I am more into light tackle, but I want one inexpensive 9/0 on the boat for a bit of shark fishing when the other bites are off.i think a Senator would be just the ticket so I am heading to Academy to pick one up in the morning. Thanks to this site I have a new found love for taking apart my reels, so I plan to take apart this Senator. When I do, can anyone recommend any upgrades or things to do to this reel to get the best performance and longjevity out of it other than the obvious lube? Cheers! J
Keta has SS dogs, Alan has SS gear sleeves, Dawn and charkbait have SS yokes, that's a pretty good start, pick up some Cals drag grease and you will be good to go, I'm sure the masters will pipe up soon!....Dan
How is the quality, and of what material are the drag washers in it?
HT100 carbon fiber. the quality of the china manufactured reels I cannot vouch for, I don't own any, so no experience with them, but here is a list of stuff that's in them.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn115L2.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn115L2.aspx)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Thanks for that. Before I go to Academy to buy the 115L2 I am going to call around and try to find an American 115L. I know that it is a long shot, although I found one online vendor selling them.
Good call! Get yourself that reel and we will help transform it into one of the best 40lb reels around.
If I do buy the L2 model, will standard 115L parts be a direct fit when the need comes?
Good question,I would not take that chance and would go for a USA model.
Why not just get a second hand reel that's USA made? Lots of used 9/0 around for sale.
I would go with these two guys above here, they know what they're talking about ;)
Quote from: suitekids on June 11, 2012, 01:35:18 AM
Keta has SS dogs, Alan has SS gear sleeves, Dawn and charkbait have SS yokes, that's a pretty good start, pick up some Cals drag grease and you will be good to go, I'm sure the masters will pipe up soon!....Dan
Just a shot of the things I mentioned above, The gear sleeve is for a 6/0 and 9/0 reel, definately a serious upgrade!!!
(http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr205/suitekids/114h%20mods/SSvsStock001.jpg)
Nice shot of the upgrades Dan, you always take some nice pictures ;).
Thanks Sal, I'll get one of the 6/0 Accurate gears in comparison too, you know the one's you get when I'm done. ;)
That photo shows the obvious quality difference of the factory vs SS parts. Will definitely do those upgrades. I see two two anti-reverse thingies (dont laugh, Im no pro here! :)). Is this reel set up to be able to use two or is a modification needed?
I tried to order a US made today and the one place that had them advertised only have L2's now so the search continues. I have had a WTB posted on 360 Tuna for weeks but have had no luck. If anyone here knows of a new or used one in good condition for sale please let me know. Worst case scenario, I will get the L2 and photograph the disassembly process so we can all benefit from knowing what Chinese made guts look like for this reel, and figure out compatibility issues.
Alto, my plan is to blaitantly be a copycat and set this reel up like you have yours. That thing is frigging sweet! I found an accuframe online but it is gold. Might just have to have the silver parts gold plated to match! ;). I think simply taking some greased lightening to it making it silver then buffing it would be smarter.
And one last dumb question.....what is the purpose of the strap thingy on the bigger senators that goes around the rod to the harness lugs on the front? I am guessing to counter the force put on the reel when fighting from a chair?
QuoteIs this reel set up to be able to use two or is a modification needed?
Modification needed. See other thread on this mod. The "thingies" are called anti-reverse dogs. Woof, woof.
Quotewhat is the purpose of the strap thingy on the bigger senators that goes around the rod to the harness lugs on the front? I am guessing to counter the force put on the reel when fighting from a chair?
The strap on the front goes around the rod, and is there to counter the pull from the top harness lugs when a shoulder or waist harness is used. Without using it, there is too much pressure applied to the reel seat.
QuoteIf anyone here knows of a new or used one in good condition for sale please let me know.
Search Craigslist using Search Tempest, or try Ebay. Be aware that there are different spools (3--piece, cast bronze, and aluminum), different bearings (BB versus bronze bushings), color side plates. Stay away from the 3-piece spools is you plan on fishing the reel (which is what you said you were planning to do). The cast bronze is the strongest and also heavier than the aluminum. BB are the newer style and probably most common.
You should be able to find a good deal in the $75 - $90 range on Clist, maybe better.
Check out http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=penn+9%2F0&_sacat=0 There are a bunch of 9/0s for sale. Dominick
Quote from: suitekids on June 11, 2012, 10:23:26 PM
Thanks Sal, I'll get one of the 6/0 Accurate gears in comparison too, you know the one's you get when I'm done. ;)
Here ya go Sal, read it and weep :'(
(http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr205/suitekids/114h%20mods/KGrHqVHJFE915bJrPBPePZ8t1Uw60_58.jpg)
Hey Suitekids: will you take care of Sal's pals (meaning moi).. Dominick
I never thought it would be so hard to get those :-\.
I spoke to Penn today. According to their service rep the 115L and L2 parts are interchangeable with the exception of the cheesy plastic part that connects to the reel seat. I am amazed that any 50# class reel would use plastic in that place. That will become irelevent when I put on the Accuframe.
Because of the interchangeability, and the fact that I had a $100 Academy gift card to blow, I bought the L2. Cost me $50. I am going to open this puppy up when my frame arrives and photograph the innards to see if you pros notice anything odd or different from the norm I should look out for. Alan has my gear sleeve on the way, but Lee is out of dogs for the time being (anyone have an extra pair to sell!?). I can machine a set if I have to. Would the specs on both dogs of a double dog set up be identical to the one currently in the reel?
You guys have been incredibly helpful and it is appreciated!
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 13, 2012, 12:52:41 AM
I never thought it would be so hard to get those :-\.
Sal, I will tell te first mate if I should meet ole Davey Jones's locker, she is to send the reel to you, the rest go to my boys, best I can do........Dan
Jason, the parts on that reel might be the same, but might be of lesser quality. I know this for a fact on the spinners, but never purchased a Senator ending with a #2. Just grease it up nicely and you should be fine. The dogs are the same as the stock, if you need them to engage at the same time, all you do is file a little off the tip of one. Here is a shot of what I'm talking about, I don't have a 9/0 opened this is a 10/0.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2431.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2425.jpg)
The gear is tilted a bit and seams like one is off, they are both engaging at the same time.
Quote from: JasonF on June 13, 2012, 12:59:32 AM
(anyone have an extra pair to sell!?). You guys have been incredibly helpful and it is appreciated!
pm me your address and I will send you a couple. Dominick
Are you telling me that you got yours before me? Time for a meeting with Lee ;D.
Stop bribing people with your cannolis...it's illegal ;D
Thanks Dominick! Ill PM you.
I want the dogs to engage alternately assuming that will cut down on the reverse.
This is what really bothers me about this reel. Four rivets through plastic is all that keeps the rod and reel in one piece. What the heck?!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/a2bcfbf5.jpg)
.......And one other question. Is the knob of this reel removeable from the handle arm without drilling? I want to put a T bar handle on and keep the factory arm.
