I "inherited" these reels from my neighbor and just HAD to get them all back to working condition.
(http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u633/rudhawk/Fishing/Reels_zpsfb199ebb.jpg) (http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/rudhawk/media/Fishing/Reels_zpsfb199ebb.jpg.html)
I saved the 500 until last because it was still in a box with a new spare spool. I don't think it was ever used but it was spooled with old mono. So I decided to do a complete teardown, clean out the old grease (it was clean and looked like it was from the factory/a light brown color and not dried up) and re-lube everything (Alan's method) and add carbontex drag washer set with Cal's grease.
Here's the problem – there is about 1/16th inch sideplay to the spool. If I tighten the bushing 40-60, the right lip of the spool rubs/binds against the right side ring along the bottom near the stand. And the bushing is backed out what appears to be too far.
(http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u633/rudhawk/Fishing/IMG_2289_zpsbc85e723.jpg) (http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/rudhawk/media/Fishing/IMG_2289_zpsbc85e723.jpg.html)
If I slide the spool all the way left – I get the best free spool spin but this leaves a gap between the right spool lip and sideplate (enough that I can slide paper in).
(http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u633/rudhawk/Fishing/IMG_2293_zps4bb6125b.jpg) (http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/rudhawk/media/Fishing/IMG_2293_zps4bb6125b.jpg.html)
Also, if the spool slides any toward the right, it rubs & hangs up against the sideplate. The pinion engages & disengages just fine and the right side bushing is tight.
I believe the problem may have arisen because I removed ALL the spacer bars and stand during teardown (instead of removing the screws one at a time to apply lube). (I didn't check sideplay or spool rubbing prior to teardown). Maybe I'm torqueing the frame slightly during assembly?
I tried loosening all the stand & spacer screws and slowly tightening first the spacer screws then the stand screws and vice versa – no luck. I also backed out the bridge screws and alternately tightening them in small increments – no luck.
Is there a specific tightening sequence to the stand and spacer screws which keeps the spool/reel aligned?
I'm open to suggestions/education.
let me say, that's some inheritance, wow. before you go crazy , try a different spool, maybe one from another reel that works fine, see what happens.
Ok - so I started swapping parts as suggested.
Swapped spools with another Jigmaster - both workabout the same.
1. Put in another spool from "old Jigmaster" into "new Jigmaster"- maybe just a little less side to side play but it binds also when moved slightly right
2. Mounted the "new Jigmaster" right side (handle) onto "old left side Jigmaster and spool" - a little better but still binding when the spool is pushed toward "new" handle side.
3. Combined "new left side/clicker" with "old spool and right side" - slightly better than the complete "new Jigmaster".
4. Combined "new left side/clicker and new spool" with "old right side/handle" - this is about the same as the complete "new Jigmaster" setup.
Then I reassembled the old Jigmaster and noticed about the same condition as the new one. There is the same play and I can get a slip of paper between the spool and right side. And if the spool shifts to the right it will bind up.
I should have looked at the old one before all this. Thanks for bringing me back to reality.
Next question - assuming this is normal for these reels - how does a person prevent the spool from shifting to the right?
hello Rud, try new or different left and right side bushings....Welcome by the way.
Sal
Hi, Sal (read a lot of your posts on here) thanks for responding.
That's got it, Sal (at least for the "old" Jiggy - I put the "new" left side bearing into the old Jigmaster and was able to tighten it down to practically no side play and plenty of free spool spin with no binding on the right sideplate.
Now back to work on the "new Jigmaster". Will probably need to order new left and right side bushings and swapping things around.
thanks for the help & insight guys.
Next question - assuming this is normal for these reels - how does a person prevent the spool from shifting to the right?
Drop a No 6 or 7 lead shot (0."11/0."10 dia) into the right side plate bearing to reduce spool right side slip.Surprising how long they last in there ;)
Hey Tom, loved your work on the double dog 500 by the way. Lead shot - I've added that to my arsenal along with brass wood screws, stainless welding rod, thread to handle wayward springs, etc. Those compliment the other home remedies I've picked up elsewhere:
THE best rust remover: - pure oxalic acid bath - won't harm paint or plastic
Best penetrating fluid - 50% Acetone, 40% Antifreeze, 10% Power steering fluid (old mechanics recipe).
Hey Rud.
From the looks of that spool, I say you need a replacement for that as well. It looks broken in the middle.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on November 19, 2013, 05:29:53 PM
Hey Rud.
From the looks of that spool, I say you need a replacement for that as well. It looks broken in the middle.
Huh, the picture does make it look that way but it's really fine. It's old but it's never been used, in fact, it was wrapped in Penn wrapping paper and in a green spool box packaged with the reel in this box.
