Quick question folks. Does anyone know the retrieval rate of a full 113h and a full 114h in inches per revolution!
Thanks
Bob
Depends on the gear ratio and I don't know without just measuring the line take up.
Gear ratios are both BP SS gears.
Measure the diameter of your spool, lets use 100mm as an example x Pi x rpm. This will give you your retrieve rate. eg 0.1m x 3.146 x 30rpm = 9.43m/min. 9.43 x 3.28 = 30.93 feet per minute divide by 12 to get inches per minute (2.57). This is just an example you need to know your spool diameter & rpm to get the right answer.
Rgds
Mark
According to Penn's website and using the new Chinese reels as a guideline, the Special Senators have the following inches per crank retrieval:
113H 3.3:1 RATIO= 26" PER TURN
114H 2.9:1 RATIO=28" PER TURN
using a simple ratio formula I came up with this:
113H 4.0:1 RATIO=32"(31.5) PER TURN
114H 3.25:1 RATIO= 31" PER TURN
Note that these are approximate and assuming the Chinese Senators are similar in size to the originals.
Hope that helps.
Black Pearl's gears:
114h gear ratio 3.25:1 = 33 1/8" per crank at full spool
113H gear ratio 4:1 = 34.5" per crank
Penn gears:
114H gear ratio 2.8:1 = 28.5" per crank
113H gear ratio 3.25:1 =29" per crank
Similar to Mark, I measure the diameter of the spool and multiply it to the gear ratio, the total gets multiplied again with 3.14. This will give you the amount of line per crank.
This is only a formula to give us an idea and to let manufacturers sell their reels.
If you get technical about it, this formula is worthless on fishing reels, the line never stays at full spool when fishing, but it does give us a rough idea when comparing reels.
We were typing at the same time conchydong ;D
Bob, keep in mind my numbers are at full spool, line should be 1/4" down from the spool edge. Removing 1/4" from the calculations you will loose approximately 2" of line per crank.
Thanks guys. Going over the numbers trying to decide on a 114hn or not. Hmmmmmm maybe. Always room for one more ;) ;D
So the fact is that the 114hn has more drag/stopping power over the 113hn with the BP gears. I think that additional weight of the 6/0 is negligible, right?
That's interesting that the 113h has a greater retrieval rate then the 114h, though not by much, despite the smaller spool diameter. I guess gear ratio plays a relatively larger role then spool diameters? I always thought a greater spool diameter would allow for marketly greater retrieval rates at lower relative gear ratios. Maybe that's still the case here. Any idea why it was decided to produce the 114h Black Pearl Gear set at the relatively low 3.25:1...to maintain strength under high torque/load I assume?
John
Everything needs a balance, for big game you want low ratio and large spool, in my opinion.
One of my observations of the Senator series is that most reels retrieve the same amount of line per one full revolution of the handle. I believe they knew what they were doing those days.
You might not be able to turn the handle if you increase the ratio considerably more than the 3.25 to 1 on a 114h, unless you use a longer handle, but even then, it would need to be tested. It would be like starting to accelerate a manual-transmission car while in 4th or 5th gear.
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 04, 2014, 01:40:57 AM
Everything needs a balance, for big game you want low ratio and large spool, in my opinion.
One of my observations of the Senator series is that most reels retrieve the same amount of line per one full revolution of the handle. I believe they knew what they were doing those days.
You might not be able to turn the handle if you increase the ratio considerably more than the 3.25 to 1 on a 114h, unless you use a longer handle, but even then, it would need to be tested. It would be like starting to accelerate a manual-transmission car while in 4th or 5th gear.
Sal, you are exactly right. Several times I hooked into a Marlin with my Penn International 50VXW when the reel was in high gear. I could hardly turn the handle in high gear. I had to shift to low gear until the fish tires. Then it is into high gear and pumping to gain as much line as possible on the down stroke of the rod. Dominick
A lot of guys here like the heavy duty old Triton series of reels with their large spool capacity, large drag surface area, and very low (like 1:1) gear ratios. They are often used for fishing heavy 250lb+line, heavy drag, and still able to winch em in with the rod remaining in the rod holder throughout the 'fight'. Many of the smaller reels (some of the Avets come to mind), have smaller spool diameters and much higher gear ratios (even low gear ratios) are typically greater than in most reels with larger spool diameters. Makes me wonder about 'effective' or 'productive' achievable torque differences. I mean smaller reels w/high effective drags, and higher gear ratios, loaded with appropriate spectra, might be comfortable, and fun, to fish with...but The effective torque one can apply (even with a longer handle arm) must be somewhat limited (comparably speaking off course. Guess it'd be better to make direct comparisons between specific models rather then generalize in this case.
Basically I agree that larger reels w/greater line capacity, greater spool diameters, larger drag surface area, and relatively lower gear ratios (while still maintaining acceptable retrieval rates) are best for truly large game. Kinda depends on how you fight the fish too I guess.
Keep in mind, that the more line you get back on the reel (regardless of ratio) is going to increase your retrieval rate as the spool diameter increases. Rpm is constant but the surface speed is not due to increasing diameter of line. So having a bigger diameter spool to begin with can help your chance of landing a fish faster than a reel with a smaller diameter spool providing they are similar ratio's. The flip side is the smaller diameter reel will give better mechanical advantage (or torque). If I had to choose between the two I would go for the reel with the bigger spool myself.
Rgds
Mark
Quote from: BMITCH on January 04, 2014, 12:38:20 AM
So the fact is that the 114hn has more drag/stopping power over the 113hn with the BP gears. I think that additional weight of the 6/0 is negligible, right?
The weight of the 9/0 with Black pearl ss Hex Gears, double ss dogs with ss springs, stainless sleeve and Handle with Aluminum frame and a lot more spool capacity is more than negligible for me Bob! ;)
This is exactly WHY I asked this question. The 9/0 as daron suggested is IMO to heavy to stand at the rail all night chunking( which is what I will be using this for). The smaller reels are very nice....but they are just that, smaller. If I'm lucky enough to hook into something with some shoulders I would feel under gunned with say a smaller Avet. My usual go to reel has been in the past the Tiagra 30WLRS. I like this reel but was looking for the best I could build in the senator series. Something about besting a good fish on something you built ;D
I hear you Bob! ;D For my kind of fishing. I just have to take it out of the rod holder and sit the Gimbal in my fighting belt and strap the reel to my harness. Then its game on.
Pound for pound, I think the most powerful reel in the smallest size I have right now is the 114HLW full frame with the Hex Drags. Next to the WEX, I think this is going to be a powerful setup with the line capacity to boot! ;)
You got that right Daron. I'm currently working on the same reel. I recently picked up the full frame 114HLW frame only on eBay. Now I'm just waiting for a few modification parts. I'll tap out this frame to the 10-32 thread size like I did the standard full frame 114H I posted in the photo forum. Im waiting on lee to get me a couple more of his Kranks. And also waiting on delivery of some screws for McMaster. I should be posting some finished reels in the not to distant future.
Bob