After my first topic on the subject accidentally was deleted by a too trigger happy moderator :D I'll give this a new try. I've done some digging and reading here on the forum since this morning after I got some great tips from you guys.
What I'm after is a reel that can handle the large halibuts in northern Norway (3-400 lbs :P). And I want to build the reel myself, preferably out of an old US made Penn. It should hold around 3-400 yards of 30 lbs braid.
After a few pointers I started looking at the Tank that Sal, Alto Mare, built out of an 113H. That looked like an awesome reel! I definitely want one of those! But I think a 112H size would be enough for my needs. And maybe even a Tiburon narrow framed one. I started drooling when I saw Tekas build of an 112HN with a narrow Tiburon frame.
Anyway.. I have to have a 112H (or a 113H) before I start upgrading it. So, as I'm a bit of a Penn noob, I have a few questions for you gentlemen.
First of all, is there any important differences between the 112H and the 113H besides line capacity?
When looking for a suitable reel is there something special to look for? I mean in terms of color of the sideplates, etc. And as I'm going to upgrade it with a new frame, spool, gears, dogs, handle and what not what about overall condition? Does it matter if it looks like s**t? Corroded posts, spool..
And one other thing.. Is it possible to do a Tank upgrade on a left handed Penn SS (were there left handed 112H's)? I prefer to hold the rod in my right hand but it's not something I'd die for.
Greatful for any input!
/Karl
PS
If you have any other suggestions on a Penn model to upgrade for some halibut fishing, please speak up! At this point I'm open to all suggestions as I don't even have a reel to upgrade yet!
Hi Karl,
Much though I love my 112hs, there's no way I'd try to lift a 300lb fish with one, if I had a choice. Even with all the upgrades available - frames, greased carbon fibre, SS gearsleeves/gears etc., just the size of the gear set and drag stack alone would leave you severely undergunned, I think.
Go for Sal's 113H tank - at a mimimum, I'd say. May be even 114H?
What kind of drag pressures do you want to put on these fish? I'd recommend start from there, and then choose accordingly.
Simon
I hope it wasn't me that made your post go away >:(
First of all, is there any important differences between the 112H and the 113H besides line capacity?
Gear ratio (112H 4:1, 113h 3.25:1), shaft diameter and drag stack, the 113H is a much more robust reel. My tank has 4:1 gears but I think for large halibut (over 70lbs) I'd rather have the stock 3.25:1 gear ratio.
Does it matter what it looks?Corroded posts, spool.
Rings and screws can be expensive to replace and a reel that shows lack of care on the outside might have the same on the inside.
Is it possible to do a Tank upgrade on a left handed Penn SS (were there left handed 112H's)?
Yes you can make a LH Tank but I don't think they made a LH 112H.
For 300-400 pound fish I'd consider the 113H the lightest and would rather use a 349H or 114HN....if they made a 114HNN frame I'd have one. I've brought several Pacific halibut to the boat over 6' long, we cut fish over loose fish over 50" when I lived in SE Alaska. I'll use my 112H for inshore halibut but we rarely catch fish over 100 off the Oregon coast, they are here but not common.
One advantage of a 113h as some of us can attest to, if you keep your eyes open on ebay you may luck out I got my newll framed yts with 4:1 geats for about 50 bucks because the seller didn't realize it was a narrowed frame but I recognized the shape of the bars when I got and turned the handle 4:1.
Karl, it wasn't a trigger happy moderator, it was a fast flying administrator. Get it right! ;D
My fingers are just too big sometimes when reading posts on my phone. Sorry about that. I'm glad you got the post restarted.
Bryan
Thanks for your input guys! I guess I was maybe a bit over enthusiastic about the 112H. Sounds like I'll step up to 113 or a 114 size.
As far as drag I guess I'm aiming at somewhere around 20-25? What I've read and heard from people going up there regularly and fish for halibut is that they recommend a 20-30 lbs setup. Some want heavier gear as they want to be able to push the halibut harder for a shorter fight. Most of the bigger halibut goes back and you don't want to tire them too much.
With the 114H, I can see that it has come out in three different versions (posts, half frame and full frame). Is there any difference when it comes to upgrading it with all the goodies? The same question applies to the different versions of the 113H (Posts, clicker or no clicker and half frame).
/Karl
Quote from: Bryan Young on March 29, 2013, 10:31:59 PM
Karl, it wasn't a trigger happy moderator, it was a fast flying administrator. Get it right! ;D
My fingers are just too big sometimes when reading posts on my phone. Sorry about that. I'm glad you got the post restarted.
