Hello, sirs, I'd like to push my 9/0 to the max as so many others have done, but part of me wants to keep the original parts. Reel itself is in very nice condition, very little wear. How much drag do you think a stock 9/0 could take before failing? 115 chrome spool. Drag levels increased by just upgrading the washers. No failure, no spool sleeve slipping, gears breaking or slipping, or any other parts warping or failing, I'm especially concerned about the reel foot.....What do ya fellas think? Thanks!!
I've had mine at 35lbs no problem
It's difficult to reply as it's unclear what you mean when you say, "failing", with regard to the drag. At some point all drags will release: That's what they're supposed to do. If you have an exceedingly long, and high speed strike, when the drag is very tight, then the disks might burn and "fail". CF disks will reduce this possibility, but they still do compress and "burn".
I do not know what you mean by, "spool sleeve" and "spool sleeve slipping".
Gears will not slip. Failure occurs when they break or severely distort a tooth (or several). This can happen even with the regular brakes.
If you are using the stock frame, it can distort under very high pressure and cause the spool edge to contact the side plate ring. A severe enough case of this will prevent the reel to be wound under pressure (but the frame can be straightened out later on). The reel foot is reasonably strong. It's when there is a great deal of pressure on one side of the spool that causes the distortion. It's not really a straight-pull force that does it. Rather, a twisting moment.
Makule I think he meant the spool slipping on the shaft. I thnk you would be the expert on the whole distortion thing, the amount of pressure you put on fish is crazy! Didn't you have a 9/0 war one time?
Quote from: Bunnlevel Sharker on October 16, 2013, 08:32:50 PM
I've had mine at 35lbs no problem
Sharker, how are you getting 35lbs.? If I pull line straight out, I will also get 35lbs., but if you bend the rod while testing, you will get less.
Here is something interesting:
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/Dawn/002_zps4e7cedb2.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/Dawn/002_zps4e7cedb2.jpg.html)
With a straight pull and the star tight all the way, I was only able to get 30lbs. with the 7+1 and 35lbs. with the 5+1. Washers size does have something to do with it, Dawn's washers were a little smaller in size.
Alto,
When I set/test my drags with a scale, if I do a strait pull, which is line comming strait off the reel and not run through the guides yet I get a number, lets say 10lbs. Now if I leave the drag set there and run the line through the guides and retest that 10 pounds of drag always increases. The amount of increase will vary do to things like dry or wet line, length of rod and if running spectra or mono lines. This is true for all my reels and I do put a bend in the rod, some fully loaded up at the max bend for the line rating for the rod, when I run the line through the guides and retest.
Sorry Dynamo I have not fished a 9/0 Pen.
It's difficult to reply as it's unclear what you mean when you say, "failing", with regard to the drag.Makule I think he meant the spool slipping on the shaft.
Hello folks, I meant failure of any kind, not drag disk failure, reel foot bending, spool shaft slipping or bending, gears failing. Thanks for all the replies, folks, keep 'em coming!
Bluefin Tuna 0ver 1000lbs. were landed in the past with the 9/0 and that was before any upgrades. You should be able to handle anything in the water, using a 9/0.
Yes, it is a little heavy, but weight doesn't bother guys from the right side of the coast as much as the left.
We're getting stainless steel gears with a 3.25:1 ratio soon, installing 7+1 or 9+1 washers will make that reel nice and smooth, or you could go with the hex cut gears, they're also very smooth using less washers. A nice power handle would also be nice.
I have a 5 stack with cf under the gear, stock ht-100. It's a straight pull, locked down as tight as I could get it. My max fishing range for the reel with no frame would be around 30
Thanks for the replies guys! So you think the reel could handle 40? I'm likely not going use all of the drag pressure, but it'll be nice to have and get a feel of large drag pressure. I have no doubt the 9/0 can handle huge fish. I recall a 1960s caught land based tiger In the keys, weighed over 1000. I have no idea how they pulled that off. I've seen the pics, reel was spooled up with 50 class Dacron. It could probably handle over 99 percent of anything I'll run into, but I'm always overkill.
My custom 114H ( 6/0) with hex cut gears holds over 50lbs. The 9/0 has a beefier pinion gear.
Mr Tani said in another post about how 10 percent more drag is added by friction on the guides. I'm confused. Sal, do you use rods with extra slick guides or something :-\ ? And the more the rod is exerted the more friction on the guides, meaning more pressure on the fish, right? Wow, I'm surprised your 6/0s reel foot is still intact!
Not fished at 50#, tested holding 50# on an unlimited rod. I don't believe anyone can hold on to those numbers.
Reel doesn't stress much at high settings if it's functioning smoothly, this is the main reason we're pushing them. A stock 6/0 is not as smooth as my custom 6/0 at its high settings.
