Hello Fellas,
Recently aquired some old Penn Senators... A 3/0 a 6/0 two 9/0's and a 12/0... I started taking apart the 6/0 since A) I figured it was in the middle as far as size so thought it would be somewhat easier and B) it was the one that seemed in the worst of shape so I wouldn't feel so bad if I completely messed it up! Anyway, I'm not at the point yet of rebuilding so that will be another daunting task judging by some of the parts that have flown off! (first time taking on something like this btw) What I wanted to know is if anyone here knew of some upgrades for the drag washers (I think that's what they are called) I spoke to Dawn from the smoooth website but she does not have any upgrades for the old senators. I have searched high and low but have not found anything that my small brain can just say "HEY! that's what I need"! Or will I just have to settle for new original parts and call it a day? Earlier today I ordered a bunch of parts from mysticparts.com, but mostly cosmetic stuff no mechanical parts. I would also really appreciate some ideas of some other upgrades that I could do, as long as they maintain that "Vintage" look. Oh! one more thing, I have read on some other websites that some people don't think these are worth up look that they have. So, if you don't feel the same way I respect that, but please dont poop on my parade! Thanks! ;D
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Quote from: swolme on June 06, 2012, 08:59:31 PMplease dont poop on my parade! Thanks! ;D
That made me laugh.
Swolme, welcome. you will not have many hear pooping on your parade. We have had a lot of reels that were left for dead to fish another day here on this site.
If you can post some pics of your reels, it would give us a better idea how to direct you.
First, I would go to https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Conventional.aspx#Senator1 (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Conventional.aspx#Senator1). Pull the schematics based on the type of Senators you have.
Then look at the following postings to give you an idea of what you are up against.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20.0) - This is the most similar to your 3/0 in the right side plate assembly.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=208.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=208.0) - This is for your 6/0 and your 9/0.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1738.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1738.0) - and this will be the closest to your 12/0.
Feel free to ask questions. We've got some REEL PENN experts here.
Bryan
Bryan, thanks for the welcome! I will take some pics of the reels soon and post them. I will look through those posts and get back here soon! Thanks again!
Getting modern drag washers for your 3/0, 6/0 and 9/0 is simple: For the 3/0 just buy three 006 113 drag washers plus another spring washer, 008 060 for the top of the drag stack and you're all set. For the 9/0, you'll need to get a set of metal washers, 007C115, plus five carbon fiber drag washers, 006 115, and you are good to go. The 6/0 is a bit more complicated: If it is a red 114H you'll need a set of metal washers, 007C115, plus five carbon fiber washers, 006 115. If it is a black 114, you'll need six carbon fiber drag washers, 006 114, plus a set of metal washers, 007C114.
Now, if you rebuild the drag this way you'll have great reels. You can add a little by opting for a steel gear sleeve and a carbon fiber washer under the main gear but this are options and unnecessary.
Welcome Steve. This forum has the most knowledgeable, innovative, and helpful bunch of folks you will ever see on fishing reels.
If you have the old black 3/0 Senator, then I think the following link may be more helpful. After all, the 3/0 Senator is just a wide version of the 2/0.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=44.0
Bryan and Akfish offer good suggestions. Short of the drag upgrades and replacing anything that is broken, there is no real need to upgrade with fancy frames and side plates, yet. Those senators in stock form have been catching BIG BAD fish since before most of us were born. I fish with similar reels (as do many others here) and don't feel handicapped.
George
Well said George.
Steve, go ahead and start cracking those babies up. The first reel won't be easy, but when you're done, it's all downhill from there. Welcome, by the way. Sal
here is something to tempt you. i just got a shipment of stainless steel gear sleeves for the 6/0 senators. now we just need lee to make the stainless steel dogs!
Welcome aboard Steve, you will find lots of "Penn Pals" on here offering good advice regarding your upgrades. Replies 1 and 3 here cover everyting you need to get these great reels back in action.