Bryan
No problem Bryan! This time the topic is a bit more focused toward a specific goal and not just all over the place! Glad you sorted that out! And I know the feeling about big fingers on a small smartphone display...
With the exception of the no clicker one the side plates are the same. If they are recomenting 20-30lb I'd go with a 113H although a 112H can do put out enough drag for 30lb. My 113HN Tank is light and it does the job.
Karl, do you mean 25-30 lbs of drag, or line weight?
If line weight, you'd be limited to 10 lbs drag weight, or less - 25 to 30% of the line weight is the guideline. 112H would do, I guess.
If you mean drag pressure, that's a whole new ball game. 80 - 100 lbs line weight, and 113H (N?) at a minimum.
Check this out. It explains it well.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=733.0
Simon
Quote from: slgriffiths on March 29, 2013, 10:52:49 PM
Karl, do you mean 25-30 lbs of drag, or line weight?
If line weight, you'd be limited to 10 lbs drag weight, or less - 25 to 30% of the line weight is the guideline. 112H would do, I guess.
If you mean drag pressure, that's a whole new ball game. 80 - 100 lbs line weight, and 113H (N?) at a minimum.
Check this out. It explains it well.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=733.0
Simon
When I read up on that excellent post you linked to I guess I was talking about line (and rod) weight. What I've heard and read from halibut fishermen (both regular visitors and guides) is a setup with a 20-30 lbs rod, 0,30mm braid (around 40 lbs) and a reel with "a lot of drag". A lot of them uses the Accurate BX400X for example. I didn't find any listing of the drag for that reel in the specs on Accurate's website though.
/Karl
Just a thought about "balancing" your setup after reading the article linked by Simon a couple of posts back. I get sooo frustrated and confused when rod manufacturers talks about "line weight" when they should be talking about drag. To my understanding the rating of the line isn't an issue as long as it's rated higher than your drag setting. Right? And the drag setting should be set in balance with the fish you are fishing and the rod you are using. So why talk about line weight when you talk about rods? Aarrrgghh!
Quote from: Mandelstam on March 29, 2013, 11:41:23 PM
Aarrrgghh!
Yup!
And different manufactures figure it out differently ???. In Alaska I used 50lb line on a Daiwa 30-50 rod.
You got it, Kurt.
All my rods are now labelled with a little printed label with what I've assessed is its max. drag weight by putting a good working curve in the rod, and reading the force needed to do so. Even made a jig to do it - a spare reel seat with a scale attached, tied to 100lb braid, and then threaded through the rod guides to any fixed object.
That's a bit off topic, I guess, but now you've got the info to select your reel.
Good luck with your halibut fishing!
Simon
I THINK the 113H will be the right size if I pimp it up. Will keep a look out on ebay for a suitable victim.
Thanks again!
/Karl
Quote from: slgriffiths on March 30, 2013, 01:52:21 AM
You got it, Kurt.
Who are you calling Kurt, Sam? ;)
Again, thanks for the input, love you guys!
/KARL
Ooops!
Sorry, Karl.
Simon
I was like "who is this Kurt he's talking to?"
:)
/K
I recall you were thinking if using 30# braided line. If that is the case, I would recommend the 112HN. Even with a 113H yellow tail special (113HN), you are looking at holding gobs and gobs of line.
Quote from: Bryan Young on March 30, 2013, 04:44:07 PM
I recall you were thinking if using 30# braided line. If that is the case, I would recommend the 112HN. Even with a 113H yellow tail special (113HN), you are looking at holding gobs and gobs of line.
I was thinking that I could spool on some mono on the bottom of the spool and finish off with enough braid.
I'm starting to think that a 113H is the way to go, with it being more robust than the 112H.
I'm planning to pair the reel with a Seeker Hercules blank, 7'2", either a 15-30 lbs or a 30-60 lbs. Or at least that is the blanks I'm leaning towards at the moment.
I want to have a good 12-20 lbs setup as well, maybe with a spinner (Slammer or Spinfisher V), and have that setup when not targeting large halibut. And maybe the 112H will be too close in specs if you want to be able to step up from the lighter gear?
Dacron makes better backing, if you can't find any I know how to ship stuff to Scandinavia relatively cheep.
Dacron makes a good backing because it is bulky and fills up more of the spool. As far as rod length in the Pacific northwest conventional wisdom for halibut rod length is 4 to 6 feet for better leverage and less tiring to jig for hours.
