.
I potentially can, if nobody else can. My only real hesitation is how far behind I am on everything, im afraid I may leave you waiting.
What are the inner and outer diameters? There are some annoying size limitations to consider, at least with my particular set of punches.
Thanks, Jason. Starting to think maybe I need to find and buy the punches. Outer diameter is 24mm and inner is 15mm. I know time is precious.
If you cut them with scissors, it may be a little ragged around the edges. But once they are greased and installed you will not be able to tell the difference in performance. You can use a small chisel to get the ID hole started.
The mayhew set I inherited (RIP Keith) are pretty pricy. There appear to be much cheaper versions though if you search "hollow punch"
https://a.co/d/2Xeb3hX
I could do that size. The ID would have to be 16mm as my punches come in even number mm increments.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 03, 2025, 06:24:59 PMThe mayhew set I inherited (RIP Keith) are pretty pricy.
Keith as in "Handi2"?
Quote from: Decker on December 03, 2025, 07:08:22 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 03, 2025, 06:24:59 PMThe mayhew set I inherited (RIP Keith) are pretty pricy.
Keith as in "Handi2"?
Yes indeed. The man, the myth, the legend.
Quote from: Decker on December 03, 2025, 05:47:44 AMA keyed washer needs to fit the sleeve well in its center, but does an eared washer need to closely fit the sleeve, or do the ears only need to fit the slots? I ask because I currently have Ultimate Penn 114 eared washers that could be made to fit inside the 50H main gear, but their center hole is substantially larger than the Daiwa sleeve. Hoping I can use the eared washers from the kit because they are wicked thin.
it should be no problem using those eared washers even if the center hole is bigger than the shaft sleeve, I have seen few factory drag setups with the eared metal washer like that, on quick search I found one example for that, the drag setup of the Okuma Komodo reel, look a that eared washer center hole and check the keyed metal washer center hole, a lot of difference, right? thats similar to what you can achieve with your DIY 5+1 drag kit.
so, work on those UU 114 eared washers and make them fit the 50H main gear
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 03, 2025, 07:10:19 PMQuote from: Decker on December 03, 2025, 07:08:22 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 03, 2025, 06:24:59 PMThe mayhew set I inherited (RIP Keith) are pretty pricy.
Keith as in "Handi2"?
Yes indeed. The man, the myth, the legend.
Wow, how long ago did he pass? Seems like it wasn't long ago that he got married.
Alex, thanks for answering the question. I'll definitely use the UU eared washers then. Yes, the pic illustrates the situation.
Quote from: Decker on December 03, 2025, 11:33:45 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 03, 2025, 07:10:19 PMQuote from: Decker on December 03, 2025, 07:08:22 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 03, 2025, 06:24:59 PMThe mayhew set I inherited (RIP Keith) are pretty pricy.
Keith as in "Handi2"?
Yes indeed. The man, the myth, the legend.
Wow, how long ago did he pass? Seems like it wasn't long ago that he got married.
April 2023. There's a few threads worth reading if you wanna get the full story.
Just rough them out or buy oversized diameter from Dawn, then clamp them between two keyed (not eared) washers with vice grips and hit them with a sanding drum on a Dremmel. I recommend a mask, but it only takes 15 or 20 seconds. Been doing it this way for ever.
Here is how I do it. First a safety warning, CF dust is not good for your lungs so use a vacuum cleaner for dust control.
Start by laying out where you are going to cut.
Drill a pilot hole in the CF
Grind the ears off of 2 eared washers and clamp them on both sides of the rough cut CF
Using the hole in the metal washer as a guide grind the CF with a Dremel for the center hole
Bolt through the hole holding the metal washers tight to the CF and shape the outside on my belt sander
The final product comes out perfict.
A good way to start with the OD is a pair of heavy-duty tinsnips. Then the sanding. USE A MASK.
Thanks, all, Alex, Jason, David, Lee, Greg, Steve! It takes a village to educate this crazy reel customization dilettante (me 8)).
