Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: broschro on November 01, 2012, 12:59:49 AM

Title: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: broschro on November 01, 2012, 12:59:49 AM
what can i do to hot rod this bad boy?
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on November 01, 2012, 01:06:51 AM
Trade it for a 349 Master Mariner ;D

A SS gear sleeve and CF drag washers are a good start.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: George4741 on November 01, 2012, 01:44:10 AM
Quote from: Keta on November 01, 2012, 01:06:51 AM
Trade it for a 349 Master Mariner ;D


X2 ;D

In addition to what Lee suggested, a Newell reel foot and spacer bars, an aluminum spool, and a Penn power handle.
  George

Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Ron Jones on November 01, 2012, 06:44:50 AM
Speaking of the 349, I understand it is basically a narrow 6/0. Will a stainless 6/0 gear sleeve fit the 349 bridge?

Ron
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on November 01, 2012, 02:57:23 PM
The 349H is close but not quite a 114HNN, the 114 is a stronger reel.  

I have been using 113H gear sleeves when upgrading the drag stacks to 5+1 and 7+1.

Back to the 49L.
I don't have one yet but I'm working on a few trades, a friends grandson has one he will not trade a 113H or 349H for.  I want at least one for a teaser reel.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: broschro on November 01, 2012, 05:13:03 PM
Can I upgrade the stack? Also what ss sleeve do I order? Thanks
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on November 01, 2012, 05:42:23 PM
Yes, you might have to use HT-100 or resize Carbontex washers if Dawn does not make them for the 49 but they are similar to most Penn reels.  The gear sleeve is the same as the 500/112H, Penn part #98-60, they should be available from Alan.

Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: broschro on November 01, 2012, 06:30:37 PM
Thanks Keta.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Alto Mare on November 01, 2012, 07:54:55 PM
Broschro, I would keep 1+3 stack in the 49. If you fish that reel harder than intended, I'm sure something will give. I believe the 49 wasn't designed right. The drags on the 49 are just as big as the 6/0 and 9/0, they're 1/16 smaller, but the ID is also smaller making them the same, as for coverage, the gear sleeve is a jigmaster sleeve....that should tell you something right there. I've seen the tip of the sleeve get dameged and  I've also seen the sleeve post itself get lose on the plate on those.
I was trying to fit the 349 bridge in there, but the screw holes don't line up. Maybe someone could spot weld the existing holes and redrill. I'm not doing it because I'm not interested. In my opinion the 114H narrow is a much better reel than the 49 and 349.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on November 01, 2012, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on November 01, 2012, 07:54:55 PM
In my opinion the 114H narrow is a much better reel than the 49 and 349.
Sal

Tig weld or braze the holes Sal but I have a 49L bridge plate drawn up and was planning on making a shaft to fit a 113H gear sleeve on it but I still need a 49L.  AFTER the other project though.  We had high wind yesterday and I have some large branches to cut off the fences, not nearly as bad as our east coast friends though.



The 114HN is stronger for sure and it's more ballanced than than the narrower 349H.  I still like the 349H though and the 49L has it's place.

The 114H has a thicker base, thicker gear sleeve shaft, larger gear sleeve, larger screws, thicker bridge plate and heavier side plates, the 349H has more drag contact due to the smaller gear sleeve ID.  My 114H has a brass main gear, I've never seen brass main gears in a 349H but they might have come with them in the last years of production.  Over all I like my new to me 114H a lot but I have had 349s for a long time and they work well.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Alto Mare on November 01, 2012, 08:36:49 PM
Lee, we talked about this project a while back, I'm not 100% sure on it, but i believe that we decided it wasn't worth it, well I mdid anyway. You were surprised about the sleeve being so undersized. I could probably find what we talked about, I keep all of my messages, coming and going, but like I said above, I'm not really interested in it. There are way better reels ;).
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on November 01, 2012, 08:44:13 PM
Yes, there are better reels for some applications but for it's size the 49L winds in a lot of line per crank, that's why I want at least 1 for a teaser reel.... I have a friend that wants to catch billfish on a flyrod.

