I have a new JM pe3 reel coming in soon. I have some serious plans on moding it up. As of now I have plans on adding a carbon fibre handle from "Clem" hopefully a new handle shaft with a carbon fibre handle knob, ceramic or hybrid spool bearings, bearing sleeve made from CF (if I can make one) larger CF washers and will also add another IAR making the reel running on two IAR. (kane at decoro fishing supplies in NZ does this)
I also want to make this reel bulletproof and wanted to get hold of an angular contact bearing for the right side plate... But I have not found one in the right dimensions. The original bearing measures od:13mm Id:5mm and Height/width: 4mm, anyone know somebody that caries it?
Perhaps Shelby of Isutami Bearings could help.
Would a thrust bearing suit your proposed application?
On an Avet I think a thrust bearing would put too much load on the side plate and bust through, I wish someone would come up with small flanged angular contact bearings to replace pinion bearings with.
A thrust bearing would be fine if you don't over-do-it in the drag. Just because you have a thrust bearing doesn't mean that you should try to get 50# of drag. You should stay within range of the reel. The true benefit is that you would not have to replace the pinion bearing as often.
That's a good thing, whenever I work on an Avets I replace the pinion and often that's why I'm working on them.
My intention is not to get the worlds strongest reel. I simply want the angular bearing to eliminate the problems regarding pinion bearing damage in the future. It is a small reel but I think it can handle 20 pounds drag
but a thrust bearing could work as long it isn't in contact with the outside frame (ie. inside the bearing cup on the house)
here is a thrust bearing with a 1mm smaller OD than the bearing cup, making it not grind on the reelcup while rotating.... is this size the right?
But how much load can it take from the spool pinion going through titely inside the ID of the thrust bearing...
is stainless my best option or chrome?
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/kit983
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit10924
There's more to these miniature thrust bearings than meets the eye, interesting note regarding clearances on the grooved type here.
http://www.smbbearings.com/Framesets/Thrust_Frame.htm
Will it work?
if the ID on one side of the thrust washer had a smaller ID than the other there wouldn't be any issues.... But I will try to order one or two. Chrome or stainless?
Sorry for late arrival. Noticed this thread and it piqued my interest for some reason, along with all the other bearing threads popping up all of a sudden. It has been at the back of my mind all day; just haven't had time to reply. There was something needed to be considered, but i just can't put my finger on it... Get back later.
I found your angular contact bearing, 5 x 13 x 5. I'll get back with more info on that.
About your axial bearings, you can get them a lot closer to home at kullagergrossisten.se for example. Maybe cheaper as well. I think i have one in my pocket too, if that helps.
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Thor, it's very interesting what you are trying to do. I've been through this whole process too, many times, in my head. It would be so simple with a couple of angular bearings of the correct size.... Please post results when you find a solution :)
Quote from: hafnor on March 15, 2013, 11:59:33 AM
if the ID on one side of the thrust washer had a smaller ID than the other there wouldn't be any issues.... But I will try to order one or two. Chrome or stainless?
Do you mean bearings with a higher chromium content? I think they are supposed to be more corrosion resistant (and expensive)...
Right, then...
Okay- i think what was buggin' me, is that the JM PE reels use first the pinion bearing, on the inside of the right side plate... okay... which is opposed by the bearing on the other side, in the lever. It seems to me that both bearings share the load equally. So in order for your idea to work as planned, it would be neccessary to replace both bearings with an AC bearing of the size you suggested.
Or perhaps i am mistaken, or misunderstood something?
In any case, the bearing you desire can be found at NSK Micro Precision, called MTA0513. And yes, stainless steel.
And as an added bonus, i can mention that the JM PE5 has a slightly larger bearing- 6 x 17 x 6, which is available at VXB.
Doc.
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And, about the axial bearings, weeeelll... a few things. First, making a small cup holder to adapt the axial bearings OD from 10 to 13 mm and fitting the sideplate or housing is not particularly difficult. So, that is not a problem.
But, axial bearings can take little or no radial force. Using or letting the axial bushing act as a radial bushing might not work as well as you'd hoped.
Somewhere in there there should be a radial bearing to keep things in alignment. Or, an angular contact bearing...
EDIT: Found the post regarding small AC bearings:
Quote from: madday on February 11, 2013, 02:01:20 AM
found this angular bearing today....
http://www.origin.co.jp/product/up_file/ja/200704091.pdf
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Hey Robert, thank you for all your help! I am learning alot these days :) That was my next question... how much radial load can that bearing take... since the whole spool and shaft is resting on that bearing. I have not have any issues regarding the bearing inside the cam. only the pinion bearing has broken down several times... Both bearings suffer the same load so I would be best off with two... this reel is getting expensive I guess.