I like the simplicity of the latest suggestions, to cut the Carbontex roughly and shape by sanding. I think I can live with that and avoid buying tools or delegating tasks at holiday time to other fathers and husbands. ^-^
The only unsolved part of this 5-stack design is the keyed washers. The 3-stack I am replacing came with two Daiwa stainless keyed washers of different thicknesses, 1.9 and 1.4mm. In my thickness total, I counted on using three of the 1.4mm keyed washers, but have only the one. Worst case, I can open up a couple of other Sealine reels to find that washer, and harvest there, though that may cripple other reels. To make it more challenging, the two thicknesses seem to have the same part number 376-3401 "drag washer B". So even if I buy additional washers, I can't be sure to get the thinner ones. I asked two eBay sellers to put a caliper on them, and crickets...
Any other ideas for the keyed washers? Anyone on this site have a trove of Daiwa Sealine parts? I thought of grinding down thick ones, but only have an orbital sander to help with that.
Cheers!
Speaking of calipers. What's the width of the round part and width of the flat part? Also what is the height of the stock drag stack? I've got a few ideas but I don't wanna blurt them out til I've done the sniff test.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 04, 2025, 04:54:46 PMSpeaking of calipers. What's the width of the round part and width of the flat part? Also what is the height of the stock drag stack? I've got a few ideas but I don't wanna blurt them out til I've done the sniff test.
Hey Jason,
- The hole of the stock keyed washer is 12.5mm on the round dimension and 10.0mm on the flat dimension.
- The original stack is 8.8mm.
I think I may have found what I need on the web! Emailed Andy at TunasReelTroubles.com (https://stores.tunasreeltroubles.com/)and he has the keyed washers in the right thickness. Also, he sells carbon disks in various outer diameters and thicknesses. They need the ID drilled. $4 a disk but this might just do it! :d I love DIY, but "get her done" takes precedence.
Smooth drag might have the CF washers that are close.
Quote from: Decker on December 03, 2025, 05:17:02 PMHi there, Alex, thanks for offering to help:
Quote from: steelfish on December 02, 2025, 08:55:31 PMcan you tell me the ID hole size (or the size of the shaft sleeve) and OD diameter of the stock keyed metal washer?
The hole of the stock keyed washer is 12.5mm on the round dimension and 10.0mm on the flat dimension.
The thinnest Daiwa stock keyed washer I have is 1.4mm thick. Currently I have only one and need two more for a 5-stack. I may be able to steal some more from other Daiwa reels, but if you have anything close to that, please let me know.
I think I'll be able to use two of the Bryan eared washers from the 114 kit. The inner diameter of that washer is 14.2, so it won't touch the sleeve, but I don't think that matters. The outer diameter is about 24.5mm, compared to 24.2mm of the inside of the gear, so can be shaved down. No one has responded to the question I raised about fitting only on the outside diameter and ears, but it should work.
If I use .6mm Carbontex, here is the math: (5*.6)+(3*1.4)+(2*.5)=8.2mm
The original stack is 8.8, so probably I can use one HT100 washer (1.1mm) in place of a carbontex to hit the right thickness range.
If .6mm is thinner than recommended (as you suggested) then I would need to find some thinner keyed washers to make a 5-stack.
Hope all that is clear. Let me know if you have any thoughts.
Cheers,
/Joe
Amigo Joe,
I was looking on my mixed-match of metal washers I have for when I was making my own 7+1 for the 113h and 5+1 Saline 400H, as I said before, bought some metal eared and keyed washers from other reels that were thinner than the stock metal washers and that might need some adjust on the ID hole or OD diameter, I also carnivalized drag washers and metal washers from other reels that didnt worth to be repaired as some from the Basspro shop brand.
anyway, while checking all those and the measures you sent me from the stock sealine 50H washers:
OD 24.2 mm
ID hole 10 x 12.5 mm
drag stack 8.8 mm
I found out that stock metal washers from the good old jigmaster 500L / penn senator 112H could be a good option for your 5+1 kit with little modification, and HT-100 stock drag washers almost none mod to fit .
next are the measures of Stock 112h/500L metal washers
Keyed Metal washer
OD 24.5 mm
ID hole 8.8 x 10.3 mm
thickness 1.0 mm
Eared Metal washer
OD 24.5 mm
ID 11 mm
thickness 1.1 mm
HT-100 drag washer
OD 24.5 mm
ID 10.7 mm
thickness 0.7 mm
stock drag stack size
9.6 mm
so, with this metal washers you should just reduce a little bit the OD of each washer and with care file down the ID to reach the 10 x 12.5 mm of the stock sealine 50H washers.