No, you will need to drill the rivet. It's not a big deal.
QuoteFour rivets through plastic is all that keeps the rod and reel in one piece.
One assumes the rivets could be removed and replaced with bolts and nuts, but the weak link would then be the "plastic" (whatever that material actually is). Abu fastened the reel seat to the reel frame using rivets too, if I recall correctly, and had problems with the seat coming off (buy may have been due to electrolysis rather than wear).
In any case, if there is a problem, you can bet that someone here will figure out a solution. There's no lack of genius here. As the really smart guy who started this Forum has advised us, get the reel, take it apart and see what's going on. Then deal with the problems until the reel works as it should. It would be quite unusual for a reel to be "perfect" straight out of the box. If that were the case, there wouldn't be so many modifications being made (and people having fun).
Quote from: JasonF on June 13, 2012, 02:32:07 AM
.......And one other question. Is the knob of this reel removeable from the handle arm without drilling? I want to put a T bar handle on and keep the factory arm.
I vote get an after market handle. They are very good.
Quote from: JasonF on June 13, 2012, 02:12:20 AM
This is what really bothers me about this reel. Four rivets through plastic is all that keeps the rod and reel in one piece. What the heck?!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/a2bcfbf5.jpg)
This plastic (graphite?) frame worries me, too. Many of us have read reports of how some graphite reels fail when pushed much beyond 20lb drag. :o
It might be time for a different frame/reel seat. ;)
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 13, 2012, 02:05:30 AM
Are you telling me that you got yours before me? Time for a meeting with Lee ;D.
Stop bribing people with your cannolis...it's illegal ;D
They got them before I did, the first run of 115 dogs should be done this week.
Does anyone have a link to a take apart-put together thread for this reel? I am still new to this stuff and do not want to break into it for the first time without instructions.
G'day Jason,
Sal's the 'go to' guy for these big Senators.
Try these (while they're not the 115, they should do the trick):
- 116: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1792.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1792.0)
- 118: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1738.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1738.0)
Let us know if you run into any issues etc.
Good luck, Justin
Assuming that the only difference between the 9/0 and 16/0 is size, the thread for the 16/0 is just what I needed. Thanks! Now I just have to wait for the frame and SS parts to arrive.
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 13, 2012, 02:35:01 AM
No, you will need to drill the rivet. It's not a big deal.
I recently drilled a knob off of a Shimano Talica, but that was easy because the rivet was flat and had a little dent in the center so centering the bit was easy. This reel has a rounded rivet which would be more difficult. Any idea of what bit size I should use?
Quote from: JasonF on June 14, 2012, 01:20:42 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 13, 2012, 02:35:01 AM
No, you will need to drill the rivet. It's not a big deal.
I recently drilled a knob off of a Shimano Talica, but that was easy because the rivet was flat and had a little dent in the center so centering the bit was easy. This reel has a rounded rivet which would be more difficult. Any idea of what bit size I should use?
Should be either 1/4" or 5/16". File the rounded surface flat with a file and punch a starting point/hole. Then begin with a 1/8" bit and work you way up. Be very careful not to enlarge the hole.
Ok, given the fact that this reel has HT100 drag washers, all that I should do to them is a coat of drag grease to improve start up, correct? Do I need to replace/upgrade anything in the drag stack?
And btw.....I picked up a heavy Calstar Graphiter blank today for the rod. I am going to keep the rod simple, Aftco HD rollers, Alps reel seet, no slick butt and a Alps gimbal. Should look and perform well.
Got my parts except the Accuframe so I am getting started but am already stuck. How does the brass gear sleeve come off of the threaded thingy that it is on? I do not want to strip anything.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/c42118f6.jpg)
Quote from: JasonF on June 15, 2012, 09:05:42 PM
Got my parts except the Accuframe so I am getting started but am already stuck. How does the brass gear sleeve come off of the threaded thingy that it is on? I do not want to strip anything.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/c42118f6.jpg)
Jas, at the bottom of the threads there is a hole that goes thru the sleeve, look closely, there is a small pin in there, take a small punch and tap it thru the other side, and the sleeve will then slide off the shaft, to install reverse the procedure, but cleane the shft and lightly grease with marine grease, take a q-tip with some alcohol and run it thre the new sleeve till the q-tip remains white, just some cutting oil in there from being made, then just slap it together
Thanks. What about the top threaded part that the handle nut goes on? As you can see in the photo it is part of the brass sleeve but absent on the SS sleeve. Do I need to just get a bolt to install my handle?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/a3c5786c.jpg)
That's the new chinese model sleeve, you need to aquire the the old style nut/screw that screws into the SS sleeve, and you are getting another handle right?
23-116 handle screw
110-60 handle lock screw
Yep, and the sleeve went on just fine. Thanks!
it also looks to me that the top mounted thread adapter has an allen type recess, that might screw out and screw back into the new SS sleeve, provided it's not metric thread, then you can re-use your handle that came with it, otherwise you will need to replace the handle with the USA type, and get the parts I mentioned above
No, I thought the same but it is just a hole. The sleeve is hollow and non-threaded on the inside.
....and a side note for any future 115L2 owners who are putting in a steel sleeve, the pin on this reel is too tight for Alan's SS sleeve. Sand a few thousandths off the pin diameter or you will mushroom the pin.
Here is my completed double dog set up. Does it look like it will work?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/04267992.jpg)
I knew that you were pulling my leg Jasen...you're a machinist ;D.
We should send that picture directly to Penn Headquarters ;D
Very good job ;).
Sal
Far from a machinist! Thanks though. I am trying to reassemble now. Not easy. I cannot figure out how to get the dogs under spring tension without access to them since they are covered by the brass half moon shaped thingy.
Quote from: JasonF on June 15, 2012, 11:57:01 PM
Here is my completed double dog set up. Does it look like it will work?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/04267992.jpg)
Isn't the left side spring pushing the dog away instead of towards?
No. It will be under tension pointing down.
Troubleshooting time. Reminder, this is my first Senator much less first time taking one apart so forgive my ignorance! I got my right side assembled. Both dogs are engaging (sounds cool btw!). When I go in and out of freespool the eccentric looks right and the little gear in the center goes up and down like I think it is supposed to. When I assembled the reel it is not engaging in retrieve.
Any ideas?
This reel is gonna drive me to drinkin'! ???
Souds like its getting caught somewhere. Start by cutting 1/8" off the lower section of that new spring on the right and see if that helps.
Tried that. Still not engageing. I am stumped. Eveything assembles easily (once I figured out how). Freespool is smooth. Im done with this thing for tonight! >:(
also check to make sure you have the bridge screws going thru the yoke have the smooth shoulder, if not the yoke will hang up on the threads, and tighten up the star drag or the main gear will just spin, simple thing we all have done in the learning curve
OK Jason, time to get up and fix that reel bro!!!!