I agree[Dacron makes better backing,] But I only bottom fish & deep sea jig my senators all have dacron is the best backing for Deep sea used to use all dacron till they came up w/better modern braids/spectra.I know it is Old reel That Nobody uses anymore, but i like my 349h it is slightly modified (thanks,to the guys here & smoothdrag.com) you could haul up an anchor with that reel. It handles norweigan jigs 14 to 24oz 200- 400ft deep no problem. I had a blue shark on he stole a nice pollack & a $20 jig when he broke my leader& rod. Boy that reel screamed. If i ever get to take that dream trip to norway or alaska thats the reel i'm taking with me. I think The 113h "Tank" would be an awesome for this style of fishing too.Happy Easter& Tight Lines, Rich
Thanks for the tip on dacron, I have a reel full that I never use.
:)
/Karl
My best reference would be the 330LDs I've used for fishing in 200 meters of water off of Washington. We have pulled up 180+ halibut with those reels. They have the same spool size as a 113H but are not as strong as a tank. For deep water bottom fishing I really think running a standard width Tank would be preferrable. This will give you the line capacity you need for heavier than 30 pound line. I would like much heavier line like 60-80 pound braid.
Ron
I'm looking at some online auction sites to find a nice 113h to start fiddling with. Mostly quite recent ones with a graphite frame are available. As I live in Sweden the market for old Penns are not as big as in the US, and shipping costs make it quite expensive to buy one from over seas.
One question: will the "vintage" red sideplates fit on a newer model with a graphite frame? I really love the old sideplates with the sailfish and the waves and are thinking of buying a couple of vintage sideplates for my TANK. Just for the good looks.
Non PRC 113H side plated will fit, 113 and 113H-2 (PRC) will not.
Quote from: Keta on April 02, 2013, 06:43:29 AM
Non PRC 113H side plated will fit, 113 and 113H-2 (PRC) will not.
113 and 113H2 I know, but what does PRC stand for?
Peoples Republic of China.
Quote from: Keta on April 02, 2013, 12:20:41 PM
Peoples Republic of China.
;) Easy schmeasy!
Thanks!
I've now found myself a candidate. I posted a WTB ad on a Swedish fishing forum and a couple of days later a guy PM'd me and had a nice 113h for sale for a good price. And it already has the full Tiburon frame. Will receive it this week.
The guy told me that he bought it from a "Penn freak" in the US (someone here maybe? :)) He also said that to his knowledge the reel has the original spool. My first plan was to find an all stock reel and buy a Tiburon narrow kit with spool. But this was to good an offer to refuse. But how about the spool? Is there any benefits to changing it to an aluminum spool? How much weight do you gain? I'm just wondering if it's worth importing a spool with all the hassle and shipping costs involved.
/Karl
If it already has a Tib frame, it may have a standard width Penn aluminum spool. This may be a good choice for your intended application, depending on the depth of water. It would hold about 100 yards of 30 lb monofiliment line more than the Tib narrow kit. Just disassemble the reel for complete inspection and determine what modifications may have already been made, if any, so you will know how to procede.
According to photos the sideplates looks to be a bit older (sailfish+waves). So my thought was that it could be a steel spool. It that's the case, is there a big difference between aluminum and steel weight wise? Or is there another reason one should choose aluminum?
It would only be a guess, but the chrome spool might be about 6 oz. heavier. I think they are chrome over bronze, not steel. Some of the guys that posted on your deleted thread might have some insight as to the advantages of one over the other for your intended use..
The chromed brass 349 spool I replaced with an aluminum one was considerably heavier. If you can go with aluminum.
We'll se what the spool looks like when it gets here. And then maybe I'll keep a lookout for a lighter spool.
Thanks!
/Karl
If it's for halibut fishing only you will be fine with the brass spool. Spool weight only comes into play when casting.
Ron
Thanks for the input! The reason I was wondering about the weight was that I'd like to keep the overall weight down on the reel.
I saw Alto Mares post (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.msg55013;topicseen#msg55013 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.msg55013;topicseen#msg55013)) where he compared the weight between a Tank and a stock reel. As he said, 5oz is a lot of weight for a fishing reel. And I'm guessing the spool had something to do with that weight difference. But how much I don't know. And I know that was a narrow frame and spool, so his Tank isn't fully comparable with mine. Guess I'm just curious. :)
Don't forget to count the weight of the fishing line. Braid will be a lot heavier than mono by the sure volume of line on the reel to fill the reel up.
Quote from: Bryan Young on April 08, 2013, 07:26:53 PM
Don't forget to count the weight of the fishing line. Braid will be a lot heavier than mono by the sure volume of line on the reel to fill the reel up.
