Encouragement from my friends Dominick and Daron they kinda planted the bug. WHY NOT?? This ill work on this week. Any input and or comments( just as long as they are positive ::)) are welcome. This is doable!!
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y502/MITSERVCS/null_zps0121b9c8.jpg)
Bob
Way to go Bob. You are getting close to losing the water resistance integrity of the reel. You might want to take down the back edge and use a different spring type. Dominick
Dominick, I hear ya. I already thought about that. The dog you see there was only for dry testing. The final dog I'm sure won't even look somewhat like that.
Wow. That is awesome.
Dominick, that is called a drainage gap. :)
Good Idea Bob !
you instantly led me to ponder & question
how about an elongated & fattened two "pronged" radius dog that could grab 2 teeth instead of just one..
then we could Quad Dog !
somebody wake up Lee.... get him to the BatCave ;D ;D
Interesting. I need to think about that. For 4/0, 6/0, 9/0,...
I'm kinda relating this in my mind to my mtb bike components, because I think it was Chris King or White Industries whose
rear hub design incorporated multi toothed pawls .. way before shimano ever thought of it.
King hubs are bulletproof & worth the extra dough, if not just for the sound they make!
Good one Erik! I am keeping Lee busy in that Batcave! :D
More like James Bond's secret weapons! ;D
Erik, great idea.we always borrow from other industries. Really there is very few new ideas. Mostly there is new applications for old ideas. Im O.K. With following. Right now indeed to getacouple of side plates to work with off to eBay I go. Hopefully I'll get something up here soon. I think this can be done. Lee raised one good point.. Spool clearance. I could really use knowledge and a cad system.
I really need a 3D laser imaging table too. Makes life easier...oh and a 3D printer too to print my prototypes. :)
Quote from: erikpowell on January 12, 2014, 05:28:49 AM
Good Idea Bob !
you instantly led me to ponder & question
how about an elongated & fattened two "pronged" radius dog that could grab 2 teeth instead of just one..
then we could Quad Dog !
somebody wake up Lee.... get him to the BatCave ;D ;D
You were reading my mind!
Mike.
Quote from: BMITCH on January 11, 2014, 09:21:03 PM
Encouragement from my friends Dominick and Daron they kinda planted the bug. WHY NOT?? This ill work on this week. Any input and or comments( just as long as they are positive ::)) are welcome. This is doable!!
Bob
I've been quiet, due to my favorite color above ;) ;D
Whatta say Sal?? Think this will fly?
No, I think you're off your rocker ;D.
Go for it buddy, it's always nice to explore ;), we'll back you up, good or bad.
I already picked up another side plate off eBay and I hope I'll get it the first time....but. Let the grinding begin :o
Lee brought up a possible fly in the ointment. The spool. I think a thicker dog with an area out of the center to accommodate the spool might work. I'll see!
I've been thinking about this for quite some time, mine is more to gain space.
I believe Erik mentioned something similar, but not sure.
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/002_zps9a64fbda.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/002_zps9a64fbda.jpg.html)
You could get 4 to 6 teeth with this one.
Just a thought..... carry on with your project and we'll push this one aside for now ;D.
Now, my only question to you is, do we need a third dog and what will it help with, considering we have 2 stainless steel dogs already, that could be set to engage at the same time or intermittent.
Again, mine above would be so we could gain more room so we could have stainless steel partson all of our older Penns, especially the larger ones.
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 12, 2014, 03:19:46 PM
I've been thinking about this for quite some time, mine is more to gain space.
I believe Erik mentioned something similar, but not sure.
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/002_zps9a64fbda.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/002_zps9a64fbda.jpg.html)
You could get 4 to 6 teeth with this one.
Just a thought..... carry on with your project and we'll push this one aside for now ;D.
Now, my only question to you is, do we need a third dog and what will it help with, considering we have 2 stainless steel dogs already, that could be set to engage at the same time or intermittent.
Again, mine above would be so we could gain more room so we could have stainless steel partson all of our older Penns, especially the larger ones.
looks Awesome..... Lee!