I think I have 2 49L reels comming in trade for repair work.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Ron Jones on November 01, 2012, 08:56:23 PM
Sal,
Are you saying that the larger drags are the issue with the 49L? I think the steel gears and a SS sleeve would hold up to anything. I have been playing with drags a lot lately, and I have pretty much come to agree with the 5 pound per disk rule. I have a 5+1 113 with steel gears that I am thrilled with and their is plenty of evidence on this board that that is safe. So a 5+1 49L with a SS sleeve should give comperable drag and run cooler because of the larger surface area of the cf disks. The 49L seems to have a lot going for it as a foundation for a medium capacity hot rod.

Ron
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Alto Mare on November 01, 2012, 09:09:12 PM
Ron, the ss sleeve will help somewhat, but the problem is also with the  post ,  I believe it's undersized for that reel and I've seen a few get lose on the bridge plate. The 49 is a nice reel. 1+3 CF washers, a ss sleeve and your set, I woldn't go any further.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on November 01, 2012, 09:13:39 PM
The mechanical advantage of a larger diameter spool and 500 size shaft will cause problems sooner than on a 500/112H size reel. 
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Ron Jones on November 01, 2012, 09:28:46 PM
Got it, that makes sence. But what about my 113? George and John and I have all built them with 5+1 drags, I will narrow mine as soon as I get a 66. Are you of the opinion that they are underbuilt or is the bigger spool of the 49 the difference? I am only being a butt head because your opinion is important and I'd like to know what to expect when I fish my 113s.

I actually don't care for the post and sleeve arangement on Penns. It seems to me that a solid sleeve, like on some Diawa reels, is a stronger arangement. Especially if the sleeve is seated in a beefy bushing or apropriately sized bearing. Of course, the Diawa sleeve connects to the frame and that isn't feasable on a Penn.

If you built a heavy bridge, what are the chances you would cause the side plate to fail? I don't know how thick the sideplate is on a 49, but I wouldn't think it is much thinner than a 113H, and those have held up to an awful lot.

Ron
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on November 01, 2012, 09:39:34 PM
The 113, not the 113H, has the same shaft but a smaller spool OD as the 49L so less mechanical advantage.  You may or may not see problems...time will tell.  Untill proven I will not build a 7+1 for others and do not intend to fish it at the high end, 50lb/60lb makes me happy with the 113H and 349H reels, 60lb/80lb for the 114H but I'll set it up for 50lb first.  If I feel the need to fish heavier I'll use one of my Avet 4/0s, 30s and 50s or my Penn International 70s but another trip south isn't in the near future.

As for a heavier bridge, eventualty we will reach the point where something else fails.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Ron Jones on November 01, 2012, 09:43:55 PM
OK,
I guess I should ask if anyone has ever fished a 5+1 ss sleeved 49L hard? I am happy with a narrow 113 size reels for now but if I move further offshore I will need to go bigger, I am looking hard at the 49/349.

Ron
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on November 01, 2012, 09:47:18 PM
349H for lighter 114HN for heavier.  I have seen more damaged 49L reels when I lived in SE Alaska than 349s, big butts put a strain on a reel.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Alto Mare on November 01, 2012, 10:10:47 PM
Quote from: noyb72 on November 01, 2012, 09:43:55 PM
OK,
I guess I should ask if anyone has ever fished a 5+1 ss sleeved 49L hard? I am happy with a narrow 113 size reels for now but if I move further offshore I will need to go bigger, I am looking hard at the 49/349.

Ron

The 113 Tank is a stronger reel than the 49 and the 114HN is a stronger reel  than the 349, I believe I could get could get the 114HN close to the 349 in weight.
We're waiting for the ss gears for the 114h, Dom had a good lead, but with all of that mess from Sandy, I don't know. :-\

Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on November 01, 2012, 10:37:33 PM
Aluminum 114HN spools are much lighter than the narrower cast bronze/brass 349H spools.  I'll weigh my 114HN and 349HW and see what the difference is.  I did find one standard width Newell 349H spool and love the new weight.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Ron Jones on November 01, 2012, 10:39:05 PM
I am certain that the tank is stronger, but doesn't the 49 have more line capacity?

Ron
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on November 01, 2012, 10:46:19 PM
Just a guess from spooling reels but I think the capacity is close, I use bulk spools and do not have a line counter.  If you need more line use more Spectra for backing.  Most of my reels are filled with Spectra with topshots from 10'-100'.  The short ones for bottom fishing and flylining live bait, long ones for trolling.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: George4741 on November 02, 2012, 03:37:46 AM
Interesting thread.  

