Currently using an old Penn Squall 30, 6.0:1 gear ratio, to descend undersize grouper and snapper. A couple of us old guys find it a bit difficult to reel up the lead and apparatus afterwards: probably 5lbs. Last trip I put a Penn Longbeach 66, 2.5:1 gear ratio, on the rod, but it takes too long especially with a hot bite. Now looking to buy a used Penn 210m or 310gti for a little more speed. Both sell for about $30-$40 used. Is the levelwind up to the task? If not, I'm thinking Jigmaster. Are there any inexpensive Penn reels that would be better for this task? Thanks.
ugghhh. we use a tanacom 500 electric reel or a scotty electric downrigger. you are absolutely right about the old age thing.
Getting old sucks but not nearly as bad as not getting old.
A e-reel is easy but they run a few a few $. If you are going with a manual reel a Penn Mariner 49L would be a good low cost choice. Inches per crank is more imporntant than high gear ratio. The 4:1 210 does 25" per crank, the 4.2:1 310GTi gets 26 " per crank and the 3.5:1 49L gets 32" per crank.
I use my Scotty downriger but I have them for salmon fishing.
What are you using for decenders? I like the SeaQuilizer and keep one on a dedicated decender rod when ever fishing near the bottom.
SeaQualizer Descending Devices https://share.google/hiZiTdbNgea2wiNZr
Both the Penn 210M and Penn 310 GTi are good reels but if you must choose between them, the Penn 210M is the better option due to its more durable construction. Grouper are brutal bottom-dwellers that require heavy drag pressure (often 20 to 30+ lbs) to keep them from breaking you off in the rocks.
The 210M uses a traditional chrome-plated brass structure reinforced with metal rings. When buttoning down the drag on a grouper or any big surprise, this frame will not flex under load. The 210M is essentially a "hot-rodded" levelwind version of the legendary Penn Jigmaster. It features oversized bronze main gears and stainless pinion gears built for high-torque cranking.
The lower 4.0:1 gear ratio provides a bit more mechanical leverage (cranking power) than the 310 GTi. The 210M uses jigmaster drags while the 310 GTi uses squidder size drags.
If you are fishing shallow water for small Scamp or strawberry grouper (under 8–10 lbs), either reel spooled with 40–50 lb braid can get the job done. If you use the 210M, upgrading the drag to modern HT-100 carbon fiber washers is highly recommended.
Quote from: Surfrat on August 01, 2026, 01:38:27 AMBoth the Penn 210M and Penn 310 GTi are good reels but if you must choose between them, the Penn 210M is the better option due to its more durable construction. Grouper are brutal bottom-dwellers that require heavy drag pressure (often 20 to 30+ lbs) to keep them from breaking you off in the rocks.
The 210M uses a traditional chrome-plated brass structure reinforced with metal rings. When buttoning down the drag on a grouper or any big surprise, this frame will not flex under load. The 210M is essentially a "hot-rodded" levelwind version of the legendary Penn Jigmaster. It features oversized bronze main gears and stainless pinion gears built for high-torque cranking.
The lower 4.0:1 gear ratio provides a bit more mechanical leverage (cranking power) than the 310 GTi. The 210M uses jigmaster drags while the 310 GTi uses squidder size drags.
If you are fishing shallow water for small Scamp or strawberry grouper (under 8–10 lbs), either reel spooled with 40–50 lb braid can get the job done. If you use the 210M, upgrading the drag to modern HT-100 carbon fiber washers is highly recommended.
He is not fishing for grouper with these reels, he is using them for releasing undersized fish with a barotrama decender.
Alan, I really like the idea of an electric reel, but not in the cards right now.
Lee, the 49L sounds like the ticket. Thanks! Always forget about the Mariners as I've never owned one. I'm on the hunt now.
Surfrat, thanks for the info on the 210M. Didn't realize it's geared like a Jiggy, but with bearings and a levelwind.
Yes, using the SeaQualizer with a 3.5 or 4lb weight. Feels a lot heavier when coming up from 100 or 150' haha.