I have called some bearing companies here in Norway that carries high end bearings but at 50$ for a regular stainless retainer shielded bearing is too much for me... You have a link, phone number or similar to contact them regarding that angular bearing?
My second question is what to do to accomodate the flex in the cage.... I know those angular bearings flex quite a bit and the bearing housing need to accomodate that flex. I may need to work in there with a dremel ???
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how much radial load can that bearing take... since the whole spool and shaft is resting on that bearing.
Which? An axialkullager, little or no radial load. The AC bearing, i don't recall offhand. It is in their specs; read it yourself.
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I have called some bearing companies here in Norway ... You have a link, phone number or similar to contact them regarding that angular bearing?
Link, no.. NSK is a big company; just google the info and bearing number. You'll find it.
Supplier in Norway, idunno... probably through the usual commercial distributors like Momentum or Rotera, who are in the business to make money. Not easy to be a privateer there; their prices are usually set according to a preferred customer deal. I can ask at work if we have anything going with them; we buy thousands of bearings yearly.
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My second question is what to do to accomodate the flex in the cage.... I know those angular bearings flex quite a bit and the bearing housing need to accomodate that flex. I may need to work in there with a dremel ???
Flex? What flex? Cage, as in bearing cage, or as in reel cage / frame?
Generally, bearing fit + Dremel = not a good idea.
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the inner race (raceway w. balls) on that angular contact bearing will flex quite a bit and squeezed a certain length inside towards the right side plate bearing cup. If it flexes too much the bearing will slowly grind into the reelhouse and make it unsmooth. If it scratches while using drag I have to drill to accomodate that inner race bearing flex.
The load should be from inter race to outer race with a tiny amount of radial load on the cage. The only non contamination related damage I've ever seen to large industrial AC bearings was caused by improper set up with too much or too little preload.
Sorry Hafnor; i just noticed that what i said above wasn't googleable at all. Here, near the middle somewhere and below:
http://nskmi756.rsjp.net/english/products/products01_09.html
And generally about NSK AC bearings:
http://www.nskeurope.com/cps/rde/xchg/eu_en/hs.xsl/angular-contact-ball-bearings.html
Still not sure what you mean about flexing a lot- Sure the bearing unit may seem a little loose or floppy in your hand, but when installed they are as solid as any other. Besides, there is another bearing immediately opposite this one in your reel. If you're REALLY worried about the inner race abrading the right side plate, there is nothing to stop you from installing a 0,1 mm shim behind the bearing.
I'm sure there are other suitable bearings out there as well; it just takes a lot of searching.
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imo, the DF type will work better for this application... ???
what is the df type?
Dual bearings, arranged Face-to-face. (see the link from Madday)
I see it the other way though- as DB arrangement with the sideplate and cam inbetween.
So, that is sort of as far as it has come, Hafnor. You now have a few alternatives:
1) pursue the NSK bearings any way you can.
2) pursue the Origin bearings (hint- Boca deals with them) and enlarge the sideplate bore from 13 to 14 mm, not sure about the lever / cam side. Use a machine shop, not a Dremel.
3) get one of the thrust bearings and use that in combination with the cam bearing for centricity and radial load. Not so sure that is going to work, but those thrust bearings are so cheap you can buy a couple just to mess around with for fun. Maybe you can use one in the cam and leave the pinion bearing as it is.
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And PS, has anyone asked this Shelby @ Isutami fellow?
And PPS, has anyone noticed similar syndrome with another American reel of very very similar type?
i may be wrong but the DF type's outer rings are pre-loaded making it more suitable for a pinion bearing because the inner rings will have no contact against the right side plate. ???
aha, so they won't flex any?
I just opened up a newer JM pe4 reel and it measured 14x5x5mm... Hmm maybe my previous bearing measurement was wrong. I have to check in a weeks time when the new reel arrives (new being the previous model ie. not the newest handle) but maybe they went with a larger bearing. I found a matching 14x5x5 AC bearing in chrome steel from ebay. If the OD is only 13mm on the older reels, I may be able to grind one mm inside the right side plate...?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/705C-Angular-Contact-5mm-x-14mm-x-5mm-Miniature-Ball-Bearings-/360480812534
Clem or anyone else, could you check the right side plate pinion bearing and cam bearing size on your pe3?
best, Thor