I got rid of my 49 because I felt it didn't offer any advantage over my 349's.  It also had a plastic spool and would cost more to replace than I was prepared to spend.  I don't think a 1+5 drag will fit, but it might if you fabricate some very thin metal washers and use some very thin carbontex.  

Quote from: Keta on November 01, 2012, 09:47:18 PM
349H for lighter 114HN for heavier.  I have seen more damaged 49L reels when I lived in SE Alaska than 349s, big butts put a strain on a reel.

One of the other forum members (I forget which one) also said he has seen many 49's damaged from halibut fishing.  I have never used one but I've examined a few 49's at swap meets and garage sales and all had bent spools and/or a bent reel foot.  I figure they were pushed hard to make that happen.  

Me, I'll stay with a 349 and not feel handicapped with it's slightly slower 1:3.25 gear ratio.  It's beefier than a 49 and easily holds a 1+5 drag.

Here is a link to ReelSpeed's custom 49.  It shows what can be done with one.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2364.0


Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Ron Jones on November 02, 2012, 04:17:07 AM
OK, so I obviously missed something, Reelspeeds reel using a 113H side plate makes me think a 49 is the same diameter as a YTS, I thought it was the diameter of a 6/0.

Ron
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: George4741 on November 02, 2012, 04:28:02 AM
No, he is using a 113h pressure plate washer, the last washer on the drag stack before the bellville and drag star.  He calls it the drag cover.  See how also he enlarged the opening for the gear sleeve/drags in the side plate.

Notice how he also beefed the reel up with a Newell reel foot and spacer bars and removed the knucklebuster lever.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Ron Jones on November 02, 2012, 06:01:57 AM
Got it,

So I wonder what gears he used? If you use a 114h gear sleeve you certainly can't use 49 gears.

Ron
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: fisho1 on February 07, 2013, 07:22:53 AM
i have just found a penn 49 super mariner in a second hand store, it was covered in dust, i have only ever seen 1 similar before, and it seems to be in good condition, my question is, it has two drag levers on the side, how do i use it correctly. please.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on February 07, 2013, 01:46:46 PM
One disconnects the anti reverse dog the other disconnects the spool.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: fisho1 on February 08, 2013, 12:59:44 AM
thank you very much, am looking forward to using this reel.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: George4741 on February 08, 2013, 04:15:41 AM
Quote from: fisho1 on February 08, 2013, 12:59:44 AM
thank you very much, am looking forward to using this reel.

What species/type of fish and what lb test line?  Also, if it has a plastic spool, you should replace it.  Plastic no good, metal good, aluminum best. ;)

Oh yes, one more thing, most of us recommend greased Ht-100 drag washers.  Crack it open and let us know what it has. ;)

And welcome to the forum,
George
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Norcal Pescador on April 10, 2013, 03:40:50 PM
Lee,

Are you still looking for a 49L?
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on April 10, 2013, 04:22:06 PM
Yes I am.  I prefer 349s for fishing but I want a 49 to "have" or possably use it as a teaser reel.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Norcal Pescador on April 10, 2013, 04:48:48 PM
Quote from: Keta on April 10, 2013, 04:22:06 PM
Yes I am.  I prefer 349s for fishing but I want a 49 to "have" or possably use it as a teaser reel.

PM sent. I also have another -

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6189.msg58925#msg58925
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Alto Mare on April 10, 2013, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: Keta on April 10, 2013, 04:22:06 PM
Yes I am.  I prefer 349s for fishing but I want a 49 to "have" or possably use it as a teaser reel.
Lee, looks like Black Pearl is going forward with the ss gears for the 114h, he's also giving us the Hex cut.
The 114HN with those new gears will be very hard to beat.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on April 10, 2013, 07:50:21 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 10, 2013, 05:07:06 PM
Lee, looks like Black Pearl is going forward with the ss gears for the 114h, he's also giving us the Hex cut.
The 114HN with those new gears will be very hard to beat.
Sal

Yup, I wish Tib made a 114HNN kit though.
Title: Re: Penn 49 super mariner
Post by: Keta on April 27, 2013, 12:46:54 PM
I now have a 49 that I can use to fit the parts.  It looks like I can make where it engages the gear longer too.