Quote from: MACflyer on August 01, 2026, 02:13:22 AMYes, using the SeaQualizer with a 3.5 or 4lb weight. Feels a lot heavier when coming up from 100 or 150' haha.
Yup., I usually send them down 150-200 feet but with a Tanacom Bull 750.
Quote from: MACflyer on August 01, 2026, 02:13:22 AMAlan, I really like the idea of an electric reel, but not in the cards right now.
Lee, the 49L sounds like the ticket. Thanks! Always forget about the Mariners as I've never owned one. I'm on the hunt now.
Surfrat, thanks for the info on the 210M. Didn't realize it's geared like a Jiggy, but with bearings and a levelwind.
Yes, using the SeaQualizer with a 3.5 or 4lb weight. Feels a lot heavier when coming up from 100 or 150' haha.
I generally stop at the halfway point , let the fish swim away.
Thanks for explaining Keta. :al When choosing a vintage Penn reel to use strictly as a dedicated fish descender reel, the Penn No. 49 Super Mariner is the superior choice.
Quote from: oldmanjoe on August 01, 2026, 11:34:07 AMI generally stop at the halfway point , let the fish swim away.
ODFW tagging studies have come up with 1/2 of the depth caught has the best survival rate. Do you use SeaQuilizers?
Quote from: Keta on August 01, 2026, 01:31:32 PMQuote from: oldmanjoe on August 01, 2026, 11:34:07 AMI generally stop at the halfway point , let the fish swim away.
ODFW tagging studies have come up with 1/2 of the depth caught has the best survival rate. Do you use SeaQuilizers?
I have both . I much prefer the open hook design , they can leave at any time . Were as the spring loaded one need a certain depth ot open .
Yes we do have another thread here on the subject , but here is a little more information .
https://returnemright.org/about-us/gear-signup/ When I did it , they sent were free .
I am a founding member and on the board of OCEAN, Oregon Coalition Educating ANglers (https://oceaned.org/). We have given away thousands of descenders including SeaQuilizers. When ODFW made them mandatory to have on the boat and ready to use people were on board and there was little resistance to the new regulations due to our effort. I prefer the SeaQuilizers and have them rigged on steel cable to keep sharks from taking them on the way down.
A 49 with a rock cod handle on a solid glass rod cut down to 4 feet or so is almost a downrigger for your purpose. put in holder and crack up with power and speed.
If you can get a 349 it is build more strongly than the 49. Maybe a 6/0 Senator? There must be loads of them around for a low price, but they are bulkier than the Mariners.
Quote from: MACflyer on July 31, 2026, 09:26:24 PMNow looking to buy a used Penn 210m or 310gti for a little more speed. Both sell for about $30-$40 used.
if you can rebuild this reel, i have an old 310 gti that i can ship to you at no charge. not sure it works and i would have have time to work on it to make sure. headed to canada tomorrow. send a pm with your mailing address today, if interested. thanks! alan
The last bottom fish I caught was hooked at about 110'. A Moana(Hawaiian Goatfish), a Carp lookin reef fish with long chin barbels. It grabbed a knife jig. Biggest I've seen yet-about 5 lbs., but for the first 1/2 of the fight I was thinkin small GT, 20lbs. or so, heck of a tug-a-war.
Then the decompression lethargy must have set-in. When released it floated on the surface until I lost sight of it, but couldn't see any signs of swim bladder bloating.
How long does it take to decompress usually? Would it be practical to allow it to sit down there at say at 50'? Could it be reeled in slowly enough to come-up and survive?
I bring fish up slowly for better survival rate . Bottlenose dolphin will change the plan in the bay . Venting usually helps , if the eyes and tongue are not hanging out . I can watch on my depth recorder when the fish swims away at times , when I use a descender rig under the boat .
Party boat fishing makes this hard to do most times .
Quote from: alantani on August 03, 2026, 03:47:38 PMQuote from: MACflyer on July 31, 2026, 09:26:24 PMNow looking to buy a used Penn 210m or 310gti for a little more speed. Both sell for about $30-$40 used.
if you can rebuild this reel, i have an old 310 gti that i can ship to you at no charge. not sure it works and i would have have time to work on it to make sure. headed to canada tomorrow. send a pm with your mailing address today, if interested. thanks! alan
Thanks Alan but I just bought a 49L on eBay. I think it should be just about right once filled with line.
