Any one know what the line capacity of the 112H narrow( chowder puff) is. And how does this compare to a 501 or a 506. Any thoughts???
Bob
Left to right, 112HN, 501, 60.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Reels/DSCN1302_zps4972b404.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Reels/DSCN1302_zps4972b404.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Reels/DSCN1303_zps057df3fd.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Reels/DSCN1303_zps057df3fd.jpg.html)
Thanks Lee. Looks like what I thought. The width of the spool is about the same between the 501/506 and the 112HN. The diameter is slightly larger on the 112HN. So that's where the added line capacity comes from. Not to mention the line retrieve rate. I needed to see that. Thanks for putting it up.
Bob
And if Alan comes through with the 5:1 gears the line retrieval will be awesome!
I think I've said it on 3 threads now, but I am insane crazy about this reel.
Ron
Ron I'm thinking this will be an awsome jigging reel. Over and above the 506 due to the heavy duty side rings and the bushings. I currently have a 506/500/accurate side plated 506(5:1 ratio) and a Newell 454G with the narrow Tib frame. All the above with Tib frames. Think I need to get rid of something?? Couldn't use them all. They all pretty much fit the same needs. I guess this is a good problem to have.
Bob
Some might think it already was a better reel than those.
Bob, you forgot to mention the recess by the side on the new frame, eliminating inner rings. That design creates one unit with frame and plates. ;)
Quote from: Keta on March 29, 2013, 01:52:30 AM
Left to right, 112HN, 501, 60.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Reels/DSCN1302_zps4972b404.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Reels/DSCN1302_zps4972b404.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Reels/DSCN1303_zps057df3fd.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Reels/DSCN1303_zps057df3fd.jpg.html)
Lee, you're not helping matters! ;) I'm trying SO hard to not succumb to buying and narrowing a 112H (like I need another reel). I luv narrow reels and the looks and rarity of yours is making it irresistable.
Later,
George
Some are available in red now.
That's right Sal !!!i forgot no inner rings. I NEED one. Now if we can justgetthe hex drags up and running......think about that. Maybe over 20# of drag and now what I was seeing from Lee the SS star drag. A really nice albacore jigging reel for the NE canyons. IF they decide to show up this year.
I have been thinking about hex drags, but I figured I'd wait for someone else to bring it up.
So, now I have what is probably a stupid idea. Beings how we have Alan making full on custom gears, what is the chance we can get those gears with the inside milled out into a hex shape vice round? That would maximize the drag surface area and we wouldn't need a sleeve. Stainless 5:1 Hex dragged stainless sleeved double dogged T3NK would be and unbeatable reel for anything smaller than you would want a full size tank for. Just thinking about it is making me jump out of my seat.
Ron
It would add to the cost a bit but the change can be made.
I think that the hex per-cut in the gear is the way to go....I wonder if someone could do this??
I'm with Ron, the cut out would be the way to go, all is needed is to leave a 3/16" wall. I mentioned this to Alan a little while back but haven't heard anything. :-\ I do not mind paying an additional $10 or so per set, these would work on all of the gears that we're getting.
If this does work out, we will need to wait until the gears that Alan is bringing to us,are out of the way.
if it doesn't happen, Doc's hex sleeve will do us.
A eared/hex adapter is heading to the cutter in 5 minutes.
Way to go Lee!!
Out of stainless? This is very exciting.
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 01, 2013, 08:36:37 PM
I'm with Ron, the cut out would be the way to go, all is needed is to leave a 3/16" wall. I mentioned this to Alan a little while back but haven't heard anything. :-\ I do not mind paying an additional $10 or so per set, these would work on all of the gears that we're getting.
If this does work out, we will need to wait until the gears that Alan is bringing to us,are out of the way.
if it doesn't happen, Doc's hex sleeve will do us.
Sal, we can try few sets on the 112H. Do you perhaps have the diamension how far each ears should be?
If an insert works for the 112h it should also work on any reel using the same gear set right? I am thinkibg about what an awsome 501 you can have Doug
Ah, right... again i am reminded to get back to you about that...
.
Doug,
I believe Sal has already done a 501. Look up Hex drags.
Ron
Slots are better than an insert. Black Pearl is checking with his contact, he will let us know when he gets some info.
This is good guys, I was able to push Black Pearl's gears up to 22lb and that was with the star as tight as it could go. With my gears that I placed the six slot , I was able to get 28lb .
My tests are done with the line going through the eyes of the rod and by turning the handle, not easy.