Yep, very nice custom work, Jason.
Quote from: JasonF on June 15, 2012, 11:57:01 PM
Here is my completed double dog set up. Does it look like it will work?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/04267992.jpg)
I also like your tabletop. ;)
Quote from: suitekids on June 16, 2012, 01:58:51 PM
OK Jason, time to get up and fix that reel bro!!!!
Funny that you say that seeing that it is 2 pm central and I just woke up!
Jason, are you using the stock yoke or a ss yoke?
It is still the stock yoke. ss should be here this week. I am going to put that in when I put in the Accuframe.
Here is a little trick to make life MUCH easier when assembling any double dog senator. Simply take two paperclips and straighten them. Bend the ends to 90 deg and put the dogs under tension. Tape the outer end in place. Install your saddle and gear sleeve. Hold in place the remove the tape removing the wires.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/01888377.jpg)
Good idea Jason.
That's a great tip Jason. Hey, maybe it will even make picture of the month :-\.
If that reel is still open, try flipping the yoke, it might help.
Thanks guys! I do not even want to admit what the problem was.....I didnt have my drag tightened down!!!! Eveything works great! Only problem is that I thought that the handle bolt from a 114 would work on this gear sleeve. Aparantly not. Was this (Alan's) gear sleeve made specifically for the 115 and if so does the 115 have its own size handle nut? I do not have one because of the configuration of the 115L2 gear sleeve.
That is funny Jason, but I'm glad that you worked it out. The handle nut is the same as the 114H.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/23-116.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/23-116.aspx)
Let me know if you want me to send you one.
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
That is odd. The one that I have here says 23-114 on it and as you can see it is drastically smaller than the hole. Is that what yours says?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/fef8bc26.jpg)
Yes, it gets a little confusing. The 23-114 will fit the 113 H
I am watching the progress of this upgrade too with interest Jason.
Jason your making that into a nice reel.
I need to send you mine !
I picked up 2 of them off ebay for pulling leadcore the first time I used one of them the clicker spring broke away from the side plate.
It appeared to have been stripped at the factory. I found a slightly larger screw and replaced it with a bit of epoxy. (thats prob not the way to fix it.) but it has worked for a year.
Your doing a good job,
thanks for posting
Danny
Thanks for the kind words. I am at a stand still on this reel until the rest of my parts get here. It is giving me a chance to work on the rod build. I went with a Calstar Boomer Jr for my blank. This is going to be a sweet custom outfit and I cannot wait to take on YFT, AJ and sharks with this puppy! All that I have left to do is 10 minutes of work putting on the Accuframe.
I wanna see photos of the finished upgraded product since i wont be the one fishin with it .
cheers Harry
Trust me, you will.
Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a SS main gear available for this reel?
no, just plain steel. :-\
Quote from: JasonF on June 17, 2012, 12:39:59 AM
That is odd. The one that I have here says 23-114 on it and as you can see it is drastically smaller than the hole. Is that what yours says?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/fef8bc26.jpg)
i missed this. what's happening ????
You might get lucky finding a ss main gear from an anniversary 114hl :-\. You know, if someone would come up with the Accurate 3.25:1 gear set, this reel would be hard to beat.
Alan, Sal solved the problem in that photo for me. I thought that the 114 handle bolt was appropriate for you sleeve. He is sending me a 116 bolt which he said is the correct thread size. No biggy.
Sal, is that a rare find? Also, would that require replacing the stock pinion as well?
I ordered my Accuframe from Berinson Tackle, and I emailed them today to see when it will be here. He said it takes 7-10 days after ordering before it ships. Bummer. I am anxious to get this reel wet. I know....I dont NEED the accuframe to fish it, just WANT it!!!:)
You should have received it by now, I mailed it on Monday morning.
About the gear, yes they are rare to find, most replace them with the brass. If you find a 114HL from the anniversary serie brand wnew, I'm sure that the gears are stainless steel. This was a short run, but the ratio is 2.8:1.
The main Penn gear will work on the 9/0, but the accurate won't, you will also need the pinion, unless we'll find a way to move the bridge 1/16" toward the pinion :-\ . I do not mind the slower ratio on this reel.
The good news for me is that my new handle and handle bolt (thanks again, Sal!) came in the mail today, the bad news is that 23-116 is identical to 23-114 as you can see in the photo below. I have no idea what the thread size is on this gear sleeve. I am heading to the hardware store now to find out.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/ea0f389c.jpg)
.....and the hardware place (a specialty fastener shop) said that either there was an error in threading the gear sleeve or that it was threaded in an odd thread. I am tired of dealing with it so I tapped it 5/16-18 and made due. The little plastic Penn bolt cover made it look not so bad.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/26eff811.jpg)
Whoever made the SS sleeve should be able to confirm the screw thread size. Well done Jason on completing this very interesting project. Good Luck with your reel.
Thanks! But not done yet, still have to put on my frame, but that is easy. I think that it was an error in the threading given the fact that there was an error on the external threads as well. They were cut in a saw tooth pattern. Since the star is made of brass the SS sleeve cut its threads in the same sawtooth. It works, but this thing has been a mess. I hope performance makes up for it.
I just started putting on a set of Aftco HD roller guides on the rod today. We are thinking about running about 75 miles offshore on Fri, so I hopefully will put her to the test!
I don't know what's going on there Jason. I tested the handle nut on my 6/0 ss sleeve before sending it to you and it worked great :-\. The 23-114 will fit the 113H, the 23-116 should work on your reel. May I ask where you purchased the ss sleeve from? The two that I have came from Alan.
Mine did as well. He mentioned that it was a test run so he only charged me 27 shipped. I assumed there may be some kinks to work out, so no big deal. Im happy with the final product and thats what matters to me.
Jason, I undestand that you're happy with the final product, but I'm still puzzled by this. You're showing the 23-114 and the 23-116 being the same size, I also have those and mine are not the same size. The 23-114 fits on a 98-320 sleeve and the 23-116 fits on a 98-114 sleeve. Oh well, as long as you're happy with the final product.
Quote from: JasonF on June 22, 2012, 12:56:17 AM
Thanks! But not done yet, still ha think that it was an error in the threading given the fact that there was an error on the external threads as well. They were cut in a saw tooth pattern. Since the star is made of brass the SS sleeve cut its threads in the same sawtooth.
It is called a Buttress thread form, made for a greater axial load in one direction, as opposed to the ISO and UN 60 degree vee form. Penn used it for that very reason in a number of reels.
I don't know which ones, or for how long, or why your star thread may differ.
.