Quote from: BMITCH on January 12, 2014, 03:01:35 PM
I think a thicker dog with an area out of the center to accommodate the spool might work. I'll see!
Get me a rough sketch and I will have one cut.
Quote from: broschro on January 12, 2014, 03:23:37 PM
looks Awesome..... Lee!
I've been promising to get back to the Penn SS ratchets and dogs but I can look into it after they are done.
Thanks lee. What I think will work would be a dog the same dimensions as the original 113h dog only twice as thick. I'm going to fabricate one out of some brass I have here so that I'm able to cut and shape easily. I also have a used side plate on its way to me so I can start with a clean slate. This may take me a little while. I also need to work and currently I'm fortunate to be really busy.
Sal, I too have been mulling this idea over in my head. Not until I got that side plate back did it occure to me that a third dog could possibly be installed in a alternating style. I like alternating too take up any back play in the handle. Other than adding more teeth to the sleeve(which I believe the boss already exhausted that idea) I see no other way to do this. I know, I know...we already have two dogs in these. I think this would be a neat project. BTW I really like the dog you have sketched out. Simultaneous engagement with that setup would be rock solid.
If any AT members have spare old 113h dogs that they would be willing to part with it would be a great help with this project. I hate to keep cutting and grinding the SS dogs. For me they are just difficult to work with due to my limited amount of tooling here. Please PM me and I will get you my address.
Bob
Something like two 15-349 dogs (bottom left) might be easier. The dog on the top left is a 15-349L from my factory left hand 349.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/DSCN1314_zpsc2286561.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/DSCN1314_zpsc2286561.jpg.html)
Ya know Sal the more I think of it the more I like your sketched configuration. The teeth on the dogs could be cut anywhere. Simultaneous engagement, alternating or any amount depending on where they are spaced.hmmmmmmm :-\
The top ends of these dogs could be extended ,drilled and a small extension spring added to pull them together thus avoiding individual springs.
In simultaneous mode they will however still only be double dogs as the likelihood of simultaneous engagement in more than one place on each dog is highly unlikely unless very high manufacturing tolerances are maintained.
Personally I would stick with two plain dogs which should be more than adequate for this reel.
.
Tom, I agree. Especially if you look at the teeth spacing on the sleeve. They are not equally the same all the way around. Why do all this ::) BECAUSE WE CAN ;)
Bob
Tom, You're one of the most knowledgeable person I've talked to and I'm with you on this, two points of contact would be plenty, but lets try not to discourage Bob, unless you're trying to save him some money ;D.
Again, mine would be for gaining room so we won't need to grind the plate for the new stainless steel parts.
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/005_zpsf5e28b53.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/005_zpsf5e28b53.jpg.html)
With this, we will have the option to have the contact point opposite to one another. As for the spring, we have many options, one would be as you mentioned, the other would be having pins through the bridge plate with slots and have the spring on the opposite side..... just thinking .......
Just an idea, what if we were to have a way to reduce length of the jack plate spring as to alow us to sit is a third dog without loosing the integrity of the spring and still being able to switch in an out of gear. Then we could adjust the length of the dogs to allow for three seperate contacts reducing even more handle slop, or three simultanious lock downs.
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 12, 2014, 05:22:01 PM
Tom, You're one of the most knowledgeable person I've talked to and I'm with you on this, two points of contact would be plenty, but lets try not to discourage Bob, unless you're trying to save him some money ;D.
Again, mine would be for gaining room so we won't need to grind the plate for the new stainless steel parts.
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/005_zpsf5e28b53.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/005_zpsf5e28b53.jpg.html)
With this, we will have the option to have the contact point opposite to one another. As for the spring, we have many options, one would be as you mentioned, the other would be having pins through the bridge plate with slots and have the spring on the opposite side..... just thinking .......
The rotating force of the gear sleeve will tend to force the right dog away from the sleeve, the drawing below "cures" that potential problem. A 10 tooth gear sleeve would make it easier to do too.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Quaddog_zps33b1397d.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Quaddog_zps33b1397d.jpg.html)
Very impressive Lee. I like the idea of the 10 tooth sleeve also.
Bob, we're pulling away from your exploration, sorry buddy.