you can play with the thinner 0.5mm eared washer and the 1.0 keyed washer (from 500L) to reach the 8.8 mm of the stock drag stack of the sealine 50H
it seems that you had to order the UU 5+1 kit for the 112h instead of the UU 5+1 kit for the 114 reel, while the its not perfect fit for the sealine 50H with bit of mod it will fit
https://www.mysticparts.com/CustomParts/UltimateUpgrades/UU-PENN500.aspx
Quote from: steelfish on December 04, 2025, 06:14:54 PMso, with this metal washers you should just reduce a little bit the OD of each washer and with care file down the ID to reach the 10 x 12.5 mm of the stock sealine 50H washers.
you can play with the thinner 0.5mm eared washer and the 1.0 keyed washer (from 500L) to reach the 8.8 mm of the stock drag stack of the sealine 50H
it seems that you had to order the UU 5+1 kit for the 112h instead of the UU 5+1 kit for the 114 reel, while the its not perfect fit for the sealine 50H with bit of mod it will fit
https://www.mysticparts.com/CustomParts/UltimateUpgrades/UU-PENN500.aspx
Wow, Alex, you really put a lot of thought into this! I did do a comparison with the Jigmaster drags, but was scared off by the thought of messing with the ID of the keyed washers, because they ride on sleeve, and I imagine that any unevenness in enlarging the ID would lead to a wobbly drag. I actually did find keyed washers AND precut carbon washers for sale on the web - see a couple of posts back.
I really appreciate your mental gymnastics to help me out!
When I was tinkering with 7 and 9 washer 349H drag sets I was dammaging the ears on the 9 washer sets at higher drag settings.
Quote from: Decker on December 04, 2025, 06:31:33 PMWow, Alex, you really put a lot of thought into this! ...........
I really appreciate your mental gymnastics to help me out!
no problem Joe, I need to keep my mind occupied on something
glad you found the missing pieces for your kit.
as Lee said, I think Dawn from Smoothdrag might have those drag washers you need already precut on different thickness
Quote from: Keta on December 04, 2025, 06:39:45 PMWhen I was tinkering with 7 and 9 washer 349H drag sets I was dammaging the ears on the 9 washer sets at higher drag settings.
Interesting, Lee. Earlier I was thinking that those ears could be a weak point under pressure. Your experience proves it.
Seems like the 20B SmoothDrag washer would work with a little sanding on both the ID and OD. Will keep that in mind.
I think you're gonna be able to make this work with the 0.7mm sheets. The other point of interest is the depth of the main gear cavity. The highest eared washer needs to be in the groove. The cavity would need to be about 6.6mm deep.
Edit: I see some other posts have appeared since I started writing that. Here's a slightly different take.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 04, 2025, 07:25:09 PMI think you're gonna be able to make this work with the 0.7mm sheets. The other point of interest is the depth of the main gear cavity. The highest eared washer needs to be in the groove. The cavity would need to be about 6.6mm deep.
Edit: I see some other posts have appeared since I started writing that. Here's a slightly different take.
Good visualization. Yes, the stock 3-stack had the eared washer just below the top of the gear cavity. My third eared (on top of the 4th carbon) washer will need to sit flush or deeper. I didn't try to measure the cavity depth, but it needs to be <= 4(.7mm)carbons + 2(1.4mm)keyed + 2(.5mm)eared. That totals 6.6mm. Visually it looks like a close fit.
Also the gear will need a little bit of grinding. The ear slots need to go just a bit deeper, and there is an inner raised ridge on the bottom of the cavity that probably needs to be erased.
If the top eared washer does not go all the way into the gear bend the ears down.
Quote from: Keta on December 04, 2025, 08:15:18 PMIf the top eared washer does not go all the way into the gear bend the ears down.