Good point.. :/ Guess I really could save some weight by spooling it up with 200lb mono. Which I wont. ;)
That reminds me of something else. A lot of people I talk to is really particulate about balancing their rod and reel so it has perfect balance just about where the reel is mounted. But what happens when you hang a 5oz lure on there and have a lever of 6-7-8 feet? I guess I can see the point in real UL fishing but not with "normal" setups. I'm not saying you should have a totally unbalanced rod+reel but I wouldn't worry about a couple of inches here and there. As soon you have pressure from the lure (or fish) it's not balanced anymore anyway.. Or have I missed something?
I like to have a balanced rod considering the lure weight and reel I'm using. Balance is best because when you are fighting the fish, you are only fighting pressure of the fish.
With that said, it is not always possible, and therefore, don't worry about it.
Got the reel today! :) Looks and feel good in my eyes. Haven't opened it up yet because I couldn't find my damn screwdriver! Grrr!!
But it has nice free spool and smells nice of oil and grease. Just the way I like 'em! :)
I paid around $70 for it. Think I made a good deal, with the Tib frame and all.
(http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o677/Tottofagrin/Penn%20113H/IMG_2778_zps25a88cfc.jpg)
(http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o677/Tottofagrin/Penn%20113H/IMG_2773_zps66214d42.jpg)
(http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o677/Tottofagrin/Penn%20113H/IMG_2775_zpse49c60c8.jpg)
Karl, looks like a REALLY good deal for $70.00? Looks in great shape. Great starting point with this one. Can't wait to see what you do with it. Best of luck with it.
Bob
Yea I'm pretty! I thought I was looking at atleast $70 for an ok stock reel and then another $100+ for the tib frame.
Normally I'm pretty lousy at making good deals but sometimes even I will have a stroke of luck. :D
Took the reel apart. It has a new upgraded dragstack (5+1) but otherwise everything is stock parts. But in good shape. :)
But man, that spool is heavy. I weighed it to be exactly 300g (10.5 oz). No wonder it has good free spool. When that spool starts moving nothing is going to stop it, hehe :). If I cleaned the bearings and put a few drops of Rocketfuel oil in there that spool would still be spinning since this morning.
That`s a bargain Karl! Looks to be in good condition too. You will have a lot of fun with it. I like that older model a lot.
Quote from: basto on April 12, 2013, 07:58:36 PM
That`s a bargain Karl! Looks to be in good condition too. You will have a lot of fun with it. I like that older model a lot.
Yea, isn't it beautiful? I love it. Too bad Tiburon didn't match their anodizing to the red of the side plates. I'm thinking of stripping the anodizing and polishing it to as close to chrome instead...
It's summer, even in Norway! Are you fishing with this reel? :D
Karl: we haven't heard any news about the modified 113 h or fish that it caught. Report in. Dominick
Wow Karl!
You got a good deal on that reel. I got all my parts to tank out my 113h. I only had one and it was a nice full frame that already had the 5+1 stack in it. I bought another one with posts for 50 bucks for the Tank.
Personally, if I were going after Halibut that big. I would sleep better with a 114h with Tib frame and 30 to 80 senator rod at 5'6". 6/0's are very abundant and cheap. Just my two cents.
Here is one of my 114's on a gold Tib Frame and roller rod. (2nd from left)
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/navarrerods2_zps40a8939b.jpg)
Here is a 114h on the senator rod that I speak of on the right.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_1975_zps01fb1ad6.jpg)
Karl,
Even if the reel has no guts inside, $70 is still a great deal for the sideplates, Tib frame and spool.
Hey guys!
Reporting in.. Been on vacation and I sort of left my brain, computer and phone at work... ;)
The reel isn't done, still slowly collecting parts. I'm not going to Norway until September 2014 so I have time left.
My plans for the reel is this:
- Stainless gear and pinion (got a kit from Alan at Black Pearl)
- Stainless double dogs
- Stainless yoke
- New drag stack
- Narrow frame and spool (Tiburon or Jvariance, haven't decided yet)
- New bigger handle. Will try to make a grip from my beautiful piece of Lignum Vitae I have lying around. Just needs a bit of shaping. The plan is to get a kolekar handle setup from Alan and then see if I can switch out the grip for my custom one
As the fishing is mostly done in quite shallow water I don't feel I need the line capacity I have now with the full width Tiburon frame. I'm thinking of keeping it as a backup If I need the extra yards and just switch frames and spool the night before... Or just get another old 113h:) (yea, sounds like a better plan, don't you think?)
I really want to finish this so I can show you guys... You're the reason this reel will come into existence. I've made a list of parts that I need to order, and as soon as I have funds available I will!
Cheers!
/Karl