I am going to the source here. I just scored another 16/0 on ebay for $550 + $25 shipping. My guys on sharks on the sand say I have a 3 piece spool model that won't hold up. What's the deal? Is this true?
Hook me up Sal. I want to take this beast to the beach.
Those three piece spools were definitely not made for mono. During the time, linen (Cuttyhunk) line was used, and maybe Dacron. Even Dacron did stretch a little and some spool breakage would occur on the big reels that were exposed to high pressure (as you are proposing). The typical drill was to take out the line after fighting a large fish, let the line "rest" (come back to its original state), and then rewind it back on the reel. Not doing this may sometimes result in the spool being distorted after a while as the line tried to return to its original state.
I have used the old spools with mono, but only with 200 to 500 yards, and the spools held up. These were on reels in the 4/0 to 9/0 sizes. The pressures encountered with fighting fish in that class doesn't compare to what one would expect from the stuff you'd hang on to with a 16/0.
If I were in your shoes, I'd keep the reel as a historical item or sell it to a collector (as I've done with all of my three-piece spool reels). For work reels, I only use the one-piece spool Senators. Keep in mind that even though the one-piece spools are much stronger, I've also had one on a 12/0 break from the pressure of the line being cranked in under lots of pressure. No, this was not boat fishing, but from shore as you are planning to do, and the pressure from the much greater length of line held by a 16/0 would be a lot higher (translation: if the pressure is enough to break a one-piece spool 12/0, that same pressure would easily break a three-piece spool 16/0). You can do a lot of damage with a good one-piece spool 16/0. You'd have a very difficult time replacing the three-piece spool if, and when, it does break (and then the reel would be useless as a tool and as a collector's item).
On this island, we have seen a ton of Senators come and go over the (few) years I've been around. I've also had my share of them from 4/0 up to 14/0. I've never come across a three-piece spool 16/0, and only a few one-piece spool 16/0. The three-piece spool models broke so people threw them away. By the time Penn started coming out the with one-piece spool models, people had already started using such things as the Internationals, Everols, Finors, instead, because they didn't trust the Senator spools, brakes, or frames, for really big game.
How do you know if you have a three piece spool? I've got 14/0s I'd like to spool up with mono.
Here is the difference between a one piece and a three piece. The three piece has the red handle.
Thanks for that
It is the little bump you see between the spindle and the flange of the spool that is the joint area for the separate pieces (not the fact the handle is red ;D). One-piece spools are smoothly curved at this point.
I know. I was just making sure he knew the red handle was the three piece. Usually the handle has been changed out at some point anyway. This one hasn't. Red handle indicates it was made in the fifty's.
if red handle reels were made in the fifties, can you tell me when the other coloured handle Senators were made?
I have a 113h and a 114h with amber (yellow) handles and I think they were made in the seventies, but always wondered about when the green, white etc handles were made.
Basto
G'day Basto,
I've heard the following, but can't authenticate the source:
Amber = '30-'40s, red = '50s, green = '60s, white = '70s, black = '80s and rubber = '90s onwards.This thread may be of some interest:
- http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=19.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=19.0)
Cheers, Justin
Wow!! Thanks Justin...that blows me away! This means my 2 Senators are much older than I thought. The more I learn about these old reels, the more respect I have for them.(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/george8322/P1010431_zps5a415575.jpg)
Can't depend on colors, shape of the knob has some to do with it also. The knob on the right is older. Many changed the knobs along the way and most are not accurate.
I'm going to guestimate that your reels are about 50 years old.
Hi Sal
I must say, I think these knobs and handle arms would outlast anything that replaces them, specialy anything with a bearing in it.
Do you think the hand grip material would be the same as the sideplate material?
Quote from: basto on June 20, 2013, 03:40:51 AM
Hi Sal
I must say, I think these knobs and handle arms would outlast anything that replaces them, specialy anything with a bearing in it.
Do you think the hand grip material would be the same as the sideplate material?
I agree with you. There is one out there that can copete with those, that one comes from Alan. I believe his knob shaft is made out of stainless.
I'm not sure if the material would be the same as the sideplates, but it would make sense if it was. They were frugal those days.
There's some great info on this thread, I'm surprised considering the sheer amount of stuff that on the net that no one has set up a site about Penn reels, their history and how to tell how old they are from different features on the reels.
I am learning as I go. This is definitely the place for it. There is a wealth of knowledge here.
I am glad to meet these fine Gentleman! They will pass their passion on to the next generation, as will I.
Check out the size of the oil port on your red knob above. I believe they stopped making those during the mid 50's.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on June 19, 2013, 08:48:50 PM
I know. I was just making sure he knew the red handle was the three piece. Usually the handle has been changed out at some point anyway. This one hasn't. Red handle indicates it was made in the fifty's.
I knew that ;)
But, I had assumed the handle colour was somewhat random on all Penn multiplier reels as I remembr seeing all the red, amber and green handles when I was younger and drooled at the big Senators in the shop window during the '60s and later. Specifically, it was the two tackle shops in Looe, Cornwall, that organised sharking trips. They had displays of 4/0 to 16/0 Senators that made me fall in love ::) .
Only recently (well, relatively speaking) have handles all been black; and then I bought some older Senators (a 6/0 and a 9/0) with white handles. Only then did I notice that white handles have different shapes, slightly, and I wonder how old they might be. The 9/0 has ball-bearings so isn't the earliest model and the 6/0 looks to be a standard black plate model.
As has bene said before, this place is a source of great information!
You're showing your age Chris ;D
I also fell in love with them and still love them, at times more that my wife ;D.
When they talk back to you its always exciting....not the wife, the reels ;)
You are scaring me Sal! :'(
Look who's talking ::) ;D
What's the matter, don't you like when the reel talks back to you ? That clicker sound is the best sound of all. ;)
Ok, you got me. Me and my reels talk to each other too.
Especially after a couple shots of Bourbon! :P
Rauma,
In my opinion, the reason no one has made a "serious" compilation is because there was very little continuity. What I mean is, when the workers had left over parts from year to year they wouldn't shelf them or sell at clearance prices... instead they would use them in whatever they could put them in. The other reason would be that when Penn's workers had spare time they were allowed to work on their own projects. That is how I have "Big Red." At first I was thinking my red plated 9/0 was a prototype, but I now believe a worker did that and not Penn as a company. The only way Penn made that was if they were thinking of introducing a 9/0 high speed :-\ I've heard stories of the woman who was in charge of picking out the reel's handle color and by the looks of things she did her own thing.
Unfortunately, now a days there are very few old Penn reels that haven't been messed with and turned into "franken-reels" to either replace missing/ broken parts or deceive potential buyers, so it's getting harder to find all original.
Shark Hunter,
You're not gonna want to use that spool for sharking, as the others have said. That mono will "python" your spool until Pa-Pow! I think a 14/0 with aluminum spool would work best for your application, no?
Best of luck,
Dom
I have two 14's already spooled with 130lb mono. However, they are the chrome over brass spools. I think I'm good with those. Chime in Makule. I know you fish the 14 for Sharks. I never really thought about the spool on those. Do you use the Brass ones, or aluminum?
I've been working out how to get that lovely 9/0 clicker sound on to my phone as a ring tone ;D
Though the disappointment when I realise it is not a strike but only someone trying to sell me insurance or double-glazing from a call centre in who-knows-where might be too much to bear. >:(
Let them speak to me - the reels I mean.
I just love the sound of my newly cleaned Int.30 when I turn the handle - such a lovely purr :P