Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: Ron Jones on November 07, 2012, 04:55:10 AM

Title: Penn 180
Post by: Ron Jones on November 07, 2012, 04:55:10 AM
So,
I won a 180 that I was sure I wouldn't win. From what I can tell it is a Surfmaster 100 with slow gears and Jigmaster drags. I think the 100 is similar in size to a 1/0, but I don't know much else. Anyone have any more data or experience?
Ron
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Keta on November 07, 2012, 06:07:04 AM
The Surfmaster 100 is the same size as the Squidder 146.  The 100 and 180 are both 3:1, the 180 is slightly larger acording to Penn Parts specs and close to the 1/0. I do not know about the drag stack OD.

I like using the 100 and 150.
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Irish Jigger on November 07, 2012, 09:11:16 AM
I think you may have a Baymaster there, 2.3:1 ratio?
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: George4741 on November 07, 2012, 01:30:19 PM
If it is indeed a 180 Baymaster, then it uses the same spool as a 100 surfmaster.  It also uses 6-155 drag washers and is slightly smaller than a 1/0 senator.
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Alto Mare on November 07, 2012, 02:01:35 PM
Yes the spool is the same as the 100, but gears are not. The 100 uses the same gears as a squidder, the 1/0 and many others.
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: George4741 on November 07, 2012, 02:16:17 PM
Yes, the 180 is basically a narrowed 155 beachmaster and is one of Penn's smallest conventionals.  I narrowed my 155 to the 180 width because I'M NARROW MINDED. ;D

Here's an interesting fact.  A few early 200 surfmasters have smaller main gears (same size as the 180) and 6-155 drags.  More confusion to add to the Penn line-up. ;D  I have one.  At different times I've narrowed it to a 150 and 100 width. ;D  
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Alto Mare on November 07, 2012, 02:49:38 PM
Thanks for confusing us George ::) ;D.
I'm thinking someone was experimenting with that reel.
I know you could drill the 13-200, didn't have the 13-140.
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: George4741 on November 07, 2012, 03:22:14 PM
Sal, now you're confusing me. ;)  I'm not sure what you mean about the 13-200/13-140 gears. ??? 
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Keta on November 07, 2012, 03:29:46 PM
Isn't the 6-60 washer larger OD than the 6-155?  I have a 209 I can take apart to measure the washers but I don't really like reassembling them if I don't have to.
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: George4741 on November 07, 2012, 04:17:07 PM
Quote from: Keta on November 07, 2012, 03:29:46 PM
Isn't the 6-60 washer larger OD than the 6-155?  I have a 209 I can take apart to measure the washers but I don't really like reassembling them if I don't have to.

Yes, the 6-60 is larger.
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Alto Mare on November 07, 2012, 04:23:10 PM
Quote from: George4741 on November 07, 2012, 03:22:14 PM
Sal, now you're confusing me. ;)  I'm not sure what you mean about the 13-200/13-140 gears. ??? 
Pinion gear George.
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Keta on November 07, 2012, 04:41:19 PM
I'm confused Sal (not unusual), is the spool shaft thicker?
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Alto Mare on November 07, 2012, 05:12:21 PM
My fault Lee, I didn't explain. I was putting together a squidder and only had gears for the 100, the main gear is the same but the pinion ID is smaller, so I had to enlarge.
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Keta on November 07, 2012, 05:18:36 PM
Now I uderstand.
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Alto Mare on November 07, 2012, 05:23:27 PM
I know that there are lots of Penn Gurus here, I thought it would be nice to show some gears side by side.
These are the most popular sizes, well to me anyway:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/003-6.jpg)

And here is a shot of the smallest gear to the largest, just to compare:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/007-2.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/008-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: john2244 on November 07, 2012, 05:54:40 PM
Sal,
Thanks for posting the pics of the gears.  I have started a little gear collection so I can see the difference but I don't have them all.  It is nice to see most of them side by side.
John

Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Joel.B on November 07, 2012, 06:37:53 PM
Ron I have one that was my aunts- not fished it yet but I will. Very slow but I love these and way it fits in my hand.