- NICE
It's really very simple. Go to Smooothdrag and find a carbonfiber disk that is close but larger than you want, in the thickness that you want, then call Dawn, 760-949-0271:
https://www.smoothdrag.com/wp/Carbontex_washer_sizes.pdf
Then go to Daiwa for the metal disks that you need:
"Are you missing parts or perhaps have a broken part on your reel? Daiwa has you covered! You can place parts orders and check pricing/availability through us directly over the phone at (562)375-6800."
Easy, peasy.
David, I tried that but my reel is discontinued by Daiwa and Dawn can't sell me a 5-stack. Headed to Walmart now to buy a new reel.
Seriously, I don't do anything the easy way. Could be a curse or a mental defect but it's part of what brings me back to this site.
/Joe
Quote from: Decker on December 05, 2025, 01:11:45 AMSeriously, I don't do anything the easy way. Could be a curse or a mental defect but it's part of what brings me back to this site.
/Joe
I agree with your way of doing the repairs/upgrades for the reels.
on this reel ProGear 545 I installed a Keta hex insert, I had to get some thin metal washers and reduce the OD of make them fit 6 metal washers with 6 drag washers inside the insert. https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,38283.0.html
I also made a 7+1 kit for the 113h with thin 0.5mm metal keyed and eared washers from a reel I was about to throw it away, I could have easily bought the UU 7+1 kit but where is the fun part with that?
Making my own drag washers/metals, etc let me understand much better how things work on the drag system on our reels, now when I talk about the drag system on reels with other fisheman they think I know a lot jajaja, but when "normal" people hear me talking about drag on reels, gears they just think Im an old Geek, nothing wrong with that or maybe its my shirt of Dragon Ball Z, who knows.
Quote from: Decker on December 05, 2025, 01:11:45 AMDavid, I tried that but my reel is discontinued by Daiwa and Dawn can't sell me a 5-stack. Headed to Walmart now to buy a new reel.
Seriously, I don't do anything the easy way. Could be a curse or a mental defect but it's part of what brings me back to this site.
/Joe
The 376-3401 (keyed) and 376-3501 (eared) washers are available all over the place, even ebay. I suspect Daiwa still has them.
You are misunderstanding what I mean about Smoothdrag. You don't order a 5 stack, you pick a washer size that you can cut down from the list I quoted and order 5 of them. Order by the number on the left column.
https://www.smoothdrag.com/wp/Carbontex_washer_sizes.pdf
Soooooo with all this effort are you gonna do a before after test with a spring scale?
Quote from: day0ne on December 05, 2025, 04:39:47 AMYou are misunderstanding what I mean about Smoothdrag. You don't order a 5 stack, you pick a washer size that you can cut down from the list I quoted and order 5 of them. Order by the number on the left column.
https://www.smoothdrag.com/wp/Carbontex_washer_sizes.pdf
David, sorry if I'm misinterpreting what you said. Yes, I could have bought my carbon drags from SmoothDrag; the 20B washer could have been made to work and maybe I'll go that route on the next one. However, the bigger problem is the overall thickness of the drag stack. An 8.8mm thickness 5-stack can't be done with only stock Daiwa metal washers -- of that I am very sure.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 05, 2025, 05:02:26 AMSoooooo with all this effort are you gonna do a before after test with a spring scale?
Was thinking about that; I don't have a spring scale, just an electronic luggage scale. Once I get this all put together, it can be applied to other reels; the design is "scalable." ;D
Any scale will work. Drag force is measured in pounds so is weight. I annoyed a friend who was struggling with the concept by suggesting he put a bucket full of water on a bathroom scale and see how much the weight readout decreases when he tries to lift it.
I think most of the beliefs about what a drag scale "needs to be" is driven by those who sell drag scales.
Thank you, BTW, I've been in need of some tackle-based entertainment and this project of yours has provided a lot of it for me.
Eventpualy drag increase expose the next weak point. My goal were mostly for a smoother drag at slightly higher drag numbers.
Quote from: Keta on December 05, 2025, 04:08:19 PMEventpualy drag increase expose the next weak point. My goal were mostly for a smoother drag at slightly higher drag numbers.
Being new to this, I guess smoothness is critical. When the possibility of enlarging the ID (center hole) of the keyed washers came up, I was afraid they could get wobbly and jerky. But probably there is a good way.