Still, 50 is a lot for a stock 6 to hold. Yes, 50 is a lot, but I find ways to cheat when using high drag, (aka employing railing and tucking my legs around the railing posts for support. Beach fishing I use long butts, up to 24 inches, they dig in the sand and act as a rod holder. Boat fishing high drag numbers is easy, tighten drag and leave rod in holder. Maybe not sporting but if you wanna fish those numbers and not swim with the fishies a little guy like me does what he has to do! (ps I've never met a fish which actually could have or did pull 50, but other people use that technique and it works like a charm and very well with smaller fish.)) sounds sneaky do traditional iGFA anglers but higher drag wears fish out quicker, equals to better releases. usually on smaller fish I like to get a fight out of them and hold the rod, no harness. I don't like being middle ground, but that's just me, and I'm weird.
Ive seen a guy get dragged to the rail by a t-rex, the fish was popping off burst at strike. Id take a jacked up 6/0w or 9/0 with frame any day of the week for beach fishin
I probably would too if I fished alot, but I have time to service my reels after every trip. I love my Senators, but I'd probably take a TRX over a 6/0w or 9/0, its smoother.
Quote from: Dynamo on October 16, 2013, 11:27:35 PM
It's difficult to reply as it's unclear what you mean when you say, "failing", with regard to the drag.Makule I think he meant the spool slipping on the shaft.
Hello folks, I meant failure of any kind, not drag disk failure, reel foot bending, spool shaft slipping or bending, gears failing. Thanks for all the replies, folks, keep 'em coming!
The shaft will not separate from the spool according to the way it's made. Even when I cut a broken spool in half (just to see what was inside), I could not take the shaft out. Additionally, I have never heard of, or seen, a spool that became disengaged from the shaft.
Lots of gears get damaged and that's not unexpected when pushing reels to the limit. Sometimes the spools themselves (including the one-piece spools) will break. Aside from that, I can't think of anything else that goes wrong (not counting on drag disk burn).
QuoteI'm always overkill.
Maybe get a bigger reel? There still are a lot bigger, and much stronger, ones than a 9/0.
QuoteDidn't you have a 9/0 warp one time?
Yeah, got twisted by a big hammerhead about 20 yards from shore and I couldn't crank the reel anymore (so it got away).
I have a 12/0 which I love, but I my 9 is a whole lot more fun to fish with. I just love the 50 size reels. I certainly fpdont need 45-50 out of the reel, it would be neat though. 20 yards from shore, eh? Was it a greater hammer? Didn't know you guys in Hawaii shore sharked. I'm worried about my frame twisting as you said, Sal's 6/0 did well at the drag levels in his test but the 9/0 is bigger, wider, thus more unstable. . . . . Perhaps I should keep the 9/0 the way it is and invest in a 50w? Thanks, Makule!
In Hawaii from shore we fish for Ulua, but we catch sharks. Most of what I've seen on Oahu are tigers.
Ron
Sharks are a by-catch, and an undesirable one at that. Hammer heads are not very common. Others, like galapagos, tiger, white tip, grey reef, and the usual species.
Maybe an undesirable by catch, but a lot of fun to fight for me at least. Pretty cool to have Galapagos and white tippers over there. Those ulua look like large crevalle jacks, do they taste like 'em?
I forgot to add a friend was getting spooled one night and locked his 9/0 down with pliers and it's still running strong. Uni-uni the tackle shop guy did failed, we saw line that wehad never seen before, and this reel has caught 10ft fish
What 10 ft fish? Don't doubt ya, i just never turn down a good fish tale. That's a good story. I'd never lock a 9/0 down with pliers, its bad for the reel. I can see your pal was desperate though. 9/0s have landed many a big fish, yet many large fish have thwarted the reliable 9/0. . . . All fish are different, one old wise fat fish will burn you in an instant, yet many others just wont. I've learned not to trust tackle shops in spooling. For example I paid bass pro $20 to spool my 6/0 straight mono 60, he spooled it so loose it crackled when you pressed on the line. Under filled too, he could've filled It up another inch easily. Fit 300 yards, I know I could fit 600. The knot was sloppy too. That was a while ago, I've Hand spooled each one of my reels since.
I meant cranking the star is bad, I'd use upgraded washers for more drag. Even cranking the star down it should still work but washers not last as long.
It was a bull in the 9-10ft range, long fight but he got it in finally. Bull dogged around a bunch. When your gettin spooled the reels general well being goes out the door. The one that spooled him never slowed down or sped up, just kept goin after eatin a big grouper head. We hoped a similar fish on a 6/0w setup for ray fishin with 130lb mono, ate a little trigger fish head and kept goin till the hook pulled
Nice stories. How fast was the run? Slow would have to be a large ray, fast a nice hammer, for sure. . . . .