Quote from: thorhammer on August 03, 2026, 01:00:59 PMA 49 with a rock cod handle on a solid glass rod cut down to 4 feet or so is almost a downrigger for your purpose. put in holder and crack up with power and speed.
Agreed. I'm putting a 49L on a XXH Reaper Rod someone threw in the trash because it's missing about 2'. Found a huge tip that fits.
Alright! Recycle the fish and the tackle.
Quote from: Gfish on August 03, 2026, 06:48:38 PMAlright! Recycle the fish and the tackle.
That's funny Gregg!
I use a 114h for descending fish.
The 49 has small drag washers, and would probly need to have star cranked down all the way, which could create problems. Sometimes 5 pounds aint enough to descend a larger fish
Quote from: oldmanjoe on August 03, 2026, 05:20:13 PMVenting usually helps
ODFW tagging studies had a zero re-catch for vented fish indicating a poor survival rate. Even with descending devices the survival rate is not great and the deeper they are caught the lower it is. They have also stopped retrieving at various depths to let the fish adjust with little success.
The habitat of our fish of concern, yelloweye rockfish, is specific and it is best to avoid fishing there.
Quote from: oldmanjoe on August 03, 2026, 05:20:13 PMVenting usually helps
ODFW tagging studies had a zero re-catch for vented fish indicating a poor survival rate. Even with descending devices the survival rate is not great and the deeper they are caught the lower it is. They have also done research on stopping the retrieve at various depths to let the fish adjust with little success and often it feeds the blue sharks. People have also lost high $ descenders to sharks, I advocate rigging them on cable.
The habitat of our fish of concern, yelloweye rockfish, is specific and it is best to avoid fishing there.
Quote from: Maxed Out on August 03, 2026, 08:19:30 PMSometimes 5 pounds aint enough to descend a larger fish
And sometimes a 8# downrigger ball isn't too.
I had a long discussion with a marine biologist. The kid insisted that repressurizing a rockfish had a high survival. I called BS from the beginning, but he insisted that the science was there.
According to ODFW taging studies there is some survival but no where near 100%. The deeper the fish are hooked the lower the survival.
The sad part is most fisherman don`t know to properly vent a fish . Some think that a knife to the stomach works .
When you do hit the swim bladder , you will hear and feel the air coming out . Don`t just stick him and pull the needle rite away either , the hole seals up pretty quick .
I will post two videos , the second one show how long it take air to vent.
Received the Mariner 49L yesterday afternoon in nice condition. Cleaned and serviced it today, added line, and mounted to my trash pick broken Reaper Rod. Should be a lot faster than the Longbeach, and not as difficult as the Squall 30.
Wish we had it yesterday instead of the Longbeach, as we caught a lot of undersize red grouper. Several showed no physical signs of barotrauma, but still needed help to recompress. We used to vent, but after seeing this article a couple years ago, we descend with the Seaqualizer we got free from Returm 'Em Right.
https://www.usf.edu/marine-science/news/2023/which-barotrauma-mitigation-method-is-best-for-red-snapper-and-red-grouper-caught-in-deep-water.aspx
"In this study, fish that were recompressed using a descending device to at least 60 feet were twice as likely to survive than those that were vented."
ODFW found zero evidence of survival of fish that were vented.
My feeling is that once you get to a certain depth, for most species once the damage is done that fish is likely a dead one, one way or another. I've had fish come up from under 50ft with clear signs of barotrauma.
Our deepwater fishery (300ft upwards kinda fishing) has no size limits on the primary species, and very low bag limits. This acknowledges that they're almost certainly dead so you may as well put them in your bin and be forced to go fish for something else.
In particular, we'll never attempt to release any fish that has obvious external protrusion from either, erm, end.
The exception to this seems to be Yellowtail. We've pulled them up from 400ft and they've been fighting fit. Must be anatomically different.