You dudes are killin' me. When this becomes reality, every 500 series/112H/Newell I own will be this...Bring it!
Quote from: BMITCH on April 01, 2013, 09:00:49 PM
Out of stainless? This is very exciting.
The first ones might be aluminum.
I don't mind aluminum. Bob
Aluminum is just great. So far this winter I've been into ALL my reels at least 5X with all the updates!! Seems like you just get out and they pull you back in. All in good fun. Are we running out of updates yet? Lee, I have a couple of machinist friends looking into an insert for the gears. I don't hold out much hope in that it will get done in a quick time frame. They don't fish so I don't expect there tobe any urgency to get it done. If it gets done at all. Thanks for all your hard work.
Bob
Ok guys. I have an update on this subject.
I can make 50 gear sets (main and pinion) for JigMaster 500/112H per Sal's requested. These 50 sets will have 6 ears as shown in the picture. I might have to get in touch with Dawn (Smooth Drag) on making those CF drag washers available.
Theses 50 sets will be SUS 316, helical cutting and 5:1 ratio.
I have not confirmed anything yet, but the original project (with original 2 ears only) for the JigMaster/112H samples will be started soon.
Now the question will be who want it and please show your hand. I don't know how much it will be yet, but it should not be high.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/parsts%20an%20such/004-2.jpg)
Hi Alan, I'm in for one set for now. Maybe a couple more for my buddies reels. One now for sure.
Thanks
Bob
Alan,
I am in for a set. I want to get 1 set of these and 1 of Keta's adapters and do a head to head on my Tuna special.
Ron
Quote from: Keta on April 02, 2013, 01:35:34 AM
Quote from: BMITCH on April 01, 2013, 09:00:49 PM
Out of stainless? This is very exciting.
The first ones might be aluminum.
Hi Lee,
You may want to think about using brass. it's about the same price, but much less hastle to cut from the machinest perspective.
Bryan
I would like two set sets of the Jigmaster 500/112 gears with the six ears.
John
What amazes me is... I found this site about two years ago and we had some mods. Now in the past six months it's been non-stop upgrades . ABSOLUTELY AMAZING.
Alan, I earlier said I was in for a set. I'd rather have the set with the six ears. Bob
Quote from: Black Pearl on April 02, 2013, 06:28:05 PM
...I can make 50 gear sets (main and pinion) for JigMaster 500/112H per Sal's requested. These 50 sets will have 6 ears as shown in the picture. I might have to get in touch with Dawn (Smooth Drag) on making those CF drag washers available.
Now, i don't want to curb anyone's enthusiasm, but you might want to be careful with that. The fact is, that this is Penn's patented intellectual property. You might want to see how they feel about it first, before you go into production and start making business of it.
.
Quote from: Robert Janssen on April 03, 2013, 04:39:02 AM
Quote from: Black Pearl on April 02, 2013, 06:28:05 PM
...I can make 50 gear sets (main and pinion) for JigMaster 500/112H per Sal's requested. These 50 sets will have 6 ears as shown in the picture. I might have to get in touch with Dawn (Smooth Drag) on making those CF drag washers available.
Now, i don't want to curb anyone's enthusiasm, but you might want to be careful with that. The fact is, that this is Penn's patented intellectual property. You might want to see how they feel about it first, before you go into production and start making business of it.
.
Which bit are you referring to? The ears? The fact there are six ears? That other reels have the same thing?
I think I understand where you might be coming from, Doc, but from where I sit, the whole aftermarket thing has done Penn so much good in terms of their reputation and popularity that I can't see how they would really gripe. After all, almost all of the reels affected by this are actually discontinued by them.
If we are getting picky, and Penn is indeed worried about this kind of thing, then with frame dimensions, frame screw hole numbers, Newell/Accurate gear sets, I guess Accurate, Tiburon, JVariance and Newell need to be worried.
But from what we haven't seen, I don't think this is a problem.
Steve Carson pops up on this web site occasionally - I don't know this gentleman, but would love to hear his take on aftermarket "improvements" that have been a constant part of Penns evolution from quite a while back, and he's commented on things such as Sal's Tank - quite complimentarily, despite the commercial sale of SS dogs, gear sleeves etc.
While you have a point, and I could certainly be wrong, I think that in context Penn is quite unlikely to be worried about a few aftermarket "improved" gear sets for (mostly) discontinued reels - even if their intellectual property rights are undisputed. After all, they more than anyone else are interested in looking after their loyal following.
Plenty of time to change our approach if Penn indicates they'd like us to, I think.