I also had some problems with the star thread on my 113H's, but didn't think much of it. The stainless steel sleeve is much harder than the brass star, with a little force it will usually thread itself in. I'm still puzzled with those handle nuts though.
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 22, 2012, 08:51:47 AM
I also had some problems with the star thread on my 113H's, but didn't think much of it. The stainless steel sleeve is much harder than the brass star, with a little force it will usually thread itself in. I'm still puzzled with those handle nuts though.
x2 and your star will be loose if fitted to a standard brass sleeve again. :-\
Quote from: JasonF on June 22, 2012, 04:07:18 AM
Mine did as well. He mentioned that it was a test run so he only charged me 27 shipped. I assumed there may be some kinks to work out, so no big deal. Im happy with the final product and thats what matters to me.
hi, jason! i'm still buried under a ton of work, but i checked and the handle nut does fit. for the star, it's tight and it means you have to chase the threads. i actually prefer it that way. guys are generally doing this upgrade to put more pressure on the star and the entire drag stack. but the handle nut? mine fit! i can send you another.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/6/1_22_06_12_9_25_53_62741572.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/6/1_22_06_12_9_26_04_62761714.jpeg)
Trust me, im not delusional! ;D. In the photo below is both 23-114 and 23-116. As you can see they are identical. They both slide into the sleeve without having to screw them in.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/ea0f389c.jpg)
I have 100% faith that my solution of tapping and using a stainless nut will work fine. I would have waited, but I am dying to use it, which I am tommorow!! This to me is all part of working out bugs in any custom job and should be expected.
QuoteI have 100% faith that my solution of tapping and using a stainless nut will work fine.
A man wiser than me said, and another more competent than me quoted, "Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will."
If you ever get to the point when your approach didn't work, add it to the reasons why something shouldn't be done and try something else. You will have learned a lesson by the experience, and we all might learn something too.
Well said.
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 22, 2012, 06:08:51 AM
Jason, I undestand that you're happy with the final product, but I'm still puzzled by this. You're showing the 23-114 and the 23-116 being the same size, I also have those and mine are not the same size. The 23-114 fits on a 98-320 sleeve and the 23-116 fits on a 98-114 sleeve. Oh well, as long as you're happy with the final product.
x2, I don't understand it either
Who knows? Maybe he has a "special" reel. Maybe the company made a mistake and cut the threads wrong and decided to just use them with a different part to fit instead of throwing away the parts and losing money. Who knows?
As long as it works, it works, and if it breaks, it'll get replaced with the "right" part. My reels don't have the "problem", but mine are not from China either.
Albert, your comment about the reel being made in China is irrelevant to the issue that Jason was experiencing. His problem was related to a ss custom gear sleeve. It appears that Jason has it all worked out, all is good now ;).
Sure is! We did an overnight red snapper run last night. Sure enough a large hammerhead came around this morning. I had a live blue runner ready and I was rigged with cable and ready. It took about 15 seconds after dropping the bait in the water and I hooked up. He pulled a ton of line, but after 45 min or so I won. My buddy grabbed the leader and cut the cable fairly close to the circle hook. The reel performed flawlessly thanks to y'alls help tricking it out! Thanks!
......and now to finish this rod. Should have the guides all on today. Then a coat a day of finish for a week.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/b977a1cd.jpg)
I want one!!!!
Quote from: JasonF on June 23, 2012, 11:44:33 PM
......and now to finish this rod. Should have the guides all on today. Then a coat a day of finish for a week.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/b977a1cd.jpg)
OK Jason, now you gotta tell us about the new rod you're building.
No problem. It is built on a Calstar Boomer Jr blank. Dont let the Jr in its name fool you. It is one of the more powerful stand up blanks out there for 50# class tackle. The reel seat and gimbal are from Alps tackle. I chose Alps because they produce gorgeous CNCed parts instead of the cast American standards. I chose Aftco HD's for the roller guides. They arent pretty, but are effective and reliable. All components are silver instead of my normal gold to match the 115 better. I kept my wraps simple with metalic black with metalic red trim band. The only "bling" will be an abalone yellowfin tuna that I am going to place between the foregrip and stripper along with (of course) my signature in silver. Once I finish it and get my frame for the reel in I will post some good photos of my finished project.
Dammit. I thought that problems with the reel were behind me but I just found one that I cannot figure out. I am surprised that I did not spot it when I was fishing with it.
My dogs very clearly and audibly engage. If I apply any lateral pressure toward the reel the dogs go silent and I can reverse the handle. I notice a little bit of play between the gear sleeve and bridge. Obviously I dont need to push toward the reel to crank, and it works fine, but I want it perfect. Any ideas?
Also, if you are curious about my fix for the handle bolt here it is. I dont remember what that piece of hardware is called, but it is just threads with a hex hole. It basically configured the sleeve the way the chinese brass sleeve was. Works fine.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/9a300385.jpg)
And seeing that some of you doubt my issue with the penn handle bolt, check out this photo. You can see both the number and thread size. If you compare it to the photo below you can clearly see the issue. Just proving Im not COMPLETELY incompitent!!:)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/d4b77677.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/fef8bc26.jpg)
Gday Jason,
That sleeve just doesn't want to do you any favours does it?!
If you're applying lateral force to the handle/shaft, the dogs may be binding 'open' under the main gear/CF washer, especially given there's already some play.
If this is the case, a shim under the sleeve should correct it.
Good luck, Justin
PS May also want to consider replacing the sleeve... :-\
Sorry Jason, but the hole thing doesn't make sense to me. I actually don't understand how you were able to fish with that reel. As I mentioned earlier, I have two of the same ss sleeves that Alan sent me from the same batch and have no issues, but that's still beside the point. The sleeve that came with your reel is recessed at the top to accept the handle nut, the sleeve that Alan sent you is threaded to the top, to accept the star wheel. I believe that installing a nut there will work against you , how are you able to adjust the drag and keep the handle tight at the same time? About the lateral play, a little play is normal there, if you need it to be tight you could add a washer under the sleeve. As I said, I don't get the hole deal here, but maybe it's just me.
I just took another look at your picture, do you have another threaded sleeve going into the ss sleeve? I can't tell from your picture. Can you show me a picture with the handle installed? I would love to see it.
Could one of those Handle Screws (It 23) be stamped with the wrong part number?
That is exactly what I have Sal. As you can see it is now configured like the Chinese sleeve. It now required a nut rather than a bolt to hold the handle on, and the black plastic cap in a previous photo keeps the nut in place.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/82ce230f.jpg)
I see, now it makes sense to me. Did you use loctite to hold the bolt in place so it wont come lose? Very clever Jason.
Yes I used loctite blue. I also wanted to occasionally drop some reel x through to the post in the gear sleeve without complete dissasembly so I put in in the drill press and hollowed it with a 1/8" hole since the sleeve that I added is hollow except the portion where the hex wrench goes in. I hope this clarifies why I said that I am 100% confident in it. It is well thought out. That is why I made Mr Hammerhead my beeatch!!!! ;D
Quote from: suitekids on June 24, 2012, 03:07:40 AM
I want one!!!!