Can't help but think that tiny hemorrhages in the fishes more sensitive tissues maybe not so visible to the fisherman, might slowly kill them from the pressure damage. If the affected critter swims off after release, who's to know? The sea will take care of it. I've heard a mild squeeze on the wrong part of a fish's body while being handled for release can do the deed. Supposedly the liver can easily be damaged.
Quote from: Gfish on August 11, 2026, 07:23:01 PMCan't help but think that tiny hemorrhages in the fishes more sensitive tissues maybe not so visible to the fisherman, might slowly kill them from the pressure damage. If the affected critter swims off after release, who's to know? The sea will take care of it. I've heard a mild squeeze on the wrong part of a fish's body while being handled for release can do the deed. Supposedly the liver can easily be damaged.
I argued with a coworker about something similar as he was showing a picture of a trout that he had released, and in the pic his thumb was buried in that poor fishes gill. I said maybe don't do that if you're releasing the fish. "He swam away"
Yeah I bet I could still run away (for a short distance) with a punctured lung if I thought the monstrous creature holding me had accidentally lost their grip for a second. Doesn't mean I'm not damaged.
Trout and salmon are really sensitive to mishandling and really should be left in the water if releasing them.
ODFW tagging studies indicate there is some survival with fish suffering from barotrauma but not a high %. I think it is over 50% mortality after 24 hours.
https://myodfw.com/articles/rockfish-recompression
"DON'T VENT
Some anglers may have heard about "venting", or puncturing a fish's body or the protruding esophagus to allow gas to escape and the fish to swim down on its own. This is not recommended as it can cause serious injury or introduce infection to the fish. Keeping the fish intact and sending it down below 66 feet gives it the best chance of survival."
This study says 40%mortality after 48 hours.
https://academic.oup.com/icesjms/article/78/9/3230/6378054?login=false
This one says 50%-90% survival rate.
https://www.scienceforconservation.org/products/post-release-survival-rockfishes
Both are higher survival rate than what the ODFW observed.
Speckled trout are really sensitive to handling, even their slime coat. Replaced treble hooks with single hooks on all my lures to make their release boat side faster and easier.
Quote from: MACflyer on August 11, 2026, 09:14:11 PMSpeckled trout are really sensitive to handling, even their slime coat. Replaced treble hooks with single hooks on all my lures to make their release boat side faster and easier.
Friends don't let friends fish trebles.
:d
Have you tried barbless too? I started going barbless with saltwater flies, and am now doing it more and more with conventional gear. Much easier to release, and not much of a difference in landing vs. losing fish. The barb only helps when the line is slack.
-J
[/quote]
Friends don't let friends fish trebles.
:d
Have you tried barbless too? I started going barbless with saltwater flies, and am now doing it more and more with conventional gear. Much easier to release, and not much of a difference in landing vs. losing fish. The barb only helps when the line is slack.
-J
[/quote]
Yes J, just about all my inshore barbs are crushed in. Really haven't noticed a big difference as I lose about 1 of every 3 or 4 fish anyways 😂. Still using barbs with the circle hooks offshore.
Quote from: jurelometer on August 12, 2026, 05:01:45 PMQuote from: MACflyer on August 11, 2026, 09:14:11 PMSpeckled trout are really sensitive to handling, even their slime coat. Replaced treble hooks with single hooks on all my lures to make their release boat side faster and easier.
Friends don't let friends fish trebles.
The barb only helps when the line is slack.
-J
Or with bait. I wish barbless C hooks were more common. Barbs on a C hook are useles.
A lot of people complain about loosing salmon using the mandatory barbless hooks for them in Oregon but it is their problem not the hookks.
Quote from: Keta on August 12, 2026, 05:17:00 PMThe barb only helps when the line is slack.
Tight lines everybody and remember. fish have feelings too.
I think it's Peter Pakula that has strong feelings about barbs not being all that useful for keeping a fish on the line, but he said you have to sell the hook to the fisherman before you can hook a fish with it, and most anglers won't buy a barbless hook.
I don't but that's what a pair of pliers are sometimes for. I like a barb that becomes a raised area of the hook and I sometimes file that smoother.