Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Senator Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: BMITCH on November 15, 2013, 11:47:38 AM

Title: SCREWED
Post by: BMITCH on November 15, 2013, 11:47:38 AM
Ok, so back to the old question of SS screws. Seems to be difficult to find 8-40 flat head screws that I like. So my question is...if you run a 8-32 tap through say a Tib frame for the 114H( which is a 8-40 thread) do you risk screwing up the frame? Do you get a good fit? Aren't the screw dia. The same on an 8-40 and a 8-32.? Your just changing the pitch, right? Or do I need to tap to the next largest size?
Bob
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: Bunnlevel Sharker on November 15, 2013, 01:15:59 PM
I think as long as the walls arent to thin and the screw is lightly greased and fits well you will be fine
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: Irish Jigger on November 15, 2013, 01:39:00 PM

Be very careful.
First establish exactly what thread is in the Tib frame.
Are you sure it is not 8-36 UNF as 8-40 is a non standard size?





Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: LTM on November 15, 2013, 01:42:58 PM
Also, the diameter is the same HOWEVER your going from 32 tpi to 40tpi which is a FINER thread and your screw may very well not hold and skip a thread ore two. Wait till you get more POSITIVE feed back. Keta/Lee is one our resident machinist whom I consult with on details such as this.

Leo
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: Keta on November 15, 2013, 02:05:01 PM
It should be ok.

8-32 major diameter .1631"  minor diameter .1248"
8-36 major diameter .1632"  minor diameter .1291"

major .1632-.1631=.0001 loss
minor .1291-.1248=.0043 gain

8-32 thread contact  .0383"
8-36 thread contact  .0341"
The re-taped thread contact will be .0332"

http://www.engineersedge.com/screw_threads_chart.htm (http://www.engineersedge.com/screw_threads_chart.htm)


Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: LTM on November 15, 2013, 06:10:49 PM
SEE WHAT I MEAN? Thanx Lee for the link!!

Leo
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: BMITCH on November 15, 2013, 07:43:00 PM
So Lee & Leo, I should be alright if I tap out a existing 8-40 thread with a 8-32. The Penn 114H side plate screws are a 8-40 correct? If I tap them out to an 8-32 I believe there are many more options of SS screws that can be used?
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: Irish Jigger on November 16, 2013, 12:02:36 AM
Quote from: BMITCH on November 15, 2013, 07:43:00 PM
The Penn 114H side plate screws are a 8-40 correct?
Yes 8-40,which is a non standard size and hard to source other than from Penn.
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: BMITCH on November 16, 2013, 09:45:13 AM
Quote from: Irish Jigger on November 16, 2013, 12:02:36 AM
Quote from: BMITCH on November 15, 2013, 07:43:00 PM
The Penn 114H side plate screws are a 8-40 correct?
Yes 8-40,which is a non standard size and hard to source other than from Penn.

Tom, my point exactly! So if I tap out the 8-40 to 8-32 do you think there is enough "meat" to be able to bear down on the side plate screws??
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: BMITCH on November 16, 2013, 09:47:50 AM
Or maybe go up a size to a 10-32 and make the holes through the side plate and rings larger? I really don't like the penn screws. Not a cost issue more an aesthetics issue.
Bob
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: LTM on November 16, 2013, 10:11:29 AM
Bob Im not your guy for this question, just the referral to Keta/Lee

Leo
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: Irish Jigger on November 16, 2013, 12:03:22 PM
Bob,I would not cross thread the holes by tapping them 8-32 and would stick with the original 8-40 chromed brass screws.

You could try tapping a 114H post 8-32 and see how well the screw holds.






Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: Alto Mare on November 16, 2013, 12:31:06 PM
Quote from: Irish Jigger on November 16, 2013, 12:03:22 PM
Bob, I would stick with the original 8-40 chromed brass screws.
Same here.
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: Irish Jigger on November 16, 2013, 03:38:38 PM
Bob, run an 8-32 die/die nut down an 8-40 screw and see what the threads look like before contemplating tapping the Tib frame. ;)
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: Keta on November 16, 2013, 03:50:00 PM
Quote from: Irish Jigger on November 16, 2013, 03:38:38 PM
Bob, run an 8-32 die/die nut down an 8-40 screw and see what the threads look like before contemplating tapping the Tib frame. ;)

X2.  I've successfully ran a course tap in a fine thread hole in steel but they were much larger.
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: MFB on November 16, 2013, 08:32:14 PM
Just a thought

http://www.noblefix.com/PDF/Helicoil/HeliCoil-Professional-Kit.pdf

I have used helicoils on carbs, chainsaws & a few other things. Have never fitted ones this small before though. Hope you have good eyes. I wouldn't recommend running a coarse tap into a fine thread of the same diameter.

Rgds

Mark   
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: Ron Jones on November 16, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
Helicoils are fantastic, of course. But I wonder if there is a concern of galvanic action between the stainless and aluminum in salt water?

Ron
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: BMITCH on November 16, 2013, 09:45:55 PM
The helicoils I've done before( only 5mm) this is small. I wouldn't trust them over time as Ron said.
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: Cone on November 16, 2013, 09:52:40 PM
Bob, I did tap a frame out to 8-32. It holds fine. I would like to caution you the tap needs to be straight. Preferably you would use a taper then a plug and then a bottom tap. I would try it out on something like an old post to satisfy its to your liking. Send me your address and I'll send you a post already tapped out.
Bob
Title: Re: SCREWED
Post by: Ron Jones on November 16, 2013, 10:25:18 PM
Looking at a Heli-Coil flyer, they make phosphor bronze inserts for salt water applications. These and stainless screws would be the absolute correct answer.

Ron