.....and you can have one! Buy the components, and a nice bottle of scotch and I will knock you one out! By all accounts my rods smoke factory rods. I just charge premium liquer instead of your arm and your leg!!! :D
Jason That`s a teriffic idea for holding those dogs out.
I recently double dogged a post 1972 9/0 Senator and used hands ,feet and elbows to get it assembled, fortunately I have a good deal of patience.
Maybe I missed it ,but what was the problem with operation after the final assembly?
Those full aluminum frames are great , although pricey , but I wouldn`t be overly concerned with the reel seat to frame connection strength. After all The aerospace industry uses composites successfully and our fishing rods have been made of plastic and now composits for avery long time. I for one would not go back to the old wooden or metal fishing rods.
Every thing is a compromise , Abu had some 3 and 4/0 reels with titanium frames some time ago but they were a bit heavy.Tanks though but not popular.
Have you fished your reel yet ,and how does it perform
Good luck Buzz
Hello Jason,
I just picked up on this thread and I want to thank you for sharing all of your work with us. In do so you have saved me some work.
After reading about the 23-116 handle screw not fitting in your SS sleeve I thought I better check the two SS sleeves I received from Alan this week. Just as you stated, the 23-116 handle locking screw does not fit the SS sleeve, it drops right in. When I received my SS sleeves the first thing I did was to make sure the handle and star fit OK (which they do) but I did not check the handle locking screw.
Again, thanks for sharing your project with us.
John
UPDATE: The locking screw I checked came from an older Penn 9/0 (1940's vintage). Because of the age of this reel this handle screw did not have a part number stamped on it, I assumed it was a 23-116. It seems the old Penn 9/0 locking screw is the same size as a Penn 114H handle locking screw. I checked the handle locking screw from a newer Penn 9/0 (23-116) and it does fit fine.
John
Quote from: Buzz on June 25, 2012, 01:38:19 AM
Maybe I missed it ,but what was the problem with operation after the final assembly? Have you fished your reel yet?
Yes I fished it! Had one hammerhead on it and it performed flawlessly. Drag was smooth as butter. I am not going to say that this reel outperforms my Tiagras, but I enjoy fishing with a design that is older than my father but still whips fish ####!
As for the problem, I did not spot it on the water. If I push the handle toward the reel, an unatural direction to push the handle, The dogs do not engage properly. If I crank forward like any reel is designed to be, everything works perfect. I agree with what was said before, I think that I need a shim (thin washer) between the gear sleeve and saddle.
Quote from: john2244 on June 25, 2012, 02:26:42 AM
UPDATE: The locking screw I check came from an older Penn 9/0 (1940's vintage). Because of the age of this reel this handle screw did not have a part number stamped on it, I assumed it was a 23-116. It seems the old Penn 9/0 locking screw is the same size as a Penn 114H reel. I checked the handle locking screw from a newer Penn 9/0 (23-116) and it does fit fine.
John
This clears up alot of confusion. Thanks for sharing it. I must have one of the older 116 bolts.
Not really, I still don't get it why you would have a brand new reel with an older type handle screw :-\ .
Here is the explanation on the handle screw for the 115. read the bottom part.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/23-116.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/23-116.aspx)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Dammit Sal, you ruined my moment of clarity!! ;). Atleast I am not the only one to have a bolt labeled 116 that slides into this sleeve. I give up!!
And BTW Sal, you mentioned having used a washer under your sleeve in your 9/0 thread. You dont happen to remember the specs of that washer do you?
G'day Jason,
Sal may have some specific measurements but, in the interim, thickness will depend on the amount of play you're trying to correct.
ID will be slightly larger than the bridge post.
OD will be equal to or slightly smaller than the instep of the ratchet teeth.
This may be of some assistance: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2417.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2417.0)
Good luck, Justin
Quote from: john2244 on June 25, 2012, 02:26:42 AM
UPDATE: The locking screw I checked came from an older Penn 9/0 (1940's vintage). Because of the age of this reel this handle screw did not have a part number stamped on it, I assumed it was a 23-116. It seems the old Penn 9/0 locking screw is the same size as a Penn 114H handle locking screw. I checked the handle locking screw from a newer Penn 9/0 (23-116) and it does fit fine.
John
phew! glad it worked!
Quote from: redsetta on June 25, 2012, 04:01:34 AM
G'day Jason,
Sal may have some specific measurements but, in the interim, thickness will depend on the amount of play you're trying to correct.
ID will be slightly larger than the bridge post.
OD will be equal to or slightly smaller than the instep of the ratchet teeth.
This may be of some assistance: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2417.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2417.0)
Good luck, Justin
X2, good explanation Justin.
Don't get too upset Jason, I'm liking what I see from you ;).
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 25, 2012, 10:39:41 AM
Don't get too upset Jason, I'm liking what I see from you ;).
I'm also liking what I see. You're looking outside of the box.
George
never knew about the 114h. if a reel was missing a handle nut, i'd just reach into the parts box and grab one that fit. never paid attention to the number stamped on it. :-\
see, this is why it's nice having you guys around! ;D
Thanks for saying that George and Sal. Problem solving and improvising are what make things like what we are doing here fulfiling.
As far as the recent problem goes, I knew that I did not want anything too thick to remove the play in the sleeve so I dremeled an increase in the ID of a Shimano dartanium drag washer. It was just what the doctor ordered and the dogs now engage no matter what direction I push or pull.
Had similiar problem on my 115 with .0205 sleeve end play.
I found a washer that was good for I.D. and O.D. , a bit thick but rubbed it doen to .017 on a diamond impregnated stone.Very smooth with just enough clearance
Buzz
Very clever Buzz, thanks for sharing.
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 23, 2012, 08:48:37 PM
Albert, your comment about the reel being made in China is irrelevant to the issue that Jason was experiencing. His problem was related to a ss custom gear sleeve. It appears that Jason has it all worked out, all is good now ;).
Forgive me. I was not referring to the sleeves, but to the bolt that hold the handle onto the sleeve. If this is not relevant, than I clearly do not understand what the problem was/is.
Gotcha! ;)
Albert, you're as sharp as my stone mason trowel...and that's sharp.
I finally got my Accuframe delivered. I have never seen one in person and am very impressed.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/d5bef5ca.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/0f8cbeee.jpg)
Now you have a BEAST Jason. Very nice.
QuoteNow you have a BEAST Jason. Very nice.
x2 - well done mate.
Now let's put it to work. ;) ;D
Cheers, Justin
Quote from: redsetta on July 05, 2012, 09:06:09 PM
QuoteNow you have a BEAST Jason. Very nice.
x2 - well done mate.