Mine already has light weight spool installed. I have an extra LW spool, new in the vintage box - yours if you can use it. NO. 29-100

box says its for no. 100-180-185-190
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: George4741 on November 07, 2012, 06:57:16 PM
Quote from: Joel.B on November 07, 2012, 06:37:53 PM

Mine already has light weight spool installed. I have an extra LW spool, new in the vintage box - yours if you can use it. NO. 29-100
box says its for no. 100-180-185-190

Joel, as you and some others may know, it is referring to the old pre-1990 185 and 190.  The newer 185/190 have larger spools.  Just more confusion for everyone. ;)

I can't afford a sample gear from all of the Penns ;) so I have to settle with a sample drag washer from each. ;D
  George
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Ron Jones on November 07, 2012, 08:25:14 PM
Joel,
I apreciate the offer. I'm not sure what the reel has now. Was this reel offered with a plastic spool? If not, then it is already aluminum. If it isn't aluminum, I'll take you up on the offer. Does anyone know if Alans SS sleve fits? Are their HT-100 drags available?

Thanks
Ron
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Joel.B on November 07, 2012, 08:27:36 PM
Ron,

this spool is plastic, not aluminum. 
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Keta on November 07, 2012, 09:09:41 PM
Nice Sal!
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: redsetta on November 07, 2012, 10:25:44 PM
QuoteNice Sal!
x2 - a very useful post.
Cheers, Justin
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Ron Jones on November 07, 2012, 11:41:25 PM
I nominate it as Photo of the month, a seperate post with the picture stickied wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Ron
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: alantani on November 08, 2012, 02:14:41 AM
photo of the month!  now, some dimensions would be nice.  i've got a bunch of loose gears and i have no idea which ones they are. 
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Cone on November 08, 2012, 02:19:06 AM
+1 on the pic. Sal you always come up with something to admire. Maybe I'll use it as wall paper. Bob
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Alto Mare on November 08, 2012, 04:07:40 AM
Quote from: alantani on November 08, 2012, 02:14:41 AM
photo of the month!  now, some dimensions would be nice.  i've got a bunch of loose gears and i have no idea which ones they are. 
I had a feeling it was going to lead to this ;D, here you go:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/044.jpg)
Keep in mind our calipers are not synchronized, but it should still help.
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Alto Mare on November 08, 2012, 04:12:04 AM
 The 109 at the end should be switched with the 155 ,sorry I'm not doing it again, just a small detail.
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: john2244 on November 08, 2012, 04:18:20 AM
Sal,

Thanks for doing this. 

John
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: alantani on November 08, 2012, 07:54:49 AM
show off .......  ;D
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Ron Jones on November 08, 2012, 10:30:13 PM
So,
After going through some posts on here and looking at PennParts I believe that the 180 can't use a ss sleeve but the 155 gear can. If that is the case then is their a bridge that will fit the ss sleeve anf fit the reels sideplate?

Thanks
Ron
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Alto Mare on November 08, 2012, 10:38:48 PM
Ron, for the ss sleeve you'll need part # 98-155 coarse thread, Alan has them.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Ron Jones on November 09, 2012, 01:40:13 AM
Thanks Sal,
My only concern is that PennParts lists the bridge as 3-155, and they don't list a ss sleeve for all of the reels with that bridge. In the recent Surfmaster thread, the 3-155 was described as having to small a post for the standard jigmaster bridge. I'm thinking mine will show up that way.

Ron
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Alto Mare on November 09, 2012, 02:15:58 AM
You will be ok Ron, your bridge on the 180  is a 3-155 and will take the 98-155 ss sleeve. the jigmaster bridge is 3-500 and will take the 98-60 ss sleeve.
I tested mine a while back, the difference in the two sleeve posts is only .2mm . I could fit the 98-155 sleeve on a Jigmaster, but the 98-60 sleeve is just a little lose on the 3-155.

Let me stop confusing you. The 98-155 ss sleeve will definitely fit on your reel.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Ron Jones on November 09, 2012, 02:34:11 AM
Thanks Sal,

That's what I wanted to hear!

So, I'm thinking this reel will work on my 8ft. Calico special. Their are coastal snapper on this island that I have sort of fallen in love with. How does 20# braid with a 15# topshot sound on this reel? Is the spool to small for that heavy line?

Ron
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: BogueSounder on November 14, 2012, 03:15:49 PM
Sal,
Thanks for this...very helpful for my frankenreels.  ;D

Mark
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Bryan Young on July 02, 2013, 09:50:48 PM
Sal is the master Gear Head  ;D
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: UKChris on August 02, 2013, 01:12:48 PM
I love those gears all lined up so neatly!
Thank you.

