Hello, just looking to survey some people on the methods they use for constructing hollow core splices
i just use 6 feet of 27 pound single strand wire and bend it in half. it's great for splices and hollowcore loops!
Bent wire works for me, if that is what you are asking
google Basil Papas. hes a master if there ever was one. Most of my experience is no needle with heavy mono, i use a 24in long piece of 61lb wire that has been bent in half, then run it up 5-6ft then work it out. then just inchworm it in, and backbraid the top loop
Wire, or Daho needles. I find the most used needle is the smallest Daho reverse latch needle.
For connections I like a loop to loop, the fastest way to change toppers, after you have the topshots made. Then they are other connections, in no special order, Sato crimp, serve, nail nub knot, reverse Albright knot and some even use a overhand knot....not me though.
For non hollow braid I have become a big fan of the Yucatan knot. Easy and strong. I usually tie my mono on with it and use surgeon's loops to connect floro leaders. That has worked for me for ever with fly rods and it seems to work just as well with bigger gear.
Ron
Hello Everyone,
Thanks for all the great responses!!! I have another inquiry, what is everyone's preferred method for gluing the serve? Do you glue the spliced area then apply the serve, or apply the serve then glue the serve itself, or combine the methods together and glue the spliced area, serve, and then glue the serve? Also what is your preferred adhesive? JB 2 step glue, Loctite 406, Zap a Gap, or something else?
Any information would be greatly appreciated!
i don't use glue at all. i figure if the knot is going to give, glue will not help.
Hi Alan,
Interesting, I see that Basil uses glue on his wind-ons do you feel it provides no advantage?
I do a bowstring serve then a little glue on the very tip of the braid for no frazel. If u glue to much it defeats the finger trap
Quote from: JayMak79 on October 18, 2013, 01:32:40 AM
Hi Alan,
Interesting, I see that Basil uses glue on his wind-ons do you feel it provides no advantage?
i'm a fatalist! ;D
As I understand it, the glue is to keep the served line together. If the glue doesn't contact either braid or mono you should be good.
Ron
The spider hitch is also very strong and easy enough to tie in a hurry...
I find a little heat on the wrap ends has eliminated the need for glue on my setups.
So here's one for you. I have a couple reels that I don't see me ever needing to swap mono on the fly. Has anyone ever ran solid braid into a piece of hollow on one end and the mono out the other instead of using a knot? Seems like a solid way of doing it.
Ron
Should work fine as long as the hollow is kept tight via the correct length. I would whip the ends to make sure that happens.
Quote from: noyb72 on October 18, 2013, 10:45:27 PM
So here's one for you. I have a couple reels that I don't see me ever needing to swap mono on the fly. Has anyone ever ran solid braid into a piece of hollow on one end and the mono out the other instead of using a knot? Seems like a solid way of doing it.
Ron
Jerry Brown said that you could tied an overhand knot where the solid braid entered the hollow and it would be 100%. I think once you do that it would be easier just to make a loop into the hollow braid and then you can make loop to loop connection to your leader.
I was just reading at Paulus Just Fishing, under the knots tested, Suffix Performance Braid mainline tested in an overhand knot, main line at 31.4lb, broke at 17.5lb in the knot and mainline. My personal experience with Suffix Performance braid indicates this level of performance, so maybe it is not the best line to reference for a knot test. I just find it harder to believe an overhand knot would be a 100% knot in any circumstance of braid to braid, versus a splice, which seems to be very close to 100%. Plus, the splice goes through guides better on my rods.
Yes you can make a hollow core sleeve, a guy on SOS has had good success wih it
Quote from: RockyMtnKurt on October 21, 2013, 11:37:18 PM
I was just reading at Paulus Just Fishing, under the knots tested, Suffix Performance Braid mainline tested in an overhand knot, main line at 31.4lb, broke at 17.5lb in the knot and mainline. My personal experience with Suffix Performance braid indicates this level of performance, so maybe it is not the best line to reference for a knot test. I just find it harder to believe an overhand knot would be a 100% knot in any circumstance of braid to braid, versus a splice, which seems to be very close to 100%. Plus, the splice goes through guides better on my rods.
Yes the overhand is a 50% knot at best but since the solid is in the hollow braid, the hollow braid actually protect it and the knota is almost 100% at that point. I just tested by inserting some 80 lbs solid suffix into 200 lbs JB. Probably not the best combo but that was all I had lying around. Instead of tying a overhand knot I tied a surgeon's knot . On the solid tag end, I tied a uni around the hollow braid. The unit is really there to indicate i I had some slippage. I also spliced a loop into the hollow core and pulled on it as hard as possible. Nothing moved as far as i can tell. This is with a lock down drag at about 20+ lbs. I also thumbed the spool for extra pressure and the knot held fine. I did put a bit of glue on where the solid enter the tag end to clean it a up a bit..