Now let's put it to work. ;) ;D
Cheers, Justin
x3, good job!
Even the cat digs it! Im taking this puppy out tommorow. Cannot wait!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/JasonF/824a79ab.jpg)
Great job Jason, give us a full report.
My 9/0 is my favorite reel so far, it is only 40oz heavier than my 114WEX and 65oz heavier than a 114h.
The weight of my 9/0 comes in at 3.65lb, but I have a nice heavy duty handle on it. I'm actually going to recommend that you get yourself one, you'll be amazed, you could use the one that you have on a smaller reel. If you're interested here is where I get mine from, the seller made them to my specs:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-C-M-HANDLE-FIT-PENN-REEL-114H-6-0-OR-9-0-DAIWA-600H-/110873884477?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d099373d
Quote from: Bryan Young on July 05, 2012, 08:12:22 PM
Now you have a BEAST Jason. Very nice.
Ditto on that! Now you should add beastly drags, such as a 1+7.
Jason, how many screws hold the right sideplate on the frame? Are there other screws under the beauty ring? I see only 5.
George
Sal, I do agree with the fact that your handle looks rugged. I love the arm but the jumbo grip feels weird even though I have large hands. I am going to see if he can sell just the arm and I will put on my standard T-bar handle.
George, there are in fact only 5 screws on this 9/0. The frame has more holes that I am not using. Did older 9/0's use more screws?
And why the hell did no one tell me that I drag options?!?! Dam y'all I thought I was done with this project!! ;)
Can someone explain the 1+7 drag compared to what came with the reel?
Cheers! J
Alrightee Jason,
Several of us have been mulling this 1+7 drag thing over for a while. It's part of the evolutionary modifications that have been occuring to the 114H on this forum. I think Sal started this by combining most of these ideas into one reel. You know, Accurate or Tib frame, double dogs, stainless everything, Accurate gears, and so on. Basically, turning it into a MONSTER.
See the post on the 1+7 drags here:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=4627.0
The drags are still in the developmental stage and so far I'm not entirely happy with what I have. However, it shows promise. I have some other ideas in the works and I'll post the results later.
George
BTW the older 9/0 reels have 8 screws holding the sideplate on.
Thanks George. I just finished reading that thread and it cleared this up for me. If the only advantage is an increase in max drag, I am going to stick with the original set up. I can see an application for that set up though. If I were using this reel in a deep drop for swords or large grouper set up using braided line it would be golden. I am using 60 pound Suffix mono with a typical bite no deeper than a few hundred feet. I have no need for that much drag, especially in a stand up harness....scary. I just want a smoooth 20# of drag.
Quote from: JasonF on July 06, 2012, 02:24:06 AM
Sal, I do agree with the fact that your handle looks rugged. I love the arm but the jumbo grip feels weird even though I have large hands. I am going to see if he can sell just the arm and I will put on my standard T-bar handle.
George, there are in fact only 5 screws on this 9/0. The frame has more holes that I am not using. Did older 9/0's use more screws?
And why the hell did no one tell me that I drag options?!?! Dam y'all I thought I was done with this project!! ;)
Can someone explain the 1+7 drag compared to what came with the reel?
Cheers! J
Jason, leave your handle as is, the standard T knob won't look right with that handle.
Quote from: JasonF on July 06, 2012, 03:30:14 AM
Thanks George. I just finished reading that thread and it cleared this up for me. If the only advantage is an increase in max drag, I am going to stick with the original set up. I can see an application for that set up though. If I were using this reel in a deep drop for swords or large grouper set up using braided line it would be golden. I am using 60 pound Suffix mono with a typical bite no deeper than a few hundred feet. I have no need for that much drag, especially in a stand up harness....scary. I just want a smoooth 20# of drag.
Jason, it's not just about additional #'s, it should also help with smoothness
BTW from the 4/0 to the 12/0, all have 8 screws young and old.
I think only your reel made in China has 5. I'm hoping that you won't experience any problems with that.
The screws for that reel cost about $1 a piece shipped, if they sell 1000 reels they just made an easy $6000.... did I do that right? Anyway, Just a thought ...not knocking anyone here.
Nice morning on the water. We ran about 1.5 hrs out. I was hoping to hook something worthy of this outfit, but my only takers (cobia & snapper) were taken on light tackle.
As for the lack of screws goes, I feel that I should maximise the strength between the side plates and the frame, so I am going to drill and tap additional holes. I am going to put another between each of the existing screws.
QuoteMy 9/0 is my favorite reel so far
Totally agree with Sal on this. The 9/0 is my favorite also. Only problem I ever had with one was when a large hammerhead shark distorted the frame after a long fight.
QuoteAnd why the hell did no one tell me that I drag options?!?!
Modification of reels is an ongoing process. Our job is to post our experiences and your job is to read what's posted. You can choose what you want to do and what you don't. You can even decide to do something totally new, that none of us has thought of (and when you do, please share). Especially with increasing the number of brake disks, that's a relatively new issue and, no one wants to recommend something that's not yet "proven". The issues of concern include whether the thinner CF disks will hold up (I think they will), whether the drive train will suffer (it might, depending on what materials they are made of), and whether there is a practical limit to how much drag the frame and spindle/shaft can handle (it's possible that the spindle might distort enough under extreme pressure so that the spool starts to rub against the frame). No one wants to be accused of causing another's reel to fail or be damaged. No one wants to hear, "And why the hell did no one tell me that increasing the drag was going to break my ...".
Well said, and understood! Since I have installed SS yoke, SS double dogs and a SS gear sleeve I do have more faith in the reel to push its limits. From my limited knowledge I se the week link being the brass bridge, main and pinion. That is what is fun about this project....making a $150 reel a great. I have Tiagras, Talicas, Trinidads and Calcuttas but have not had this much fun tricking them out.
Quote from: JasonF on July 06, 2012, 05:19:41 PM
Nice morning on the water. We ran about 1.5 hrs out. I was hoping to hook something worthy of this outfit, but my only takers (cobia & snapper) were taken on light tackle.
As for the lack of screws goes, I feel that I should maximise the strength between the side plates and the frame, so I am going to drill and tap additional holes. I am going to put another between each of the existing screws.
Additional holes will be unnecessary to screw the side plates and the frame. The additional holes were for the posts, reel seat, cross bar,... that is now all integrated into one piece. Those 5 are sufficient. If you have ever looked at Accurates, the sideplate is held on with 4 tiny screws, and they have yet to have a problem, and they are fishing with 65# and 80# spectra. You've got plenty of holding power. To sheer a screw under tension is difficult. Try curring it with a pair of side cutters, you will know what I mean. Stop the drilling, stop the drilling.
