Hi everyone,
I am relatively new to the site and love to tinker and rebuild old reels. I just like the ways the older reels are made although based on cost perspective it could be said that buying a new modern reel is probably better. That said i have a question that perplexed me. I have a digital hand scale (luggage scale) that I calibrated with known weights and everything is on the up and up. When I set the drag by hand, what i thought is about right (line coming of the reel with a lot of hand pressure) surprised me. When I hooked the scale to the line, put the rod in a holder at about 45 degrees, I am surprised to see reading of 5-7 lbs at most, Tightening the drag and I get maybe 10-11 lbs. On the other side of it, I made a loop in the line and tied it to a fixed post about chest height and have a heck of a tine holding onto the rod while I lifted the rod to simulate the pull from a fish. Is this normal? I keep reading about everyone able to get 15-17 even 25 lbs of drags from their reels and wonder how do you guys accurately measured it. is fishing 18-25 lbs of drags even feasible?
Thanks,
Mike
What reel?
When I am checking drag for fishing I attach my drag scale to something solid, then lift my rod until line goes out.
I have several reels that put out drag in the 18-30 pound range, a few that will do 40lb. It's hard for me to go over 28lbs for an extended fight but I will max out the reel for the last 100' or so on a large fish.
keta,
I have a progear 541 that i upgraded with ss dogs, ss sleeve, ss gears, ss yoke, carbontex drags and ss washers. I can get smooth drags at about 12 lbs (looped line at end of rod to scale and i pulled until the drag released). Tightened down I get about 15-16 lbs. I have not truly tightened the drag down pliers or anything. I get the slightly less on my newell 229, 332, and 338.
Thanks
Two schools of thought on this. Many people hold the rod at a 45 degree angle, with the scale attached to the end of the line and have someone pull on the scale until the drag slips. This measures the resistance through the guides plus the actual drag. I have found that pulling the line straight off the reel give you a reading that is within a pound or so of the other way and can be done by yourself. It really depends on how accurate the reading has to be. Fishing 80-100 lb line, a pound or two of drag doesn't mean much. Fishing 10-12 lb line is a different story. Fishing 18-25 lbs of drag is not only feasible, it's very common. As Lee said, much over that is hard unless you are in very good shape or are using the rail or a chair. I think your 541 should be capable of more drag, since it has 4/0 gears and drags (depending on if they are stock or beefed up).
Quote from: maxpowers on September 06, 2013, 04:58:50 AM
keta,
I have a progear 541 that i upgraded with ss dogs, ss sleeve, ss gears, ss yoke, carbontex drags and ss washers. I can get smooth drags at about 12 lbs (looped line at end of rod to scale and i pulled until the drag released). Tightened down I get about 15-16 lbs. I have not truly tightened the drag down pliers or anything. I get the slightly less on my newell 229, 332, and 338.
Thanks
I'm not familiar with those reels but that sounds about right.
D1,
I want to know what my drag is doing in as close to a fishing situation as possible when setting my drag.
Thanks for all the reply. For a follow-on question, do you measure your drag from a full spool, or half spool? All my drag settings have been from full spool so that would mean that if I get to half the spool my effective drag is double, ie 10 pounds at full = 20 lbs at half?
Thanks,
Full spool.
Quote from: maxpowers on September 06, 2013, 04:30:42 PM
Thanks for all the reply. For a follow-on question, do you measure your drag from a full spool, or half spool? All my drag settings have been from full spool so that would mean that if I get to half the spool my effective drag is double, ie 10 pounds at full = 20 lbs at half?
Thanks,
This would only matter if you were truly testing your gear, but remember that the drag isn't doubled until you are at half the diameter of a full spool. In a reel with a large arbor this can be considerably past half full.
Ron
I use a 50lb scale, my biggest reel puts out 35lbs or so, 9/0 with a soured up 5+1 stack. If I really lock it down, I max out a 50lb scale. Probably shouldnt try that
Quote from: noyb72 on September 07, 2013, 03:29:17 AM
Quote from: maxpowers on September 06, 2013, 04:30:42 PM
Thanks for all the reply. For a follow-on question, do you measure your drag from a full spool, or half spool? All my drag settings have been from full spool so that would mean that if I get to half the spool my effective drag is double, ie 10 pounds at full = 20 lbs at half?
Thanks,
This would only matter if you were truly testing your gear, but remember that the drag isn't doubled until you are at half the diameter of a full spool. In a reel with a large arbor this can be considerably past half full.
