I tripped over a 16S at a post-Christmas clearance today, and at $300 couldn't say no. The Mrs. isn't beating me too badly over the head, so I should live. Now, what to do with it?
I do my tuna fishing September-November on partyboats out of Montauk, New York. Local boats don't make bait, have baitwells, etc. They troll on the way out, stop and jig a bit if something happens on the troll, and catch most of their fish at anchor, while chumming with cut bait, at night. The bait for the hook is whatever you bring or the boat provides, typically butterfish, though prudence dictates that everyone have squid jigs at hand.
I'll send this reel to Cal Sheets, but I'm not quite sure of the line for which I should ask him to refit the reel. His site says the 16S can be made to fish line up to 80 lb., but I have a 900H for 80, as well as a 30SW if the mates look the other way when the braid appears. (East Coast boats generally bar braid; mono only.) The 16S looks, to my unpracticed eye, like a reel that wants to be blueprinted for 60 lb. line. I don't want to push this or any reel to a mechanical extreme, blueprinted or otherwise. Is that reasonable? Blueprint for 60 lb. and Cal can figure out how much braid should go on to leave space for one of BHP's wind-on fluorocarbon leaders; the 25 yard variety should be enough to make sure that no skeptical tuna gets to see the braid lurking in the background. (If the mate is unhappy, then I'll break out the 113HW with the mono.)
I don't know if the bearings are worthwhile if I'm not going to cast live bait. Neither do I know if the "Blueprint Plus" feature is available for this reel. Beyond a very careful truing of the drag plate, I'm not sure what blueprinting a reel of this vintage will entail. Everyone loves Tiburon handles, but on a reel of this size it may not be warranted.
Comments are solicited. I've been lurking here for awhile, this is a fun place.
And while I'm talking to myself, does Cal grease the drag washers in the course of blueprinting the reel? I follow this debate with a decided lack of hands-on experience, but plenty of curiousity.
I would suggest calling Cal at (626) 357-4441 and talking to him about what you want to do with the reel. He will tell you the options you have with the 16. Cal is a great guy and does not try to up sell you on anything you don't want or need.
I'm just wondering how a 25 yard windon leader will keep others from seeing the braid underneath? I don't fish in that area but I'd think a topper at only 25 yards long the braid would be seen almost all the time when fishing, well maybe not when the rod is in the rack.
The 25 yards of fluorocarbon would only suffice to deceive the fish, not my neighbors at the rail or any mates. With that in mind, I'll ask Cal what he'd suggest underneath one of Basil's 200-yard wind on leaders. Is there enough line capacity for 200 yards of, say, up to 60 lb? Since this is to be a bright-day, skittish-fish setup, what about 200 yards of 50? How much braid of 60 lb will go underneath?
In any case, I will certainly talk to him before ordering anything. What fun.
When I was saying to talk to Cal I was referring to if you want to go with the "blue print" or the "blue print plus" upgrade. I'm sure he would have a better idea of the braid capacity versus the mono topshot than most but Basil would know the braid plus mono topper just as well if not better. It boils down to which braid or its diameter and the diameter of the mono topshot. I'm sure they will tell to go at least one braid's test higher than the mono/fluoro topshot. Thats because if your line does break it most likely will break in the mono and not in the more costly braid. So if it is a 60lb topshot I'd go at least with 80lb braid and hollow braid not solid. Hollow braid allows more connection options than soild if you wish to go that route but is more costly. Hollow ties just as good as solid if you want to keep things a bit more simple to start but if you want to get into other connections solid braid can only be tied. Sure you can splice in some hollow on top of the solid but you might as well start out with the hollow. The hollow makes awesome knotless loops to go with Basil's windons, or your own if you choose to make them.
Good thinking. 60 lb hollow braid, then, over 40 or 50 topshot, of whatever mono seems least conspicuous in North Atlantic water. The late Capt. Greg Beacher, a tuna celebrity of local note, swore by the now-discontinued grey mono made (I think) for a time by either Hi-Seas or Ande, but I don't believe either firm makes mono in grey anymore.