It wasn't a ray, it felt like a big tiger, I've hear from a few old salts they like triggers
Quote from: Alto Mare on October 17, 2013, 12:10:20 AM
Bluefin Tuna 0ver 1000lbs. were landed in the past with the 9/0 and that was before any upgrades. You should be able to handle anything in the water, using a 9/0.
Yes, it is a little heavy, but weight doesn't bother guys from the right side of the coast as much as the left.
We're getting stainless steel gears with a 3.25:1 ratio soon, installing 7+1 or 9+1 washers will make that reel nice and smooth, or you could go with the hex cut gears, they're also very smooth using less washers. A nice power handle would also be nice.
Sal,
Actually, the coming 115L SS gear set will be 2.8:1. Since 115L shares the same main gear with 114H, therefore, you can use your HEX main gear in your 115L as well.
Please note that the HEX 114H/115L main gear is limited production (50 only). Once they are gone, it will be awhile before I will make them again.
Here is the Hex main gear. Please note that the production main gear will fit original metal washers.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7710.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7710.0)
I stand corrected, sorry Alan, got caught up in the excitement.....thanks for picking that up. ;)
Gear ratio on the 115L is 2.8:1.
Sal
Those gears look nice. Will i need custom washers? Are the pinion cut gears stronger then helicals as avet claims? Are they just being cheap?
Quote from: Dynamo on October 18, 2013, 04:13:01 PM
Those gears look nice. Will i need custom washers? Are the pinion cut gears stronger then helicals as avet claims? Are they just being cheap?
What are "pinion cut gears"? Are those gears that are cut using a cutter shaped like a pinion gear?
Quote from: Dynamo on October 18, 2013, 04:04:12 AM
Maybe an undesirable by catch, but a lot of fun to fight for me at least. Pretty cool to have Galapagos and white tippers over there. Those ulua look like large crevalle jacks, do they taste like 'em?
With one exception, hammer heads, sharks are always undesirable by-catches. Hammers are only good as they can be used for bait.
Ulua are members of the jack group. Several different species are caught. Don't know how jack cravelle tastes, but my guess would be the same.
Quote from: Bunnlevel Sharker on October 18, 2013, 04:15:12 AM
I forgot to add a friend was getting spooled one night and locked his 9/0 down with pliers and it's still running strong. Uni-uni the tackle shop guy did failed, we saw line that wehad never seen before, and this reel has caught 10ft fish
I've noticed that in some cases, with a long, strong, run, apparently the heat from the disks will transfer to the sleeves, causing it to expand. This, in turn, prevents the star from being turned without great difficulty. The brakes actually can't get maximum tightness.
In some other instances, the disks' surfaces are burning and even as the pressure is being increased, the braking power isn't because the surfaces continue to burn and grind away, or glaze over (causing slippage). This is the same thing as "brake fade" on cars when going down a very long hill.
Pinion cut gears are straight cut, Avet uses them. Interesting about the Hammers, they're the ultimate large shore catch for most people, where I come from.
Quote from: Dynamo on October 18, 2013, 04:13:01 PM
Those gears look nice. Will i need custom washers? Are the pinion cut gears stronger then helicals as avet claims? Are they just being cheap?
Well, I know that helical cutting gear set is smoother and quieter than the straight cutting gear set. When it comes to strength between helical and straight cutting, it is base on the teeth on each gear, and how they mesh together. If the teeth are thin on one gear, it will be stripped by the other gear. It depends on the teeth slop (geometry).
That's pretty interesting, thanks!
Quote from: Dynamo on October 18, 2013, 08:36:36 PM
Pinion cut gears are straight cut, Avet uses them. Interesting about the Hammers, they're the ultimate large shore catch for most people, where I come from.
If pinion cut gears are straight cut then,
all else being equal, helical cut gears will be "stronger". The reason is that with helical gears, some of the force is at an angle to the tooth face and, therefore, "diverted" away from the tooth itself. In straight cut gears, the full force is perpendicular to the tooth face. It's akin to the difference between taking a straight on hit, versus a glancing blow.
With helical gears, because some of the force is at an angle to the tooth face, it tends to push the gears in a lateral direction. Ordinarily, it does not cause a problem in fishing reels (because those forces are relatively small).
Hmm, that's interesting, thank you for replying.
Quote from: Makule on October 18, 2013, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: Bunnlevel Sharker on October 18, 2013, 04:15:12 AM
I forgot to add a friend was getting spooled one night and locked his 9/0 down with pliers and it's still running strong. Uni-uni the tackle shop guy did failed, we saw line that wehad never seen before, and this reel has caught 10ft fish
I've noticed that in some cases, with a long, strong, run, apparently the heat from the disks will transfer to the sleeves, causing it to expand. This, in turn, prevents the star from being turned without great difficulty. The brakes actually can't get maximum tightness.
In some other instances, the disks' surfaces are burning and even as the pressure is being increased, the braking power isn't because the surfaces continue to burn and grind away, or glaze over (causing slippage). This is the same thing as "brake fade" on cars when going down a very long hill.