Lee, as I said earlier, I'm interested in gaining room, wouldn't this work? we could make a coil spring as the one on the ss spinners for each dog.
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/Quaddog_zps3e00fed4.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/Quaddog_zps3e00fed4.jpg.html)
Quote from: Keta on January 12, 2014, 07:38:33 PM
The rotating force of the gear sleeve will tend to force the right dog away from the sleeve, the drawing below "cures" that potential problem. A 10 tooth gear sleeve would make it easier to do too.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Quaddog_zps33b1397d.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Quaddog_zps33b1397d.jpg.html)
BullsEye! That's exactly what I had in mind Lee, I don't know if it'd be any more effective, but it would make probably make a pretty cool sound.
I love what you guys are doing here...I need that, one of each. This is field of dreams type stuff man; if you build they will come.
I feel some of the designs are great, do-able, even functionally plausible, if not ahead of their time at the moment.
Only thing I can say is water mark these drawings/pics and do some trademark/copyright process on them; I can see a reel manufacturer coming for some of these ideas. (Anything you want kept as your intellectual property should NEVER be referred to as an idea. "Ideas" are not, legally, intellectual property and could allow someone to use or sell your design.)
Sal, no worries. That's what this forum is all about. Floating ideas out there and getting feed back. I even like the negative feed back, just as long as everyone keeps thinking. I believe now that you have first hand exposure to what Alan C can bring to the table this will only spark your creativity. I think it's ALL good.
Bob
Quote from: sundaytrucka on January 12, 2014, 08:15:31 PM
I
Only thing I can say is water mark these drawings/pics and do some trademark/copyright process on them; I can see a reel manufacturer coming for some of these ideas.
As far as I'm concerned ANYTHING that I post can be used by ANYONE. I'm not that interested in profit, just "improvement".
Quote from: Keta on January 12, 2014, 08:20:32 PM
Quote from: sundaytrucka on January 12, 2014, 08:15:31 PM
I
Only thing I can say is water mark these drawings/pics and do some trademark/copyright process on them; I can see a reel manufacturer coming for some of these ideas.
As far as I'm concerned ANYTHING that I post can be used by ANYONE. I'm not that interested in profit, just "improvement".
X2 Lee.
Understood. I respect and admire your position for freedom of knowledge and self advancement.
Lee, you are as legit as they come.
Quote from: Keta on January 12, 2014, 08:20:32 PM
Quote from: sundaytrucka on January 12, 2014, 08:15:31 PM
Only thing I can say is water mark these drawings/pics and do some trademark/copyright process on them; I can see a reel manufacturer coming for some of these ideas.
As far as I'm concerned ANYTHING that I post can be used by ANYONE. I'm not that interested in profit, just "improvement".
Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 12, 2014, 09:08:10 PM
To the Batcave Lee!! :D
I'm heading there now but to do more boring work, a proto type banner holder to put banners on light poles. Hopefully I can sell 45 of them and fund my "reel work".
Some great ideas there guys,keep them coming.
Ok, here's what I've got...
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y502/MITSERVCS/null_zps09b824eb.jpg)
Spool clears no problem. Putting this back together may be a bit tricky :o I should have everything up and running in the next few days. I'll keep you posted.
Bob
BTW.. The sound of three dogs going alternately AWESOME!!
Bob: Looking good. I bet it sounds great. Good job. Dominick
Good Work Bob! I use pieces of duct tape to hold the screws in the plate while I screw the bridge down. I think some in in order here.
I just need to clean up the third dog a little. I would like a flatter contact with the sleeve. It still remains too be seen operation once this is all put back to working order. I'm really liking the three dogs using the coiled spring instead of the flat spring. This is going on my T4NK 113H. Now I'm just trying to decide on which drag system to go with. The Bryan 7+1 or the hex insert from Keta( thanks Lee I got those parts in today). These are all good choices. Thanks all for the inspiration.
Bob
Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 13, 2014, 09:10:58 PM
Good Work Bob! I use pieces of duct tape to hold the screws in the plate while I screw the bridge down. I think some in in order here.