I could have saved myself money and time by simply buying a Torque LD 40 or 50, but ..... an impulse buy. And of no use to me, for partyboating, in it's current stock configuration. The Christmas and New Year season is doubtless as disorganizing in Cal's business as anywhere else; I'll try and get him on the phone today.
The 16S is not one of the reels for which his site lists a "drag plus" configuration as available, but that may merely reflect a lack of market demand. I'll ask.
Off the top of your head, if you know, did the 16S use the same size drag washer as the 12S, or is the 16 bigger?
100 pound spectra and a short 60, 80 or 100 pound topshot. excellent reel!
Brian,
If your looking for a smoke/gray colored line check out Izorine XXX. I use their clear XXX line and it is limp but strong.
I had that chat with The Man Himself, and he was totally amicable, friendly, and advised me what I didn't need to have done. Mr. Sheets likes the 16S better as a 60 lb reel than as an 80, if I understood him correctly. The reel will be reworked for 16-18 lb. drag at strike. No bearing job, since I don't have occasion to liveline bait, I don't need it. No suggestion of a new handle, though I did forget to ask. His choice of hollow braid. Assuming a 100 yard top shot (it'll be one of Basil's) of 50 lb mono, there's room underneath for 400 yards of hollow braid. Max drag will be 25 lb.-ish.
A hundred yards of mono should mask the braid from quick observation by sharp-eyed mates. If I am told to crank it in, so be it, and the 113HLW with straight 60 mono comes into play. I remarked that I probably would have been better off with a Torque LD; he likes the 50 a lot, but notes that this choice will give me more line capacity. That's fine ....
Next I need to learn how to make my own topshots. It would probably be prudent to have 80-100 yard topshots of different lines to match water color/conditions. I've like Quattro Pro in the past, the main problem being my own difficulty seeing it in the water. On to YouTube! On to CharkBait! And whatever else seems usefully instructive.
Do we have any other Long Island / NY / Northeast anglers here with experience of the bright, clean water of September, and of the locally finicky fish
A note of thanks to all in this thread. The reel came back from Cal Sheets blueprinted, new Penn drag washers, no bearing job and an astonishing 500 yards of 60 lb. hollow JB braid. The braid is white and I'm guessing Line One; I told him to install the best braid, whatever it was, in his estimation.
I am astonished that it took so much 60 lb hollow braid. If I'd known it would be that much, I might've asked for a heavier test braid. Does anyone know what the real breaking strain of 60 lb. JB hollow might be?
(I'm wondering whether a 60 lb topshot is plausible, in a shorter length than the hundred yards' worth of space that's still available on top.)
Anyway, it's a nice piece of work. Now all I need is a tuna or two. NOAA is currently calling for 4"-7" snow from Sunday night through Monday night. This makes unlikely any tuna for a week or two - the local boats can barely get clear of their slips for cod, this year, before some gale blows them ashore again. I have caught fish in the surf when there was snow on the ground, but not tuna. Does anyone have a tuna small enough to swim in a bathtub so I can practice a little? ;D
Hey Brian, the jb will prove its worth in the long run, Ive tested on a crank/scale both the 60 and 80lb tests and they break above the rated test everytime,,,,,,,,,most lines dont. jb is good. gstours. my 2cents worth.
Quote from: gstours on March 04, 2014, 07:26:26 AM
Hey Brian, the jb will prove its worth in the long run, Ive tested on a crank/scale both the 60 and 80lb tests and they break above the rated test everytime,,,,,,,,,most lines dont. jb is good. gstours. my 2cents worth.
JB hollow overtests by quite a lot. If you read about the line testing on this link, www.paulusjustfishing.com you can get an idea of the average breaking strength of many brands of braided (Spectra/ Dyneema) lines. The JB 60 hollow will be fine to use with 60 or even 80 lb. test topshots.