Hello Jason
I suppose you could find steel gears. I have an old post 1972 ball bearing 9/0 and it has steel gears, although they are not stainless and certainly do not have the nice feel of brass/bronze gears.
The newer marine bronze alloy now being used is much stronger than what was being used years ago.
I will replace mine with bronze if they ever go. the smoothness is so much better and these are not stainless anyway.
Good fishing Buzz
You are right Buzz, the newer brass gears are stronger and smoother than the old brass, but, I still like steel gears. My upgraded 9/0 has steel gears, not as smooth as brass but much stronger. About a month ago I decided to do a little test for myself. I soaked some steel gears ( not stainless steel ) individually in water for a couple of weeks and air dried for a couple of days, I also placed a cut nail in another cup, this is what I found:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2567.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2569.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2570.jpg)
There was very little rust on some of the gears, that I could berely notice, I was surpriced.
I just want to mention that the gears were cleaned prior to the test...no oil or grease.
On that particular reel, I recommend steel gears, just grease them up nicely and you should be ok.
Quote from: Makule on July 06, 2012, 05:57:46 PM
QuoteAnd why the hell did no one tell me that I drag options?!?!
Modification of reels is an ongoing process. Our job is to post our experiences and your job is to read what's posted. You can choose what you want to do and what you don't. You can even decide to do something totally new, that none of us has thought of (and when you do, please share). Especially with increasing the number of brake disks, that's a relatively new issue and, no one wants to recommend something that's not yet "proven". The issues of concern include whether the thinner CF disks will hold up (I think they will), whether the drive train will suffer (it might, depending on what materials they are made of), and whether there is a practical limit to how much drag the frame and spindle/shaft can handle (it's possible that the spindle might distort enough under extreme pressure so that the spool starts to rub against the frame). No one wants to be accused of causing another's reel to fail or be damaged. No one wants to hear, "And why the hell did no one tell me that increasing the drag was going to break my ...".
Albert, thanks for emphasizing that. Jason, the following disclaimer is directed at everyone who is considering a 1+7 drag mod. Penn recommends a maximum of 22-23 lbs drag pressure on their 114H and 115 reels. We're talking about doubling that. Sal's super tank 114H will probably take this drag pressure, and he knows what he is getting in to. A stock Penn won't hold up long, if at all, when abused this way. I'm just playing around with some ideas and if I break my reel, then it is on me. I can't be responsible for another person's broken reel. After all, "a man's got to know his limitations" and that goes for his reels, too. ;) ;D
Correct, but PUSHING limitations of tackle is one of my favorite aspects of angling. I am the first to throw a topwater at a school of yellowfin tuna with a baitcaster. If it breaks....thats the price to pay for that satisfaction! No one will hold you responsible for broken tackle!! ;)
QuoteOn that particular reel, I recommend steel gears, just grease them up nicely and you should be ok.
The old gears were made of hardened steel. Not stainless, but probably stronger than stainless from the standpoint of tensile and shear strength. Not as smooth as bronze or brass because those have a softer surface and will "self lubricate" to some extent (not like hardened steel).
QuoteStop the drilling, stop the drilling.
:) Sounds like an "environmentalist" fighting oil drilling.
QuotePUSHING limitations of tackle is one of my favorite aspects of angling.
Mine too.
George, you're going to need to relax a bit ;D. We're not selling anybody anything, we're simply giving our ideas...in which it could be good or bad.
This whole thing is experimental, if some can't take the heat, they need to stay out of the kitchen.
As I mentioned before, Bryan came to me with the idea of 1+7 over a year ago. We had phone conversations and back and forth emails about it, we didn't put it out because we were trying to figure out if it was better to go with thin metal washers or thin carbon fiber washers, well it was actually his idea. We were also trying to figure out if the gears could take it. This is what it's all about George, pushing it to the limit, and yes, we will know when we've reached that point ;).
I don't believe anyone can hold us responsible if their reel fails, it would be like telling someone to bang their head against a wall.
Dominick?
If I was looking to make money, I would have put a video of the double dogs out on youtube, or try to sell my idea....it would have been different then, but I would have definitely put out a disclaimer.
It's all about having fun with this stuff George, don't ever give up.
Sal
Quote from: JasonF on July 07, 2012, 04:12:03 AM
Correct, but PUSHING limitations of tackle is one of my favorite aspects of angling. I am the first to throw a topwater at a school of yellowfin tuna with a baitcaster. If it breaks....thats the price to pay for that satisfaction! No one will hold you responsible for broken tackle!! ;)
Well said Jason! ;)
Quote from: Makule on July 07, 2012, 05:25:19 AM
The old gears were made of hardened steel. Not stainless, but probably stronger than stainless from the standpoint of tensile and shear strength. Not as smooth as bronze or brass because those have a softer surface and will "self lubricate" to some extent (not like hardened steel).
Quote
I have an oldie with steel gears that actually feels smoother than the newer models :-\.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2580.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2583.jpg)
Wow! That is revealing on the steel gears.I wonder what the alloy is ?
Mine are ferous metal,not ss, and are magnetic. I would be hesitant to subject them to that sort of test,so they are well greased.
Do you think that with bronze gears and gear sleeve that the sleeve or gear would go first?
I believe I would wager sleeve would round off before gear,then again I may have been mistaken before.
I`ll leave ot to AM to do the destructive stress testing.
Very interesting!
Buzz
I can't answer what those gears are made of, I simply don't know. I do know that they're not ss, mine are also magnetic. I've seen gear sleeves rounding off first, I don't know what would happen with the ss sleeve though. Looking forword to your report, don't be so sure that the reel will get domaged, the 9'0 has caught some monster fish in the past. A lot of times twisting of the frame fries the gears, a full frame would help. Good luck tomorrow Buzz.
Quoteit was actually his idea.
Translation: Bryan made me do it.
QuoteI wonder what the alloy is? Mine are ferous metal,not ss, and are magnetic.
Do you think that with bronze gears and gear sleeve that the sleeve or gear would go first?
I believe I would wager sleeve would round off before gear
It was probably the same hardened steel alloy used in other gears. Don't think it was anything extra special since the pressure on those gears was not extraordinary (the drag provides slippage, whereas other machines with gears involved often do not have any slippage).
Even the hard SS are magnetic.
You'd lose the wager. I've had at least one steel gear stripped on a "freight train" while the sleeve remained intact.
QuoteI have an oldie with steel gears that actually feels smoother than the newer models.
Count on my good buddy, Sal, to bring up the exception to the rule (but he is correct, especially as the gears become broken in).
Quoteif some can't take the heat, they need to stay out of the kitchen
Good point. Will remind my wife.
Quoteit would be like telling someone to bang their head against a wall
I can do that. Might be fun.
QuoteI would have definitely put out a disclaimer
"Disclaimer: Bryan made me do it." ;D
Quote from: Makule on July 07, 2012, 04:59:10 PM
Quoteit was actually his idea.