Daron I'm using small pieces of gorilla tape. That stuff STICKS!! I hate when they back out at the wrong time.
Oh snap! Awesome!!!
Looks like it should work perfectly. If this is a practice run on an excess plate, I would try and take a little less plate off; other than that, it looks great! I think I will follow suit when I upgrade my second 113H.
Thanks for the trailblazing. Great idea!
Your right sundaytrucka. I was a little aggressive with the dremel. It's all a learning curve. I wasn't sure as to how to go about the spring. I settled with this setup. Next one will be tighter.
Bob, I'm not criticizing you, just an observation. On the double dogs, the bridge plate carries the stress load, on your third dog the edge of the plate does. It might be ok due to the other two dogs, but I'm not sure.
I guess you'll need to test it and see how it goes...good luck with it, I'm hoping it will work out for you.
Sal, I was thinking about that. Here's what I'm gonna do...I'm going to tap out the frame to a 6-32 thread and make the hole in the dog only slightly larger. The tighter tolerance I'm hoping will give less deflection. I'm pretty sure that shear strength won't be the issue. Like youve stated the weak link would be the side plate. Still pretty strong though,but strong enough? I dont know yet. What I'm going to need to do is some stress tests. And don't know but I think it should hold up. Let the testing begin ;D
That reel is going to sound like a "machine gun".
Very innovative Bob!
Bob,
You mentioned using the harness lugs from the Baja Special. I believe you stated that you had to do some grinding to clear the bridge plate or something. To install the lugs in the lugless mode, what did you have to grind and are the lugs still usable?
I beleive you also mentioned a different bearing cap, is this cap a direct replacement or does something else need to be done?
Thanx,
Leo
Leo, the harness lugs are no longer useable. They are basically plugs now. The reason I did this is due to if I just cut existing harness lugs they are plated brass and they would have a gold color if they were used I felt on a jigging reel I didn't need harness lugs. For my style of fishing(mostly tuna on a party boat) I've NEVER used a harness. That's why there is a rail. The new side plate is from the 113H2 model. These have a rubber "O" ring in them. I used this side plate because it looked kinda neat with the tuns engraving on it. Most of these mods like the screws, side plate, handle arm......are all cosmetic. I don't believe that they add any more function or durability to the reel. That is other than the basic "TANK" design that was already out there thanks to SAL. The triple dogs are a matter of preference. I don't like the back play in the handle with the single, double simultaneous or even for that matter the double alternating. Hope that helps.
Bob
Bob,
Did you use a different bearing cap, if so what type and did you need to modify anything?
Leo
what was the ending story of this triple dare?
It's still working! Just waitin for tuna jiggin season! ::) ;)
Ok folks...just to give a quick update on the three dogged nutz reel. I fished it HARD this past fall. Three trips to the canyon and about 8 hours total jigging between those trips. So an effort was made. This thing sounds awesome when reeling...although I couldn't get any tuna love on it. So under stress..I dunno. But what I will say is this...it preformed flawlessly. So I decided to take it apart and install one of Adams kits.this is what it looked like after about 1000 casts.
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y502/MITSERVCS/2015-12/4B5291AE-1FED-4899-AB07-09C7017CFBEC_zps1z7m2u40.jpg) (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/MITSERVCS/media/2015-12/4B5291AE-1FED-4899-AB07-09C7017CFBEC_zps1z7m2u40.jpg.html)
The black deposits are due to a CF washer under the gear..it was fairly beat up. When upgraded with the drag insert from Adam this reel will be stupid😜
Very nice, thanks for the report buddy. Toss that carbon fiber for under the gear and replace it with a delrin washer.
Yeah..you got that right..👍🏻
Adam's insert will definitely make it stupid sick Bob. ;D
The Delrin for the undergear is standard on all my reels now. They will outlast that cf many times.
Thanks for showing us the Mad Dog! once again.
Thanks for the update, crazy what can happen to the CF under gear washer...
I like the Delron undergear washers as a best option as well, but bear in mind the second gen. SS gear sleeves with the ultrathin hardened SS washer just above the gears, should certainly prevent the Dog(s)/ratchet from chewing up the CF washer.