I have an old Penn 113H Senator 4/0 Special (red sides) that I cleaned up today. When I disassembled the drag system there were only three thick drag washers made of a hard fibrous material. I thought about going with the carbontex washers from Cal's so looked at the PENN schematics. I see the 113H is supposed to have five washers and the 113 only has three, like mine. Is my 113H an earlier reel that didn't come with the 5 drag washers? After reading a couple threads here I see the 113 has black sides. It looks like I am going to have to buy the whole set of drag washers and metal washers for my reel to upgrade. Can someone tell me if I am on the right track? Thanks.
John
Quote from: myphoenix2301 on September 26, 2012, 01:41:31 AM
It looks like I am going to have to buy the whole set of drag washers and metal washers for my reel to upgrade. Can someone tell me if I am on the right track? Thanks.
John
Yes you are.
Thanks Keta.
For what it's worth, some of the 113h's I picked up off ebay had 3 washer drags. Some of them also had a steel main gear, and the slots that the eared washers fit in didn't go all the way down the gear so the 5 washer stack wouldn't fit.
Quote from: seaeagle2 on September 26, 2012, 02:36:48 AM
For what it's worth, some of the 113h's I picked up off ebay had 3 washer drags. Some of them also had a steel main gear, and the slots that the eared washers fit in didn't go all the way down the gear so the 5 washer stack wouldn't fit.
And if any of those guys want to get rid of their steel gears, I'll take them off of their hands. ;)
Quote from: George4741 on September 26, 2012, 03:01:46 AM
And if any of those guys want to get rid of their steel gears, I'll take them off of their hands. ;)
Me too.
My wife was after me cause the number of boxes being delivered to her office was vastly outnumbering the number getting picked up. So I took what was left after I built up my lightweight 113h tanks, made up a couple reels and sold them, and guess where the steel gears ended up...... I spaced and didn't even mention it in the listings so somebody got a unexpected bonus....
I guess I had better look again at the main gear to see if the slots go deep enough. I may have to stick with the 3 drag system. I have seen a 3-drag set from Smooth Drag on eBay. Are those any better than the original drag discs?
I would get the 5 stack HT-100 set (including metal washers) and use the extra washers as spacers. It will be much better than the smoothies. Option will be to purchase the same in Carbontex.
Thanks Bryan. I have an inquiry in to SmOoOth Drag.
You can carefuly grind the slots with a Dremel.
No need to grind the slots, fourth washer from the bottom is eared.
MP,
Decades ago I changed out the drag stack in my 113HN's from 5+1 to the thick 3+1 cause my reel guy said it was better than the HT-100's that came with the reel. Well, since I TANKED these two reels I replaced the original 5 HT-100 drags and metal washers (yes I held on to them for close to 30 years and Im not "anal" just "frugal and resourseful". This is probably what happened in your case as well.
Leo
Ok, thanks guys. It sounds like there is only one "eared" metal washer in the 5 carbontex disc system. I guess I was thinking of my two 321 GTi reels that have two eared metal washers. I will see what SmOoOth Drag says but I think it will be worth checking out the 5 carbontex system for my reel.
Quote from: myphoenix2301 on September 26, 2012, 11:20:19 PM
It sounds like there is only one "eared" metal washer in the 5 carbontex disc system.
There is 2 eared metal washers in a 5+1 drag sack, Sal was counting the CF and metal washers. I would not hesitate to convert a 3 drag stack to a 5+1 stack, the 7+1 hasn't had enough time for me to recommend.
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 26, 2012, 08:11:36 PM
No need to grind the slots, fourth washer from the bottom is eared.
I was thinking about the 7+1 stack with thinner washers.
I went ahead and bought the 5+1 carbontex drag set and thin metal drag set from Dawn at SmoOOoth Drag. I used the original main gear even though the ear grooves didn't go to the bottom. I put the drag washer-keyed metal washer-drag washer-keyed metal washer in first and then followed by the alternate drag washers and eared metal washers, then topped with the final keyed metal washer. Put everything back together and it worked just fine.
John
Hello John, you probably lost some drag with that configuration, one of the bottom two washers is probably not doing much if anything :-\.
Oops. Well maybe I will have to get the Dremel out or look into buying a new gear. Thanks for the info.
That gear will be fine with the 1+5, just drop in one of the thicker keyed washer first and proceed with the thinner ones.
Also, there isn't anything wrong with using the reel the way you have it set up, you just won't get the full drag range, but you could certainly use it.
John, if you are concerned about the grooves not machined deep enough, here is a simple way of checking. Place a carbontex, keyed, and carbontex in the gear and eyeball it. You'll be able to see if the grooves are deep enough for the first eared washer. If so, then you can install them in the correct order, ie: carbontex, keyed, carbontex, eared, carbontex, keyed, carbontex, eared, carbontex, keyed. I have a new gear and even though the grooves aren't machined all the way to the bottom, they are more than adequately deep.
You might as well try to wring the most drag possible out of a 1+5 stack. Give it a try and let us know what you find.
George
Thank you guys. I will try the recommendations w/o firing up the Dremel. I appreciate your help.
John
Another option is to bend the ears of the eared washer up slightly to it will sit more flush with the bottom of the gear if the slots were not deep enough.
I used one of the original thick metal discs as was suggested. Works fine. I checked the depth of the grooves in the gear and they weren't quite deep enough. This time I worked on the drag discs w/o disassembling the reel. Much easier. Thanks again.
John
Quote from: myphoenix2301 on October 16, 2012, 05:28:14 PM
Thank you guys. I will try the recommendations w/o firing up the Dremel. I appreciate your help.
John
With the 1+5 washer set up you will not have to grind the groove. It's only for the unproven 1-7 drag stacks that the shallow grove becomes a problem.
The gear stack should be keyed, CF, eared, CF, keyed, CF, eared, CF, keyed.
Quote from: Keta on October 21, 2012, 01:33:13 AM
With the 1+5 washer set up you will not have to grind the groove. It's only for the unproven 1-7 drag stacks that the shallow grove becomes a problem.
Lee, you are right. I doublechecked my 113H and found the same thing. However, I won't need to dremel my main gear. when I place a thicker HT100 in the gear first, then keyed, thin carbontex, eared, thin carbontex, keyed, so on, it works. I'm able to install a 1+7 drag stack and all fits without the dreaded dremel. ;) Others could find that their mileage may vary.
George
Quote from: George4741 on October 21, 2012, 07:04:27 PM
[ when I place a thicker HT100 in the gear first, then keyed, thin carbontex, eared, thin carbontex, keyed, so on, it works. I'm able to install a 1+7 drag stack and all fits without the dreaded dremel. ;) Others could find that their mileage may vary.
George
On my 1+7 349H reels I used thick Carbontex, thick keyed, thick Carbotex, thin eared, thin Carbontex, thin keyed, thin Carbontex, thin eared, thin Carbontex, thin keyed, thin Carbontex, thick eared, thick Carbontex, thick keyed.