(http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u633/rudhawk/Fishing/Jigmasterbox_zpsd1f436fd.jpg) (http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/rudhawk/media/Fishing/Jigmasterbox_zpsd1f436fd.jpg.html)
Well, I've made some progress - it turns out the spool is NOT binding on the 2-250 R side inner ring after all. I initially thought that to be the case because I saw some red dust particles there and figured it came from the spool rubbing against it. To determine just where it was rubbing, I pushed the spool to the right side and then went around the spool and inserted a small piece of paper between the spool lip and the inner ring. NO binding there.
As it turns out I think it's the shaft of the spool rubbing on the inside of the pinion gear? I thought maybe, in free spool, the pinion was getting cocked and binding on the spool shaft.
So I disassembled the old and new reels and swapped the pinion, yoke and eccentric jack. Alas, it didn't help. Even tried the old spool, but I've got some binding either way. More investigation needed.
The thing that bugs me - When in gear, it's great. When in free spool, it's great as long as the reel is turned slightly left. As soon as the reel is level or slightly to the right, the spool moves just enough to the right and stops because of the binding.
I should just stop right now and use Irish' lead shot in the bushing solution - but this "simple" problem has grabbed me by the egg sinkers and won't let go.
Hi Rud,thank's for your kind words. This is a great Forum for sharing ideas and helping each other and I guess that's what we all like about it. Back to your problem with the 500. I think Sal's suggestion that you try a new Right Side Bearing is a good one as the spool spindle end or the Bearing may be slightly worn allowing the spool to rub against the Bridge.
Yes, the new R side bearing is on order (I may get it tomorrow from a local source). Plus, I need a break so it's golfing in the morning. Then back into the "addiction". I keep you updated.
I got back into this today and wanted to show you what the reels are doing. I added a new right side bearing (but it didn't seem to make a difference - but at least I have a new bearing in the old Jigmaster. Since I'm not the most illustrative with words, I will include a video.
Old which works fine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyIFGop1_4g
New which binds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Dr9f3Eq1k
Next I'm going to start swapping parts to see if I can't isolate this problem. I'll keep you posted.
Well I had to set this reel aside – only made a little progress. Here's what I tried:
Took out the bridge, pinion, yoke and eccentric jack from both the old and new reels (to better isolate the binding problem).
New reel - spool still binds when slanted right from center.
It feels like the shaft is chaffing on the inside of the bushing if fully seated – incorrect alignment.
Swapped bearings from new and old reels. No change.
Put new spool in old reel – spool binds in old reel. This tells me the new spool is bad.
Put new R. side plate on old reel:
Old spool. OK - no binding. New R. side is good.
New spool – no good/binds.
Put old spool in new reel. No good – binding when tilted right. This tells me the new L. side plate is out of alignment.
Loosened all screws in L. side plate then tightened just the front spacer bars. This seemed to make binding less. I tried alternative tightening and loosening sequence with the spacer bars and stand screws but never got any closer.
It appears the spool and the reel are rejects (maybe that's why my neighbor only paid $13.97 25-30 years ago?) At this point it's not worth any more of my time – I'll move on; it's time to fish.
I'll NEVER go back to this reel; it's a waste of time.
In the meantime, as Irish Jigger suggested – the reel could be made very useable with a lead BB shot in the R. side bearing to keep the spool from moving to the right.
(Hmmm, I wonder if swapping out the spacer bars might have some effect?) ???
shim both spools to the left a little, either with a new right side bearing (they call it a bearing but it's actually a bushing) or by shoving a small piece of a soda can inside the original bushing to act as a shim. both spools are banging against the bridge plate. that happens when the hard stainless steel spool shaft eats into the soft brass bushing.
Hi, Alan - I like the idea of the aluminum can (in fact I went ahead and did this to a squidder after reading your post) - but I need more thickness than that. (by the way, I did install a new right side bushing.)
The thickness I need is 0.050 inches (1.25 mm - about the thickness of a dime). This was determined by:
1. With the left side bearing (bushing) adjusted inward to the point the spool would spin without binding - mark the spool at the edge of the right side ring (Point A).
2. manually moving the spool to the right to bottom out in the bushing. Mark the spool at the edge of the right side ring (Point B).
The distance between A & B is 0.050 inches. The shaft starts contacting the inner side of the brass bushing prior to bottoming out. That's why I think it's an reel alignment and/or spool alignment problem.
I had a similar issue with a jigmaster and it turned out it had been dropped and ever so slightly the frame was out of alignment.
yeah - I think something like that happened to mine. But I've almost got it solved. Check out the video - I decided to tune the reel alignment with the old spool (since the new one just isn't right). I barely loosened all the screws in the R. side ring put the assembly together. Then I adjusted the left side bushing so there was very little side to side play on the spool. Then I slowly started a tightening process on the left side screws. By trial and error I was able to get the working.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRkVeViWclA
The only thing I have to figure out is the clicking I get when the spool is level (you can hear it in the video on the third and final spin). It's not bad but since I'm almost there - may as well get it right.