I thought it might be, but I'll err on the side of caution. I don't want to go above 60 lb. on the topshot - or a 25 yard length of 60 lb. fluorocarbon; I believe that Basil sells that sort of thing too. Much better to break a topshot, then the line behind it, or overstress the loop at the bitter end of the braid. I'll check out the data at the paulus link too.
This is the first time I've had a reel spooled with hollow Spectra of any kind. It's a staggering expansion of line capacity, it really is.
Again, thanks to all who commented. The surfcasting I do involves very little risk of overstressed tackle. The major hazard is closing the damn car door. ;D
Yikes. Wonderful. There are several JB white 60 lb braids on the linked site, and they're all waaaay over test - 90 lbs., more or less.
Fine by me, that's a nice margin of error.
I know this reel is a tank but looks líke The recommended líne is 60lb
Whats The big advantage of this $500 reel over a penn 9/0 or 40ld Torque
The 16S has very interesting gearing (to me) which makes it a very suitable little reel. In an age of Super High Speed 2 speed reels with really low low gears this one has a respectable 4.5:1 high with a 2:1 low.
I asked cuz I have a guy offering me on in good shape, not too cheap but at a good price considering the original price tag.
but I dont see many situations where I would want to use the penn 16s over a Baja or fathom 40ld2
grouper fishing came to mind for the tank build but also read bigger than 60#-80# leader in not recommended :-\
local gruper fishing line used is 100-130# braid and 200# mono leader for abrasion purposes and for the Tug war
You could note that the reels in your comparison are sort of 'from a different age' - 16S is a +/-15 lb drag reel, where as the Baja/113N can do 20lb + all day with a little room to spare and the Torque goes above and beyond that. But there are 20+ years of design changes/updates between these reels.
I was going through a similar dilemma Alex, I wanted a second tilefish reel for those bruisers down deep. I needed 700 yds of 50 lb braid. My 113N has the upgrades and about 550 yds of 65 lb JB. With the trips being 24, 36, 48 hours I wanted a back up just in case. The 16S was in my top 3 because of the 4.5:1 high gear, but the price was still very steep for drag numbers not that much higher than a worked Jigmaster. I ended up getting a 40NLD single speed with the 4.8:1 (and 40 in per crank) brand new for $187 shipped. I'm testing it in 3 weeks so I'll let you know. Not looking forward to the cost of all that brand this Sunday am though, haha!
Edit: After I posted this I forgot to add one of my biggest deciding factors...reel weight. The 40NLD was only 25 oz or so...where was the 16s was just under 50 oz... :o
Quote from: coastal_dan on June 22, 2017, 07:26:52 PM
Ybut the price was still very steep for drag numbers not that much higher than a worked Jigmaster.
my point exactly.
seems like I will pass on this 16s international, which is beautiful and feels like a brick (in strength and weight haha).
I was really hoping that the new 12VSX would have a bit lower high gears...like 4.5:1 High and a 2.3:1 Low. That would be a fantastic gear train in a little reel. But alas, I'll stick with what I've got and I'm darn happy the US Senator and 40NLD have sub 5.0:1 gears. ;D
Quote from: coastal_dan on June 23, 2017, 02:29:41 PM
.........d I'm darn happy the US Senator and 40NLD have sub 5.0:1 gears. ;D
same here Dan
Baja Special and Ft 40NLD2 will handle everything that swims locally... except if a Golliat grouper want to play, those things are massive, but not really want to kill anyone of those giants so, my guns are perfect as is.
Quote from: steelfish on June 22, 2017, 11:37:36 PM
Quote from: coastal_dan on June 22, 2017, 07:26:52 PM
Ybut the price was still very steep for drag numbers not that much higher than a worked Jigmaster.
my point exactly.
seems like I will pass on this 16s international, which is beautiful and feels like a brick (in strength and weight haha).
well, at the end I couldnt pass on a new offer for that reel :-\ ::)
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=22537.0