Not just that. Brake fade also occurs because the brakes finally absorb enough heat that it's transferred into the brake fluid. Then the brake fluid boils, and won't compress. You lose your hydraulic action.
Quote from: floating doc on October 24, 2013, 02:44:24 AM
Not just that. Brake fade also occurs because the brakes finally absorb enough heat that it's transferred into the brake fluid. Then the brake fluid boils, and won't compress. You lose your hydraulic action.
Yeah, that too.
If a reel is rated at 25# max and you're able to customize it and increase its capacity to 50#, that custom reel won't get as hot as it once did at 25#.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on October 24, 2013, 05:15:58 AM
If a reel is rated at 25# max and you're able to customize it and increase its capacity to 50#, that custom reel won't get as hot as it once did at 25#.
Sal
Now that is words of Wisdom My Man! ;)
I will use that myself! ;D
Quote from: Shark Hunter on October 24, 2013, 06:08:27 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on October 24, 2013, 05:15:58 AM
If a reel is rated at 25# max and you're able to customize it and increase its capacity to 50#, that custom reel won't get as hot as it once did at 25#.
Sal
Now that is words of Wisdom My Man! ;)
I will use that myself! ;D
That's something I haven't read before. It sure makes sense, assuming that the amount of heat generated at a particular setting is reduced. I'm trained as a scientist so I would love to see this tested.
I will be testing it on a big shark as soon as I get my gears! ;)
Quote from: floating doc on October 24, 2013, 12:53:13 PM
That's something I haven't read before. It sure makes sense, assuming that the amount of heat generated at a particular setting is reduced. I'm trained as a scientist so I would love to see this tested.
Not being disrespectful in any way, but if you are a scientist, how about entertaining us by doing your own test?
I'm not a scientist, I'm just a mason/carpenter, but very good at it ;D.
I used that to my advantage when testing drags by holding weight from a treehouse. I also tested rolling weight with the use of a wagon and some bricks. The stock reel was jerky at weights above 20 lbs. The same reel, with customizations, was much smoother with the same weight.
Smooth drags equal less friction and that equates to less heat. Just common sense...but I may not have much of that ;D
Sal
Hi Sal, no offense taken. I work about 60-70 hours a week, so I don't have time for experiments of my own. Besides, I am sure that I'm not as capable of doing as good a job of designing and executing a test as I've seen here. I've followed your writeups, and you can count me as a fan of yours. My training is in medicine, and anyone with a good understanding of engineering (such as a skilled carpenter/mason) would quickly put me to shame.
I'm only addressing this since I'm trying to understand.
Back to the original question: I don't doubt that a reel at 3/4 of it's drag capacity is going to be smoother than an unmodified version same reel maxed out with equal drag. I was only addressing the heat generated. Whenever any reel pulls x pounds of drag, that energy is converted to heat. At least as far as my understanding of physics goes, the same amount of drag amounts to the same amount of kinetic energy converted to thermal energy/heat.
However (and this addresses your observation that the modified reel is smoother), it could be that the smoother (modified) reel is generating less heat at the same setting because it's not having "spikes" in the drag setting that would occur if the drag was inconsistent (jerky). In addition, the higher quality parts like stainless gears may dissipate the heat better.
Adding drag washers would do the same thing: same amount of force distributed over a greater area should result in less heat per washer, although no less total heat since the drag setting is the same.
So as I said before, it makes sense if you consider that the modified reel might either dissipate heat better, or produce less heat or both. I want to emphasize that I never intended my comment to seem that I was questioning your observation. I'm just wondering how it works.
This wasn't a matter of you questioning me floating doc, I just wanted to use your knowledge to help out ;).
My simple testing can only give us so much, as I've mentioned before, these need to be tested on the water....that will answer most of our questions.
My shelves are getting emptied....NOT... ;D, I have a few reels and some parts out there getting tested, we'll see how that goes.
These tests could go either way, if they do fail, it will still be good for us to know.
I do believe we have something good here.
Sal
Ps you're working too many hours, leave some time for fishing ;)
Time for fishing... :'(
I'm working on it anyhow. I'm taking my 9 year old son on a party boat for a half day on the 11th, weather permitting. I'm also checking forum member interest for a two day bottom fishing trip in the gulf next year. I can't afford a trip to San Diego.
There's nothing like a real world test.
I know what you are saying Doc. I'm not working 70 hours a week, but steady 60's. 12 hours a day Monday thru Friday. I won't be able to get to the coast next may. I can't afford the San Diego Trip either. I just keep going to work and try not to think about what else I could be doing instead. Someone has to do it.
The Party Boat sounds fun! Winter is already setting in here in Kentucky. Its going to be 29 degrees tonight!
I will be giving those Hex gears a workout come May! ;)