Hi Steve
Quote from: Steve W. on June 06, 2012, 08:59:31 PM
Oh! one more thing, I have read on some other websites that some people don't think these are worth up look that they have. So, if you don't feel the same way I respect that, but please dont poop on my parade! Thanks! ;D
Here we will shovel the manure and put it where it belongs.
Quote from: alantani on June 07, 2012, 03:07:11 AM
........now we just need lee to make the stainless steel dogs!
Thanks to a loan from Sal the drawings for the larger Senator dogs are at the cutter now, as well as drawings for Jigmaster dogs.
Quote from: Keta on June 07, 2012, 02:46:14 PM
Hi Steve
Quote from: Steve W. on June 06, 2012, 08:59:31 PM
Oh! one more thing, I have read on some other websites that some people don't think these are worth up look that they have. So, if you don't feel the same way I respect that, but please dont poop on my parade! Thanks! ;D
Here we will shovel the manure and put it where it belongs.
That sounds sinister. ;D BTW Lee, congradulations on your appointment as a moderator. Alan chose wisely.
George
I'm open for jigmaster SS dogs. Now how do I alternate, double dog the jigmaster (for me, it'll be the PG 251 and PG255)???
QuoteNow how do I alternate, double dog the jigmaster (for me, it'll be the PG 251 and PG255)Huh?
Looking forward to your tutorial Bryan! ;) ;D
Steve,
You have just entered "The Twilight Zone" of fishing reel mods, knowledge, and reel pimping!!!! :) :) You will be amazed and astonished at the wealth of creativity, engineering, curator level restorations and helpful people.
Leo
Steve,
Aloha. E komo mai.
We love vintage reels. Some of us are particularly fond of Penn Senators.
Horses tend to poop on parades. Haven't noticed any horses here (except maybe "workhorses").
With regard to your "vintage", do the reels have black side plates, dark maroon, or lighter red? Do they have counter balanced handles? Do they have black/red aluminum spools? Do they have chrome plated bronze spools? Do they have three-piece spools (chrome plated brass, and there's a small "bump" where the shaft meets the side). What is the gear ratio of each (count the number of spool revolutions per turn of the handle as the old one should be in the 2.x : 1 ratio)? Is it too early for me to be asking these questions?
Thanks George, I didn't see that one. I was looking for it too...maybe I do need reading glasses...
Quote from: George4741 on June 07, 2012, 12:29:39 AM
If you have the old black 3/0 Senator, then I think the following link may be more helpful. After all, the 3/0 Senator is just a wide version of the 2/0.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=44.0
George
Quote from: akfish on June 06, 2012, 11:14:06 PM
Getting modern drag washers for your 3/0, 6/0 and 9/0 is simple: For the 3/0 just buy three 006 113 drag washers plus another spring washer, 008 060 for the top of the drag stack and you're all set. For the 9/0, you'll need to get a set of metal washers, 007C115, plus five carbon fiber drag washers, 006 115, and you are good to go. The 6/0 is a bit more complicated: If it is a red 114H you'll need a set of metal washers, 007C115, plus five carbon fiber washers, 006 115. If it is a black 114, you'll need six carbon fiber drag washers, 006 114, plus a set of metal washers, 007C114.
Now, if you rebuild the drag this way you'll have great reels. You can add a little by opting for a steel gear sleeve and a carbon fiber washer under the main gear but this are options and unnecessary.
You're the man! Thanks!
Quote from: George4741 on June 07, 2012, 12:29:39 AM
Welcome Steve. This forum has the most knowledgeable, innovative, and helpful bunch of folks you will ever see on fishing reels.
If you have the old black 3/0 Senator, then I think the following link may be more helpful. After all, the 3/0 Senator is just a wide version of the 2/0.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=44.0
Bryan and Akfish offer good suggestions. Short of the drag upgrades and replacing anything that is broken, there is no real need to upgrade with fancy frames and side plates, yet. Those senators in stock form have been catching BIG BAD fish since before most of us were born. I fish with similar reels (as do many others here) and don't feel handicapped.