Translation: Bryan made me do it.
I'm a big boy Albert, no need to hide behind abyone ;D, my intention was to give credit were its due. Bryan is a smart guy ;).
BTW Albert, if there wasn't anything special in those gears, could you explane why they didn't rust, as the cut nail did?
Had a thought the other day about the Chineese 9/0 's about the number of screws they had and i imediatly thought of this thread, lucky they are in the same positions ayyy?
Nice going Jason it looks great !
Sal is that an old 10/0? the picture on the sideplate looks different, the marlin looks bigger /fatter, boat is different and so is the water , much more detailed or am i just hilusinating?
cheers Harry
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 07, 2012, 05:54:32 PM
Quote from: Makule on July 07, 2012, 04:59:10 PM
Quoteit was actually his idea.
Translation: Bryan made me do it.
I'm a big boy Albert, no need to hide behind abyone ;D, my intention was to give credit were its due. Bryan is a smart guy ;).
BTW Albert, if there wasn't anything special in those gears, could you explane why they didn't rust, as the cut nail did?
Always good to get a rise out of Sal.
Yes, the steel that the gears are made of is high quality, with a very precise alloy content. It's conceivable that there is a very small chromium content (not as much are even hardened SS, which has less than high corrosion resistance, but softer, SS) as well, since corrosion resistance would have been desirable too. Nails, on the other hand, are generally made with whatever cheap steel is available. If you've been around long enough, you know that the nails of today are not as good as nails made 50 years ago. It's because the steel has changed to inferior stuff due to economics. Nails are usually put in place, many at a time, to hold things. Consequently, a failure of one (or several) isn't usually disastrous. Gears cannot have "weak links" and must be made consistent and consistently strong. A failure of even one tooth of one gear can lead to catastrophic damage (or plant shutdown) so their quality must be significantly higher.
QuoteSal is that an old 10/0?
While not Sal, I do know that the reel shown is a vintage 10/0. If you look at the counterbalanced handle, and the 3-piece spools, that immediately indicates the early manufacture.
We have digressed a bit from
QuoteWhat to do with a new Penn 115L2
. My apologies.
I could never get too upset with you Albert, you already know that.
Yes Harry, that is a 10/0...good eye ;).
After all this I wonder the point of ss gears if they are not marine grade, know there many ss alloys,some rust quite readily and many are not as good as other steels for the purpose of gears.
If some steel gears go, purportedly because os frame flex I would prefer a rigid frame and marine bronze gears.
ABU it seems has for years made this a major advertiseing point.
Maybe someone will step up to titanium.
buzz
Quote from: Buzz on July 07, 2012, 10:51:55 PM
After all this I wonder the point of ss gears if they are not marine grade, know there many ss alloys,some rust quite readily and many are not as good as other steels for the purpose of gears.
If some steel gears go, purportedly because os frame flex I would prefer a rigid frame and marine bronze gears.
ABU it seems has for years made this a major advertiseing point.
Maybe someone will step up to titanium.
buzz
My thinking is that hardened steel gears would outlast marine bronze in terms of strength, and may be better than hardened SS. Marine bronze may be the best in terms of corrosion resistance.
You know, everything is a matter of compromise. SS can be had in very corrosion resistant alloys, hardenable alloys, and in between. Restaurant grade sheets (used in kitchens) are very corrosion resistant, but aren't very hard (wouldn't work for gears). Spring stainless (e.g., 440C) is hard, but does rust (but is still a stainless). Used for knives. You then move to much harder alloys that don't wear (but may be brittle), and rust much faster because of the higher carbon content.
The more "exotic" (i.e., less commonly used) the alloy, the higher the cost (usually). The question is, "When is enough, enough". Compared to what's currently being used, perhaps there are better gear materials available (I'm quite sure there are). The other issue, however, is what cost the consumer is willing to pay. Right now, hardened, high speed SS gears for the 113H can be had for about $80 retail. Most consider that to be high. However, what if someone came out with a comparable gear set that had much better corrosion resistance (like ceramic), and 4x the strength (essentially unbreakable). Would $150 per set be reasonable? In my view, what is currently available is good enough, so "better" isn't necessary (unless better also means less expensive, then it become more desirable).
As far as titanium, I don't know that much about it. What I do know is that there is confusion about its characteristics. For example, some say that titanium is stronger than steel. It may be "stronger" (there are different kinds of strength such as tensile, yield, elongation, flex, etc) by weight, but according to one webpage (easy summary),
QuoteSteel is used where there is a need for a hardened material, like axles for cars or trucks, whereas titanium structures do not guarantee longevity and have a fatigue limit. Certain claims by marketing associates and companies gave way for the controversy to rise that titanium is stronger than steel, but unlike the claim, the best steel is stronger than titanium alloys.
In other words, titanium has its advantages and uses. For high stress applications, like gears, it's probably not as good a material as hardened steel.
Again, we digress...
Quote from: JasonF on July 06, 2012, 02:24:06 AM
Sal, I do agree with the fact that your handle looks rugged. I love the arm but the jumbo grip feels weird even though I have large hands. I am going to see if he can sell just the arm and I will put on my standard T-bar handle.
Cheers! J
Just an FYI, but the handle from a Sealine 600h will fit the 114H/115 and is only $7.99 here: http://stores.tunasreeltroubles.com/-strse-210/DAIWA-747-dsh-4111-HANDLE/Detail.bok
and $10.35 from Daiwa. It's a 2 position handle and is about an inch or so longer than the Penn Handle. Drill the knob off and use your T-bar
I just wanted to give an update on this project. 9 months since I started this project and I have not been offshore without it. Countless yellowfin, blackfin, sharks and even a 150ish pound (released) blue marlin have been taken on it. I have always kept the drag at 20#. It has performed flawlessly (except an annoying handle). I have mostly used it when chunking but it has been in the trolling spread quite a bit. Trolling with a star drag is different for me. I have zero regret in the time that I put into it, In fact I (luckily) got another 9/0 Accuframe and plan to build a second! Now that winter is winding down I am going to service it, to include the 7+1 drag upgrade not for an increase in set drag, but for performance at the current setting as I have no intent of using braid.
I honestly enjoy the nostalgia of Senators enough to compensate for what they lack in performance. To do the old school reel justice I am building old school rods for them with wood butt sections, no roller guides and other uneccesary details from grandpa's day.....but built on Calstar Graphiter blanks to compensate for weight (and make them cool!).
Thanks again for the help that you guys have given me. Your input directly resulted in equipment that has given me countless days of enjoyment!
Cheers! J
Jason,
It's good to hear you are using and enjoying it. As you are showing, they are very capable reels. One of my friends always brings his 9/0 when we fish for albacore and gets lots of attention, too.