Anybody here would certainly listen if we were spoken to. We're their biggest fans, after all.
Simon.
But the bit that really miffs me is that I really really want one of these 112H narrow frames in black... All my other (12) Special Senators have black frames. I (stamps foot) don't want to change!!!!
Simon
Simon, Penn holds a patent on exactly that: A main gear with six semicircular lobes for the purpose of improved drag. It has nothing to do with Accurate or Newell or frames or other reels which don't have this, or any other zillion aftermarket products.
And yes, as you say, Penn may be absolutely delighted at the idea. I'm sure they'd be happy to hear about it. They might be so delighted they order a thousand sets themselves.
But my point is, that it is in fact their IP. And before one "borrows" someone elses IP, it is always nice to ask first. ESPECIALLY if you intend to make money on it.
Not only in terms of convoluted legal jive, but also just because it happens to be a proper, gentlemanly thing to do.
If someone asks nicely to borrow my car, they're a nice car fan. If they don't ask and do it anyway, they're a car thief. It is a fine line, that's all.
Steve Carsons is a really nice guy. I met him a few years ago. Very, very knowlegeable. I look forward to seeing him again someday.
As it happens, this bit about the IP isn't really his area; it belongs with some of the others at Pure Fishing. But no doubt at all Steve would enjoy the idea.
.
This just a wild idea why not put the regular grooves in the gear as well . looks like there is room one gear for eigther drag system Doug
Quote from: Robert Janssen on April 03, 2013, 12:13:55 PM
Simon, Penn holds a patent on exactly that: A main gear with six semicircular lobes for the purpose of improved drag.
I'm going to have to do some math and have seven ears instead of six, that would make us different ;D
You know, we're using different material, our gears are not magnetic as Penn gears. :-\
How about 4 ears?
Penns gears are also a different size than the 112h and I know the BS gears won't work with the 113H. I am certain that Alan isn't stepping on any toes.
Ron
We can infringe on a patent if we aren't selling the parts and size does not matter with pattent infringement. We should ask Penn for permission to use their pattent for non profit uses.
hello out there! ive been watching other people than myself post their crazy ideas, I am interested in hex gear sets for the 112H, as it makes a usuable reel out of it if you can get more than 6-10lbs of drag, ive thought about penn49 drag washers and trim to hex or ? the 49ers are larger dia and a stock item,also who sells sst. gearsleeves for the 113h and how much?
The Doc and Lee are right. I am working on something that will not infringe PENN patent with 6 semicircle ears.
Does anyone have the PENN's patent number?
Quote from: gstours on April 03, 2013, 07:58:32 PM
hello out there! ive been watching other people than myself post their crazy ideas, I am interested in hex gear sets for the 112H, as it makes a usuable reel out of it if you can get more than 6-10lbs of drag, ive thought about penn49 drag washers and trim to hex or ? the 49ers are larger dia and a stock item,also who sells sst. gearsleeves for the 113h and how much?
You can check with Alan T. or Keta.
Quote from: Robert Janssen on April 03, 2013, 12:13:55 PM
But my point is, that it is in fact their IP. And before one "borrows" someone elses IP, it is always nice to ask first. ESPECIALLY if you intend to make money on it.
As you originally said, Doc.
I retract my previous opinion.
I was wrong.
Simon.
Seeing the actual patent would be nice. I missed the earlier entry about what it covers. What about a hex shape inside the gear?
Ron
Quote from: noyb72 on April 04, 2013, 04:53:48 AM
Seeing the actual patent would be nice. I missed the earlier entry about what it covers. What about a hex shape inside the gear?
Ron
I think the main thing is that Penn came up with the idea, and it would be a good idea to get their blessing. It may not be about legality, but about honor.
I absolutely agree, I guess it is just the Navy in me but I like to have something in writing to go off of when forming a proposal. I won't let kids take a crap on a submarine without a procedure.
Ron
Alan, maybe we should do something similar to this:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/parsts%20an%20such/002-20.jpg)
This is Doc's idea about using the Hex insert, ours wouldn't have the insert, you could get your contact mill it out as one unit....we need to ask Doc if it's ok with him, but I already know he doesn't mind ;)
He put it out there for us to explore. Thanks again Doc, we're lucky to have you with us.
From doing some crazy tests with the Hexagon drags in my reel, I'm going to recommend the octagon shape.
The hexagon held up fine, but there was a hint of shredding at the very tip of the angles. I could have just been from me cutting my own washers :-\, but I still believe the octagon shape is the way to go.