One point. The glue doesn't really stick to Spectra unless you use a two part system like Jerry Brown and even then not very well. The glue is really for abrasion resistance on the serve. The serve is what holds it all together and is probably the most important part. As pointed out, an overhand knot on straight Spectra (hollow or solid) weakens the line tremendously. Sliding another piece of Dacron or Spectra over it protects it. It all has to do with the bending radius of the knot. small bending radii fractures the Spectra fibers. Lots of discussion on this on the Bluewater board on 2coolfishing.com. Splicing a piece of hollow to solid is done all the time and there are several ways to do it. I mostly use this method:
http://www.reel-time.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66600
I don't know that the serve "holds it all together", If you don't use a serve the "finger cuff" properties of the splice will still hold just fine. The serve whips the end of the hollow material and keeps it from unraveling, but if it is adding strength t the splice then something isn't right.
Ron
My friends and I have used the overhand knot for years with 0 failures. During that time we've seen many different types of connections fail. Like a lot of things in fishing, it depends on what you're comfortable with. We've landed many fish over 200 pounds with this connection method.
The connection I use: If the spectra on the reel is hollow I form a loose overhand knot in the spectra and slide it up the standing line about 20 inches. I then slip the mono into the hollow spectra about 15 inches. I then slide the formed overhand knot down to within 1" from the end of the spectra and tighten. This to me has proven to be a perfect connection.
If the line on the reel is solid, I form a loop in the end of the solid spectra using a spider hitch (I used to tie a Bimini but found that it wasn't necessary). I tie the smallest 4 turn spider hitch loop I can. After the loop is formed I cut off the tag end leaving about 1" and then melt that with a cigarette lighter down to a small nub I connect a 3 to 3 & 1/2 foot piece of 130 or 200 pound hollow spectra to the solid spectra using a loop to loop, with the loop in the hollow spectra formed with either a wire or splicing needle. I then join the two spectras with the loop to loop woven 3 times. When I'm finished, I pull the hollow spectra loop up until it's almost impossible to see. The total length of the connection between the spectras may be a small as 4" long.
To facilitate putting the mono into the hollow spectra, I use a small piece of stainless wire to open up the spectra weave, I cut the mono at about a 45 degree angle using a razor blade. The razor blade leaves no damaged end on the mono to inhibit its movement into the hollow spectra. Once the spectra weave is open and has a piece of mono in it, it doesn't need to be opened again as long as the opened weave is protected while changing a top shot.
Total time to change a 100 foot top shot, less than 10 minutes for the whole process, when removing the mono from a fresh spool of line. :)
check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8N_i-1UI6w&feature=player_embedded#t=0 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
haven't done it yet but when i do i'll just use 25% or < not 50%.
I use the Da Ho needle splicing kit and zap-a-gap as detailed in this video:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6WldfUfRlT0
i have been making these sleeves for my 80 and 65 lbs solid suffix. I tied a surgeon's knot and use a uni on the solid tag end. The loop is made using a 3 foot piece of copper bent in half. I have been pulling on it with as much as I can and the knot doesn't budge.
Quote from: noyb72 on October 22, 2013, 05:15:23 AM
I don't know that the serve "holds it all together", If you don't use a serve the "finger cuff" properties of the splice will still hold just fine. The serve whips the end of the hollow material and keeps it from unraveling, but if it is adding strength t the splice then something isn't right.
Ron
If you do some investigating, you'll find that the "finger cuff" properties won't hold fine at all, without a serve. The "finger cuff" depends on constant tension on the line at all times. As soon as the tension is removed, the finger cuff can slip. The serve is there to stop that. In fact, short insertion setups depend entirely on the serve. The serve isn't there to keep anything from unraveling, it is there to keep anything from slipping. It isn't adding strength, it is the strength. This has been extensively tested by multiple people.
it is interesting that a lot of people like using the serve or crimp method when most likely an overhand knot or a surgeon's or even a 3 turn uni will likely be stronger.
A 'properly' made served connection is capable on nearly 100% of the flouro or mono. If the insertion is long enough and the serve produced enough friction to tension the hollow core (finger cuff) the mono or flour will break before it slips out. The serve is susceptible to slipping if it is not tight enough, another line gets wrapped above the serve and pulls the serve down the mono, or the mono thins out from excessive line stretch. Basil addresses this by pre-tensioning the mono before serving (that's what they are doing in the video posted earlier). Keep in mind that the hollow will be weakened a little with a served connection so the spectra needs to be stronger than the mono if line strength matters. There has been a trend to the 'pressure' serve (PK) that produces 100% of the connection strength from the serve (not a bow wrapped serve) and does not suffer from long insertion or slipping out of the mono. Stream lined does this type of leader and the 'FG' or Sebiel knot is a PK type connection. The PK suffers from the spectra squeezing the mono and weakening it if not tied properly and is more suited to the harder Flouro leader materials in the 30# to 60# range. I use a PK type serve on all my leaders. It is difficult to tie and must be customized for each line type and size ans well as the type of spectra used if one want to achieve 95 to 100% leader absolute breaking strength. Needless to say we tie all our leaders at home to get them flawless and reliable. this means 150-200 leaders to properly support a 7 day trip for 2 anglers ( you never know what leader the fish will demand).
Jim N.
here's basil connections;
http://www.bhptackle.com/pages.php?pageid=6