It also remined me that my two 12/0 have different main gears - the newer one is brass and the older one is steel (not stainless but 'moly coated' - who is moly?).



Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: doradoben on August 04, 2013, 06:28:00 AM
Great photos, Sal. On the subject of frankenreels, is it possible to use a fine thread jigmaster gear sleeve in a squidder if I get the correct star?? Thanks..
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Alto Mare on August 04, 2013, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: doradoben on August 04, 2013, 06:28:00 AM
Great photos, Sal. On the subject of frankenreels, is it possible to use a fine thread jigmaster gear sleeve in a squidder if I get the correct star?? Thanks..
Yes you could but you will lose one of the eccentric, the one that makes the handle go backwards while the drags are set. I'm sure there is a way to still keep it, the back side of the dog would need to be a little longer.
The gear sleeve that you are asking about is part#98-505AT, this sleeve doesn't go with the squidder, but as mentioned above, you could make it work.
Here is a shot of what I'm talking about:
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/001_zps5b8fc835.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/001_zps5b8fc835.jpg.html)
All you need to do is to make the dog shorter by 1/8". If you look at the opposite side of the dog, you'll notice that the eccentric is not pulling the dog away from the ratchet, when engaged, to make it work you will need to add about 1/8" at that area.
I tested the reel with the larger sleeve and it is working nicely, the dog is much louder, but I like it that way.
I do not mind doing this to my own squidders, I do not need the second eccentric.

Here is a shot of the original:
 (http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/002_zps1b9e6687.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/002_zps1b9e6687.jpg.html)
Notice how much smaller the sleeve ratchet is? That one is part # 98-155, it will fit the squidders, surfmasters monofil reels, beach masters and a couple more. This one doesn't come in fine threads

I'm sure you already know, but here is the info on the dual eccentric, look at the very first picture:
https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/manuals/89bmanual.pdf (https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/manuals/89bmanual.pdf)

Lastly, I'm not a fan of fine threads.
Sal


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: doradoben on August 04, 2013, 08:28:14 PM
Thank you, Sal for the detailed photos & the explanation of the effect it would have. I didn't consider that the second lever wouldn't work, but I don't use the second eccentric either..
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Johnfishy on August 05, 2013, 04:02:03 AM
Re: the photo of the gears.  Are those steel gears made by Penn?  Some are darker and the shiny ones look like stainless steel.  Will the darker gears hold up to a 5 stack of HT-100?
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Ron Jones on August 05, 2013, 06:35:44 AM
Those are steel and as long as you can keep them from rusting they effectively as strong as stainless.

Ron
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: doradoben on August 05, 2013, 02:17:15 PM
Johnfishy, there may not be enough room in the gear for 5 HT-100 washers. Some Carbonex washers are thinner, but it will probably require thinner metal washers also. An excellent example of a similar conversion is Bryan's 5+1 Jigmaster drag set.   
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Bryan Young on August 05, 2013, 03:25:51 PM
This is one of Sal's requested washers.  Washers are designed, just waiting for funds.
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Johnfishy on August 10, 2013, 07:09:37 PM
Thanks for all the info.   What a great site and bunch of guys!
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: swill88 on March 08, 2017, 05:29:04 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on November 08, 2012, 04:07:40 AM
Quote from: alantani on November 08, 2012, 02:14:41 AM
photo of the month!  now, some dimensions would be nice.  i've got a bunch of loose gears and i have no idea which ones they are. 
I had a feeling it was going to lead to this ;D, here you go:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/044.jpg)
Keep in mind our calipers are not synchronized, but it should still help.

I just picked up a 27 Monofil tonight after a glass of zin and while searching for information stumbled across this.

Thank you Sal!

Steve

Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: mhc on March 08, 2017, 08:16:09 AM
Quote from: swill88 on March 08, 2017, 05:29:04 AM

I just picked up a 27 Monofil tonight after a glass of zin and while searching for information stumbled across this.

Thank you Sal!

Steve



Thanks for finding that post Steve & thanks Sal for posting it, I have tried to find it a few times without luck.

Mike
Title: Re: Penn 180
Post by: Porthos on March 10, 2017, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: swill88 on March 08, 2017, 05:29:04 AM

I just picked up a 27 Monofil tonight after a glass of zin and while searching for information stumbled across this.

Thank you Sal!

Steve


Welcome to the 27 club. Let me know if you want to turn yours into a 40lb reel like mine...http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=15627.0