We would be able to cut our own washers with these, just by using scissors, but I wouldn't mind having Dawn do it for us...if she's interested.
Sal
Sal, once again you come to the plate swinging. I think your a GC by trade but I think you missed your true calling. Those folks at Penn could use your set of eyes on some projects. Thanks for all the great ideas. I only hope it can be done.
Bob
Bob, Alan mentioned that his contact has some advanced equipment, there might be a good chance that he could come up with those.
If they do, I'm going to need to reserve 10 sets each, before Broadway gets them all ;D.
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 04, 2013, 11:32:18 AM
Bob, Alan mentioned that his contact has some advanced equipment, there might be a good chance that he could come up with those.
If they do, I'm going to need to reserve 10 sets each, before Broadway gets them all ;D.
This main gear will not have any semi-circle ear. I will have my guy check it out. As I have stated, there will be 50 sets on Jigmaster 500/112H with this design. Let's see what my guy can do.
Thanks Alan!
Hopefully Broadway isn't on right now. Might give me a shot in getting three sets. Thanks Alan for all the hard work!
Bob
You guys are funny... I only need 33 sets for now ;D just kidding.
Im in on anything that sal recommends, creates, or tests so count me in!
Keep me posted when they're done so I can give you a quantity number.
Alan, when you said you will be having 50 of the 112h gears made did you mean octagonal, hexagonal, or regular?
Sal, what would give more drag... Hex, octagon, or 7+1 circular?
Keep the gears coming, Alan. I'll be putting the gears in my new 112h narrow when you send them out and can't wait.
Thanks
Dom
Alan,
I would like 2 sets of the new deisgn ( what ever it turns out to be ).
John
Quote from: broadway on April 06, 2013, 05:53:27 PM
You guys are funny... I only need 33 sets for now ;D just kidding.
Im in on anything that sal recommends, creates, or tests so count me in!
Keep me posted when they're done so I can give you a quantity number.
Alan, when you said you will be having 50 of the 112h gears made did you mean octagonal, hexagonal, or regular?
Sal, what would give more drag... Hex, octagon, or 7+1 circular?
Keep the gears coming, Alan. I'll be putting the gears in my new 112h narrow when you send them out and can't wait.
Thanks
Dom
I mean that I will make 50 sets for 112H octagonal and 350 sets 112H regular.
Put me down for 1 hex set.
Quote from: broadway on April 06, 2013, 05:53:27 PM
Sal, what would give more drag... Hex, octagon, or 7+1 circular?
Keep the gears coming, Alan. I'll be putting the gears in my new 112h narrow when you send them out and can't wait.
Thanks
Dom
Dom, Hexagonal and octagonal washers should put out the same. Comparing them to the 7+1, I would say about the same, maybe Just a little more. from me testing them, I'm going to say definitely smoother ;)
Good enough for me... wonder if a 7+1 with an octagonal main gear would be insane or unnecessary over kill.
You could probably pull in a small whale with it already ;)
Thanks Sal
Dom
I think we will be limited to 3 or 4 CF washers but they will have 6 or 8 working surfaces. We will see, I have a nice RED 112HN now that is needing a hex gear.
In for the Octagon...of course! ;D
Alan I will also need 2 sets of the octagon/hex gear sets.
Thanks, Bob
The octagonal gear set is still being developed at this moment. When it is ready, I will start a new thread to take an order from everyone.
Alan, are you saying that the octagonal shape might really happen?
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 08, 2013, 01:01:19 AM
Alan, are you saying that the octagonal shape might really happen?
Not sure yet. My guy and I still try to find a way to make it happens.
I'm hoping it will happen, but then we would have another problem. All other gears will need to be the same ;D
The good thing is they're easy to mark (+x) ;D
Thanks Alan, very exciting stuff here.
Bob
Quote from: Keta on March 29, 2013, 01:52:30 AM
Left to right, 112HN, 501, 60.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Reels/DSCN1302_zps4972b404.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Reels/DSCN1302_zps4972b404.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Reels/DSCN1303_zps057df3fd.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Reels/DSCN1303_zps057df3fd.jpg.html)
Lee,
do you happen to still have this pics?
they were delete on your photobucket but maybe you have it on you pc, interested on see the comparation on 501, 60 and 112h
thanks
Yes, I just did some house keeping and moved them around.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Reels/DSCN1302_zps4972b404.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Reels/DSCN1302_zps4972b404.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Reels/DSCN1303_zps057df3fd.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Reels/DSCN1303_zps057df3fd.jpg.html)
thanks Lee, I knew that happened, it happened to me more than once before.