Ron
So let's take a reel life example of the recent trip Alan had. The headline fish was the 134 lbs bluefin caught on an Andros 5 with 50 lbs hollow braid and 40 lbs fluorocarbon. Based upon the report, the fish took quite a bit of line and the spool was nearly emptied several time. Assuming that Alan set the drag at 1/3 of the breaking strength of the fluoro ~ 13 lbs at strike, can we inferred that during the fight, the fluoro and the knots experienced at least 26+ lbs of drags? So based on the manufacturer specs, the andros has 15 lbs at strike and 24 lbs at full. Did the reel experienced more drags than the listed specs?
Thanks
Drag settings are considering full spool settings and not near the arbor...so yes, it's possible for any reel to achieve greater drag pressure than listed, but then the ratings would have greater inaccuracy. That is why drag settings are based on full spools to provide a level of uniformity in measuring drag pressure or line tension before the spool slips.
Quote from: Bryan Young on September 07, 2013, 05:25:08 AM
Drag settings are considering full spool settings and not near the arbor...so yes, it's possible for any reel to achieve greater drag pressure than listed, but then the ratings would have greater inaccuracy. That is why drag settings are based on full spools to provide a level of uniformity in measuring drag pressure or line tension before the spool slips.
Let's say for example the reel can experienced up to 3-4 times the initial drag setting. For those who fished with 20+ lbs of drags, they could in theory be fishing with 40 to 80+ lbs of drags as the line get closer to the end of the spool. Hence my initial question of is it feasible to really fish with 18-25 lbs of initial drag of a full spool.
Thanks.
I believe you are trying to over think this. I'm not sure where the "half the spool height, double the drag" came from, but even if it was true, as was noted above, a lot depends on the spool arbor diameter. In other words, you can never go to "0" spool height, so you can't keep doubling the drag. The spool shaft would be "0" height. So, yes it is feasible to use 18-25 lbs drag, depending on the line test, and most anglers know to back off the drag in certain circumstances, all your line out being one of them. If you use 20 lbs of drag, then you should be using 60-80 lb line (1/4-1/3 the breaking strength), so doubling the drag still has you below the breaking strength of the line, but is getting near most knots breaking strength.
Quote from: day0ne on September 07, 2013, 07:28:56 AM
I believe you are trying to over think this. I'm not sure where the "half the spool height, double the drag" came from, but even if it was true, as was noted above, a lot depends on the spool arbor diameter. In other words, you can never go to "0" spool height, so you can't keep doubling the drag. The spool shaft would be "0" height. So, yes it is feasible to use 18-25 lbs drag, depending on the line test, and most anglers know to back off the drag in certain circumstances, all your line out being one of them. If you use 20 lbs of drag, then you should be using 60-80 lb line (1/4-1/3 the breaking strength), so doubling the drag still has you below the breaking strength of the line, but is getting near most knots breaking strength.
Hi,
I found a video that show what i suspected all along. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-1EZ6BrtJA
Thanks,
Having the clicker on will give you an inaccurate reading.
For large fish I set my reels up differently, I have a mark on the reel before "strike" that I set the reel at 1/3 of the rod's rating or line breaking strength (the lighter of the two but rarely over 28lbs) so strike and full are higher. It takes learning but use the rod as an indicator of your drag strength and try to keep the rod as close to fully loaded as you can at all times. Back the drag off or increase it as needed. When the fish is close to the boat I can go past strike and use more power to bring it to gaff, I seldom go all the way up. This is how I like to fish for large YFT. My large reels (on 80lb to 150lb class rods) have a 100' section of 200lb spectra spliced on the end of the 130lb spectra main line with 10'-30' mono topshots from 80lb to 150 lb.
Interesting video. Several comments. If you look around 7:51, he stripped that reel almost to the arbor, not 1/3 to 1/2 way down like he said and he closed his hand around both the line and the rod while he got his reading, which brings up the second observation. That was the lightest 50 lb rod I ever saw. It looked closer to a 20 or 30 lb rod, which will affect the results.
The zero point would be the offset between the surface of the spool and the center of the spool shaft. When fighting a fish, remember that they breathe by moving. If you stick it to them hard in the beginning, they suffocate esp. with pelagic species that must move at a fair rate to keep up with metabolic rates thus their diving and ascending in the water column to maintain their needs.
You're going to want to back off a bit when your spool gets low. If the line is dumping out fast, adjust. Drag pressure is a starting point. When fighting a fish, you're drag setting should be dynamic. People who fish a static drag setting see a lot of lost fish. Time on the water will prove this rule. It goes from being a scientific approach to an artform.