George
George,
Yea I'm not a big fan of the fancy frames and crap! I like the original black! Thanks for the suggestions!
-Steve
Oh BTW today I was finally able to take off two of the outside chrome rims from the 6/0 side plates... I guess after all these years they had glued on there from all the dirt and grease and junk... Had to take a HAMMER and CHISEL to the damn thing :o :'(!!!!! Don't worry I was careful and didn't even make a scratch on them! ;D
Quote from: akfish on June 06, 2012, 11:14:06 PM
Getting modern drag washers for your 3/0, 6/0 and 9/0 is simple: For the 3/0 just buy three 006 113 drag washers plus another spring washer, 008 060 for the top of the drag stack and you're all set. For the 9/0, you'll need to get a set of metal washers, 007C115, plus five carbon fiber drag washers, 006 115, and you are good to go. The 6/0 is a bit more complicated: If it is a red 114H you'll need a set of metal washers, 007C115, plus five carbon fiber washers, 006 115. If it is a black 114, you'll need six carbon fiber drag washers, 006 114, plus a set of metal washers, 007C114.
Now, if you rebuild the drag this way you'll have great reels. You can add a little by opting for a steel gear sleeve and a carbon fiber washer under the main gear but this are options and unnecessary.
That was an amazing answer. Exactly answered the OP's really complicated question, correctly in no time flat? I work in IT, and if this were computers instead of fishing reels you guys would be filthy rich! This place is like the 24 hr virtual man shed of awesomeness.
QuoteThis place is like the 24 hr virtual man shed of awesomeness.
;) ;D
Quote from: Steve W. on June 08, 2012, 10:12:42 PM
Oh BTW today I was finally able to take off two of the outside chrome rims from the 6/0 side plates... I guess after all these years they had glued on there from all the dirt and grease and junk... Had to take a HAMMER and CHISEL to the damn thing :o :'(!!!!! Don't worry I was careful and didn't even make a scratch on them! ;D
i think what happens is that the plastic swells over the years. i've seen plenty of stuck rings. some have even split.
I had the same issues with the 14/0 I just rebuilt. The rings were a bear to get back on, but I finally got them to pop back in place and all was right with the world ;D
Good luck Steve. These guys really helped me through my first rebuild, and all the info here made it a piece of cake!
Yup, another successful assimilation, welcome to the 'Collective'! It's like watching myself all over again, and I do believe I learn something from every post.
I had to Dremel a substantial amount of material off my 9/0 plates to get new rings back on. All 4 of the old rings had cracked or actually split from the expansion.
makule - you mentioned several differences between the various Senators. Do the differences signify maybe their age or version, or just to look pretty?
Quote from: dogdad1 on July 11, 2012, 01:32:51 PM
Yup, another successful assimilation, welcome to the 'Collective'! It's like watching myself all over again, and I do believe I learn something from every post.
I had to Dremel a substantial amount of material off my 9/0 plates to get new rings back on. All 4 of the old rings had cracked or actually split from the expansion.
makule - you mentioned several differences between the various Senators. Do the differences signify maybe their age or version, or just to look pretty?
Changes were made over the years, but I don't have any information about what changes were made during which year. Either Penn company or an "antique" reel site would have that information.
Some changes, such as the different spools (i.e., 3-piece brass, to solid cast bronze, to solid aluminum, and sizes) and gears (brass to hardened steel to SS), and bushings to BB were substantive. Spool width and material were designated with the "L" (light for aluminum) and "W" (for wide). High speed ("special" Senators were given the "H" designation). Others were cosmetic. Reel handle color has been suggested as indicative of age, but that is not my information. Handle shapes are more indicative. Decoration of the side plates were also indicative of age.
Sal has a lot of information about this too and he can add to it.