Thanks everyone - I'll mark this on "solved".
if you have a metal spool or can get hold of one that might also solve your problem as the plastic spools are very thick on the ends where they go into the chrome rings, iv'e had it where certain spools work better in some reels than others. harryk
Glad you finally got it Rud! ;) I'm with Harry on the metal spool. I don't have a jigmaster, but I'm sure somebody here has a spool.
Hello Rud. Thanks for starting this thread. I had the same problem with my Jigmaster and got advice exactly the same as the solution you are pursuing. I was told to make sure the reel was squared up. I took the advice to heart and used all my skills to make sure the two end plates were parallel. This included a vice, level, t-square, order of tightening all the screws, etc. After several tries, it became apparent the problem was elsewhere. Think of it this way; if you can slip a piece of paper between the edge of the spool and the chrome ring all the way around, how can it be a problem with alignment? I was sure I needed a new bushing, but then read your comment here that you installed a new bushing with no improvement. So that seemed to be a waste of time and money.
I read the advice of Alan and Irish Jigger last night about inserting a shim or a piece of lead shot inside the bushing as well as your observations about the thickness of the material needed to distance the spool from the inside of the drag side plate and gave it all some thought. This morning I wandered around in my basement until I found an old carburetor gasket. I removed the drag side bushing from the Jigmaster and pressed the open end of the bushing against the gasket material. it made a nice circular impression. With a pair of scissors I cut out the small circle by first cutting out a square piece with the circle just inside and then nipping away at the corners until I had a circle that just fit inside the opening of the bushing. I used a toothpick to tamp my little circle into the bushing and added a drop of oil. I then screwed it back into the endplate and voila! The Jigmaster spins smooth at any angle.
I guess what I don't know is this: what is worn that requires this addition? I really thought it was the bushing, but you installed a new one with no improvement. Still a bit of a mystery.
Bushings are priced very reasonable, I still say new bushings is the way to go, the tip and the inside do wear. I've been there many times before, back off the left side bushing and make sure the right side bushing is nice and tight, that should remove the clicking, well most of the times it does.
My used 114h would bind when tilted to the right towards the handle. Turns out the bearing cap or frame had become worn allowing the spool to move an extra 2 mils to the right. I used a short piece of mono between the frame and cap to move the cap and bearing to the left. Works fine now.
Yes, you could do all of the above and it should do just fine, personally, I like to replace the bushings.
I've mentioned to make sure the right side bushing is tight, because all it takes is a hair more of the tightening to make it work.
Quote from: Alto Mare on November 29, 2013, 05:13:25 PM
Yes, you could do all of the above and it should do just fine, personally, I like to replace the bushings.
I've mentioned to make sure the right side bushing is tight, because all it takes is a hair more of the tightening to make it work.
It makes the most sense to start with a new bushing (and make sure it's tight) since they are cheap - at least that potential problem is eliminated.
Legal Bill - glad to see the gasket spacer worked.
I guess what I don't know is this: what is worn that requires this addition?.
The way I look at it is this (and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I will correct me if I'm wrong):
The spool shaft is steel - the bushing is brass (softer metal). The end of the shaft will wear into the brass over time. Plus, any microscopic burr on the end of the shaft will catch/dig in to the brass bushing slowing rotation. So, for longevity of the shim fix, you should theoretically use a shim made from metal but softer than the shaft (so the shaft end doesn't wear). I believe that's the reason Alan suggested aluminum can. I do like the idea of using a piece of mono; very quick and easy and should not create much resistance to the shaft end.
One thing I did was polish the end of the shaft with some 2000 grit and then 4000 grit sand paper to ensure there were no burrs.
The biggest improvement came with the addition of a metal spool as others (Harry) suggested. Here's a clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ousGVL_KF4
Smooth as Butta!!! ;)
Thanks for the comments, guys. I will order up a new bushing and see it solves my problem. I recognize the bit of gasket material will not be a long term solution.
Rud, you got some nice spin going on there. I counted almost 10 seconds of spin time. My gasket spacer is only good for six or seven.
Bill, remove the spool and chuck it up on a dremel, use some 2000 grid sandpaper and let the spool shaft spin on the sandpaper, being careful not to apply too much pressure. You will actually see it work, it will get shiny. Finish with some fine stainless steel wool and do the same to the other side.
Install the spool and watch that baby spin. Irish Jigger's suggestion makes sense, but most times knocks the spool off center. A piece of aluminum is also a good option, but, if not cut perfect it will create friction by moving around. The gasket would also create friction.
On some of my spools I like to round off the tip of the shaft a little more on both sides.
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/007_zps90dba5f3.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/007_zps90dba5f3.jpg.html)
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/008_zpseca4a456.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/008_zpseca4a456.jpg.html)
The spool on the left is new out of the box from Penn, the right is the one I've rounded the tip.
You will definitely gain more spinning, but not a lot more, these will only give you so much.
Sorry, I need to resize the pictures.
Update. Installed the new bushing and that solved the problem. I am amazed how long the spool spins now. Thanks guys.